My question is - How much time do you spend hanging out at the local Apple Store every week?
Thats exactly what I was thinking!
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Apple store steering folks away from MBA.
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Thats exactly what I was thinking!
my take on a semi/severely retarded reply to my post;
if a customer, such as myself, goes into the apple store and says they'd like the base 11 inch macbook air and the sales rep tries to sell me a macbook pro but I am insisting on the macbook air, they should not pester me after they've suggested the upsale once already. That's common courtesy as well as good customer-sales rep etiquette. As a matter of fact, if you've ever worked for apple, in the training this is emphasized a lot
Actually quite amazing how much you could gather from my post. I have never worked in a place where I'd really have to deal with other people, nor would I want to. - You, my man, have got a 6th sense (or I'm just that *******).
when I was buying my MBP a few years ago, the salesguy was trying to get me to buy the MBA (rev A, I believe), telling me how much better it would be for me, and how a MBP would not suit my needs. but he never even asked me what my needs were! of course, I did not listen to him, and bought what I needed at the time, which was the MBP. the apple salespeople (in NYC anyway) are very very pushy..
funny sidenote (and Im not trying to wage a PC/mac debate, just telling a story)- before pushing the MBA on me, the salesguy was trying to convince me that building a similarly spec'ed dell would cost the same, if not more, than the MBP I wanted. so he went on the dell site right there in the store and customized one accordingly, and funny enough, it was 500 dollars cheaper than the mac! completely blew the wind out of his argument... plus the lady next to us overheard, and said if it was true, she would rather get the dell... lol, this left the salesguy speechless.
I just wish the apple salespeople were a bit more knowledgable and a lot less pushy, and that would make the purchasing experience that much better. Now when I need something, I just say "this is what I want, ring me up" and dont even let them start with their BS.
funny sidenote (and Im not trying to wage a PC/mac debate, just telling a story)- before pushing the MBA on me, the salesguy was trying to convince me that building a similarly spec'ed dell would cost the same, if not more, than the MBP I wanted. so he went on the dell site right there in the store and customized one accordingly, and funny enough, it was 500 dollars cheaper than the mac! completely blew the wind out of his argument... plus the lady next to us overheard, and said if it was true, she would rather get the dell... lol, this left the salesguy speechless.
I just wish the apple salespeople were a bit more knowledgable and a lot less pushy, and that would make the purchasing experience that much better. Now when I need something, I just say "this is what I want, ring me up" and dont even let them start with their BS.
I believe you are right. There's clearly a difference, and since the new case for the MBA models involved new tooling, design, and other manufacturing costs, it's bound to be more expensive for Apple.
The 13" MBP has more than paid for itself so Apples profit margin is bound to be far better.
There are essentially 4 types of people in an Apple Store (excluding the ones there for post-purchase service, i.e.: Genius Bar or One-to-One).
1) Browsers - just there to look, play on FB or whatever
2) People who know what they want. These people are the easiest. Get them what they want and don't bother them with too many questions.
3) People who are brand new to mac. These people need the whole package. Everything from how to use the software to what hardware would best fit their requirements. This group is the group that asks why they should buy a Mac over a Dell/HP/Whatever.
4) People who are buying their first Mac. Similar to above, but they've already decided that they want a Mac. There is still a little bit on the software, but most of the time, it's really about differentiating the hardware differences for them.
In the case of 3 and 4, the Specialist really has to do a good job of listening to the customer and how the customer is going to use the computer. Crappy specialists just don't care. They don't really listen and will try to steer you to whatever they have or think is cool (even though they don't get commission). Good specialists are going to know the different products and be pretty good listeners.
The best specialists are going to listen to what you have to say and make specific recommendations bringing back up what they heard you say (You said you were into video editing, and you wanted a laptop that was portable, so I think the 15" MBP is probably the best machine for you...). We're also the ones who can recognize other Mac Nerds and joke with them.
Unfortunately, a lot of the specialists aren't very good. Sorry to all of you who had crappy help. It's why I tried to be one of the best.
1) Browsers - just there to look, play on FB or whatever
2) People who know what they want. These people are the easiest. Get them what they want and don't bother them with too many questions.
