Apple 'Tracking Employee Attendance' in Crackdown on Remote Working

[madrigal77]

Not saying Apple is wrong to do this (after all, their corporate culture relies largely on in-person collaboration), but it's always problematic to force people into something they don't want to do. It creates resistance and resentment that corrode culture from within.

I do wonder if paying a bonus for employees who show up at the office would have had a more desirable effect on overall morale...

Really?!?! Having to do things you don’t want is “problematic” now? Adult life is full of things you don’t want to do. If that’s “problematic” then I have no hope for humanity.

 

[bookofxero]

Just look at the profiles of all the pro-WFH commenters in this thread. They all simultaneously complain non stop about the increasing amount of software bugs and hardware issues and then also say we need MORE WFH. Talk about heads in the sand?

Id actually bet many of themselves are WFH and are posting our of their own fears as what's coming for them?

Im on Apples side on this one only because I fear the damage WFH has already done to the economy and life, will become irreversible.

You mean the record profits and increased productivity and general employee happiness? OK, Taylor.

 

[bookofxero]

The fear of COVID destroyed so much. Personally, my workplace NEVER closed down and remote work was never offered, even though the infrastructure was there "just in case." I hate it that people are living in so much fear. The new normal, I guess.

“So much fear” of having a healthy work/life balance and being able to work in a way that is best for them? Yeah, employers should get over it.

 

[Mr. Dee]

Not saying Apple is wrong to do this (after all, their corporate culture relies largely on in-person collaboration), but it's always problematic to force people into something they don't want to do. It creates resistance and resentment that corrode culture from within.

I do wonder if paying a bonus for employees who show up at the office would have had a more desirable effect on overall morale...

They are getting more than enough already. If they don't want to return to the office, its their right, find another job and Apple can either find someone who will do it or just don't fill that position. Everybody wins. But I am sure many don't want to give up that 175k and stock bonus either. #restvest

 

[bookofxero]

Clearly, they are required to be in the office 3 days a week, so I would suggest yes.

Those may be true, but until I took early retirement (during covid) I was far far more productive at work. Ever heard of a police officer working from home?

Sure some things can be done at home (Apple says 40%) but creative pursuits are best done with other creatives. And that is the entire point of the spaceship. So they should just suck it up and be the employees they are paid to be. If they have to clock in, then big deal. What are they trying to prove in making this political?

No, they are not best done in person. That is a neurotypical, extroverted bias showing through.

 

[bookofxero]

Agreed with working without interruptions, but there is a grey area here. If you are a tech lead or above, I think it’s expected to handle interruptions.

I think people generally need to manage both up and down. If your manager doesn’t feel you are as effective wfh vs in office, there may be an issue managing up. There is also another grey area here where some folks feel they are very productive at wfh when they really aren’t. Not saying that it applies to everyone, but I think the situation is anything but binary

If only there were objective data… imagine something like that in the world.

 

[bookofxero]

5,500 (70%)
18,000 from Amazon
12,000 from Alphabet
10,000 from Meta
10,000 from Microsoft
6,650 from Dell
3,000 from Github
1,600 from Yahoo
0 from Apple. That might rise with all the namby-pamby lazies who want to work in their pajamas.

What do you care if they work in pajamas or latex or in their underwear?

 

[bookofxero]

How upset weird boomers get at the concept of remote work in these threads will never cease to amuse me. My last startup raised millions of dollars, built a product, and sold to one of the largest companies in the world with a globally distributed 100% remote work team that met in person one (1) time. These claims that remote work are bad, or somehow limits productivity are truly laughable.

Anecdotes aside, the data is there to show that this is not an isolated situation.

 

[Mousse]

If people were honest, you’d be right.

But there HAS to be sick time, because many would abuse their employer’s policy and call in sick when they don’t feel like working.

IDK. I consider mental health a real health issue. If your head ain't in the game, it tends to leads to a lot of mistakes that you--or someone else--will have to fix later on. When I'm in the zone, I can do a day's workload in 2 or 3 hours. But if I out of it, it could take me 3 or more days of trudging just to get a day's workload done. Chances are, it would be riddled with mistake too.

 

[bookofxero]

Pretty much what I do now.

Waiting for the

IDK. I consider mental health a real health issue. If your head ain't in the game, it tends to leads to a lot of mistakes that you--or someone else--will have to fix later on. When I'm in the zone, I can do a day's workload in 2 or 3 hours. But if I out of it, it could take me 3 or more days of trudging just to get a day's workload done. Chances are, it would be riddled with mistake too.

Plus commute time and its deleterious effects on mental health, increases in auto accidents, etc. I see a lot of the “old man yells at cloud” meme from Weberian Taylorists here who are willfully ignorant of the data clearly showing their assumptions are false.

 

[contacos]

If people were honest, you’d be right.

But there HAS to be sick time, because many would abuse their employer’s policy and call in sick when they don’t feel like working.

