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The Dothan cpu and 7300Go gpu are old, but that doesn't make them cheap. Intel and nVidia would probably really like to move the lines that produce these parts to make something more profitable. To this end the costs are probably much higher than they were a year or so ago - just to try to persuade people to order newer products. The Dothan in particular is now 3 generations old. It's probably the reason the 40 GB version was dropped - the supply of 40 GB IDE drives dried up. I can see the supply of 160 GB drives drying up soon as I can't think of anything other than the ATV that uses them.

With the software, I think Apple regards whole number upgrades should coincide with new UIs - the point releases in 2.x offered some big upgrades (supporting soft subtitles, multiple audio and ipod/iphone remote support) so it may be that the 10.6 upgrade comes as a 3.x release.

If the ipod, iphone and tablet are transitioning to using the same processor, it makes sense to move the Apple TV to the same internals from an economics point of view especially as it will benefit the design by generating much less heat. I'm not sure what benefit the ATV has by running a fuller OS X than mobile OS X. It may even work out that a mobile OS X will run more smoothly on the ATV hardware.
 
I love my Apple TV but I don't think you will hear any major announcement at the late Jan. event. I think you will hear about the iPad and the upgrade for the Macbook Pros.

As for the lack of success for the Apple TV, I think people are too focused on wanting HD content right now at 1080p. This gives the Apple TV a bad reputation. The only thing that adequately provides good 1080p content are Blue Ray disks. Even Netflix streaming does NOT provide HD content (and they do not include their whole library). The files for HD are way too large to be stored or streamed effectively. Until people can store 4TB+ of data on their drives affordably it won't happen.

Things I would love to see in my Apple TV...

1. A DVD player or Blueray Player with file ripping capabilities. I'd love to sync/import the 100 DVDs that I own to iTunes in an easy manner so I don't have to repurchase them.

2. An Apple movie steaming service. This would be something similar to what Netflix offers.

3. An optional hard drive expansion or rack that can be used with the Apple TV. This would allow people to use the Apple TV completely without their PC if they wanted.
 
This might be true (They did mention moving the ATV to 10.6), but I can't see why this didn't happen with the 3.0 update.

Well I can think of one reason they didn't move to the 10.6 kernel and frameworks in the 3.0 update, the existing hardware either doesn't support it or it would perform poorly on the existing hardware. This way they give all the people who have original AppleTV's access to the current iTunes features. I think this could support a hardware revision of AppleTV with a multi-core CPU, better GPU & larger capacity's to support a whole new OS with Grand Central and OpenCL support from 10.6. This would allow them to improve the UI and make a more complex ( in terms of code ) interface that is more fluid by using OpenCL. When video content is selected the OS would then move to the background and release the GPU to process and decode the video.


But does it need to be more like a Mac? A slightly redefined iPhone OS could work on an Apple TV quite easily (especially if the Tablet does run iPhone OS) and the new ARM chips are supposed to be able to decode 1080p (look at the Tegra2).

Sadly, the complete lack of rumours says to me that beyond a simple hard drive upgrade, there won't be anything new for the AppleTV next week even though it would surely be cheaper to use ARM chips than continuing to order 4 year old cpus, gpus and hard drives.

I agree, the iPhone OS is OSX with a different UI layer so there is no reason Apple would not be able to use iPhone OS 4.0 with a modified UI. However, I don't think they will do this because there is no need for Cocoa Touch on an AppleTV unless they add further support for iPhone/iPod Touch control. The other reason I don't think they will use an ARM based solution is there is no need for Ultra Low Power processors, the device sits plugged into the wall all the time. I see the new Low Power (for low heat) version of the Intel Core i3 that may be heading toward the Mac Book Air as a better fit. Using the Core i3 gives them more buying power with Intel to get a cheaper cost on a major component of the MB Air so they can try to drop it down to a lower price point.