3) People who are brand new to mac. These people need the whole package. Everything from how to use the software to what hardware would best fit their requirements. This group is the group that asks why they should buy a Mac over a Dell/HP/Whatever.
4) People who are buying their first Mac. Similar to above, but they've already decided that they want a Mac. There is still a little bit on the software, but most of the time, it's really about differentiating the hardware differences for them.
In the case of 3 and 4, the Specialist really has to do a good job of listening to the customer and how the customer is going to use the computer. Crappy specialists just don't care. They don't really listen and will try to steer you to whatever they have or think is cool (even though they don't get commission). Good specialists are going to know the different products and be pretty good listeners.
The best specialists are going to listen to what you have to say and make specific recommendations bringing back up what they heard you say (You said you were into video editing, and you wanted a laptop that was portable, so I think the 15" MBP is probably the best machine for you...). We're also the ones who can recognize other Mac Nerds and joke with them.
Unfortunately, a lot of the specialists aren't very good. Sorry to all of you who had crappy help. It's why I tried to be one of the best.
It sounds like you should look at the Samsung series 9 which is expandable to 8 GB (only has a 13" size though).
Will say that I love my 10/2010 MBA - but then I have my 4 yo iMac for the heavy stuff for now.
The problem with what the OP posted (from working in a retail job here) is that we are not hearing the complete sales cycle. And Apple does not make it easy with the pricing between models/systems. Even if the Mac mini had Sandybridge, the iMac COULD be the better buy. Same way with the MBA vs the MBP. Bang for the buck can over ride initial desires.
In particular when it is a purchase made by a parent. They want the best value for the $. Their kid may want what they think is hot and/or cute - not thinking of the longer term.
Something I find funny in reading the threads here on MR - never have I seen a poster make a comment about an Apple sales associate trying to down sale a customer from lets say from a macked out MBA 13" for a MBA 11".
In the end a good sales person will sale the buyer what they want; and make sure they feel good about the purchase. That is made hard when there are two people making the buying decision.
My question is - How much time do you spend hanging out at the local Apple Store every week?
Man, if they had Apple Stores in New Zealand I think I'd be there quite a bit too
.I find it pretty odd that this should be happening; apart from connectivity I can't see how anyone could be convinced to go from Air to 13" MBP. The Air has higher screen resolution, runs cooler, and runs faster in many ways courtesy of the SSD, which is a big cost increase for the MBP.
But if people are getting told that and going with it and more profit is being made, more power to the salespeople!
If this has been mentioned already, apologies.
As numerous "inside look" articles (MacRumors, WSJ, NYTimes, etc.) have all pointed out, Apple employees do not receive commissions from their sales, nor do they have "sales quotas" per month. What the WSJ calls "attachment rates" are metrics that are useful to the store, but Apple Retail Stores are not like Best Buys or other traditional retail models.
That said, if the Apple Store employee was directing the customer toward a different product, this most likely followed a series of interrogative questions to determine the customer's needs. The Apple employees that I have been helped by have actually tried to "down-sell me" whenever I was interested in buying a product that was more expensive than what I needed.
Regarding the college student mentioned on page one of this thread, anyone who's been an undergraduate in the past five years knows that playing DVDs (or gaming, or music CDs) is important for a college student, especially if they aren't bringing a TV with them.
If that customer's computer was intended as a primary computer for the next four years, it makes sense that the Specialist would have suggested something more robust like an MBP, even if the Air is more portable and "novel."
As numerous "inside look" articles (MacRumors, WSJ, NYTimes, etc.) have all pointed out, Apple employees do not receive commissions from their sales, nor do they have "sales quotas" per month. What the WSJ calls "attachment rates" are metrics that are useful to the store, but Apple Retail Stores are not like Best Buys or other traditional retail models.
That said, if the Apple Store employee was directing the customer toward a different product, this most likely followed a series of interrogative questions to determine the customer's needs. The Apple employees that I have been helped by have actually tried to "down-sell me" whenever I was interested in buying a product that was more expensive than what I needed.
Regarding the college student mentioned on page one of this thread, anyone who's been an undergraduate in the past five years knows that playing DVDs (or gaming, or music CDs) is important for a college student, especially if they aren't bringing a TV with them.
