Apple store employees: no commission, but what about add-on sales?

[celebrian23]

What you do is, walk in go up to the sales person, sound as if you know TONS about Apple say

"I would like a 1.66Ghz Core Duo Intel Mac Mini with 1Gb of RAM with 20'' Apple Cinema Display" and they will go and get it for you. They might ask a little about AppleCare or .Mac but if you know what you talking about(or sound like it)i think they pressure you less as you seem to know what you want.

(the 1.66Ghz Core Duo intel Mac Mini with 1Gb of RAM is just an example but the point of that was say some specs with details it a "strong" voice.)

So you'd say "MacBook Pro 15'' 2.0Ghz Intel Core Duo 1Gb of RAM"(in a strong demanding , but not mean voice,) NOT "MacBook Pro 2.0Ghz 1Gb memory" (in a weak *I have no idea what i want* kind of voice)


Apple 101 buying basics

I tried. It didn't work. Darn you apple employees!

 

[chairguru22]

hahaha. i got the same schpeel when i went in to get my macbook. i told him i wanted to buy a 2.0GHz white macbook and he started telling me about all this add-on stuff. i told him i already came here several times before and the macbooks were sold out so i knew what i want.

he then went into a conversation with me on what i was using it for, where i went to school, etc... then he went to the back and got my macbook and put it at the front counter and came back to me to talk some more.

5 minutes for all of this and he then tells me "you're macbook is at the front whenever you're ready."

 

[chairguru22]

Flourescent lighting -- too bright and chases people away. It was like trying to do work in a display cabinet -- the whole place was white. No place to sit down inconspicuously.

You feel like YOU are on display. Very discomforting. (But I guess in this day and age, an actual old time retail customer is a cultural artifact that needs to be on display like a piece of art!)

I love macs but people want comfort and value for their money. Apple, like every other retailer in the world, needs to be ahead of the curve. With google at our fingertips, who the hell would not do a bit of homework on .mac and other Apple add ons before they went to the retail store? Not me. Not anyone I know. Consumers are smart. Apple needs to be smarter.

i agree that the store feels awkward to be in. its like the apple people are a clique and you don't feel like you're one of them when you walk in. a bad feeling for a customer to not feel at home.

but i totaly disagree with you that consumers are smart. some are apple users already and know what they're talking about and others do research before going to a store. i went dropped in a couple times at the store in the mall to look around and each time i heard a parent with their kid asking questions that you or i would know. my parents don't know the difference b/t a mouse and a trackpad.

the employees should assume that you dont know anything and its their job to figure out how much you do know and that's by asking a lot of questinos (that you may or may not already know). this isnt exactly selling clothes where if you dont get the exact right fit you can exchange it easily. a computer (or car, or house) you need to get right first so a little picking at your brain is excusable considering it could save you a lot of time and hassle.

 

[slipper]

While I can't speak for Apple Store employees, I know that when I was working at CompUSA in high school, we got $100 for every extended warranty we sold but nothing for selling the actual computer. The idea was, people came to the store with the intention of buying the computer so selling one wasn't an accomplishment.

So THAT'S why some of the salesmen come off as sleezy scumbags. No wonder I never shop at CompUSA...

what's wrong with commission based jobs? if you were a doctor and suggested a better nutritional plan and sold the person a bottle of multi vitamins would you the doctor be considered a sleezy scumbag?

 

[ikonq]

I notice they really like to push .mac, its almost all profit. Probably most people who buy it never use it.

There is close to 0 profit on it at resellers, but at an apple store- maybe.

I know that at my reseller, theres a big push for add-ons cause thats where the profit is. HUGE markups on cameras, printers, tablets, bags, tape decks, hard drives... you name it- thats what we profit from. The Apple computers themselves have a razor thin margin...

 

[MovieCutter]

what's wrong with commission based jobs? if you were a doctor and suggested a better nutritional plan and sold the person a bottle of multi vitamins would you the doctor be considered a sleezy scumbag?

You're talking two different worlds buddy. I was referring to CompUSA specifically, and not commission based jobs in general. Read in context...Retail jobs pay very little and the sales guys are usually arrogant college white salesmen types who are under pressure from management to sell those add ons and attachments and who will say or do anything to make commission and get their extra cash. A doctor makes hundreds of thousands of dollars a year and is under very little pressure to sell one brand over the other. Retail guys whose salary is based on commission are usually (not always) sleazy scumbags, who...again, will say anything to get that extra buck.

