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That can go both ways.

Show me an Apple TV that lets me use Vudu, Amazon, BlockBuster and supports DLNA.

If these are the things you want to do - then the Apple TV isn't for you. Apple is never going to add functionality for these types of things, so unless we get an Apple TV app store, it's not going to happen.

The Apple TV is designed first and foremost to stream files from the iTunes Store and from iTunes. If you want to work with files from other sources, you need to look at another device...
 
I already have a PS3 that does most of what I need. I got an Atv2 mainly for Airpay and iTunes (using the Remote software). I keep a mini on all the time, so it is not a problem to run iTunes. For $99 (actually I got it as a present, but I would have bought it) I am happy with it. They priced it right, and with the Internet shows (Cnet, photography, etc..) and Netflix, I think it offers great bang for the buck.

You can do many of the same things by cabling you iPhone or iPad to you system, but I much prefer the Airplay approach.
 
Read your review (unlike others that might slam you without reading it through first...) Some may call you a troll as a newbie here... but your bias does come through.

A newbie? That wouldn't be accurate. I've been using Macs for about 17 years. As for bias... maybe the bias is that I like to see Apple succeed. Apple TV seems like a missed opportunity and has been so for years.

Last holiday season, I went to an Apple store to look for the Apple TV. I had trouble finding it. The first time I looked for it, I couldn't find it. I thought it was sold out. The second time I found it. The little Apple TV was hidden off to the side. It's like Apple's not serious about this thing.

So, the selling points are... babies that might smash electronics or users with huge iTunes libraries might find it useful. That's not exactly something that looks like a nice bullet-point on the box.

  • Your baby probably won't break it.
  • Buy more videos on iTunes!

One of the huge reasons to get an iPhone... APPS. The biggest action in the iTunes App Store... GAMES. This isn't rocket science. Even if people aren't interested in games, it can help move hardware. If more people are using the hardware, the more cool things that can be done with it.

Maybe people are missing what I wrote... I wanted to buy the Apple TV. I thought it would make a great gift. Yet, it wasn't appropriate for anyone I knew. They didn't want it and/or didn't understand it.

No. Show me a Blu-Ray player that lets me stream my iTunes media, does NetFlix, YouTube, supports movie and TV show rentals, and supports AirPlay. Oh.. right, there are none.

The PlayStation 3 is pretty close. Unmodified, it can do Blu-Ray, Netflix, YouTube and TV/Movies are in the PlayStation store.

As for AirPlay / iTunes, I'm not sure. There might be a mod for that. I think a friend of mine mentioned that he was streaming stuff from his computer to his PS3.

Also, I'm thinking a PC could do all of that stuff. Maybe not AirPlay, but I'm thinking there's probably something similar on the Windows side.

That's the way I look at the Apple TV. If I want a Netflix player, I can use a $30 cable and an iPhone. I can sit this one out until Apple makes the Apple TV more interesting. If I want a full-featured TV companion, I can get another PS3, or an XBOX 360.

I think Apple blew it this round - unless the goal was to build a foundation first and then introduce apps the following year. That's why I didn't buy the 2010 Apple TV. It seems like a placeholder for something cooler in the future.

If the Apple TV could run iOS apps, I think that would be amazing.
 
Also, I'm thinking a PC could do all of that stuff. Maybe not AirPlay, but I'm thinking there's probably something similar on the Windows side.

How does a "PC" even come into this conversation?? Other than a small group of hard-core geeks - the market has shown that people have zero interest in connecting computers to their TVs. Apple TV is a tiny, silent $99 device that draws zero power. Which is why I have 3 of them. I do not want a loud power-sucking windows-infested "peecee" as a replacement! ;)

That's the way I look at the Apple TV. If I want a Netflix player, I can use a $30 cable and an iPhone.

Yikes. Why bother with cables and tie up your phone, when I can have an always-on low-cost device, which gives me immediate access to NetFlix and my own media.

I think Apple blew it this round - unless the goal was to build a foundation first and then introduce apps the following year.

Yeah, they really blew it. That's why Apple TV's were widely sold out when they went on sale, and sold a million units a few months since the introduction! Apple TV will never satisfy people who want "everything and a kitchensink".. But it's been a huge success in a general marketplace.
 
