Apple sued over 'inferior' panel in 20" iMacs

[doug in albq]

(Why not? It might help some folks...)
_________________________________

LCD Types (From Wikipedia)

[edit] TN + film

The inexpensive 'TN (twisted nematic) + film' display is the most common consumer display type. The pixel response time on modern TN panels is sufficiently fast to avoid the shadow-trail and ghosting artifacts of earlier production. The fast response time has been emphasized in advertising TN displays, although in most cases this number does not reflect performance across the entire range of possible color transitions. Response times were quoted for an ISO standard black-to-white transition and did not reflect the speed of much more common transitions from one shade of grey to another. More recent use of RTC (Response Time Compensation – Overdrive) technologies has allowed manufacturers to significantly reduce grey-to-grey (G2G) transitions, without significantly improving the ISO response time. Response times are now quoted in G2G figures, with 4ms and 2ms now being commonplace for TN Film based models. The good response time and low cost has led to the dominance of TN in the consumer market.

The TN display suffers from limited viewing angles, especially in the vertical direction. Many** use 6, instead of 8, bits per color, and are consequently unable to display the full 16.7 million colors (24-bit truecolor) available from modern graphics cards. These panels can display interpolated 24-bit color using a dithering method which combines adjacent pixels to simulate the desired shade. They can also use FRC (Frame Rate Control), which quickly cycles pixels over time to simulate a given shade. These color simulation methods are noticeable to most people and bothersome to some. FRC tends to be most noticeable in darker tones, while dithering appears to make the individual pixels of the LCD visible. Overall, color reproduction and linearity on TN panels is poor. Shortcomings in display color gamut (often referred to as a percentage of the NTSC 1953 color gamut) are also due to backlighting technology. It is not uncommon for displays with CCFL (Cold Cathode Fluorescent Lamps)-based lighting to range from 40% to 76% of the NTSC color gamut, whereas displays utilizing white LED backlights may extend past 100% of the NTSC color gamut – a difference quite perceivable by the human eye.

The transmittance of a pixel of an LCD panel typically does not change linearly with the applied voltage,[1] and the sRGB standard for computer monitors requires a specific nonlinear dependence of the amount of emitted light as a function of the RGB value.

[edit] IPS

IPS (in-plane switching) was developed by Hitachi in 1996 to improve on the poor viewing angles and color reproduction of TN panels. Most panels also support true 8-bit color. These improvements came at the cost of a slower response time, initially about 50ms. IPS panels were also extremely expensive.

IPS has since been superseded by S-IPS (Super-IPS, Hitachi in 1998), which has all the benefits of IPS technology with the addition of improved pixel refresh timing. Though color reproduction approaches that of CRTs, the dynamic range is lower. S-IPS technology is widely used in panel sizes of 20" and above. LG and Philips remain one of the main manufacturers of S-IPS based panels.

AS-IPS – Advanced Super IPS, also developed by Hitachi in 2002, improves substantially on the contrast ratio of traditional S-IPS panels to the point where they are second only to some S-PVAs. AS-IPS is also a term used for NEC displays (e.g., NEC LCD20WGX2) based on S-IPS technology, in this case, developed by LG.Philips.

A-TW-IPS – Advanced True White IPS, developed by LG.Philips LCD for NEC, is a custom S-IPS panel with a TW (True White) color filter to make white look more natural and to increase color gamut. This is used in professional/photography LCDs.

H-IPS – Released in late 2006, an evolution of the IPS panel which improves upon its predecessor, the S-IPS panel. The H-IPS panel is used in the NEC LCD2690WUXi, Mitsubishi RDT261W 26″ LCD, Planar PX2611W[2] and Apple's newest Aluminum 24" iMac.

The pros/cons of the H-IPS over the S-IPS:

Pros:

* Much less backlight bleed.
* No purple hue visible at an angle
* Backlight bleed improves looking at an angle
* Less noise or glitter seen on the panel surface (smoother surface)

Cons:

* Still some backlight bleed in areas that are green.
* Viewing angle is narrower.