If that customer's computer was intended as a primary computer for the next four years, it makes sense that the Specialist would have suggested something more robust like an MBP, even if the Air is more portable and "novel."
Not if the college student already said she was never going to use it for those uses, specified the apps that she wanted to use, and said a primary use was taking it to class for notes. I was there, I heard what she said. She also apparently had been there before and had already settled on what she wanted and told the salesperson. He spent about 20 minutes trying to convince her parents she was making a mistake. Even if she was wrong, it still seems like pretty stupid behavior on the salesman part. He clearly was convinced that the MBA was not a usable system.
That is very contrary to the article about their retail sales philosophy that was posted here recently. Apple store employees are not incentivized by sales of specific products. Their metrics are based on add-on sales of accessories etc.
Plus, if a refresh is coming they would want to deplete their inventory of the older product.
Further, Apple has said frequently that MBA are fueling their market share.
Of course, perhaps sales of the Pro's are stale and they need to move the stock.
Still, I've never known Apple staff to try and move me to another product and I've dropped a wad of cash over a lot of purchases.
Plus, if a refresh is coming they would want to deplete their inventory of the older product.
Further, Apple has said frequently that MBA are fueling their market share.
Of course, perhaps sales of the Pro's are stale and they need to move the stock.
Still, I've never known Apple staff to try and move me to another product and I've dropped a wad of cash over a lot of purchases.
now that the OP has mentioned, i remember when first buying the mba 11" December last year, my classmate who worked at the local apple store tried to persuade me to get a 13" mbp instead as well... At the time i thought it was just her preference and never gave a second thought about it.
Why would they want that tho?... The 13" base mbp is cheaper than a maxed out mba. And as people have stated, there are news around stating that the mba is a HUGE success on apple's part. weird.
Why would they want that tho?... The 13" base mbp is cheaper than a maxed out mba. And as people have stated, there are news around stating that the mba is a HUGE success on apple's part. weird.
Ignore salespeople. Buy what you want!
A good rule of thumb is to strongly consider the opposite of whatever the smiling friendly salesperson tells you. Their motives are not your interests.
Buy the MBA.
Ask for another salesperson if you find one who is a bit too pushy. That will really look bad for them when management runs their numbers for the day.
A good rule of thumb is to strongly consider the opposite of whatever the smiling friendly salesperson tells you. Their motives are not your interests.
Buy the MBA.
Ask for another salesperson if you find one who is a bit too pushy. That will really look bad for them when management runs their numbers for the day.
You beat me to it. All reports are that the 2010 MBAs have been wildly successful. If my own experience with a 13 inch Ultimate MBA is any indication of the reason for the MBAs' success, it is that MBAs are remarkable capable as well as being sleek and lightweight. I have been using Mac laptops as my principal computers for 8 years and my MBA, my all day every day machine, is the best yet. I run Windows 7 with a couple of Windows programs open all the time in a VMware Fusion virtual machine plus 5 or 6 OS X apps, also open all the time. Despite this rather heavy load I almost never have to reboot. Just checked my iStat Pro Widget and learned that I last rebooted 14 days 5 hours ago. Make of all that what you will.
As someone who goes into an apple store and knows exactly what I want to buy, I have never had issues with salespeople even attempting to change my mind in an apple store.
However I can see some of the reasons why they might try. All conspiracy theories aside, the current 13 inch macbook pro is a much more powerful machine than the air. Yes I know the air is probably fast enough to run most current apps ok with the 1.4ghz C2D and 2gb of ram, but most of the time when parents are buying a laptop for college, I'm going to guess they expect it to last a few years. Given the rate of microsoft bloat, (and yes I know pages exists, but let's be real here, people use office most of the time) the machine will probably start to choke on the later versions of office. 64gb also is quite small, especially if you say... own a 32gb iphone etc etc. It's certainly possible to keep all your stuff on an external drive, but that requires extra work on the part of the end user, especially with stuff like itunes auto backups and such. For a student's use, the pro with it's increased battery life, more ports, and significantly faster processor and ram are probably a good choice. To be honest with a pending refresh of the MBA to get it past the C2D stage, it's not a bad idea to go with the Pro to get sandybridge, or just wait until the refresh obviously.