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I don't have all the latest and greatest apple products. I am an average person, with a computer that runs Itunes, for my ipod. I don't have an Iphone, Ipad, Ipod touch. Connecting my comp to my tv, has problems as the babys/kids/animals get into it a lot. But I can hook up my ATV to my tv, watch my itunes stuff on my big screen tv. Cool. What I can put my home movies on my big screen, really Cool. I can put my dvd collection on my comp and watch them without haveing to change disks, and put tthe kids dvds on the comp without them getting thrashed wow how did I get by with out this. What I may be able to watch internet videos on my big screen now I am hooked. What else does apple make that can change my life and make it so much better.
They label it as a hobby but it is more like a gateway drug into a world of euphoria that is mac usage over windows. Like the Ipod to mobile music, it is going to make apple into a real player in the big screen. I have read many post on other sites that talk about being hard core PC users that have surrounded themselves with the latest and greatest mac products. The high end PC with many Ipods they have bought to get the latest and greatest, then the Iphone, then the Ipad and finally the ATV. Some even have gone somuch to call themselve a mac fan boy and even, gasp, buy an mac.
Can the Atv be more? You bet it can, it can do so much more, but why rush into it, the average users have to be introduced to it. Make it easy, make it fun and make it relevant. We the users are doing most of the advertising for apple. Every time I have someone over and they see how it works, what it can do and why I use it, they go and buy one for themselves. There friends see it and they want it. At a price of 99 dollars in the US it will not break the bank.
The people at Apple are not stupid, they have got to this postion through a lot of trial and error. They have put out a stratigic plan that is aimed at the not so techy people, that is were the money is. We will see a lot more from the atv when we get more people using it. I am about to introduce my parents and my inlaws to the world of Atv, and they will love it because it is clean and simple and if my father and law can use it, anyone can use it. That is going to be my litmus test on the atv and how it will do in the future. So Atv three, yes, this year maybe, app store, yes, all the features we the techy people want, NO. We want it all, including the stuff we can,t think of but expect it to be availble. Apple follows the Ford experience, when asked why Henry Ford made the car, he said, "If I would have asked the customers what they wanted, they would have asked for a faster horse." Apple has been giving us stuff we can not even think about, but can't live without when it is here.
Sorry it is long but I have been hearing the same things about the atv for a while and I have even heard the words come out of my mouth. Apple is going after a bigger share of the market than just the heavy computer user.
 
How does a "PC" even come into this conversation?? Other than a small group of hard-core geeks - the market has shown that people have zero interest in connecting computers to their TVs.

An HDMI port is becoming a standard option on most new computers and laptops. I was using a laptop before I used my iPhone. Phone to TV is becoming a common feature on Android phones too.

Yikes. Why bother with cables and tie up your phone, when I can have an always-on low-cost device, which gives me immediate access to NetFlix and my own media.

  1. I don't like throwing out computer hardware. I feel the Apple TV is like the first generation iPhone, destined for obsolescence.
  2. When watching a good movie, I think it's a good idea to eliminate distractions... that means not playing with your phone. This makes for a more dramatic movie viewing experience.
  3. It's cheaper!

Maybe these reasons are not terribly compelling to you. Yet, I was also curious to see if the component cable would work. From what I've read, jailbreaking an iPhone will make the video out less restrictive. Basically... it turns an iPhone to a game console.

The oddities...

  • Apple sells the $30 component cable for $50.
  • Apple restricts what the iPhone screen can display.
  • A Jailbroken iPhone can work as a game console
  • The Apple TV doesn't have an app store

I haven't jailbroken my iPhone. Although, it is legal. So, while the $30 cable may seem cumbersome to you, it actually allows a lot of advanced features for those who do jailbreak their iOS device...

  • Video Capture - excellent for game developers making videos of their games
  • Game Console - There are interesting solutions to the controller issue.
  • I think it's a better than an Apple TV

But it's been a huge success in a general marketplace.

I think it could be bigger.

The 2010 Apple TV basically runs on iOS. This isn't a huge stretch. Why did Apple stop short? When I think about Microsoft, how they had a successful Christmas season with the Kinect, why did Apple release a mediocre device? I don't know the answer. Heh... maybe memories of the Pippin makes Apple hesitate to reenter the console market.
 
An HDMI port is becoming a standard option on most new computers and laptops.