 

[slipper]

Two different worlds in what way? In the Scenario i mentioned, they're very similar. You need to wake up if you think everything your family practice physician, surgeon, or any type of health care professional is correct.

If the bottle of vitamins provides a practical solution for the patient, i would not consider it sleaze. Same thing with the compusa sales person or any sales person. If the sales person offers an extended waranty and the customer feels that there is enough value to purchase the product, why is that considered sleazy? Another example, a car sales person approaches a family of 5 and they were looking for a mid sized sedan. The car sales person being the professional determines that a minivan may be a better solution for their needs. Is the sales person a scumbag for suggesting a more expensive product?

Vise versa. I saw a feature on a television show, pardon me since i dont remember where i saw it. It was about a particular surgeon who admitted every patient for surgery.

What im trying to get at is your comment or insinuation on how all or most compusa sales persons are scumbags is completely ridiculious.

 

[MovieCutter]

What im trying to get at is your comment or insinuation on how all or most compusa sales persons are scumbags is completely ridiculious.

Wow, really had to drag this one back from the brink of extinction to make your point...ok, I'm game...


Unfortunately, my personal experience at a number of CompUSA stores is all that I can go on, as well as the experiences of family and friends, and very VERY rarely do I come across a CompUSA salesperson who is actually trying to help the customer instead of himself and isn't coming off as a sleazy salesman. I don't know what CompUSA you work for or are shopping at, but you're having a rare experience. This dreamworld you're living in where the salesman has the best interest of the customer in mind must be a nice one, because it doesn't exist in many of the situations here in the real world.

And what car salesman do you know who doesn't pressure a more expensive car. It's one thing to suggest a more expensive car, but the pressure sales tactics that exist in many car dealerships and CompUSAs are different. Again, I never said there was anything wrong with commission based jobs, simply many (AGAIN, NOT ALL) of the people who are in them.

 

[Ripmax2000]

You guys think Apple Store employees are bad, I live in the UK and you should try going into PC World and buying something.
Those guys will go on and on about their Coverplan and will try and get you to pay for the product on their interest bearing payment plans.

At least AppleCare is worth something, their Coverplan costs more and is useless, I have never had anything go right with them.

Count yourselves lucky you don't have PC World stores over there.

 

[slipper]

Sorry for the untimely response but check how often i sign on to macrumors.

Maybe you dont find any value in an extended waranty, or .mac, or whatever. Usually when i purchase my cars or expensive electronics i choose to opt for some sort of extended waranty.

Its not like the product the sales person is offering is completely worthless.

In todays market any kind of sales is so consumer driven i cant see how someone could get ripped-off. That is if you've purchased from a large corporation such as compusa or a reputable dealership.

 

[mikes63737]

Or... you can try it at your Local Apple Store™ (mine: 5 minutes) and then buy it online. All they will do is ask if you need any help (maybe it's just that I am a minor and they think i'm gonna steal it ), and they go away after you say no once... except during the holidays, where they have 5784758174873817238478374837871483274827358743 employees doing nothing and you get asked every 2 seconds, but normally they're not too bad.

 

[mikes63737]

very VERY rarely do I come across a CompUSA salesperson who is actually trying to help the customer instead of himself and isn't coming off as a sleazy salesman.

I agree. When my dad was buying his computer (Sony Vaio... 1.2 GHz Celeron ) they kept offering an upgraded hard drive, more RAM, extended warranty... and even a longer power cord . He told them that he just came from a computer with 8 MB of RAM, a 1.8 GB HD, and Windows 95 and that he barely used any of the HD space (i think it was 300 MB he used) and all he ran was AOL. They wouldn't leave him alone, though.

Although, one time we had one who knew what he was doing... but one for 100... not very good.

 

[zap2]

I tried. It didn't work. Darn you apple employees!

maybe you need to work out for a while, "juice up" and wear tall shoes, so your 7.8'' 300Lbs walk in and say


"MacBook Pro 15' base model NOW DAMN IT!!! NOW"

If they say anything about any add ons say "Look at me, 7.8, 300Lbs i think i know what effing(use the real word) Mac i want, and if i need any of that extra crap i would have asked ok it?"