That’s why you need to go see a doctor and drop an official note at HR here. However, companies don’t really seem to care since most don’t even ask for a note if you are sick only 2 days

 

[macsound1]

Waiting for the

Plus commute time and its deleterious effects on mental health, increases in auto accidents, etc. I see a lot of the “old man yells at cloud” meme from Weberian Taylorists here who are willfully ignorant of the data clearly showing their assumptions are false.

And like in many large companies, not only is it morning and evening commute, but also midday commuting on shuttles from one building to another to attend meetings.
I’m honestly not sure how anyone gets any work done when it takes you 15 minutes to get to and from every meeting.

 

[I7guy]

Waiting for the

Plus commute time and its deleterious effects on mental health, increases in auto accidents, etc. I see a lot of the “old man yells at cloud” meme from Weberian Taylorists here who are willfully ignorant of the data clearly showing their assumptions are false.

Maybe working at apple isnt for everybody and those who don’t like the employment stipulations can resign. Either that or change their POV that they are now lucky to have a job. The unthinkable has happened after lockdown and an excess of tech workers exist.

 

[spercharged69]

And like in many large companies, not only is it morning and evening commute, but also midday commuting on shuttles from one building to another to attend meetings.
I’m honestly not sure how anyone gets any work done when it takes you 15 minutes to get to and from every meeting.

They don't, but the important part is they look very busy and appearance is everything.

 

[rjp1]

Requiring employees back in the office is an easy way to get people to quit and avoid having to fire them. This is a no brainer to try to avoid costly layoffs.

 

[jazz1]

I can't believe someone hasn't beaten me to this visual trope! Seriously I do suppose some employees might not be playing fair. I assume the higher ups are exempt from reporting.

 

[LeahJoFoxtrot]

Look, I feel like I'm going to get laughed at with this post but for the long twenty or so years that I've been working as a professional software developer, I've had really bad anxiety. I also have ADHD. At home, I do even more work than I would in the office because I am in my comfortable home with no one around. I live alone. I can take my ADHD meds in the morning and dive into code, task switch easy to remote meetings where I have little problem paying attention, and have productive pairing with my colleagues over MS Teams.

Fortunately I have an amazingly kind boss that appreciates the hard work I put into my job and has the understanding to know where I work my best. I could understand if I slacked off but I'm not, and I'm sure many of the Apple employees being asked to come back in the office aren't either.

 

[darkus]

even if that were accurate (and i doubt it is), you seem to have evidence to support that bugs and issues are linked to where people work from? can you share that evidence?

I'll get right on that for you, anything else I can do to make your life easier? I mean talk about entitled.... 😂

 

[darkus]

You mean the record profits and increased productivity and general employee happiness? OK, Taylor.

Lets just be clear here, you are FOR or AGAINST a trillion dollar company having even higher record profits? 😂

 

[MacDaddyPanda]

I can't believe someone hasn't beaten me to this visual trope! Seriously I do suppose some employees might not be playing fair. I assume the higher ups are exempt from reporting.

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lol, 1984 happens later. in the 21st century. Not the 20th.

 

[chenks]

I'll get right on that for you, anything else I can do to make your life easier? I mean talk about entitled.... 😂

well you're the one spouting "facts". let's see the evidence to back up your talk.

 

[I7guy]

well you're the one spouting "facts". let's see the evidence to back up your talk.

It sounded more like a postulate linking cause and effect…ie more bugs are caused wfh from lockdown.

 

[darkus]

well you're the one spouting "facts". let's see the evidence to back up your talk.

Which "fact" did I "spout"? Might want to re-read my post. You do seem to be projecting your own fears into other peoples words, somewhat validating my opinion.... I'll just leave that there

 

[PinkyMacGodess]

How upset weird boomers get at the concept of remote work in these threads will never cease to amuse me. My last startup raised millions of dollars, built a product, and sold to one of the largest companies in the world with a globally distributed 100% remote work team that met in person one (1) time. These claims that remote work are bad, or somehow limits productivity are truly laughable.

If it wasn't for remote access, I couldn't bill two clients at once. I joke, slightly. Plus weekends, and evenings (back when people ran second and third shifts) I could often fix things without going to their site. It's a niche example, but I could do all kinds of things from almost literally anywhere on the planet! Reboot servers, install updates, reset passwords, etc... Remote access is a godsend. Remote meetings and actually remote tech support is time saving and a blessing (if I'm there to supervise. One vendor had someone remote in to one of our clients servers and they broke the software. It was done on a weekend too, with no advanced notice. Suspicious for sure, and I believe the tech was eventually fired. It took a few hours to get them back up and running. Double edge sword)

But 'remote working' is phenomenal. I could have worked from home decades ago when I was a programmer. Instead I had to wear a suit and tie (never saw clients, which got easier over the years, but good grief). I was a cubicle 'gopher' mushroom. That work could have been done anywhere, and was by some lucky few. *sigh*

 

[michael31986]

Apple has plenty of data on working from home after multiple years of having the majority of their corporate and engineering workforce do so. Clearly they aren't happy. The message here is clear... want to work for Apple? Time to come to work, in person, at the multi-billion dollar headquarters with fancy cafeteria, massive gym, nature preserve in the middle and more. What suffering!

I do agree with this part I mean they have a lot of amentities.