The physical Video out port is the least of the problem. It's all the other things I mentioned - space, power consumption, noise, and just a general ugliness of connecting a PC to a TV.. Which is why the market place generally rejected this model, and we see dedicated small form-factor media appliances (Apple TV, Roku, etc) become so popular.

Phone to TV is becoming a common feature on Android phones too.
[...]
It's cheaper!

You can probably fetch more than $99 for your previous-gen iPhone on eBay, which will easily cover your Apple TV and then some. So there goes your "cheaper" argument.

I think you and I have different priorities in home media center. It sounds like you like to tinker and experiment with things, which is cool. In my case - I like my whole family to be able to easily use my home media setup, which is exactly what Apple TV gives me. My 4 year old can easily navigate Apple TV and select content to play. Good luck doing getting anywhere near that with an HDMI-attached smartphone or a computer!

The 2010 Apple TV basically runs on iOS. This isn't a huge stretch. Why did Apple stop short?

Because that's what Apple does. They release technology in phases, and add features when the platform reaches certain footprint.. And they're confident they can deliver the next wave of features in a rock-solid and successful package. Contract that with other vendors that just push out half-baked products and hope that something sticks (Google TV is a case in point). Just relax and wait a bit - App Store for Apple TV is coming, and that's when Apple TV will truly leave the competition in the dust.
 
You can probably fetch more than $99 for your previous-gen iPhone on eBay, which will easily cover your Apple TV and then some. So there goes your "cheaper" argument.

I have an iPhone 4. I don't have a first generation iPhone. I was comparing the Apple TV to the first generation iPhone.

Just relax and wait a bit - App Store for Apple TV is coming, and that's when Apple TV will truly leave the competition in the dust.

Heh, I am waiting. I'm not relaxed about it though. I suspect that an App Store for the Apple TV will be released eventually, maybe late this year. Will the App Store be retroactive though? Will the 2010 Apple TV be strong enough to run it - will it run it at all? I don't know. There's too much uncertainty about the future of this gadget. That's why I'm waiting. I'd rather wait it out with the $30 cable and then buy a newer Apple TV when the Apple TV App Store is ready.
 
That can go both ways.

Show me an Apple TV that lets me use Vudu, Amazon, BlockBuster and supports DLNA.

Why the heck would someone prefer to use DLNA over Airplay?

How does a "PC" even come into this conversation?? Other than a small group of hard-core geeks - the market has shown that people have zero interest in connecting computers to their TVs. Apple TV is a tiny, silent $99 device that draws zero power. Which is why I have 3 of them. I do not want a loud power-sucking windows-infested "peecee" as a replacement! ;)



Yikes. Why bother with cables and tie up your phone, when I can have an always-on low-cost device, which gives me immediate access to NetFlix and my own media.



Yeah, they really blew it. That's why Apple TV's were widely sold out when they went on sale, and sold a million units a few months since the introduction! Apple TV will never satisfy people who want "everything and a kitchensink".. But it's been a huge success in a general marketplace.

Not to mention, using a component cable from your iPhone you can only get up to standard definition 480p. Whereas with Airplay, the quality isn't reduced and you get 720p HD. It's like an HDMI cable only much better because your device isn't tied up and you can control playback and browse content using multitouch as well as multitask while the video is playing. Especially when using the iPad, there isn't a single media experience better than that on the market today.

I don't think the OP realizes just how well these things have been selling. Apple sold over a million of these ATV2 devices in less than 3 months. To put that in perspective, Roku (the 2nd best selling dedicated media streamer) only just crossed the million mark for the entire history of them selling all of their different Roku devices. It took Apple 3 months with one device what it took Roku 3 years to do for all their devices. This is almost like how nobody was selling tablets in good volume until the iPad was released. That 1 million in sales over 3 months is very impressive for this category of product and probably why Apple is supporting it very well with regular updates.

And it's only $99 bucks. What's the point of holding out for the newest model? There will always be something newer coming out and if you're really that worried about a tech device this cheap, you could probably sell it on ebay for $75 by the time the next one comes out. So you still lost money on your $30 cable. :D :p

Besides, if a new one does come out it probably won't be until the annual September iPod event. I don't think it's worth missing out on all it has to offer because you're wondering if something better is coming out over half a year away at the earliest for such a low priced device. A $1000 computer I could understand, but this thing is just $99 bucks.
 