Image of a (switched on) transreflective color TFT LCD taken under a microscope with reflected light illumination lamp off (top, self-illumination only) and on (bottom).
Image of a (switched on) transreflective color TFT LCD taken under a microscope with reflected light illumination lamp off (top, self-illumination only) and on (bottom).

Fringe Field Switching is a technique used to improve viewing angle and transmittance on IPS displays. [3]

[edit] MVA

MVA (multi-domain vertical alignment) was originally developed in 1998 by Fujitsu as a compromise between TN and IPS. It achieved pixel response which was fast for its time, wide viewing angles, and high contrast at the cost of brightness and color reproduction. Modern MVA panels can offer wide viewing angles (second only to S-IPS technology), good black depth, good color reproduction and depth, and fast response times due to the use of RTC technologies. There are several "next-generation" technologies based on MVA, including AU Optronics' P-MVA and A-MVA, as well as Chi Mei Optoelectronics' S-MVA.

Analysts predicted that MVA would dominate the mainstream market, but the cheaper and slightly faster TN overtook it. MVA's pixel response times rise dramatically with small changes in brightness. Cheaper MVA panels can use dithering and FRC.

[edit] PVA

PVA (patterned vertical alignment) and S-PVA (super patterned vertical alignment) are alternative versions of MVA technology offered by Samsung. Developed independently, they offer similar features to MVA, but with higher contrast ratios of up to 3000:1. Less expensive PVA panels often use dithering and FRC, while S-PVA panels all use at least 8-bit color and do not use any color simulation methods. Some newer S-PVA panels offered by Eizo offer 10-bit color internally, which enables gamma and other corrections with reduced banding. PVA and S-PVA offer good black depth and wide viewing angles and S-PVA also offers fast response times using modern RTC technologies.


** Not all them? (my question)

 

[czachorski]

trip1ex you are wasting your time. Common sense doesnt work with some of these people.

And when you use common sense, their only defense is to go on to the "fanboy" accusations. Ahhh - so typical and textbook trolling. Nicely done, guys! The last throws of a failed argument: "You are just a bunch of fanboys".

 

[ditzy]

I've never got this if someone disagrees with anything apple do the are called trolls and if someone agrees with them they are called fanboys. Nothing can be discussed if people just result to name calling whenever people disagree with each other.

Some people some to be making the buyer beware arguement. If you buy something it is you obligation to find out exactly what your buying. To do full research on it. If you find some thing out after buying you have two weeks in which to return.

Others including me argue that the sellers (I don't just think this about apple I would say the same about any company) have an obligation to tell you.

As I've already said I don't think that the issue itself is that huge. However if apple were completly transparent from the very beginning no one would have any right to complain.

A few people have said that I wouldn't care if I had known. You know what you are probably right. In my opinion that does not mean that I shouldn't be told.

 

[VoodooDaddy]

Some sheeple think Apple is doin' them a favor by accepting their money.

LK

Seriously man, why do you post here? I certainly wouldnt spend my time trolling message boards bashing products and companies I hate, I have better things to do. I dont think Ive ever seen 1 post of your that wasnt negative towards Apple.

 

[VoodooDaddy]

I've never got this if someone disagrees with anything apple do the are called trolls.

When someone continually bashes something, but yet continues to hang around and post (Leon), thats a troll.

I dont expect everyone to agree with everything Apple does. Nothing wrong with criticism. Maybe if I had had a bad experience with something Id have a different opinion of them also.

I have had some bad experience. Wifes Macbook hdd failed and she lost everything. 6 months worth of pictures, Christmas, birthdays, etc. However I had told her over and over and over to back stuff up, even bought her an external hdd to do it and she didnt. So I place that blame on her.

Then she got a new (refurb) Macbook about a month ago and it had problems from the get go. Apple replaced it and the 2nd one was fine.

So its not like I havent had some negative experience with Apple, but the positive certainly outdo the negative. And if I was a total Apple/Mac hater, I certainly wouldnt hang around and let everyone know it in every single post I make.

 

[czachorski]

I've never got this if someone disagrees with anything apple do the are called trolls and if someone agrees with them they are called fanboys. Nothing can be discussed if people just result to name calling whenever people disagree with each other.