All of this for AppleTV is moot unless, as I said before, they revamp the business model of iTunes. With the acquisitions and the new server farm, this very well could be part of the announcement next week. Apple bought a music streaming company, an Ad company and are making a huge server farm that could allow them to change the way they distribute content and challenge the established supply chain for media. The only thing they will be hard to accomplish is the Live TV events/shows. This obviously would need to be done via streaming and that will be a challenge for HD and most internet connections.
 
The point of ARM is that it is a complete system on a chip. With a low voltage i3 there still needs to be a separate gpu not to mention north/south bridges where as the ARM setup builds a multicore cpu/gpu etc into one chip. Low voltage intel chips are also more expensive than their regular voltage equivalent as they are hand picked for their ability to run at a lower voltage.
 
It isn't a requirement, but think about it from Apple's perspective. The AppleTV exists to sell content from iTunes.
Is that your reasoning or Apples? If it's Apples, then much of the rest of your feedback makes more sense. If it's yours, I counter with a different take: The AppleTV exists to connect iTunes content to your HDTV and home electronics. I suggest that the majority of almost everyone's iTunes content is NOT content purchased from iTunes, but content they added by ripping their CD collections, converting their DVDs, etc. iTunes even manages the flow of their iPhotos so that it can display them on their HDTV.

I argue that AppleTV no more exists to sell content from iTunes than iPods or iPhones... or more simply- and as Apple has pitched it- the AppleTV is an iPod for your television. Do iPods exist solely to sell content from iTunes?

They sell content via the internet so what they sell has to be sent via the internet. Most home broadband internet connections range from 1 - 8mbps with many of those capped at 250GB data transfer per month.

OK. So what do you say to the same arguments applied to everything else that Apple makes? Why build in MMS & tethering until AT&T could fully support it? Why build in multi-core computers and grand central until most software was coded to support it? Why build anything that pushes the envelope until most of what would support the push is in place to support it?

Why is 1080 content now being added to many other sites like YouTube? Why are other manufacturers building AppleTV-like boxes or tech hooked to the Internet with 1080p hardware? Don't they all know about the broadband problem you point out? What are they thinking?

Taking this stance argues there is little need to advance the platform until most of the U.S. broadband infrastructure is heavily upgraded to be able to manage the flow of these bigger files in a reasonable amount of time. Meanwhile, many other players enter the set-top box space with such hardware capabilities, increasingly pressuring the "why buy?" AppleTV proposition.

Furthermore, Apple has NO control over when bandwidth might be expanded, just like they have NO control over when AT&T might be able to support features built into the last generation of iPhones, but that didn't stop them from advancing what they do control, delivering tech with advances beyond what is mostly supported, pressuring these other players to move (their support) along.

Very simply: we almost NEVER get there if we have to wait for broadband to be fattened up enough to support it. Until the keepers of that broadband significantly feel the need (such that it hits them in the pocketbook), they WON'T do very much about that problem. Stances like you appear to support creates NO REASON for them to bother.

If you are watching anything except a Blu-ray movie, you are most likely watching 720p content. Cable, satellite, and others push content at 720p resolution because of bandwidth constraints which means Apple's competition is mostly using 720p.

That's only got some modest truths in it. In my own case, I watch more major network television than any cable channels. I receive those networks for FREE over the air. I am pretty sure that CBS, NBC, and FOX are 1080i. The satt channels I watch are generally 1080i too, though there are some 720p channels.

Nevertheless, if we accept that Apple's role is only to meet- not beat- the competition, then there is also little excuse to advance. Get that competition to accept the same mentality, and all advances could stop here- all tech "as is" is good enough(???). As I understand the tech market- and Apple- the goal is to roll out "gee whiz" next big things, and not things that are only as good as- but no better than- the competition.

Note: For reference, a 1080p Blu-ray movie is approximately 22GB+ when stored on a hard disk. 10 of these movies would consume most of the monthly data transfer quota associated with a Comcast internet connection. Exceeding this quota can cause your internet connection to be disconnected.