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And most people have 2 tvs or more. Get an apple tv 2 for your living room and when the next gen comes out get it for the living room and put the atv2 on a different tv. And if you only have one tv then use it to take to other peoples houses that don't have atv and play your media on there tvs.
 
It does exactly what it is supposed to do: give slow adopters a reason to buy one, driving more customers to the iTunes store. At that, it's been a roaring success.

What happened to insanely great?! I thought Apple was about making great products. I see the 2010 Apple TV as a mediocre product. There are already plenty of ways to waste money on TV shows and Movies.

Not to mention, using a component cable from your iPhone you can only get up to standard definition 480p.

Maybe you're confusing component with composite. The component cable is a high-definition cable. I didn't count the pixels, but the picture quality looked rather sharp.

I'm curious about this. I'm going to go test it on another TV. My Sony TV lets me know what resolution the screen is displayed at.
 
Wow... I just tested it with Netflix. The screen's at 480P.

On the bright-side, now I'm watching Robocop. :p
 
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Wow... I just tested it with Netflix. The screen's at 480P.

On the bright-side, now I'm watching Robocop. :p

Only some of Netflix content is HD. When you select the movie or show to see the details, the HD logo will appear below the description if it is available in HD, which will automatically be played. This is a netflix restriction, not Apple. Either way, I find the picture more than acceptable on my 47" LCD tv in both 480p and 720p. :D
 
True, my tv does have all that stuff...but if you want your iTunes content in the living room without having your computer there, ATV2 is a WAY better deal than buying the identically priced AirPort Express base station. Plus it adds the Apple Store videos into that mix...although Amazon OnDemand and VUDU (vudu has 1080p video rentals) are way better.

Anyway, for me, at $99 in the US, it was a good deal.

Exactly!

Regardless of limitation of ATV2, when you are trying to make a decision of either another Airport Express to port music--or an ATV--it makes not sense to get the Express if the receiver also handles your HT as it does in my case. Even if I never use it for video, at least I know I can--and in the meantime it will deliver my digital audio for the same price as an Express. I just ordered my ATV from Amazon today. :)
 
What happened to insanely great?! I thought Apple was about making great products. I see the 2010 Apple TV as a mediocre product. There are already plenty of ways to waste money on TV shows and Movies.

I don't agree with much of what you've been saying here but you know what, you're right about one thing, this is a mediocre product. Steve Jobs probably wouldn't tell you that but he knows it. There was a good interview with him last year concerning all these streaming devices and he highlighted the complications there are with them. He said Google TV wasn't going to sell and he was right. He didn't want to throw a bunch of R&D towards a device that would cost $300 and have it fail because although it could do great things, people aren't interested in spending that much money on a media center right now. They didn't set out to blow peoples minds with the ultimate home media device ... yet. Obviously, or they would have started by shipping it with a processor capable of handling flawless 1080p. But, the iTunes store doesn't stream 1080p yet so we probably won't see that happeneing until it does. I bought a 1st Gen Apple TV early on and I still love it to this day. I wish it didn't cost me $250 at the time but it works great. It now resides in the kids play room and my three year old has NO problem finding Wall-E. Is the Apple TV worth $100? Hmm, maybe. The specs say no (versus other streamers) but the UI and ease of use make up for that in my opinion.

You want to talk about missed oportunities then I'd have to say the PS3 is a big one. I bought one of those to try out as a media center. Ughhh, no thanks. It's got all the muscle to do whatever you want but no MKV support (PS3 Media Streamer never worked right for me) and the UI is lame (I hate the drill down folders). I could go on but those we're the biggest issues I had. It now sits in my bedroom as an overpriced Netflix player that sees an occasional game of FIFA Soccer ;)

When the Apple TV can do 1080p (not choppy hacked XBMC 1080p) that's when I'll jump back on board. Until then I've got my Mac Mini Plex machine and I'm going to keep my eye on the Boxee Box. Hopefully they'll get all the issues worked out because that seems like the total package at an affordable price.
 
What happened to insanely great?! I thought Apple was about making great products. I see the 2010 Apple TV as a mediocre product. There are already plenty of ways to waste money on TV shows and Movies.