 

[AvSRoCkCO1067]

You're talking two different worlds buddy. I was referring to CompUSA specifically, and not commission based jobs in general. Read in context...Retail jobs pay very little and the sales guys are usually arrogant college white salesmen types who are under pressure from management to sell those add ons and attachments and who will say or do anything to make commission and get their extra cash. A doctor makes hundreds of thousands of dollars a year and is under very little pressure to sell one brand over the other. Retail guys whose salary is based on commission are usually (not always) sleazy scumbags, who...again, will say anything to get that extra buck.

To be honest, I was somewhat in your same train of thought before I worked in commission jobs. However, my parents have pushed me to get a variety of jobs before going to college...they wanted me to work in the food industry (King Soopers - Kroger), retail (Vail Corporation), specialized (Expressions Photography), and, of course, commission sales (Sears Corporation).

Having a variety of jobs has allowed me to not only gain quite a bit of credibility, but also to familiarize myself with a variety of different corporate cultures and people.

Have you ever held a job in commission sales? Clearly, if you have been involved in commission sales, your argument will immediately become more credible.

For me, personally, commission sales is extremely difficult. Surprisingly, I am happy with my base wage (6 bucks an hour). I promised myself that when I took this job I would not push warranties on people who didn't want them, would not encourage people into buying larger televisions than they need, and would avoid (at all costs) "reading the tags" to tell the customer about a television.

However, commission sales is not all about the paycheck - that's where your argument craps out. Commission sales is, for me anyway, more about the pressure of the managers. You see, they keep a daily track record of how many warranties we sell, what kind of televisions we push, and how many customers we serve. If we don't meet quotas, we're demoted (to sectors like 'Vacuums' or non-commission based jobs). So, when I do encourage a customer to buy a warranty, it has a little to do with the commission - it has more to do with pleasing my manager and remaining competent.

You ignore the competitive aspect of commission sales, and resort to name-calling. Let's hear your response, and we can go from there...

 

[AvSRoCkCO1067]

Wow, really had to drag this one back from the brink of extinction to make your point...ok, I'm game...


Unfortunately, my personal experience at a number of CompUSA stores is all that I can go on, as well as the experiences of family and friends, and very VERY rarely do I come across a CompUSA salesperson who is actually trying to help the customer instead of himself and isn't coming off as a sleazy salesman. I don't know what CompUSA you work for or are shopping at, but you're having a rare experience. This dreamworld you're living in where the salesman has the best interest of the customer in mind must be a nice one, because it doesn't exist in many of the situations here in the real world.

And what car salesman do you know who doesn't pressure a more expensive car. It's one thing to suggest a more expensive car, but the pressure sales tactics that exist in many car dealerships and CompUSAs are different. Again, I never said there was anything wrong with commission based jobs, simply many (AGAIN, NOT ALL) of the people who are in them.

On the other hand, this is a great point .

To be sure, the majority of the salesmen I've worked with know little of the product they are selling. In fact, most know more about the warranties on the products than they do on, for example, the computers they're selling.

But again, I stand by my post above - naive salespeople and salespeople who work off of commission are two seperate things. I work off of commission, and I like to think that I'm pretty knowledgeable of the products I sell. Moreover, I don't try and push products that the customers not interested in - they'll just return them later on, making me look terrible.

I look forward to your response, as this is definitely an interesting discussion...

 

[MovieCutter]

On the other hand, this is a great point .

To be sure, the majority of the salesmen I've worked with know little of the product they are selling. In fact, most know more about the warranties on the products than they do on, for example, the computers they're selling.

But again, I stand by my post above - naive salespeople and salespeople who work off of commission are two seperate things. I work off of commission, and I like to think that I'm pretty knowledgeable of the products I sell. Moreover, I don't try and push products that the customers not interested in - they'll just return them later on, making me look terrible.

I look forward to your response, as this is definitely an interesting discussion...

I have never worked commission jobs officially, but if you count the pressure from managers at Best Buy and Apple Retail Stores, then I have about 5 years experience. At Best Buy, primarily, I was treated as if I worked on commission. Managers would stand right behind me with clipboards checking off the various things we were required to sell (PSP, PRP, MSN activation, Netflix, etc.) It put pressure on me and made me feel like a sleazebag. Best Buy too keeps track of how many warranties we sold, instead of how many customers left the store satisfied. I didn't want to know how many warranties we sold that wouldn't help the customer out anyway, I wanted to know how many people left with a smile on their face because I knew what the hell I was talking about and helped them make the best purchase they could for them, not for me.