See above. At one point we all had 1200 baud modems and 64Mb hard drives at best. Isn't it nice that instead of deciding that was "good enough" for the masses, the natural drive to advance tech continued to deliver faster modems and bigger drives. However, had the crowd decided that that was fast enough and/or big enough storage, then all would have stopped there.

I make no argument that 22GB is big (in both vs. broadband limits and hard drive storage). But until there is a common problem, there isn't a great deal done to solve that problem. At one time a 1MB file was massive (Bill Gates is famously quoted as saying "640K ram is all we'll ever need"), but now 1MB is "tiny". Hop even a few years into the future and 22GB will not seem nearly as large then, as it seems now. And when we have 10TB-20TB hard drives, a 22GB movie file will seem as small as a 3GB movie file seems on a 2TB hard drive.

The broadband pipes were clogged with Bittorrent, Youtube, Facebook, and similar traffic long before the idea of selling TV shows via the internet reached the mainstream. Comcast, Time Warner, and other services have no incentive to upgrade their networks to assist competitors with taking their cable television customers from them.

It's not about the load at all... it's about the loss of cash (revenues) because of the overload. Until enough people dump a Comcast, etc provider because it's network is too overloaded, there is little incentive to meaningfully upgrade their network. They could care less about the load as long as most of their subscribers keep paying the monthly fee. But let those subscribers start giving up on their broadband (stop paying for that overloaded network) and network upgrades will quickly follow. It is the money- not the quality of service- that moves these pseudo-monopolies to spend money on their networks.

Note that at one time, Comcast cable was only loaded with analog video. Then, some of that was compressed into digital channels to make room for broadband internet. Then, some of the bandwidth that could give us super fast broadband was allocated to digital voice services. Meanwhile, there is still plenty of analog channels that could be digitized, freeing up even more room for broader pipes. And odds are good that if you'll check your Comcast service, you'll see that they offer much higher broadband speeds to business accounts at much higher prices. It's the same cable and same infrastructure: higher speed Comcast could be made available if the demand was there (and from our point of view: if the price was right). The point is that a gradual uptake of 1080p AppleTVs would be unlikely to overwhelm the Internet; but until the demand for broader pipes is realized, the supply of broader pipes feels no pull.

To the point that the cable TV companies who are also broadband internet providers have no desire to facilitate any fatter-pipes solution that would enable an erosion of their lucrative TV distribution cash cows, we completely agree there. However, how they'll deal with that is simply raising the price of the broadband (for higher demand users) to wash out the loss of cable TV revenues. Because of this unfortunate reality, a complete AppleTV-type cable replacement solution would eventually need Apple to find a way to bypass the current pipes. One crazy(?) idea would be for Apple to take some of their massive cash holdings and buy DISH network, giving them end-to-end control (and a bypass route) to link AppleTV demand directly to Apple servers. Can you picture little white dishes all over the country with the Apple logo on them?


All that said, I appreciate this kind of take on this situation, and how it seems to be a logical attempt to justify why having 3+ year old hardware in the existing :apple:TV makes some kind of sense. But Apple applies that "good enough" philosophy to NOTHING (tech) else that it makes. As I see it, the problem is merely- and solely- Apple summoning up the will to build and market a next-gen :apple:TV. If we have to wait until all of the other players are all lined up in full "we're ready for it" support, it (almost) never (can) arrives.

Or very, very simply: in matters such as this, should Apple lead or follow?
 
I think Apple is starting to be interested in media as well as hardware (and they even changed their name from Apple Computers to Apple about 2 years ago). If you think back they've been quite canny about it - I remember the iTunes adverts in 2000 (In the UK it was Sunburn by Muse over a backdrop of a visualiser) with the tag line Rip, mix, burn. In other words they were promoting ripping your own content for compilation CDs and, later, iPods. I think the iTunes store was an experiment to further promote the iPod and see if the market was there. What's happening now is that they are migrating people over to digital music. Most people here will still buy CDs - not only because we know they are better quality (in theory), but because we've grown up with CDs. However, the generation about to go through university will have grown up with digital music and will see that as normal. If Apple started selling lossless albums with iTunesLP I'd switch to buying digital music instantly (keep single sings as AAC and full albums as ALAC with iTunesLP).

