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Yes. I know I'm overreacting, but these demo units are worthless. They should keep them in the box until they have the correct software in them or people who kick the tires will walk away thinking they weren't worth the hype.

If nothing else, every one of those handicapped demo computers would've been put to better use by shipping them to people like us who ordered one.

Once they catch up on the backorders... then ship them to the stores, except this time with updated software.
 
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If nothing else, every one of those handicapped demo computers would've been put to better use by shipping them to people like us who ordered one.

Once they catch up on the backorders... then ship them to the stores, except this time with updated software.

Couldnt agree more!
 
I played with a demo unit for the first time yesterday. First of all, it's definitely heavier than it looks, it could probably hurt somebody if you threw it at their head.

Anyway, the only test I did was a very unscientific test in Logic X, which was to see how long it took to bounce the main output track in the demo song (Foster the People).

The base quad core did it in about 15 seconds, whereas my 2011 Mini Server takes about 30 (to SSD). Mind you this wasn't timed with a stopwatch, just me counting in my head. The MP was definitely a lot faster but for some reason I was thinking the bounce would only take 5-10 seconds.

Logic is strictly CPU-bound as far as I know, until some OpenCL plugins hit the market.
 
Yes. I know I'm overreacting, but these demo units are worthless. They should keep them in the box until they have the correct software in them

You are wickedly over-reacting. As someone explained earlier, there's a frozen image they push out to ALL of the machines in the store, and that image hasn't been updated with the new version of FCPX yet.

Wait. For. It.

Nothing that transpires in an Apple store is going to make or break a Mac Pro sale in reality. You're assigning way more importance to your "misadventure" than is necessary.

Wait. For. It.
 
You are wickedly over-reacting. As someone explained earlier, there's a frozen image they push out to ALL of the machines in the store, and that image hasn't been updated with the new version of FCPX yet.

Wait. For. It.

Nothing that transpires in an Apple store is going to make or break a Mac Pro sale in reality. You're assigning way more importance to your "misadventure" than is necessary.

Wait. For. It.

I'm just hoping to see a real world benchmark that I can say is definitely faster than my 2011 MacBook Pro. Thus far, a benchmark that is literally 20 times slower is disturbing (3:15 on my MacBook Pro - 60:00 on the Mac Pro). It makes me wonder how many other programs will slug along until the publishers optimize them.

I'm aware of the frozen images they use to push updates, but that's even more disturbing. Whomever creates those master images just needs to click update, then that image will go to all the stores within 24 hours.

It's hard to believe they using an image from the old Mac Pro in the first place. If the image was created using a new Mac Pro with a fresh OS, it would've had the versions that existed on the day it shipped. Since Apple made it a point to release GPU enabled versions a few weeks before shipping, those demo units wouldn't be so slow.

For what it's worth, I haven't cancelled my order, but I've been tempted. I will feel a lot better if I saw real world benchmarks that prove the Mac Pro is at least as good as today's iMacs when it comes to video.

So far, my benchmark shows it's 20 times slower, and even Larry Jordan, one of the most respected FCPX bloggers discovered that his 12 core D700 (sent to him by Apple to review it) was outpaced by the iMac in at least 9 common benchmarks.

http://www.larryjordan.biz/mac-pro-video-compression

That's using a 12 core Mac Pro vs a 4 core iMac. It's scary.

The funny thing, if the Mac Pro is no longer targeted for video editing, and these GPUs are more for CAD / scientific users, and they don't improve video editing, then the next gen iMac may the better option (assuming it gets a Thunderbolt 2 port and even modest GPU upgrades).
 
Ihttp://www.larryjordan.biz/mac-pro-video-compression

That's using a 12 core Mac Pro vs a 4 core iMac. It's scary.

Did you read and grok the blog article, or just scan for results? Do you understand that he threw tests at the Mac Pro that he knew wouldn't take advantage of the GPUs?

From his article (all rights reserved for Larry, etc, etc)
One of the speed advantages of the iMac is that it uses an Intel technology called “QuickSync.” This is a special processor “engine” inside many consumer-grade Intel CPUs that accelerates H.264 compression for certain encoding settings; for example, when compressing for Apple devices, QuickTime or MPEG-4 movies using the H.264 codec. The Mac Pro Xeon CPU is considered “workstation-grade,” and doesn’t provide this hardware acceleration. This explains why the iMac is faster when encoding in single-pass mode, which enables hardware acceleration, but slower in multi-pass mode, which disables hardware acceleration.

Compressing video is not something that OpenCL (or CUDA) is well-suited for. Regardless of the application. Which means it's not something that can be thrown at the GPU. It's entirely CPU based, and in the case of the iMac: it has a faster and more capable CPU for that task at hand.

One thing I really wish Apple would publish is just what FCPX and Compressor can use OpenCL for. Adobe makes it very clear what Premiere and AME can do with CUDA and/or OpenCL. In fact, they list everything right out. Apple just says, "It'll be faster..." That is what causes confusion like this.
 
