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Maigrais

macrumors regular
Jan 25, 2012
166
256
iPad Pro is useful in specific things that aren’t as intuitive on a MacBook Pro or the phone. For me, it is note taking (I write songs) and blockbuster movie marathons (or TV show binging). I stand with you though. There is nothing that will make me upgrade a 12.9 inch iPad Pro M1. This product is iPad conclusion.
 

Boil

macrumors 68040
Oct 23, 2018
3,478
3,173
Stargate Command
A few things for me dual monitor support via Thunderbolt 4, Landscape camera and OLED screen on the 12.9".

Maybe M3 Pro on a 3nm process allows a SoC cool enough to place in the iPad Pro...?

Maybe said SoC is just cool enough for the 12.9" (or larger...?) iPad Pro, but not the smaller chassis of the 11" iPad Pro...?

But a M3 Pro SoC in an iPad Pro would allow for multiple external displays...!

As for a landscape camera, yes please; and I would suspect that would come along with a new Apple Pencil 3 designed to work with whatever the landscape camera does in regards to the Apple Pencil charging equipment under the edge of the tablet...?

OLED, also a yes please...

To close, another statement about how Blizzard needs to bring World of Warcraft to the iPad Pro, keyboard & mouse/trackpad required...
 

subjonas

macrumors 603
Feb 10, 2014
6,253
6,736
I don’t mind if apple continues to iterate on iPadOS … as long as they keep the core simplicity and responsiveness of it intact. For my normal on the go use … browsing in one window, taking notes in another or watching YouTube … maybe a video conference … I can actually do that all on iPadOS and I prefer that most of the time.

But I still need macOS because doing any sort of programming requires access to install libraries, run shell scripts and command line tools, and run macOS specific programs, etc. Asking these app makers to create iPad versions is a fool’s errand. They are designed to run specifically with a mouse and keyboard and with macOS like behaviors and system access. I don’t need a boil the ocean approach to try and recreate everything that’s been done on macOS on iPadOS. I don’t need “touch target sized” macOS because I’ll never use these tools without a mouse and keyboard. I JUST NEED MACOS!
I agree. As I mentioned several posts back, I don’t believe touch is the ideal UI for most Mac (productivity) tasks for most people (I’m even a Cintiq/stylus Mac user and I still don’t want touch on macOS) and I don’t believe there’s a way to satisfy everyone with one do-all OS. I’m not against the idea of such an OS existing alongside the other OSes of course, and of course I’m sure it would be ideal for some people, but my guess is the size of that market versus the effort it would take to make and maintain that hardware and software ecosystem wouldn’t balance out.
 

Tagbert

macrumors 603
Jun 22, 2011
6,258
7,282
Seattle
I don't think Mac OS as it it should be on the iPad because it isn't designed to work with touch devices, but to have a Mac like OS. A more robust iPad OS instead of basically a blown-up version of iOS with extra features.
While it might only be a power user option, Mac OS could work on an iPad touch and all. Some elements are already touch sized. Anyone using an iPad Pro with Mac OS would probably also be using it with a keyboard and pointing device. I use a keyboard, mouse, pencil and touch in various combinations on and iPad now depending on what I’m doing and what feels right for any given action. You wouldn’t need to inflate all of the touch targets to get it working.
 

cthompson94

macrumors 6502a
Jan 10, 2022
812
1,164
SoCal
While it might only be a power user option, Mac OS could work on an iPad touch and all. Some elements are already touch sized. Anyone using an iPad Pro with Mac OS would probably also be using it with a keyboard and pointing device. I use a keyboard, mouse, pencil and touch in various combinations on and iPad now depending on what I’m doing and what feels right for any given action. You wouldn’t need to inflate all of the touch targets to get it working.
While I understand what you are saying and I agree with people such as yourself that it will work well as you have already gave examples how it would work for you, but as far as basically redesigning an OS (because it wouldn't be as easy as just slapping Mac OS on the iPad) the folks who will be able to really take advantage of this like you said are the power users and that is pretty niche in the iPad world, maybe not so much in this forums, but this forums is already a niche of Apple device users.

I would also love to see the iPad power user options open up with like a Mac OS, there are many times I wish I could just basically do what a surface can but on my iPad.
 
