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The other plastic TV remotes look a lot better than the Apple TV one
I’d like to see the following in a future version:
3) Plastic/more robust remote
I have kids who can't be trusted with nice and easily scratched/chipped aluminium things.
To be clear you’re talking about the current remote? It’s kinda built like a tank… definitely more robust than the plastic remote that came with my TV or the plastic remote on my sister’s firestick…

I suppose you can always put it in a rubber case, they sell plenty on amazon, if you need it to be even more robust
 

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I see that Netflix will stop supporting older TVs and Sony mentioned it impacts their 2014 and older TVs where the Netflix App will no longer work after July. I have the Apple TV from 2015 and wonder if that will soon loose support from Netflix. That could force a lot of Apple TV updates and having a $99 device would certainly help.
 
The problem is that the market for paid games on the Apple TV is basically dead (or rather, it was never alive).

The nintendo switch showed that you don't need top of the line specs to sustain a thriving gaming platform but at the same time, the issue with the iOS platform is that Apple has conditioned users to expect cheap software, and I don't think users are willing to pay $60 for a game title the same way they would on the switch.

I do wish the developers of games like grimvalor would release Apple TV versions of their games (I already play it on my iPad with a PS5 game controller, and even paid for the switch version so I could play it on my TV), but I also understand if they feel it's too small of a market to be worth their time.

An Apple TV running an M1 or M2 chip would be a powerhouse, but at the same time, most people just use it for streaming and you don't really need that sort of horsepower for it.
If free to play games have killed the paid for market then Apple Arcade is a reasonable response / a Netflix of gaming for a low monthly cost and no pesky ads.

AAA or not apple haven’t found that must-have title that will make a subscription worthwhile for many users. It doesn’t have to interest most of us but it does need to generate enough buzz to get people buying Apple TV for the games.

M2 would be superb for an Apple TV pro but pointless if something like the A17 pro can match it for most games without being a power hog (two performance cores with high single thread counts and a decent number of GPU cores would suffice).

Apple just need to buy up the next Bungie and get exclusive games that will get people chatting about it.

Anyway, even though M2 would create a buzz in the community I think the latest A series chip would probably do perfectly well for games never mind streaming.
 
I see that Netflix will stop supporting older TVs and Sony mentioned it impacts their 2014 and older TVs where the Netflix App will no longer work after July. I have the Apple TV from 2015 and wonder if that will soon loose support from Netflix. That could force a lot of Apple TV updates and having a $99 device would certainly help.

No. There reason for ending support on TV's generally is due to the following reasons

1) The TV manufactures have basically stopped supporting the OS on the TV. It can be as simple as it can't support features of the latest version of the app so the service just doesn't try or it can be that they stop approving app updates or take forever to approve so the service can't push updates

2) The TV's are underpowered and overtime the apps generally get more intensive so the performance just gets so bad that it looks bad on the service so its better just to drop support

The thing with the AppleTV is even the original non-4k version of the ATV4 is massively overpowered for a streaming box, that is more powerful than a Switch and certainly more powerful than basically every other streaming box on the market (well outside maybe the Shield) and the thing is by the time Apple finally decided to move on from the Apple TV 3 the market was fairly well established that there is nothing to really push tvOS far enough that they can justify excluding any of the ATV4's from new tvOS updates (Unlike phones, tablets and computers that are causing the OS's to push the boundaries of what the hardware can do so they have to drop some of the older devices to maintain a smooth operation) and as they are all running the same OS and are all way too powerful for streaming services requirements there is no need for services to drop support for any of the ATV4's.

Unless Apple take a dickish move of removing support for an artificial reason I can't see you not getting updates for a long time and Netflix will almost certainly support it still for a good few years after that happens anyway
 
If Apple were to use an A17, this would be a good way to move stock of otherwise defective A17 parts (especially considering that N3B seems to have a lower yield rate than previous nodes).

Similar to the A15 in the current Apple TV, which has a 5-core CPU (one of the four efficiency cores was disabled), these A17s might have a 5-core CPU as well. It's unlikely that Apple would also disable a GPU core considering they would want to tout its raytracing capabilities.
 
