You could have stopped at never understood. Good luck working as a non union member without joining a union, unless you are in right to work state.
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Apple Store Employees in New Jersey File to Unionize
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I think you have the argument backwards. I would venture to say that most anti-union people aren't advocating for them to be abolished, they just don't find them useful and don't want to join or be forced to join.
People that are pro-union want to FORCE others to join in order to accept new or continued employment. That is the whole purpose of Right To Work, to allow the individual a choice in the matter.
I have no issue with people having the choice to unionize or to join a union, I think that joining is foolish, but others can make that choice for themselves. Just don't think you can or should be able to force me to comply with your choices.
Take the case of this Apple store, New Jersey is not a Right to Work state, so if 51% vote to unionize then all of the employees are FORCED to join and pay dues, even the 49% who voted against unionizing, that is wrong. No one should be forced to quit because of the choice of others.
Unions, and some members here, don't want you to have choice because you are an uninformed idiot who doesn't know any better.
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The real tragedy is federal law prohibits forcing someone to join a union, but in practice law is ignored unless you are in Right to work state.
Interesting read:
National Right to Work Foundation Highlights Michigan Workers’ Legal Options as Right to Work Repeal Looms
LANSING, MI - The National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation has issued special legal notices to public and private sector workers in Michigan, which explains what rights workers still have to resist union boss demands as the repeal of the state’s Right to Work law takes effect.
www.nrtw.org
Sounds like the people of Michigan got raped by politicians and unions:
Not surprising, more than 70% of auto manufacturing in the US happens in right to work states. Michigan is small shell of its glorious past. And most of EV manufacturing is in right to work states.Interesting read:
National Right to Work Foundation Highlights Michigan Workers’ Legal Options as Right to Work Repeal Looms
LANSING, MI - The National Right to Work Legal Defense Foundation has issued special legal notices to public and private sector workers in Michigan, which explains what rights workers still have to resist union boss demands as the repeal of the state’s Right to Work law takes effect.www.nrtw.org
Sounds like the people of Michigan got raped by politicians and unions:
While unionization plays a part, it's a bit more complicated. Cheap land, closeness to ports and governments playing ball withe companies to get plants are also factors. Even so, unionization of those plants is not off the table:
On January 29, the United Auto Workers (UAW) announced that more than 10,000 workers across 13 non-union automakers have signed union cards since last November, when the union announced an ambitious goal to organize 150,000 autoworkers.
A majority of those who have signed up are located in the South. At Hyundai and Mercedes in Alabama, workers recently crossed the threshold of having 30 percent of their co-workers sign union authorization cards, joining workers at Volkswagen’s assembly plant in Chattanooga, Tennessee, who reached that milestone last December.
Pro and anti union aside, if you believe in free markets then labor should have the right to combine their talents and sell them to a company, just as any supplier of materials or labor that goes into a product does.
Why are you generalizing? If you were exploited for twenty years, how is that Apple’s fault? Did you ever bother to try to work there?
I myself worked minimum wage retail way prior to Apple and it was horrible. All the blame goes to that company, not Apple. I don’t understand the mental gymnastics here to even make that connection.
I already explained what will happen when a union gets involved in this case and you still advocate to deprive other potential workers from getting a well-taken-care-of job. I would have killed to get such a job during my minimum wage days.
If there are workers that don’t like it at Apple, they can go find another job. Seriously, how entitled are these people? With all Apple offers for those jobs, it’s a privilege to work there, not a god-given right. Have some humility.
Everyone hates rich people and call them greedy and selfish , etc. , but want to be rich themselves.
Go figure.
Go figure.
Sad, you have no option unless you are in right to work state.
I live in right to work state with unionized work force, but no one is forced to pay dues or join union. Right to work doesn’t mean you can’t have unions, just more protection for those who don’t wnat to be part of union or pay dues.
Right, but it’s not just the pay that’s already good at Apple, they also get very generous benefits, including insurance and the like. And this is the US, if there are instances of misconduct from Apple (like the controversial bag-search off the clock policy), employees can file a class action lawsuit (which they did) to get relief. No union needed in this case.
How can you say that?!!!! My parents told me all I had to do was ekk my way through high school and sucess was nearly a certainty /s
Usually in these convos people invoke golf courses to evoke idea of union execs living high on the hog. That was clearly the intent of the person I was responding to
Cool, separate the stores prices based on this nonsense and see where the chips fall. See how fast it fails.