Some people some to be making the buyer beware arguement. If you buy something it is you obligation to find out exactly what your buying. To do full research on it. If you find some thing out after buying you have two weeks in which to return.

Others including me argue that the sellers (I don't just think this about apple I would say the same about any company) have an obligation to tell you.

As I've already said I don't think that the issue itself is that huge. However if apple were completly transparent from the very beginning no one would have any right to complain.

A few people have said that I wouldn't care if I had known. You know what you are probably right. In my opinion that does not mean that I shouldn't be told.

I hear you, but follow your thought a little further. Should they tell you the details of all the components to that level? What about the HD? The power supply? The case? There are probably dozens if not hundreds of such decisions and optimizations that are made in a product design that you would never know about. And then the process of making sure you are told: should they give you a form with all of these disclosures on it, and make you initial by each one? Would you still be buying the machine at that point? Is every maker going to do this, or just Apple? Maybe we need a law to enforce this. I mean, how far do you want to go with it?

Fact is, Apple disclosed quite a bit to make it clear that the 20" and 24" are different qualities. Beyond that, it is no different than it ever has been in sales: buyer beware and don't take everything you hear in a marketing pitch as gospel. The buyer has to take some personal responsibility. Has to. And has been pointed out, even if you take none, and get home and it stinks, you still have a return policy, which even the most adamant Apple hater here has admitted he has used. Twice!

 

[nout72]

This constant complaining-loop about the poor screen, with every possible internet-link to a picture gallery, specifications, quotes from a LCD screen glossary etc. etc. will stop if people wouldn't be so lazy to post a new thread about this subject!
But instead would type some simple key words in Google's search box: everything about this subject has repeatedly been said in numerous threads on numerous message boards.
I wish it could stop

 

[ditzy]

I hear you, but follow your thought a little further. Should they tell you the details of all the components to that level? What about the HD? The power supply? The case? There are probably dozens if not hundreds of such decisions and optimizations that are made in a product design that you would never know about. And then the process of making sure you are told: should they give you a form with all of these disclosures on it, and make you initial by each one? Would you still be buying the machine at that point? Is every maker going to do this, or just Apple? Maybe we need a law to enforce this. I mean, how far do you want to go with it?

Fact is, Apple disclosed quite a bit to make it clear that the 20" and 24" are different qualities. Beyond that, it is no different than it ever has been in sales: buyer beware and don't take everything you hear in a marketing pitch as gospel. The buyer has to take some personal responsibility. Has to. And has been pointed out, even if you take none, and get home and it stinks, you still have a return policy, which even the most adamant Apple hater here has admitted he has used. Twice!

Any arugment looks silly if you carry it to the extreme. The extreme of your arguement (Which I am not accusing you of having or taking) is who cares about what size the monitor is, who cares about the clock speed. It's a computer, it works, what's your problem.
This i again say is not at all where I think your position is. I think you should also except that my position is not I want to know exactly how long the power cord is.
I think this is just a disagrrment on the level of disclosure I think on this issue it should be more transparent, you think this level is ok.

 

[trip1ex]

trip1ex you are wasting your time. Common sense doesnt work with some of these people.

Well you're right. But I like to see their reaction when you throw alot of common sense in their face. I also like the practice of typing up responses off the top of my head to their arguments.

 

[trip1ex]

(Why not? It might help some folks...)
_________________________________

LCD Types (From Wikipedia)

[edit] TN + film

The inexpensive 'TN (twisted nematic) + film' display is the most common consumer display type. The pixel response time on modern TN panels is sufficiently fast to avoid the shadow-trail and ghosting artifacts of earlier production. The fast response time has been emphasized in advertising TN displays, although in most cases this number does not reflect performance across the entire range of possible color transitions. Response times were quoted for an ISO standard black-to-white transition and did not reflect the speed of much more common transitions from one shade of grey to another. More recent use of RTC (Response Time Compensation – Overdrive) technologies has allowed manufacturers to significantly reduce grey-to-grey (G2G) transitions, without significantly improving the ISO response time. Response times are now quoted in G2G figures, with 4ms and 2ms now being commonplace for TN Film based models. The good response time and low cost has led to the dominance of TN in the consumer market.