The same at Apple to a MUCH lesser extent. When asking the keyholder or manager to get a computer out of the cage for me, I would be asked what I attached to the computer (.Mac, AppleCare, ProCare, etc.) and felt as though there was pressure even though they never stated it outright. I never cared about the numbers, it was always about telling customers about the cool things our products could do and how they would make their lives easier. I took advantage of a loophole and made myself valuable in other ways even though my numbers weren't stellar. I believed in the products we were selling (I use many aspects of .Mac personally, and as a Final Cut Pro editor, I would normally charge >$100/hr for Final Cut training when one can obtain weekly training for $99/yr...so the value of the attachments is pretty fantastic for many types of people) but it wasn't my primary focus.

One of my best friends worked at Circuit City while they had commissioned sales a number of years ago, and he hated it. He told me himself he turned into the salesman-type he hated because he wanted the commission.

What I've made a point of several times is not to discount commission sales entirely, but state that a majority (based on mine and others observations, both in these forums and among my friends and relatives) of commissioned salespeople, specifically CompUSA, <b>come off</b> as sleazy salesmen after the extra buck. The only thing they focus on is the warranty. One of the reason I left Apple was because some of the newer faces in the store were primarily focused on their numbers to impress the managers. When I started, our mission was to win hearts and minds. When I left, it was to sell AppleCare and .Mac and ProCare. I felt like we lost our focus. While AppleCare is far better than the typical CompUSA or Best Buy warranty, I felt that it was becoming the primary focus of that aspect of the company. You are unique breed among your (former?) peers, which, unfortunately, are a minority among salespeople based on my observations.

 

[Maedus]

Two different worlds in what way? In the Scenario i mentioned, they're very similar. You need to wake up if you think everything your family practice physician, surgeon, or any type of health care professional is correct.
<snip>
What im trying to get at is your comment or insinuation on how all or most compusa sales persons are scumbags is completely ridiculious.

I think the problem with your analogy is that these industries are ran in totally different ways. The salesman is an unskilled laborer who's duty bound by his occupation to sell as much stuff and as expensive of stuff as he can reasonably manage with a customer in order to increase the profits for his store (and increase his paycheck if he works on commission) and to prove his value to the company. A doctor is a professional meaning that he is educated, licensed, and his occupation is bound by a code of ethics that if he fails to abide by, he will be barred from practicing his trade. For a salesman to push something that isn't necessary (though possibly beneficial) to a customer or to push a more expensive product over a cheaper equivalent is...his job, especially if he works on commissions. For a doctor to push surgeries and medical procedures that aren't necessary to a patient or to choose a more costly procedure over an equally effective cheaper procedure is an immoral violation of the ideas and principles of the "ideal doctor" and possibly even a violation of the doctor's code of ethics or even the law, though probably not.


And while there are commissioned salesmen out there that try to balance getting as much money out of you as possible but also give the best value that most fully satisfies your needs, there are also salesmen who simply try to make the most money they can, screw the customer.

Sort of like when my brother went to buy a used four wheel drive pickup with the 8 foot bed to use to take his four wheeler places to ride. They didn't have any that of those in stock so he was insisting that a two wheel drive pickup with a 6 3/4 foot bed would work just fine and that he could just throw some sandbags in the back in mud/snow and that should cover the lack of four wheel drive. Since this guy did not have my brother's interests in mind, my brother went elsewhere. Somebody who wasn't a "scum bag salesman" got the commission for a new (not used) F250 (he was undecided on F150 or F250) with a super cab (instead of regular) since my brother had decided that a new vehicle and a super cab would probably be worth the extra money since finding a used truck that met his criteria was proving rather difficult. The salesman that did get the commission might have suggested and pitched getting the F250 and the super cab over the F150 and regular cab, but he didn't try to stick him with something he didn't desire or for that matter, couldn't even use.

Personally, I don't have much experience with CompUSA employees, but from what I have gathered, computer and electronics salespeople are also pressured to sale add-ons since that is where they and/or the store make most of their money. Maybe CompUSA's managers and policy force their salespeople to be more aggressive at it than many of their competitors, so that is why some may feel that CompUSA salespeople are scum bags.

That is not to say that all people who work off commissions are evil people out to screw the customer for every dime he has. Many are good people doing a job and also a lot of it depends on the store over the salespeople more so than the salesperson. Maybe CompUSA is exceptionally hard with their employees forcing them to act like "scum bags." I'm not an expert on the subject, but simply thought that trying to compare a salesperson to a doctor was stretching it a bit.