Class action lawsuits are only relevant for widespread issues. They do not occur in individual cases. What happens when someone has an individual issue of bullying, or simply just protecting themselves for either accusations from management or other colleagues?
Unions can offer both union representation in cases, or if needed legal help.
Also just because right now Apple maybe one of the better companies in retail to work for, it doesn’t mean it will always be the case. What happens when Cook leaves in the next 5-10 years? We already twist on in MacRumours about Apple culture being different since Jobs was here. What happens when another numbers guy comes in and decides Apple employees are not longer getting those benefits, no longer getting a better rate of pay?
Also in addition to this, having Apple unionised also helps the unions with other companies. They can go to other companies and say Apple is doing this and that, it is possible for your employees to get this or that, so you know, book your ideas up, and uplift everyone in the industry.
It baffles me as to how people the world over are happy for fellow workers to be **** all over and simply say ‘Well go somewhere else’ instead of actually trying to prevent being **** all over, arguing for better working and pay conditions.
Off base in terms of how much affect unions have on CEO pay. I understand the premise of what you’re saying as a matter of principle. For sure I get it. What I’m saying is if folks on here think unionizing will someone give employees some say on how much the CEO makes. Or how much stock he’s able to sell and when. They’re mistaken. They don’t have that power. Collective bargaining isn’t the same as a seat on the board
Individual lawsuits and workplace harassment cases are very common, more than class action lawsuits at larger scale.
I have been in a few workplaces where I felt a union might have helped, but the thought of arguing that a workplace that treats their employees well needs a union just in case it ever doesn't treat its employees well in the future, well that just seems strange. That is like arguing a company with a good union workforce should get rid of the union in case the union leaders ever become corrupt.
Everybody seems to be arguing hypothetical problems these days, even though we have a lot of already existing problems that would make more sense to be focused on, and setting up a union at an already good workplace and then trying to use that to advertise that the union is responsible for that already good workplace seems like misrepresentation. Now, if you set up a union at a lousy workplace and improve the working conditions, that is worth bragging about. That is actually uplifting everyone in the industry.
Are you a boss of a company or been a boss because for some reason you have taken this debate out of context and twisted it which is something a company boss or ex company boss would do. What I have been posting has absolutely nothing to do about unions being able to affect the pay of CEO's. What I have been talking about is how a CEO pay correlates to how unhappy low paid employee's feel about their job when they are basically told they are to live and breath the company they work for and nothing else all because the CEO's feel frustrated that they have to pay people to work for them in the first place and yes in my opinion many CEO's do feel that way.
Therefore please stop trying to twist around what I am saying trying to make it about unions trying to change the wages of CEO's when it is nothing of the sort.
Of course you minimize the employee’s freedom of choice to find employment. Many support majority rule until it’s an issue they disagree with. Then the victim card is held high with usual your all idiots if you disagree.
You realize this “free” apple service is costing apple and creating jobs. If those who work there don’t like the job they can find a new one. A union will not make someone like their job better.
Some of the comments here are going to be nuts, I can tell already.
Apple employees at the Apple Store in Short Hills, New Jersey have petitioned to unionize, reports Bloomberg. Retail store unionization efforts have died down in recent months after locations in Oklahoma and Maryland successfully unionized in 2022.
There are 104 workers at Apple Short Hills, which is located in the Short Hills Mall. Communication Workers of America (CWA) filed a unionization petition with the National Labor Relations Board on behalf of employees earlier this week.
In a statement, the CWA said that forming a union would be the best way to "ensure all Apple workers receive the respect, pay, benefits and working conditions" that they deserve. The group has requested that Apple "not to interfere in our ongoing organizing efforts and, instead, allow workers to freely determine for themselves whether to form a union."
Apple told Bloomberg that it offers "exceptional" benefits and competitive pay to its employees.
Following the petition, workers at the store will need to vote on whether to join the union. If a majority decide to do so, the store will unionize. Union employees are able to negotiate with Apple for improved working conditions and benefits. In Maryland, workers have been working to negotiate with Apple for a 10 percent pay increase, tips from customers, and changes to overtime and leave policies.
While two stores have unionized, unionization efforts have failed in other locations. An Apple retail location in St. Louis voted not to unionize, and a store in Atlanta withdrew its request to unionize after alleged interference from Apple. The U.S. National Labor Relations Board said in December 2022 that Apple had violated federal law by holding mandatory anti-union meetings and coercing and interrogating the Atlanta workers.
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Article Link: Apple Store Employees in New Jersey File to Unionize