Apple TV sized Mac Mini?

[brucewayne]

The apple tv already runs on an A15 with 4gb RAM and 64GB of storage and other A15 models like the iPhone Pro have more ram and storage. There is plenty of space on the rear to accommodate 2 usb-c connections if the hdmi port were vertical.

It already is a computer that would be PLENTY for 90% of user tasks. Apple would never ever build it though because it would cut into mini sales.

 

[Siliconguy]

I had a Gigabyte Brix Pro. (i5-4570-R processor) It was smaller than a mini, but taller, and it had an external power supply which is just fine with me. I bought it in 2014, and it died of overheating last year. It only had 4 USB ports which was seriously limiting.

I originally ran it as a hackintosh, but the USB ports were not reliable, then changes at work necessitated going to Windows 7 which mutated to Windows 10.

There isn't all that much extra internal space in a mini if you want an internal power supply. And remember the power supply has to handle the maximum power demand from the USB and Thunderbolt ports as well as the CPU.

 

[cupcakes2000]

No. Where would you put the thunderbolt/USB ports on a Mac Mini -- and the cooling (as in none). No way I'd EVER buy one.

Never seen a raspberry pi or what? It’s perfectly possible, and fairly desirable for some. I would love to see a mini built into a keyboard, for example.

 

[bobcomer]

According to this ( https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2008/11/apple-may-turn-to-carbon-fiber-for-the-airs-lower-case/ ) iFixit estimated that replacing the aluminum lower case on a 2008 Air with carbon fiber would save 1/4 lb.

We don't know why Apple hasn't done this on their current laptops, but this could be part of it: A lot of the their heat dissipation is through the case, and a carbon fiber/resin mix has a much lower thermal conductivity than aluminum.

It's a start, but I want lighter still.

I wouldn't be surprised that the aluminum casing isn't part of the cooling design, but it really doesn't have to be. My Windows laptop (Lenovo Thinkpad X13), is lighter and runs a processor that's hotter with no problems. I don't even ever hear the fan though it does get a tad warm.

 

[bobcomer]

Never seen a raspberry pi or what?

I have, we have a few where I work. Dedicated display devices mostly. But they do require a fan in our hot environment and I wouldn't want to use one as a general purpose computer -- too slow.

I would love to see a mini built into a keyboard, for example.

I would like that as well!

 

[Jumpthesnark]

Could they pack a Mac Mini into something the size of an Apple TV? I would buy one.

So just to be clear, is it the size of the Mini that's keeping you from buying one? You like its capabilities and features but not its form factor?

No sarcasm intended, I'm honestly asking this.

 

[cupcakes2000]

I have, we have a few where I work. Dedicated display devices mostly. But they do require a fan in our hot environment and I wouldn't want to use one as a general purpose computer -- too slow.

I would like that as well!

Apple tv has a fan, so it’s possible. With an m1 it certainly would run rings around a pi. I like the idea myself. I use my mini 2018 plus Luna display plus iPad as a kind of makeshift portable mac quite often. Would be better if the mini was more mini in this case. The pi shows it’s possible to add Ethernet and multiple usbc-a ports on the form factor too.

 

[bobcomer]

Apple tv has a fan, so it’s possible.

Not the latest version, it's fanless... And it does get hot.

 

[257Loner]

Never seen a raspberry pi or what? It’s perfectly possible, and fairly desirable for some. I would love to see a mini built into a keyboard, for example.

But then you'd be stuck with a modern Apple keyboard. 🤢

 

[PlainBelliedSneetch]

According to this ( https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2008/11/apple-may-turn-to-carbon-fiber-for-the-airs-lower-case/ ) iFixit estimated that replacing the aluminum lower case on a 2008 Air with carbon fiber would save 1/4 lb.

We don't know why Apple hasn't done this on their current laptops, but this could be part of it: A lot of the their heat dissipation is through the case, and a carbon fiber/resin mix has a much lower thermal conductivity than aluminum.

Also, can carbon fiber be recycled as easily as aluminum?

 

[Night Spring]

So just to be clear, is it the size of the Mini that's keeping you from buying one? You like its capabilities and features but not its form factor?

No sarcasm intended, I'm honestly asking this.

I just bought a Mac mini, and I would love it if it was smaller and took up less space on my desk. That size might have felt like "mini" when it was first introduced, but it now feels quite hefty.

 

[theorist9]

Also, can carbon fiber be recycled as easily as aluminum?

A quick internet search suggests recycling carbon fiber is currently significantly more challenging than recyling alumnium, so that could hurt Apple's goal to appear green.

 

[sublunar]

A quick internet search suggests recycling carbon fiber is currently significantly more challenging than recyling alumnium, so that could hurt Apple's goal to appear green.

I was about to say that yes, Aluminium is the material to go for in terms of recycling but at that low end, they would need some radio transparency for wifi which is increasingly popular. A larger (taller?) structure with more transparent materials like plastic might be useful then.

I agree and can't see where Apple would see the point in making a smaller mini - especially as a case redesign at this point will incur costs.

The current mini will have big buying power behind it from co-location folks who actively want that form factor.