Did you read and grok the blog article, or just scan for results? Do you understand that he threw tests at the Mac Pro that he knew wouldn't take advantage of the GPUs?

From his article (all rights reserved for Larry, etc, etc)


Compressing video is not something that OpenCL (or CUDA) is well-suited for. Regardless of the application. Which means it's not something that can be thrown at the GPU. It's entirely CPU based, and in the case of the iMac: it has a faster and more capable CPU for that task at hand.

One thing I really wish Apple would publish is just what FCPX and Compressor can use OpenCL for. Adobe makes it very clear what Premiere and AME can do with CUDA and/or OpenCL. In fact, they list everything right out. Apple just says, "It'll be faster..." That is what causes confusion like this.

I read every word and that's what scares me. My main objective is to speed up the time it takes to make videos. This involves editing, rendering then compressing to the final destination, which is normally using H.264 in a QuickTime file, using Compressor, normally with a preset.

As such, under those conditions, it would seem that the main advantage of the Mac Pro is not speed, but expansion capabilities, because of Thunderbolt 2.

As you said, video compression is largely CPU based, so the 4 core in the store choked because of a lack of QuickSync. The only reason Larry's Mac Pro even came close to the iMac was because he used a 12 core. The trouble is, I'm getting a 6 core, so there's a big leap of faith that speed gains on non compression tasks and expansion will eventually justify the Mac Pro over the iMac.

Still, what I truly want is to either experience some sort of speed bump... even 20% better than my MacBook 2011, or hear from somebody who actually edits video that can testify to the fact that the Mac Pro is clearly faster doing the kinds of everyday things I do... edit, render, then compress to a final product.

Without posting video to use as a baseline, my test is similar to the BruceX concept, using built-in generator clips and filters. I drag "Pages" from the generator onto the timeline, change the duration to 8 minutes, then drag the "Clouds" titles to the start and extend it to 8 minutes, then apply the "Romantic" effect to the "Pages" clip. I time the renders, then compress with Compressor with a preset Apple Devices HD (better quality).

The MacBook 2011 does the final step in about 3:15, but as I said, the new Mac Pro took nearly 60 minutes. If anyone wants to give that test a shot, it will at least tell us that the GPU has some benefit.
 
This involves editing, rendering then compressing to the final destination, which is normally using H.264 in a QuickTime file, using Compressor, normally with a preset.

The vast majority of the time spent in your video production is going to be the compressing stage. And with that, the Mac Pro can't help you any more than an iMac can. You need a different CPU family than is what available with the Pro. There's nothing Apple can do to "fix" that, unfortunately.
 
I'm starting to realize that. It makes you wonder why Apple has made video production such a big part of their marketing.

If Intel could boost compression in a $100 chip, you would think there would be a market for adding hardware compression to high end video cards.

Dual D700s are over $6000 worth of super graphics horsepower, but they can't compress video. It seems the only advantage is 4K, most likely because QuickSync doesn't scale that big, so the only video production that is faster on the Mac Pro would be 4K. For the rest of us, the iMac is compelling.

The only problem for me with switching to the iMac is the lack of Thunderbolt 2. Now that I think of it, the Late 2013 MacBook with Retina display has Thunderbolt 2, PCI-e storage and can connect to 4K... That is starting to look like a decent alternative for video production, until the next iMac refresh.
 
I will feel a lot better if I saw real world benchmarks that prove the Mac Pro is at least as good as today's iMacs when it comes to video.


At least as good? In my mind, for the price difference of the hex-core/D700 over an iMac, it needs to be considerably faster. For double the price, it should smoke the iMac at rendering and exporting. Unless you are using FCPX, the nMP simply isn't the editing machine we want it to be .... At least right now.
 
At least as good? In my mind, for the price difference of the hex-core/D700 over an iMac, it needs to be considerably faster. For double the price, it should smoke the iMac at rendering and exporting. Unless you are using FCPX, the nMP simply isn't the editing machine we want it to be .... At least right now.

I agree.

I do use FCPX, Motion and Compressor and it seems that in spite of the hype, there's no particular benefit to using the Mac Pro instead of the iMac or MacBook Pro Retina, with the possible exception of the 4K editing and rendering.

From what I see, regardless of the situation with the demo units being 20 times slower using the older programs, the best one can potentially expect is a tie, except for in price.

I still haven't cancelled my order. I guess it's the lure of the shiny new look and the commitment to external expansion. Meanwhile that was the first thing people were critical of. That's genius. Here I am thinking I'm buying something to improve my video production capabilities and I'm actually buying a cool looking trophy.
 
I'm sure that down the line, more programs will be optimized for dual GPU, but who knows when that will be. That could be two years. In two years, the MP or iMac will probably have more upgrades.

Believe me, I am still wanting a new Mac Pro, but the benchmarks and test I've seen sure keep me second guessing myself. Until the shipping times are close to 2 weeks, I'm gonna wait anyway. I can learn quite a bit in a 6-8 week time frame.
 
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