Maybe you're confusing component with composite. The component cable is a high-definition cable. I didn't count the pixels, but the picture quality looked rather sharp.

I'm curious about this. I'm going to go test it on another TV. My Sony TV lets me know what resolution the screen is displayed at.

No, I am not confusing anything. I know component supports HD resolutions but you aren't going to get that from your iPhone with the Component cable.

With component you are limited to 480p and with composite you are limited to 480i. The Apple TV2 on the other hand gets you 720p HD. Huge difference.
 
I saw an interesting article about Apple...

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/The-Zen-Buddhist-Trick-That-siliconalley-3780714768.html

Some of the biggest problems I have with Apple is the stuff they leave out...

  • First iMac - No floppy, SCSI or ADP Port
  • Mac Mouse - No right click (I really like the new MacBook Pro with the right-click)
  • Apple TV - No Apps
  • iPhone - No Hardware Keyboard

Yet, it seems like these decisions are intentional. It doesn't make sense to me how less is somehow more.
  • I switched to PC when the iMac was originally released
  • I have a right-click mouse connected to my Mac.
  • I don't own an Apple TV
  • I can get a hardware keyboard for my iPhone 4

And yet, this thread is filled with lots of support for Apple TV. OK, so my $30 cable idea is not that popular. For those not into such a cumbersome alternative... Roku is $59.99-$99.99. It's not that much different than an Apple TV. Apple's device just doesn't seem that competitive to me.

Yet, maybe it's just Apple's slow and simple approach again. If the Apple TV progresses like the iPhone and the iPod, maybe I'll like it in a few years.
 
Are you a troll or just super dull?

Floppy died a long time ago. Apple knew it was going. Why stick with it? I suppose you'd like it on a 2010 MBA?

Oh on. No right click. So? If that's such a big deal, stick with Windows. You can still right click anyway if you wish to set it up that way.

App Store? Patience.

The best touchscreen available and you want to add on a bulky keyboard? Take away half the screen? I'm glad you don't have to make these decisions.

There was nothing wrong with the original iPhone. It lacked features that todays iPhone 4 has that's obvious. But so did every phone back then. Maybe Apple should have released with iPhone with dual cameras, video, retina display, App Store etc etc.

Some people aren't cheap. A $30 cable that you have to plug in everytime is annoying. Yes, it might cut down on distractions but when about when it rings and it's an important call? Then what? Answer it on your knees because it's still connected to the tv? Awesome.

Things progress. Apple know exactly what they're doing.

I don't think AppleTv will get a conventional App Store. There will be Apps that you buy on your iPhone/iPad/Touch and it connects to the AppleTv via AirPlay. This has already been done by people and it works well. There is currently no space to store Apps on the AppleTv anyway.
 
But, the iTunes store doesn't stream 1080p yet so we probably won't see that happeneing until it does.

I'm generally with much of what you said. However, this particular point gets thrown around too much. The owners of the content won't bother trying to put 1080p in the iTunes store until there is an opportunity to profit from it being there. They could put everything they got up in 1080p today (1080p video will go right into iTunes and play back from there just fine), but sales/rentals of that content would be near ZERO. Why? There's no 1080p :apple:TV hardware installed in any homes capable of playing it back.

The HARDWARE must lead this race, meaning Apple needs to get generation 3+ flowing into homes with the capability of 1080p playback so that the numbers build up large enough to tempt some studio to want to test the profitability of content >720p/30fps. In theory, it should be cheaper for the Studios to sell their content in a digital form rather than putting it on a disc and giving Walmart or Best Buy a big cut. Thus, they should be naturally motivated by their own greed (and we pretty much always see them as too greedy don't we) to give this a go. However, Apple is not feeding that greed with any fundamental opportunity: how could any studio make big profits from 1080p iTunes store content today?

Imagine stores full of BD discs but no players on which to play them. How many discs would sell? Besides, it would make little to no sense to fill those stores with BD discs if there were no players on which to play them. This is exactly the same: the hardware must either come first or arrive at the same time as the 1080p software. It can't work the other way.