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Sheepish-Lord

macrumors 68030
Oct 13, 2021
2,529
5,148
iPads were great, even for non-artists, when they had great battery life, quiet and were lightweight. So much so I stopped using MB’s (Intel at the time) for anything other than specific workflows.

When Apple decided to put an M chip in their laptops in was game over for someone like myself who had plenty of time by then to see where iPadOS was going. Expensive accessories, hardware stuck in a repetitive design, and software constantly being in beta. For non-artists why buy and iPad when my M2 MBA:

- 15hrs+ battery life
- Better keyboard/trackpad
- Lighter/thinner than config iPad
- Price

Additionally, I would rather consume media on my MBA and I’m also OCD about finger prints ha. Even laying in bed I would use my phone or MBA for extended viewing than a unwieldy iPad 12.9” with terrible angle adjustments. I’ve tried for years folks and even for a “normy” like me iPads are just a poor choice unless you have a specific use case. Come find me when an iPad gets 20hrs of battery life and OLED similar to iPhones. These dog **** miniLED displays with terrible response time’s literally ruin ProMotion.
 

James Godfrey

macrumors 68020
Oct 13, 2011
2,068
1,710
I think what the iPad needed was MacOS or at least a dual boot option… even if it was iPadOS/MacOS Light (where you can only download apps from the Mac App Store amongst other restrictions) and restricted to iPads with M series chips, when attached to Magic Keyboard.

That way the iPad would have actually had more purpose in the market, now I say all this in past tense, as the market that apple could have penetrated has since gone all out on the Mac with Apple silicon, so I feel like if apple done this right now I don’t think it would be worth their while as the Mac has absorbed the bulk of that market now, they have pretty much missed the boat with it.

I think going forward Apple are likely going to trim the bloat from their iPad line up and probably cut the pro 11” out of the equation as they have realised that vast majority are using the iPad as a content consumption device rather than a daily work horse and are unwilling to spend in excess of $6-700 on one, and the proof is in the figures, iPad is the worst performing line down year on year, and for those that want to use it as their main laptop will have the one size pro option available whether this is a 12.9” still or whether it is going to be increased in size is yet to be seen.
 

James Godfrey

macrumors 68020
Oct 13, 2011
2,068
1,710
iPadOS is the biggest problem. I'm telling you right now, the big iPadOS feature next year will be that you can use lock screen widgets.
Naaaah no way, you are way off… the key feature is quite clearly going to be a calculator app.
 
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James Godfrey

macrumors 68020
Oct 13, 2011
2,068
1,710
iPads were great, even for non-artists, when they had great battery life, quiet and were lightweight. So much so I stopped using MB’s (Intel at the time) for anything other than specific workflows.

When Apple decided to put an M chip in their laptops in was game over for someone like myself who had plenty of time by then to see where iPadOS was going. Expensive accessories, hardware stuck in a repetitive design, and software constantly being in beta. For non-artists why buy and iPad when my M2 MBA:

- 15hrs+ battery life
- Better keyboard/trackpad
- Lighter/thinner than config iPad
- Price

Additionally, I would rather consume media on my MBA and I’m also OCD about finger prints ha. Even laying in bed I would use my phone or MBA for extended viewing than an unwieldy iPad 12.9” with terrible angle adjustments. I’ve tried for years folks and even for a “normy” like me iPads are just a poor choice unless you have a specific use case. Come find me when an iPad gets 20hrs of battery life and OLED similar to iPhones. These dog **** miniLED displays with terrible response time’s literally ruin ProMotion.
Yeah I 100% agree with you even the cheapest possible laptop replacement 10th gen iPad with its poor display, no Apple Pencil 2 support and USB-C port which is slow AF coupled with the Magic Keyboard folio is currently £778 here in the UK for a meagre 64gb storage… where you can now get the M1 MBA for about £100 more if that, it’s just makes no sense to go down the iPad route.

The only iPad that has a decent use case and large demographic of potential users is the iPad mini as a complimentary device for the Mac at this stage.
 
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maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,682
43,740
iPadOS is the biggest problem. I'm telling you right now, the big iPadOS feature next year will be that you can use lock screen widgets.
The question is, what is Apple's vision of the iPad and how does the overlapping products acheive that vision?