The TN display suffers from limited viewing angles, especially in the vertical direction. Many** use 6, instead of 8, bits per color, and are consequently unable to display the full 16.7 million colors (24-bit truecolor) available from modern graphics cards. These panels can display interpolated 24-bit color using a dithering method which combines adjacent pixels to simulate the desired shade. They can also use FRC (Frame Rate Control), which quickly cycles pixels over time to simulate a given shade. These color simulation methods are noticeable to most people and bothersome to some. FRC tends to be most noticeable in darker tones, while dithering appears to make the individual pixels of the LCD visible. Overall, color reproduction and linearity on TN panels is poor. Shortcomings in display color gamut (often referred to as a percentage of the NTSC 1953 color gamut) are also due to backlighting technology. It is not uncommon for displays with CCFL (Cold Cathode Fluorescent Lamps)-based lighting to range from 40% to 76% of the NTSC color gamut, whereas displays utilizing white LED backlights may extend past 100% of the NTSC color gamut – a difference quite perceivable by the human eye.

The transmittance of a pixel of an LCD panel typically does not change linearly with the applied voltage,[1] and the sRGB standard for computer monitors requires a specific nonlinear dependence of the amount of emitted light as a function of the RGB value.

[edit] IPS

IPS (in-plane switching) was developed by Hitachi in 1996 to improve on the poor viewing angles and color reproduction of TN panels. Most panels also support true 8-bit color. These improvements came at the cost of a slower response time, initially about 50ms. IPS panels were also extremely expensive.

IPS has since been superseded by S-IPS (Super-IPS, Hitachi in 1998), which has all the benefits of IPS technology with the addition of improved pixel refresh timing. Though color reproduction approaches that of CRTs, the dynamic range is lower. S-IPS technology is widely used in panel sizes of 20" and above. LG and Philips remain one of the main manufacturers of S-IPS based panels.

AS-IPS – Advanced Super IPS, also developed by Hitachi in 2002, improves substantially on the contrast ratio of traditional S-IPS panels to the point where they are second only to some S-PVAs. AS-IPS is also a term used for NEC displays (e.g., NEC LCD20WGX2) based on S-IPS technology, in this case, developed by LG.Philips.

A-TW-IPS – Advanced True White IPS, developed by LG.Philips LCD for NEC, is a custom S-IPS panel with a TW (True White) color filter to make white look more natural and to increase color gamut. This is used in professional/photography LCDs.

H-IPS – Released in late 2006, an evolution of the IPS panel which improves upon its predecessor, the S-IPS panel. The H-IPS panel is used in the NEC LCD2690WUXi, Mitsubishi RDT261W 26″ LCD, Planar PX2611W[2] and Apple's newest Aluminum 24" iMac.

The pros/cons of the H-IPS over the S-IPS:

Pros:

* Much less backlight bleed.
* No purple hue visible at an angle
* Backlight bleed improves looking at an angle
* Less noise or glitter seen on the panel surface (smoother surface)

Cons:

* Still some backlight bleed in areas that are green.
* Viewing angle is narrower.

Image of a (switched on) transreflective color TFT LCD taken under a microscope with reflected light illumination lamp off (top, self-illumination only) and on (bottom).
Image of a (switched on) transreflective color TFT LCD taken under a microscope with reflected light illumination lamp off (top, self-illumination only) and on (bottom).

Fringe Field Switching is a technique used to improve viewing angle and transmittance on IPS displays. [3]

[edit] MVA

MVA (multi-domain vertical alignment) was originally developed in 1998 by Fujitsu as a compromise between TN and IPS. It achieved pixel response which was fast for its time, wide viewing angles, and high contrast at the cost of brightness and color reproduction. Modern MVA panels can offer wide viewing angles (second only to S-IPS technology), good black depth, good color reproduction and depth, and fast response times due to the use of RTC technologies. There are several "next-generation" technologies based on MVA, including AU Optronics' P-MVA and A-MVA, as well as Chi Mei Optoelectronics' S-MVA.