What I wouldn't mind is an Apple NAS - drop an A series chip into a micro tower with 4x 2.5" drive bays with 10 gig networking ports. Make it an AP too if that helps - a super Time Capsule.

 

[tubuliferous]

This is a great idea! The existing Mini form wouldn't have to be abandoned. We could have an additional, smaller Mac (Mac Micro?) as the lowest-end desktop computer in the Apple lineup, while keeping the more powerful Mini around for rack-mounted servers and for desktop users who need more oomph. The A15 processor in the latest AppleTV is probably more than powerful enough to run the latest MacOS (and almost certainly more capable at running the latest MacOS than most of the old Intel Macs).

Consider the following:

- The current-gen top-of-the-line AppleTV contains the A15 chip, has 4GB of RAM, has 128GB of SSD storage, and costs $150.​

​

- The current-gen LEAST expensive Mac mini has an M2 chip, 8GB of RAM, 256GB of SSD storage, and costs $600.​

​

- The performance of the A15 vs. the M2 is roughly:​

~90% single-core​

~50% multi-core​

~40% GPU​

​

- Most of the late Intel Macs don't match the raw performance of the A15 but still run MacOS fine.​

So there’s a strong case to be made for an inexpensive, AppleTV-sized, lowest-end desktop Mac, say, with an A15 chip, 256GB of SSD storage, 8GB of RAM, and priced at $300 (twice the cost of the high-end apple TV). Give this “Mac micro” several USB-C-shaped ports that carry thunderbolt, USB, video signals, and that all serve as power ports for a small external power adapter.

I think this computer would be a hit! Imagine having an inexpensive little palm-sized Mac that could easily be carried around and that could serve as a gateway device for people who are interested in MacOS, who already have a monitor/keyboard/mouse, but who aren’t ready to drop $600 to try out MacOS on a Mac mini. I know I'd be interested in having a Mac micro at $300.

 

[sublunar]

This is a great idea! The existing Mini form wouldn't have to be abandoned. We could have an additional, smaller Mac (Mac Micro?) as the lowest-end desktop computer in the Apple lineup, while keeping the more powerful Mini around for rack-mounted servers and for desktop users who need more oomph. The A15 processor in the latest AppleTV is probably more than powerful enough to run the latest MacOS (and almost certainly more capable at running the latest MacOS than most of the old Intel Macs).

Consider the following:

- The current-gen top-of-the-line AppleTV contains the A15 chip, has 4GB of RAM, has 128GB of SSD storage, and costs $150.​

​

- The current-gen LEAST expensive Mac mini has an M2 chip, 8GB of RAM, 256GB of SSD storage, and costs $600.​

​

- The performance of the A15 vs. the M2 is roughly:​

~90% single-core​

~50% multi-core​

~40% GPU​

​

- Most of the late Intel Macs don't match the raw performance of the A15 but still run MacOS fine.​

So there’s a strong case to be made for an inexpensive, AppleTV-sized, lowest-end desktop Mac, say, with an A15 chip, 256GB of SSD storage, 8GB of RAM, and priced at $300 (twice the cost of the high-end apple TV). Give this “Mac micro” several USB-C-shaped ports that carry thunderbolt, USB, video signals, and that all serve as power ports for a small external power adapter.

I think this computer would be a hit! Imagine having an inexpensive little palm-sized Mac that could easily be carried around and that could serve as a gateway device for people who are interested in MacOS, who already have a monitor/keyboard/mouse, but who aren’t ready to drop $600 to try out MacOS on a Mac mini. I know I'd be interested in having a Mac micro at $300.

Looking at iPhones I just don't see how Apple could fit anything other than a single USB-C (not Thunderbolt) port into such a device (a HDMI out might even steal bandwidth from the connection), and it's highly possible that Apple could consider performance to be below standard. My immediate thinking is you're positioning it as Apple's Raspberry Pi competitor - but consider how much they cost!

It can certainly carry on as a tvOS device such as an AppleTV though.

Just remember that a refurb M2 mini might be available in a few months for $500 - you can already pay that as EDU pricing.

A Mac Nano like people are Jonesing for is likely a pipe dream as Apple already give up profit for the Mini as it is.

 

[Siliconguy]

Also, can carbon fiber be recycled as easily as aluminum?

No. Carbon fiber and the resins that encase it can be burned, but not recycled.

 

[ADGrant]

Could they pack a Mac Mini into something the size of an Apple TV? I would buy one.

With an iPhone SoC? Interesting idea.

 

[tubuliferous]

Looking at iPhones I just don't see how Apple could fit anything other than a single USB-C (not Thunderbolt) port into such a device (a HDMI out might even steal bandwidth from the connection), and it's highly possible that Apple could consider performance to be below standard. My immediate thinking is you're positioning it as Apple's Raspberry Pi competitor - but consider how much they cost!

It can certainly carry on as a tvOS device such as an AppleTV though.

Just remember that a refurb M2 mini might be available in a few months for $500 - you can already pay that as EDU pricing.

A Mac Nano like people are Jonesing for is likely a pipe dream as Apple already give up profit for the Mini as it is.