Hmm that's odd considering I have three different Amazon Firestick 4k and one of them is 2 years old and it still operates fine. Even though I have a lot of Apple products I have zero interest in an Apple TV which is priced 5x what you can buy a Firestick 4k for. Amazon has these on sale all the time for around $30 and even if they only last 2 years, so what, since they are so inexpensive you can replace them and they are also physically small. An AppleTV at $50 I might buy, but at $99 its a no-sale to me.
I was the same for few yrs but I seemed to be replacing the 4k fire sticks yearly or sooner and dealing with apps freezing or closing out or being glitchy etc so I switch to all Apple TVs even the first gen Apple TV 4k operates way faster/smoother than even the latest fire stick 4k without all the ads And all the 3rd party apps operate better And the seamless integration with my AirPods HomePods HomeKit and iPhone make using it waaay better than the firestick. Anytime I have to type text. I just pick up my iPhone and type it in. I want to purchase something I just approve it one click on my phone.

can’t stress enough how much better the experience is
 
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If Apple were to use an A17, this would be a good way to move stock of otherwise defective A17 parts (especially considering that N3B seems to have a lower yield rate than previous nodes).

Similar to the A15 in the current Apple TV, which has a 5-core CPU (one of the four efficiency cores was disabled), these A17s might have a 5-core CPU as well. It's unlikely that Apple would also disable a GPU core considering they would want to tout its raytracing capabilities.
I suspect this year Apple will want to sweep A17 Pro under the carpet due to the expensive dead end N3B process - which would be why A17 (non pro) won't be a thing unless they’ve come up with A17 on n3e process but then with a18 coming up why bother?


It probably makes more sense to go back to A18 Pro/A18 (non pro) for iPhone 16 and then decide how to proceed for iPhone 17 next year. Apple could use binned Pro chips to help satisfy non pro demand for other items this year for example - like the AppleTV.

SKUs that have the M3 (MacBooks and iMacs I believe) may get refreshed this October (as soon as practical) to M4 for that reason.
 
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I hope they update hardware with something more powerful. I have latest 4K model and it drop frames on the home screen like crazy. M2/3 something to rescue this ****.
 
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I hope they update hardware with something more powerful. I have latest 4K model and it drop frames on the home screen like crazy. M2/3 something to rescue this ****.
I’ve never seen this prob… it’s possible your atv is defective (maybe the fan isnt working and it’s overheating?), you should take it into an apple store and have it looked at
 
I hope they update hardware with something more powerful. I have latest 4K model and it drop frames on the home screen like crazy. M2/3 something to rescue this ****.
That seems more you problem than a the AppleTV being underpowered. Even the non-4k version is more powerful than a Switch let alone the streaming boxes from Amazon, Google and Roku. The only thing that realistically could push the hardware to its limits is gaming but as it doesn't have the user base to bring in the big games and big publishers then tbh most of the gaming issues are more poor optimisation rather than hitting hardware limits so a faster device might not even resolve that
 
The only thing that realistically could push the hardware to its limits is gaming but as it doesn't have the user base to bring in the big games and big publishers then tbh most of the gaming issues are more poor optimisation rather than hitting hardware limits so a faster device might not even resolve that

Disagree with this. One should not think of gaming user base in terms of tvOS consumers, but rather more broadly consumers of iOS, iPadOS, MacOS, AND tvOS. The reason is because Apple Silicon provides a unified architecture and platform. We are already starting to see AAA titles appear across iOS, iPadOS, and MacOS with a purchase (and save states) being shared across all platforms. tvOS is not yet apart of this because it needs an M4+ chip. It's only a matter of time, it just makes sense for there to be an Apple TV Pro for gaming. Apple has over 2.2 Billion active users across its devices so it can become a behemoth quickly as it invests more into gaming. This may even be accelerated as Apple is slightly pivoting away from its TV content offerings since they are not finding that especially profitable.
 
Disagree with this. One should not think of gaming user base in terms of tvOS consumers, but rather more broadly consumers of iOS, iPadOS, MacOS, AND tvOS. The reason is because Apple Silicon provides a unified architecture and platform. We are already starting to see AAA titles appear across iOS, iPadOS, and MacOS with a purchase (and save states) being shared across all platforms. tvOS is not yet apart of this because it needs an M4+ chip. It's only a matter of time, it just makes sense for there to be an Apple TV Pro for gaming. Apple has over 2.2 Billion active users across its devices so it can become a behemoth quickly as it invests more into gaming. This may even be accelerated as Apple is slightly pivoting away from its TV content offerings since they are not finding that especially profitable.

It's not that simple though, even with the tools Apple provide to first help port your game to an Apple ecosystem and then between the devices it's much more involved than that. Each device has its own design considerations that has to be taken into account, for example just porting a PC version of a game might work ok for the Mac but its going to be an awful experience on a iPhone or iPad.