Analysts predicted that MVA would dominate the mainstream market, but the cheaper and slightly faster TN overtook it. MVA's pixel response times rise dramatically with small changes in brightness. Cheaper MVA panels can use dithering and FRC.

[edit] PVA

PVA (patterned vertical alignment) and S-PVA (super patterned vertical alignment) are alternative versions of MVA technology offered by Samsung. Developed independently, they offer similar features to MVA, but with higher contrast ratios of up to 3000:1. Less expensive PVA panels often use dithering and FRC, while S-PVA panels all use at least 8-bit color and do not use any color simulation methods. Some newer S-PVA panels offered by Eizo offer 10-bit color internally, which enables gamma and other corrections with reduced banding. PVA and S-PVA offer good black depth and wide viewing angles and S-PVA also offers fast response times using modern RTC technologies.


** Not all them? (my question)

You're preaching to the choir. No one is saying the panels aren't different and that the 20" isn't worse.

It's a well documented issue going back to when they were first launched. Macworld (in their review last September or August) even said the 20" screens had a noticeably worse viewing angle and had some gradient issues.

The point really is that folks have a 2 wk return period and that imo the issue is a bit overblown. It's just not a big deal for most people it's not all that noticeable. I don't notice the problem in my daily work. And it doesn't affect anything I do. I can't tell when watching movies. I don't see it in photographs. I only see the difference if I put something of the same color at both the very top and very bottom of the screen. I ran it by my wife and she said yeah I see, but just not a big deal. She rather focused on how the colors pop in photographs on the nice glossy 20" screen.

And again for folks that feel differently there's that 2 week return period. And hell if complain enough, like I can see you're capable of, then you can probably get something done for you from Apple under the 1 yr warranty even. That's my take on it.

 

[AppleFan360]

You're preaching to the choir. No one is saying the panels aren't different and that the 20" isn't worse.

It's a well documented issue going back to when they were first launched. Macworld (in their review last September or August) even said the 20" screens had a noticeably worse viewing angle and had some gradient issues.

The point really is that folks have a 2 wk return period and that imo the issue is a bit overblown. It's just not a big deal for most people it's not all that noticeable. I don't notice the problem in my daily work. And it doesn't affect anything I do. I can't tell when watching movies. I don't see it in photographs. I only see the difference if I put something of the same color at both the very top and very bottom of the screen. I ran it by my wife and she said yeah I see, but just not a big deal. She rather focused on how the colors pop in photographs on the nice glossy 20" screen.

And again for folks that feel differently there's that 2 week return period. And hell if complain enough, like I can see you're capable of, then you can probably get something done for you from Apple under the 1 yr warranty even. That's my take on it.

...and that's a good take which I happen to agree with.

I was in Best Buy yesterday and looked at the 20" and 24" side by side with the same images. The 20" definitely had a lousy viewing angle but when viewed straight on, I barely noticed any difference between the two screens (except the 24" was bigger).

This screen issue is overblown and it's likely the average user won't know or won't care unless they see a thread like this. Of course, I guess that is what Apple is counting on.

 

[czachorski]

Any arugment looks silly if you carry it to the extreme. The extreme of your arguement (Which I am not accusing you of having or taking) is who cares about what size the monitor is, who cares about the clock speed. It's a computer, it works, what's your problem.
This i again say is not at all where I think your position is. I think you should also except that my position is not I want to know exactly how long the power cord is.
I think this is just a disagrrment on the level of disclosure I think on this issue it should be more transparent, you think this level is ok.

Very well put. I will even 1-up my agreement with you: I don't think it would be a bad thing if Apple increased the level of disclosure just a bit. I don't think it would hurt their sales or image much to do so. I also happen to think that the level that they chose to disclose is just fine too - it's their call, either way, as it is for the buyer to do his due diligence - either way.

There's a lot in here I agree with. You have presented your points well - I wish all discussions on this matter could be this cordial. I am only the "defender of the iMac" and feel the need to go toe to toe to battle another opinion when that opinion is stated in very fallacious terms and they bring the unnecessary "if you disagree, then you are a fanboy who drinks the Kool-Aid and follows Jobs like Jim Jones and David Koresh" sentiment. Your position was politely made without resorting to such trolling, and I am fine agreeing to disagree on where that line should reasonably be.