Does that make the air a bad machine? no. Should people buy the air if it exactly suits their needs? yes. Can you return anything to an apple store within 2 weeks if you don't like it and get something else? also yes.
I really doubt it's a conspiracy to get people to not buy the air. And honestly, people should do thier own research and buy whatever they want. As much as it would be annoying to have a salesperson try to steer you to a product... it would be more annoying to me to have another customer try to do it if I knew what I was doing.
That said, I still own a maxed out 11 inch mba... along with a 2011 13 inch mbp... and each has it's own uses. Both are good machines, and yes while I like the air's weight and form factor, I find it significantly slower than the i5, on basic things such as flash based web browsing, which I assure you many people would try to use their laptops for.
However I can see some of the reasons why they might try. All conspiracy theories aside, the current 13 inch macbook pro is a much more powerful machine than the air. Yes I know the air is probably fast enough to run most current apps ok with the 1.4ghz C2D and 2gb of ram, but most of the time when parents are buying a laptop for college, I'm going to guess they expect it to last a few years. Given the rate of microsoft bloat, (and yes I know pages exists, but let's be real here, people use office most of the time) the machine will probably start to choke on the later versions of office. 64gb also is quite small, especially if you say... own a 32gb iphone etc etc. It's certainly possible to keep all your stuff on an external drive, but that requires extra work on the part of the end user, especially with stuff like itunes auto backups and such. For a student's use, the pro with it's increased battery life, more ports, and significantly faster processor and ram are probably a good choice. To be honest with a pending refresh of the MBA to get it past the C2D stage, it's not a bad idea to go with the Pro to get sandybridge, or just wait until the refresh obviously.
Does that make the air a bad machine? no. Should people buy the air if it exactly suits their needs? yes. Can you return anything to an apple store within 2 weeks if you don't like it and get something else? also yes.
I really doubt it's a conspiracy to get people to not buy the air. And honestly, people should do thier own research and buy whatever they want. As much as it would be annoying to have a salesperson try to steer you to a product... it would be more annoying to me to have another customer try to do it if I knew what I was doing.
That said, I still own a maxed out 11 inch mba... along with a 2011 13 inch mbp... and each has it's own uses. Both are good machines, and yes while I like the air's weight and form factor, I find it significantly slower than the i5, on basic things such as flash based web browsing, which I assure you many people would try to use their laptops for.
The current lineup of MacBook Airs make a fine secondary computer but it will be a poor choice as the only computer. Core 2 Duo in 2011 is just laughable.
I think you gave that college student a poor advice, especially knowing that a hardware update was just around the corner. You should have told her to wait a month for a Sandy Bridge MBA or get a MBP. Too bad her return period is up and she is stuck with an outdated netbook with a last generation CPU.
I think you gave that college student a poor advice, especially knowing that a hardware update was just around the corner. You should have told her to wait a month for a Sandy Bridge MBA or get a MBP. Too bad her return period is up and she is stuck with an outdated netbook with a last generation CPU.
well said
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Well said.
As a long time Mac desktop user, but one who has tried to go portable most of the specialists I dealt with at the 5th Apple Store (very early in the morning granted) were not that good.
But what really bothered me more than some of the help who didn't have a clue, it was the manager playing "dumb" as far as the educational discount, definitely trying to shaft me on the amount for MBAs and the Applecare when I showed him the exact amount the online Apple store was discounting on one of their display machines.
If the customer knows what's right for them, they shouldn't be pushed to buy another product. Suggestions? Sure, but not a push.
<<
Well said.
As a long time Mac desktop user, but one who has tried to go portable most of the specialists I dealt with at the 5th Apple Store (very early in the morning granted) were not that good.
But what really bothered me more than some of the help who didn't have a clue, it was the manager playing "dumb" as far as the educational discount, definitely trying to shaft me on the amount for MBAs and the Applecare when I showed him the exact amount the online Apple store was discounting on one of their display machines.
If the customer knows what's right for them, they shouldn't be pushed to buy another product. Suggestions? Sure, but not a push.