The amount of development time needed to make it a flawless experience on each device plays a big part in game studios deciding if its worth their effort and when the AppleTV has such a small user base it makes it much less likely that they deem it not to be even if it might need less work than say on iOS.

And as we have seen RE:7 has been a massive flop on iOS/iPadOS and that has a much bigger user base. And seeing as a AppleTV device that has an M chip and enough storage to make it viable as a gaming system is going to jack up the price and limit its reach. They would need to first do what most console manufacturers do but Apple has never been willing to do and thats subsidise the hardware costs with the aim to make it back elsewhere (they won't even cut the AppleTV price to get it more competitive price wise with Amazon, Google or Roku) and sign a significant amount of exclusives with a built in pedigree to the platform
 
It's not that simple though, even with the tools Apple provide to first help port your game to an Apple ecosystem and then between the devices it's much more involved than that. Each device has its own design considerations that has to be taken into account, for example just porting a PC version of a game might work ok for the Mac but its going to be an awful experience on a iPhone or iPad.

The amount of development time needed to make it a flawless experience on each device plays a big part in game studios deciding if its worth their effort and when the AppleTV has such a small user base it makes it much less likely that they deem it not to be even if it might need less work than say on iOS.

And as we have seen RE:7 has been a massive flop on iOS/iPadOS and that has a much bigger user base. And seeing as a AppleTV device that has an M chip and enough storage to make it viable as a gaming system is going to jack up the price and limit its reach. They would need to first do what most console manufacturers do but Apple has never been willing to do and thats subsidise the hardware costs with the aim to make it back elsewhere (they won't even cut the AppleTV price to get it more competitive price wise with Amazon, Google or Roku) and sign a significant amount of exclusives with a built in pedigree to the platform
Software support is very tricky with the platform though, I get the feeling that there’s not as much help for devs with Apple stuff and their habit of suddenly discontinuing hardware and software frameworks doesn’t help.

There’s the basis of a console platform there for Apple if they settled on a cpu and committed to having it be a settled and supported platform for 5-8 years. For example an A18 cpu, M4 might be a stretch. To be fair, a mid life refresh like the PS5 Pro (after the PS4 pro) would be equivalent to Apple putting an A19 cpu in Apple TV after 3-4 years on sale.

But the gaming issue here is that Apple have removed the cooling fan from the current generation A15 powered Apple TV. Not a good sign for gamers who want to play for hours on end.

And as you observe, Sony and Microsoft will reduce costs of the hardware eventually - Apple won’t.
 
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That seems more you problem than a the AppleTV being underpowered. Even the non-4k version is more powerful than a Switch let alone the streaming boxes from Amazon, Google and Roku. The only thing that realistically could push the hardware to its limits is gaming but as it doesn't have the user base to bring in the big games and big publishers then tbh most of the gaming issues are more poor optimisation rather than hitting hardware limits so a faster device might not even resolve that
Either you are blind or ignorant. Even iPhone 15 Pro has dropped frames. This is iP13 hardware and sometimes i get i would say 30FPS home screen. This is most prominent when i minimising youtube app or "some heavy video" app like VLC. After initial struggle it works ok.

It is not ****** like Amazon 4K Max or Google Chromecast but it costs 3x-4x more than those devices.
 
It's not that simple though, even with the tools Apple provide to first help port your game to an Apple ecosystem and then between the devices it's much more involved than that. Each device has its own design considerations that has to be taken into account, for example just porting a PC version of a game might work ok for the Mac but its going to be an awful experience on a iPhone or iPad.

The amount of development time needed to make it a flawless experience on each device plays a big part in game studios deciding if its worth their effort and when the AppleTV has such a small user base it makes it much less likely that they deem it not to be even if it might need less work than say on iOS.

And as we have seen RE:7 has been a massive flop on iOS/iPadOS and that has a much bigger user base. And seeing as a AppleTV device that has an M chip and enough storage to make it viable as a gaming system is going to jack up the price and limit its reach. They would need to first do what most console manufacturers do but Apple has never been willing to do and thats subsidise the hardware costs with the aim to make it back elsewhere (they won't even cut the AppleTV price to get it more competitive price wise with Amazon, Google or Roku) and sign a significant amount of exclusives with a built in pedigree to the platform
Surely we can't say things like that until we know why RE:7 failed?
The impression I get is that the failure was not *technical* (ie it's not like people were either saying "this game crashes all the time" or "this game is so laggy and stuttery it's no fun"); the impression I have been given is that the problems were in the business model, ie, for better or worse, the targeted Apple consumers were unwilling to pay the price demanded.