 

[bamo]

My one bit

It seems that there are basically two (maybe three, but…) type of users discussing the matter: the specialists or those who are very knowledgable about Apple and their material; the casual user or those who basically use the computer after buying it without analyzing in depth the item.

I did buy a 20 in. model; in the shop at the University, both machine were shown under what I would call «best conditions»: lightning, distance, angle, simple description (theirs and Apple, essentially pamphlet), etc. That is how many persons do buy a commodity that is fairly known and popular.

But, if after you do make a decision, you notice yourself certain differences (angle of vision) or are pointed to matter like in this thread (bits and pixels and dithering, etc.), then you do get a second thought: should I have invested somewhat more money and get the obvious better model? In my case, the difference would have been a wise investment, as the 24 in model is the BESTBUY. I am 65 years old, and a long time user of Apple material, one reason being their good treatment of linguistics.

My objection to Apple's doing resides in the way they do use the facts, and I agree that many companies are doing the same; but I had the feeling that Apple was different: i started with a MacIntosh 64, up to this iMac, owning most of the significant models in between, such a MacII (one of the best) and even a LISA (ahead of it's time).

Experience has a price.

BAM

 

[Sun Baked]

For the person who would have bought the 17" with the TN panel, the upgrade to 20" is nice.

For the buyer who finds that the low end model was upgraded, and the 20" model they wanted was eliminated -- tough luck, buy a Dell.

 

[quest4apple]

I wonder how many people who have been happy with their 20" imac are now suddenly going to be upset after reading about this law suit. Personally, I think the suit is unfounded, but I certainly am not an attorney

 

[bamo]

Suit?

I wonder how many people who have been happy with their 20" imac are now suddenly going to be upset after reading about this law suit. Personally, I think the suit is unfounded, but I certainly am not an attorney

It is not he lawsuit that is bothering me and others that much, it is essentially Apple's way of doing business (inc. advertizing) in such a manner as to camouflage things in a very subtil way. It should have been clear, crystal clear. In a certain sense, it is similar to appearence of conflict versus conflicts of interest:both are reprehensible.

BAM

 

[trip1ex]

It seems that there are basically two (maybe three, but…) type of users discussing the matter: the specialists or those who are very knowledgable about Apple and their material; the casual user or those who basically use the computer after buying it without analyzing in depth the item.

I did buy a 20 in. model; in the shop at the University, both machine were shown under what I would call «best conditions»: lightning, distance, angle, simple description (theirs and Apple, essentially pamphlet), etc. That is how many persons do buy a commodity that is fairly known and popular.

But, if after you do make a decision, you notice yourself certain differences (angle of vision) or are pointed to matter like in this thread (bits and pixels and dithering, etc.), then you do get a second thought: should I have invested somewhat more money and get the obvious better model? In my case, the difference would have been a wise investment, as the 24 in model is the BESTBUY. I am 65 years old, and a long time user of Apple material, one reason being their good treatment of linguistics.

My objection to Apple's doing resides in the way they do use the facts, and I agree that many companies are doing the same; but I had the feeling that Apple was different: i started with a MacIntosh 64, up to this iMac, owning most of the significant models in between, such a MacII (one of the best) and even a LISA (ahead of it's time).

Experience has a price.

BAM

Yeah I found the opposite. Experience has told me that I was far too worried about small differences in electronics products like this in my late teens and 20s. Experience has told me not to be a spec peeper. Experience has taught me to trust my own 2 eyes and not get caught up in paper spec comparisons and whether or not I might use my monitor while hanging from a trapeze at 70 degrees off center.

Best is a rather vague term too. $10 million is better than $9 million. $10 mil is the best choice out of the two. But hey I'll take the worse choice there any day. That's what experience has taught me.