Yeah, I hear what you're saying, and a LOWER low-end to the desktop lineup might not fit into Apple's marketing strategy. In other words, I agree that we're unlikely to see something like a Mac Nano. However, I do think there would be a market for such a device, and all it would really need port-wise is three USB-C-shaped thunderbolt/display/USB/power ports. The port layout of the current AppleTV 4K (power, HDMI, ethernet) takes up more room on the exterior of the device than the proposed collection of USB-C-sized ports would take up on the Mac Nano. The previous-gen AppleTV HD even had a fourth, USB-C port. Also, the general thinking seems to be that there are no engineering constraints to adding a thunderbolt port to an iPhone, so an internal thunderbolt controller presumably isn't very big.

Can somebody comment on whether there are engineering constraints precluding the inclusion of several thunderbolt ports on an AppleTV or on an AppleTV-sized Mac (with the same basic internal hardware as the A15 AppleTV)?

 

[i486dx2-66]

then there is a lot of infrastructure out there for rack mount mini in colo hosting.

NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.
The Mini remains "the size that it is" because a lot of server farms use it and expect a particular form factor to fit "into the racks".

The server farms would be thrilled if the Mac Mini halved in size.

Space, power, and cooling are what cost them money. The Apple Silicon transition takes a big chunk out of two of those, a drop in physical size would be welcomed. 👍

 

[i486dx2-66]

I just bought a Mac mini, and I would love it if it was smaller and took up less space on my desk. That size might have felt like "mini" when it was first introduced, but it now feels quite hefty.

As an owner of a 2009 and a 2018, it's amazing how much bigger the 7.7x7.7" aluminum chassis feels than its 6.5x6.5" polycarbonate predecessor.

Sure the newer one is 0.6" shorter, but the amount of additional desk space it takes up is significant - 59.29 vs 42.25 square inches. In fact, the difference in footprint between the older and newer Mac Minis (17.04 square inches) is more than the total footprint of the Apple TV! (3.66x3.66 = 13.40 square inches)

//edit: added a photo from Macworld's review when the "new" design came out

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Could they pack a Mac Mini into something the size of an Apple TV? I would buy one.

For me, they wouldn’t even have to put it in a nice case. Just call it ApplePi and let me load programs onto it and put in a case of my choosing

 

[theorist9]

The server farms would be thrilled if the Mac Mini halved in size.

Space, power, and cooling are what cost them money. The Apple Silicon transition takes a big chunk out of two of those, a drop in physical size would be welcomed. 👍

I'm not sure about that, but your comment certainly raises an interesting question: Would companies like MacStadium prefer a smaller form factor for the Mini? The benefit for them is less space, but at the cost of having to redo their rack infrastructure.

Also, would it be harder for them to keep a rack that has a higher density of smaller boxes cool? Note that they allow space between each Mini for ventilation, so even if you have a smaller case, can the spacing be made less if the thermal output is unchanged? Plus if the Minis' fans are cranked higher (which you would need with a smaller case under high, continuous loads, as you might get in a Mini farm), does this mean a higher failure rate?

Would be interesting to hear their take on this. The CW is that part of the reason Apple kept the current form factor is because of the Mini farms, not in spite of them.

 

[HouseLannister]

they kind of already did. It’s just a different OS choice for the hardware. the current fanless Apple TV is an A15 and the Apple silicon transition dev kit was an A12Z, so the current apple tv should be adequate hardware to run macOS. Granted it’s only 4 GB RAM, so it may not be super capable as a Mac. This is just a hackintosh project though. Apple would not pursue a smaller form factor because it would limit future expansion and they tend to go with form factors that they can reuse for multiple revisions. Go small enough for an a15 and you probably don’t have room for the thermals an m2 pro or m3 might demand. Go bigger than you really need and you have more flexibility in a year or two when newer chips are available.

 

[izzy0242mr]

Where would you put the thunderbolt/USB ports on a Mac Mini -- and the cooling (as in none).

But it doesn't need one, does it? The Air doesn't have a fan. Presumably with enough venting, a fanless M1 mini would be possible. But I don't see it happening this decade.

 

[cupcakes2000]

I'm not sure about that, but your comment certainly raises an interesting question: Would companies like MacStadium prefer a smaller form factor for the Mini? The benefit for them is less space, but at the cost of having to redo their rack infrastructure.

Also, would it be harder for them to keep a rack that has a higher density of smaller boxes cool? Note that they allow space between each Mini for ventilation, so even if you have a smaller case, can the spacing be made less if the thermal output is unchanged? Plus if the Minis' fans are cranked higher (which you would need with a smaller case under high, continuous loads, as you might get in a Mini farm), does this mean a higher failure rate?

Would be interesting to hear their take on this. The CW is that part of the reason Apple kept the current form factor is because of the Mini farms, not in spite of them.

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A cursory glance suggests that providing they keep the same width, they wouldn’t necessarily need to replace the racks rather than modify them to hold 2 in each slot, or maybe engineer cages to hold 4x per slot. Proving they can modify suitably to power that configuration per slot, that may work.