I think overall, having the iPad a consumption device has served both Apple and its customers so well. No other company has been able to provide a tablet as successful as Apple.

Trying to position the iPad as an alternative to a laptop is where things have not gone according to plan imo. They've been trying for years, so its not like the OS is immature, or just lacks features - they've been attempting this for a long time. For some people it certainly can be a laptop replacement but its pretty clear that for a given market segment - its not successful.
 
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James Godfrey

macrumors 68020
Oct 13, 2011
2,068
1,710
The question is, what is Apple's vision of the iPad and how does the overlapping products acheive that vision?

I think overall, having the iPad a consumption device has served both Apple and its customers so well. No other company has been able to provide a tablet as successful as Apple.

Trying to position the iPad as an alternative to a laptop is where things have not gone according to plan imo. They've been trying for years, so its not like the OS is immature, or just lacks features - they've been attempting this for a long time. For some people it certainly can be a laptop replacement but its pretty clear that for a given market segment - its not successful.
Yeah if apple really want this to be a laptop replacement it needs either a dual boot option or possible the OS built from the ground up so it has its own unique OS, but the big question is… does apple feel their efforts will be rewarded with more $$$… I very much doubt it.
 

Unregistered 4U

macrumors G4
Jul 22, 2002
10,610
8,628
For some people it certainly can be a laptop replacement but its pretty clear that for a given market segment - its not successful.
Apple sells more iPads in a given year than ALL Macs combined.
Apple sells more iPads in a given year than individual PC vendors sell laptops in that year.
There’s not a PC vendor out there that wouldn’t want this level of “not success”. :)

In recent years, sales of iPads have been lower, but that’s due to the inability to make enough, not because of a lack of demand.
 
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Sheepish-Lord

macrumors 68030
Oct 13, 2021
2,529
5,148
Apple sells more iPads in a given year than ALL Macs combined.
Apple sells more iPads in a given year than individual PC vendors sell laptops in that year.
There’s not a PC vendor out there that wouldn’t want this level of “not success”. :)

In recent years, sales of iPads have been lower, but that’s due to the inability to make enough, not because of a lack of demand.
Do you enjoy making stuff up?
 

rui no onna

Contributor
Oct 25, 2013
14,916
13,261

iPad MSRP range: $329 - $2499

Mac MSRP range: $999 - 10,000+

Apple gets higher revenue from Macs but that doesn’t mean unit sales are higher. Iirc, when revenue from Mac and iPad are equal, unit sales are around 1 Mac : 2 iPad.

I do believe iPad demand is softer now, not due to supply constraints, but mostly because there’s no reason to upgrade frequently. Even 5 year old iPads are perfectly usable for the tasks most people use them for.

Macs are seeing a boost from the ARM transition but that will probably settle eventually, too (maybe in 3-5 years).
 

Unregistered 4U

macrumors G4
Jul 22, 2002
10,610
8,628
Ah, people always make this mistake. :) “Revenue” does not equate to “Unit Sales”. Unit sales are “how many individuals are purchasing devices”, Revenue is “how much money, in total, is made from SELLING the devices.”

Let’s take 2020, for example. How many Macs were sold? That was a pretty big year for PC’s in general, so it’s not surprising that analysts indicate that Apple sold a VERY impressive 22.6 million units!

In comparison, the iPad sold 45.5 million units in 2020.

Even more interesting is when you look into the revenue numbers for 2020. The Mac was $28.6 million, the iPad was 23.7 million.
So, while generating revenue of 5 million less than the Mac, they sold over TWICE as many iPads. With the most recent numbers, they’re likely still outselling Macs, only not by twice as much anymore.
 
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Unregistered 4U

macrumors G4
Jul 22, 2002
10,610
8,628
I do believe iPad demand is softer now, not due to supply constraints, but mostly because there’s no reason to upgrade frequently. Even 5 year old iPads are perfectly usable for the tasks most people use them for.
Yes, but there are billions of people that don’t have 5 year old iPads. Or even 1 year old iPads. There’s an enormous market of folks that have never owned an iPad, that want an iPad, but at this time, Apple’s unable to make enough of them.

I think it’s a mistake to think that the only folks interested in buying an iPad are the few hundred million that already own an iPad.
 