I'm human though. I have buyer's regret sometimes. A month before I bought my 20" iMac I bought a Macbook. I didn't really that screen so I returned it. I voted with my wallet. And recently I picked up the 20" iMac and rather like it. And so no matter what Apple puts on paper it's really the in-home evaluation that really trumps that. And I take advantage of that 2 week return period.

I don't worry that someone else has a slightly better contrast on the top and bottom or a bigger screen or yada yada yada. On the whole it's a fabulous monitor and computer. Besides new iMac models will most likely be out by the end of the summer.

 

[czachorski]

Yeah I found the opposite. Experience has told me that I was far too worried about small differences in electronics products like this in my late teens and 20s. Experience has told me not to be a spec peeper. Experience has taught me to trust my own 2 eyes and not get caught up in paper spec comparisons and whether or not I might use my monitor while hanging from a trapeze at 70 degrees off center.

Best is a rather vague term too. $10 million is better than $9 million. $10 mil is the best choice out of the two. But hey I'll take the worse choice there any day. That's what experience has taught me.

I'm human though. I have buyer's regret sometimes. A month before I bought my 20" iMac I bought a Macbook. I didn't really that screen so I returned it. I voted with my wallet. And recently I picked up the 20" iMac and rather like it. And so no matter what Apple puts on paper it's really the in-home evaluation that really trumps that. And I take advantage of that 2 week return period.

I don't worry that someone else has a slightly better contrast on the top and bottom or a bigger screen or yada yada yada. On the whole it's a fabulous monitor and computer. Besides new iMac models will most likely be out by the end of the summer.

I am more or less with you, but I admittedly drill down into the spec details more than I should or need to prior to a purchase. What I have definitely noticed is the trend of a decreased level of scrutiny from pre-buy research, to initial use to long-term use. When I first bring something home, every detail gets scrutinized and focused on. A few months later, I could hardly care any more and I just use the product. Knowing that this trend exists in advanced of a purchase and during the initial use period right after buying is a good thing for me to keep in mind.

 

[Simplesimon101]

"Apple sued over missing millions of colours it claims for new iMac"

does this really mean that the imac displays aren't good for photographers? (as i recently sold my old alu 20" to one) i know they're not the best but are they actively bad?

thanks

 

[AlexisV]

They tend to oversaturate colours slightly, but in an attempt to make photos looks better on screen. And it works - they look stunning. The only problem is they aren't as good for colour matching because of the slightly false colour, and the viewing angle issue, which means clear blocks of colour in particular are dark at the top and light at the bottom.

 

[doug in albq]

They tend to oversaturate colours slightly, but in an attempt to make photos looks better on screen. And it works - they look stunning. The only problem is they aren't as good for colour matching because of the slightly false colour, and the viewing angle issue, which means clear blocks of colour in particular are dark at the top and light at the bottom.

not to mention the 2 F-stop difference from the top of the display to the bottom. This is not a joke.

(Unless you want that graduated filter look on every single picture you take!)

 

[Leon Kowalski]

not to mention the 2 F-stop difference from the top of the display to the bottom.

Well, you could always "upgrade" to a 24" ALU -- with a difference
of "only" 1.3 f-stops from the left to the right side of the display.

...a thing of beauty is a joy forever!

LK

 

[doug in albq]

Well, you could always "upgrade" to a 24" ALU -- with a difference
of "only" 1.3 f-stops from the left to the right side of the display.

...a thing of beauty is a joy forever!

LK

I did upgrade...to a dual-display with the S-IPS, HP LP2065. It was less than $300 with the rebate. Now I have a 40 inch work/play space. Imac TN display is now for palettes and movies.

 

[czachorski]

I did upgrade...to a dual-display with the S-IPS, HP LP2065. It was less than $300 with the rebate. Now I have a 40 inch work/play space. Imac TN display is now for palettes and movies.

Man, you are way to nice to Apple, letting them off the hook for that 20" with a bad gradient. Why not insist that they replace it? Going out and getting an external monitor only rewards them for the dud they sent you! Not to mention, it takes up your mini-DVI port for other uses.

Just my thoughts.......

 

[inkswamp]

Hello...

Entry level Mac All-In-One...

Duh...

Hello...

Non-entry level price...

Duh...