 

[iZach]

at the apple stores by me, the people walking around just answer any questions you have, but when you want to buy the computer, you walk to the desk at the back and tell the cashier what you want. they go back and get it, and the person who helped you has nothing to do with the sale.

 

[theBB]

For a doctor to push surgeries and medical procedures that aren't necessary to a patient or to choose a more costly procedure over an equally effective cheaper procedure is an immoral violation of the ideas and principles of the "ideal doctor" and possibly even a violation of the doctor's code of ethics or even the law, though probably not.

As the son of a patient whose doctor confessed that they probably should not have done that surgery on him at his age, I gotta say human beings respond to the same incentives. Doctors do earn a bigger paycheck if they do more oprations and they respond accordingly. The problem is very few of us can tell whether the operation or drug he is pushing is any good for us and it is almost impossible to prosecute even when it amounts to fraud, as the trials turn into conflicting testimonies of experts.

Consider this. When the old US health insurance system was passively reimbursing hospitals for medical procedures, tests etc., the studies were showing that the hospitals and their doctors were ordering more tests than necessary. Now, HMOs are paying bonuses to hospitals and doctors for avoding these procedures and they end up requiring far fewer of them, maybe even less than necessary. How is that different than salespeople on commissions?

 

[mikemodena]

I just quit Stop and Shop today but while I did work there we had to push Jimmy Fund Tickets which are supposed to be for charity but the store gets kickbacks for them. All employees are pressured no matter what.. just the corruption *this* employee saw drove him out of the grocery business. I'll happily spend the rest of my summer doing web design and dealing with customers for my dad's moving company.

 

[Maedus]

The difference to me, theBB, is that a salesperson trying to sell as much as possible is doing his job since his job is to sell things. A doctor who is trying to "sell" as much as he can to a patient is not doing his job because his duty is to heal the patient. In an ideal world, the salesperson would sell us only the things we need and want (even if he had to help us figure it out) and not try to sell the most expensive item or a bunch of junk we'll never use. The ideal world's doctor would give us the treatment we require and not try and pad his wallet by running unnecessary tests or by declaring pulling a piece of metal out of your hand as surgery because you have insurance or a doctor's call if you don't since insurance will pick up the inflated cost or that doctors now try and curry favor with the system by doing the opposite.

I guess the difference is that regardless of how "scum bag" a salesperson is, he is still doing his job properly whereas the doctor who acts like a salesperson isn't being a proper doctor.

 

[FullmetalZ26]

I guess the difference is that regardless of how "scum bag" a salesperson is, he is still doing his job properly[...]

And if anyone's the true scumbag, it's the higher-up(s) responsible for making the poor salesman have to push all that crap on you. After working in retail the past 3 years I can honestly tell you that salesperson couldn't care less about whether or not you buy the AppleCare or the carry case or the copy of iWork, he (or she) just doesn't want to get yelled at by the person in control of his paycheck. It's some twisted form of the survival instinct, except it's the wellbeing of the customer's wallet you're sacrificing for your continued ability to pay the bills. What an awful type of relationship that is, but I suppose that's why I'm in college

 

[AvSRoCkCO1067]

And if anyone's the true scumbag, it's the higher-up(s) responsible for making the poor salesman have to push all that crap on you. After working in retail the past 3 years I can honestly tell you that salesperson couldn't care less about whether or not you buy the AppleCare or the carry case or the copy of iWork, he (or she) just doesn't want to get yelled at by the person in control of his paycheck. It's some twisted form of the survival instinct, except it's the wellbeing of the customer's wallet you're sacrificing for your continued ability to pay the bills. What an awful type of relationship that is, but I suppose that's why I'm in college

That's exactly how it is. Well put .

 

[mortey]

And if anyone's the true scumbag, it's the higher-up(s) responsible for making the poor salesman have to push all that crap on you. After working in retail the past 3 years I can honestly tell you that salesperson couldn't care less about whether or not you buy the AppleCare or the carry case or the copy of iWork, he (or she) just doesn't want to get yelled at by the person in control of his paycheck. It's some twisted form of the survival instinct, except it's the wellbeing of the customer's wallet you're sacrificing for your continued ability to pay the bills. What an awful type of relationship that is, but I suppose that's why I'm in college

QFT my friend.