If so, various very different options suggest themselves.
For example
- people though that price was unreasonable because the game was "old" and, like a movie in a theater, part of the price is justified by newness. Solution is charge same price, but release at same time as PC/console?
- mobile audience is never going to pay that sort of price (but is much larger). Solution is charge quarter of the price to 4x as many sales?
- don't sell as one-time product at a high price, sell as a subscription (or part of a subscription)?

I don't see much value in your argument of Apple selling a console via a console business model. Games are just not a great business to be in.
Apple's willing to to a little to help game vendors (APIs, kick-ass hardware, Apple Arcade, etc), but it's the vendor's job to figure out their business model. It's not Apple's job to build a competitor to X-Box or Playstation, I just don't see how that furthers any important Apple strategy.
 
Games are just not a great business to be in.
Really?

Gaming industry surpasses video and audio industry afaik.

Apple should really put more energy into Apple Arcade and bring all those small games (freemiums) and cash in on that. With rise of Apple Silicon chips, they should slowly brining AAA titles.
 
Really?

Gaming industry surpasses video and audio industry afaik.

Apple should really put more energy into Apple Arcade and bring all those small games (freemiums) and cash in on that. With rise of Apple Silicon chips, they should slowly brining AAA titles.
The linked story is from years ago when the assumption was that more people would stay at home playing video games. It reversed big style with the taking down of lockdown.

This year with the general global downturn we have seen many companies including games studios cutting staff.

Generally it might be true that AAA titles bring in cash I think the freemium market (conflated with micro transaction and pay to win genre) brings in more due to high investment costs for AAA titles.

Apple just don’t show much interest in going that way unless the forthcoming Mac mini redesign will also bring a tvOS mode and therefore AppleTv pro by proxy.

Even then that’s just the hardware, they are patently not paying Apple Arcade much attention
So why would they consider making a AAA games division who could take years to bring AAA games from
Concept to publication at a cost of millions of dollars per title?

That said, they’d throw money at movie titles that costs millions to make and might be costly loss making flops.

Guess they need a Phil Schiller figure to go in to bat for games at apple. Sadly there does not appear to be such a person.
 
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Really?

Gaming industry surpasses video and audio industry afaik.

Apple should really put more energy into Apple Arcade and bring all those small games (freemiums) and cash in on that. With rise of Apple Silicon chips, they should slowly brining AAA titles.

A business can have high revenue without being especially desirable, for multiple reasons.
One is low barriers to entry, so low profitability. Another is high unpredictability. A third is if most of the money goes to people in the production chain, with little left over for investors.
Movies are an example of a business that makes some money, but is by no means a RATIONAL investment (ie a good business to be in). Airlines are another.
 
That said, they’d throw money at movie titles that costs millions to make and might be costly loss making flops.
That's a good counterpoint, and I have to admit I have NO CLUE what the point of Apple TV+ really is. My best guess is it's a sort of defensive play, a way to ensure that there's a way to fight back if it looks like the entire Apple ecosystem is threatened by a large studio or streaming corp deciding they no longer want to support Apple. It could also be a way to ensure that new products (think Vision Pro) launch out the gate with an adequate "entertainment" story.

This line of thinking is reminiscent of Sony's strategy in the 90s. Which basically destroyed Sony. The minor element that was supposed to be a support for the real businesses (TV, Walkman, VCRs etc) began to determine all of strategy, and the strategy it determined was "be hostile to any innovation because it might hurt the entertainment business".
I'm not sure quite why this happened, and I've never seen a Clayton Christenesque analysis. My best guess is that Hollywood glamor took over the minds of Sony execs, who were willing to do whatever crazy thing the studio told them for the chance to meet actresses and go to actor parties?

So relevant to Apple? I don't know but I do worry. The role of Apple TV+ (and Music) is starting to feel the same as Sony strategy. We haven't YET had hardware crippled to keep entertainment happy, but in ten years who knows? The one good thing is that Sony is there as a VERY obvious example. (90s Sony was to Apple what Apple is today; everyone in the company was obsessed with Sony and "how can we be more like them". Meaning as long as there are enough of those folks from the 90s still in positions of power, the Sony mistakes will not be made. But that was 30 years ago; people get old and retire...
As long as Tim is in control I stay optimistic. But once he leaves...
 
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