When the Apple TV can do 1080p (not choppy hacked XBMC 1080p) that's when I'll jump back on board.
That's where I am too (still using the first generation). The cheerleaders will probably come back with "but the bandwidth", "but the storage", "the chart", and the rest of the usual assortment of why we should like the current offering exactly as Apple wants us/them to like it, but the fact is that if this is Apple's answer to the "bag of hurt", it should compete head-to-head on the most fundamental benefits: picture & sound quality... and it fails on those points BY DESIGN.

And before someone pitches "no (legal) sources are available", I've had several 1080HD camcorders for several years now. Apple even provides the tools (even iMovie) to edit & render a 1080 movie, which will go right into iTunes and play just fine there. The weak link is this one- how to get that 1080HD movie from iTunes to the HDTV in some family-friendly way. :apple:TV should be the obvious solution. But it fails us here.

No streaming sources available? Visit Vudu.com (apparently they have found a way to stream 1080p, through our crappy bandwidth, for playback on <$99 HD set top boxes). Apparently, they see enough business from people that don't accept "the chart" and instead want 1080p (in spite of "not being able to see any difference").

It would have cost much more? No, there's lots of other little :apple:TV-like boxes available for $99 and less. See Roku for example. Apple could have put 1080p hardware in there if they wanted to do so. Besides, I think those of us that wish for an :apple:TV with 1080p would probably gladly pay more than $99 for :apple:TV elegance (and iTunes connectivity) on 1080p hardware. Personally, I wish the previous gen's final software version would add Netflix and be made available as the new "Front Row". Then I'd just pay MUCH MORE for a Mac Mini and let it take over this job.

But "I" don't want to pay/waste bandwidth/store 1080p content? No problem, those who don't want to pay/waste bandwidth/store 720p still generally have the option to download SD video alternatives. For those that find SD good enough, they get a smaller file, that will eat less bandwidth and stores in less space on their end. No difference here: don't want the 1080 file? No problem: choose the 720p "as is" file or the SD alternatives. EVERYONE would get what they want this way.

Maybe they'll get it completely right in the third (hardware) try... hopefully not another 2-4 years from now? Else, the "bag of hurt" continues to be king (and rapidly grow) for those that want better than 720p30fps.
 
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Floppy died a long time ago. Apple knew it was going. Why stick with it? I suppose you'd like it on a 2010 MBA?

Today, obviously Floppy disks are a relic, as are SCSI scanners, QuickCams and Jaz Drives. But back then, to upgrade my computer I had to abandon hundreds of dollars in hardware. Yes, the stuff is way obsolete these days. But in the late '90s it was still very useful to me. If I had to start from scratch, I decided it was cheaper to switch to Windows... where it was easy to find cheap hardware, good software and lots of great games.

Oh on. No right click. So? If that's such a big deal, stick with Windows. You can still right click anyway if you wish to set it up that way.

Perhaps you're missing the point. I started liking Macs again when Right-Click hardware became standard with the Mac Book Pro. I was really impressed with the trackpad. At first I wondered... where are the buttons? Then I realized... IT IS THE BUTTON! It was a great improvement. With all those ninja-like gestures, it was even better — true innovation.

It was the first time I bought a Mac in over a decade. I ultimately returned it and picked up a Mac Mini, but seeing such progress is why I started liking Apple again.

Looking back at the original iMac, I think it's a hideous looking computer — with the hockey puck mouse and fish-tank design. Yet, the iMac eventually progressed into something more attractive and professional. The new iMac, while not my favorite, is a nice looking computer.

How does an Apple TV improve anything? Making it easier to spend money on movies really isn't an improvement to me. Apple TV is not much different than a Roku box... which is the same price or cheaper than an Apple TV.

A $30 cable that you have to plug in everytime is annoying. Yes, it might cut down on distractions but when about when it rings and it's an important call? Then what?

Actually, the cable stays connected to the TV. I simply walk over to the TV and connect the iPhone. It's no more difficult than connecting an iOS device to iTunes. The wire is nice and hidden, but easy to get to if I need it.

If it's an important phone call that interrupts my movie, I should probably pause the movie anyway. Heh, it's the unimportant text messages that are the problem.

I don't think the $30 cable is a suitable replacement for everyone. I decided to go with a $30 cable instead of an Apple TV because I'm waiting to see what happens. If the Apple TV matures into something useful, I can pick that up. If not, the XBOX 360 and a Kinect seems like more fun. It's a good Netflix player and a great entertainment package.
 
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