James Godfrey

macrumors 68020
Oct 13, 2011
2,068
1,710
Yes, but there are billions of people that don’t have 5 year old iPads. Or even 1 year old iPads. There’s an enormous market of folks that have never owned an iPad, that want an iPad, but at this time, Apple’s unable to make enough of them.

I think it’s a mistake to think that the only folks interested in buying an iPad are the few hundred million that already own an iPad.
Well here in the UK at least all models of iPad are available for delivery either next day or within a week… so the stock levels are quite clearly far greater than the demand for them, and yes that includes the brand new iPad 10 and the Pro M2’s….
 

Unregistered 4U

macrumors G4
Jul 22, 2002
10,610
8,628
Well here in the UK at least all models of iPad are available for delivery either next day or within a week… so the stock levels are quite clearly far greater than the demand for them, and yes that includes the brand new iPad 10 and the Pro M2’s….
As would be expected for the end of year sales. “Within a week” indicates “we don’t have enough to meet demand right now, but more are coming off the assembly line and they’re going directly into buyers’ hands”, which is a good position to be in.

I’m interested to see how the delivery times will compare be end of December. If what Apple’s saying is true and they’re constrained, I’d expect to see shipping delays increase. But, we’ll see.
 

James Godfrey

macrumors 68020
Oct 13, 2011
2,068
1,710
As would be expected for the end of year sales. “Within a week” indicates “we don’t have enough to meet demand right now, but more are coming off the assembly line and they’re going directly into buyers’ hands”, which is a good position to be in.

I’m interested to see how the delivery times will compare be end of December. If what Apple’s saying is true and they’re constrained, I’d expect to see shipping delays increase. But, we’ll see.
But when I say within a week I mean the odd ones spec’d up ones are due to be delivered on 15th November, 95% of all iPads though are next day delivery here.

Just quickly checked now and all colours, capacities and connectivity options of both the iPad 10 and the iPad Pro 11”/12.9” can be delivered to me tomorrow between 1pm and 3pm on Apples website. So there is definitely plenty of supply in Apples hands.
 

Digitalguy

macrumors 601
Apr 15, 2019
4,643
4,469
Yes, but there are billions of people that don’t have 5 year old iPads. Or even 1 year old iPads. There’s an enormous market of folks that have never owned an iPad, that want an iPad, but at this time, Apple’s unable to make enough of them.

I think it’s a mistake to think that the only folks interested in buying an iPad are the few hundred million that already own an iPad.
Of those billions, most of those who will buy a tablet will buy an Android tablet, because it's cheaper... not because Apple cannot make enough iPads
 

Digitalguy

macrumors 601
Apr 15, 2019
4,643
4,469
Apple sells more iPads in a given year than ALL Macs combined.
Apple sells more iPads in a given year than individual PC vendors sell laptops in that year.
There’s not a PC vendor out there that wouldn’t want this level of “not success”. :)

In recent years, sales of iPads have been lower, but that’s due to the inability to make enough, not because of a lack of demand.
The fact that more iPads are sold than Macs does not mean they are more successful, but it's due to them being cheaper (most iPads sold are entry level base models).
One could argue that Android tablets are more successful than iPads because they sell more, but the truth is that they sell more because they are, again, cheaper than iPads...
 

Unregistered 4U

macrumors G4
Jul 22, 2002
10,610
8,628
But when I say within a week I mean the odd ones spec’d up ones are due to be delivered on 15th November, 95% of all iPads though are next day delivery here.

Just quickly checked now and all colours, capacities and connectivity options of both the iPad 10 and the iPad Pro 11”/12.9” can be delivered to me tomorrow between 1pm and 3pm on Apples website. So there is definitely plenty of supply in Apples hands.
Right. I’d expect them to be available. Companies plan and prepare all year to have stock for the November/December period. As we get closer to the end of December, it should be clear if the “constrained by manufacturing” story they provided in their quarterly report aligns with reality :)
 

Unregistered 4U

macrumors G4
Jul 22, 2002
10,610
8,628
Of those billions, most of those who will buy a tablet will buy an Android tablet, because it's cheaper... not because Apple cannot make enough iPads
Yes, they will. And, with over 6 billion folks in the world, there’s plenty of folks for Android to sell, say, 4 billion, and Apple to still sell around 40-50 million iPads.
 
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