The same, unfortunately isn't true with video due to the legalities of ripping DVDs, but Apple may still be trying to wrest control away from the traditional video delivery methods.
 
You guys have all made interesting arguments that have made for some good reading on this thread.

Like some of you, I think that the real underlying problem that's preventing the blossoming of ATV or a product like it is the Motion Picture industry itself. They make the music industry look like a bunch of hippies in a commune. It took a long time for the major labels to open up to the idea of digital content delivery and they still in some ways still don't get it. But at least there's a legal and easy way to obtain music at a lower cost than going to Best Buy and buying a cd and ripping it and now with iTunes+ there's no DRM.

Can you imagine if the member companies of the MPAA agreed to do the same? Yeah, I can't imagine it, either.

Instead the best we can get is a limited selection of highly compressed movies laden with DRM. Well, if you want to be legal about it that's what we get. Technically you don't even have the right to back up your own DVDs or BDs. It's like saying "if you make guns illegal, then only criminals will have guns". If you make ripping a disk illegal, then only criminals will rip disks.

The problem is not a technical one. Enough bandwidth can be brought to a large number of homes to provide for the delivery of high quality HD content. There exists low cost set top boxes which can stream content or play it back from a local hard disk (such as PCH, Mediagate, etc).

Theoretically, a person right now can download a movie from the usenet, store it on a hard drive in their home, and watch the movie on an actual TV with excellent video and audio quality with no time limitations or crippling DRM. If you make the distribution of high quality digital media illegal, then only criminals will possess high quality digital media.

Apple cracked the music nut. Maybe they'll crack the movie nut, too. The real problems with ATV won't be solved in the R&D lab by engineers and programmers, they'll be solved in conference rooms by execs and lawyers.

John
 
What do you think about this pics? Looks like apple has updated the box (white instead of black) -> but not on their website. Maybe they'll update the website in two days, with a complete new AppleTV in addition to the existing one ...
 

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This has been a great thread, full of well written arguments. I lack the ability to make technical arguments, due to generally sucking with tech stuff.

But over the last month or so, my 2 year old Apple TV has not been doing so well. It'll become randomly unresponsive and sometimes just won't sync with my iMac, no matter how much network reception it has.
My wish list for the 27th is:
iSlate with kickass eReader and newspaper subscription services, along with the ability to tether to my iPhone, be good at word processing (both having a good app and having a reasonable keyboard) and be better at accessing the net than my iPhone.
MacBook Pro more RAM, more HDD space, lighter, better graphics card, generally more awesome.
and an updated Apple TV
and what I'd want to see with that is:
A bigger HDD. Yes I know everyone wants streaming, but I live in Australia. My net sucks. It's slow, unreliable and I have a ridiculously small dl limit. Yes, yes, build it and they will come. But having a bigger HDD won't stop people from streaming, it'll just give us more options.
Some way of making the connection with my computer more reliable. Streaming from it would be fine, if it was reliable. But I just want my iTunes files to be on the Apple TV so that it's easier and quicker to use.
AVI compatibility for both the ATV and iTunes. But that's probably not happening...
We don't really have many streaming services like Hulu or anything here in Aus. Really all we have is that ABC player thing, and I've got that on my PS3. I just want the ATV to be able to do what it does now, only better.
 
The real problems with ATV won't be solved in the R&D lab by engineers and programmers, they'll be solved in conference rooms by execs and lawyers.

Gotta disagree with you here, John. Apple is not a company that gives in to anyone. I can't believe for a minute that they're going to be told what kind of hardware they can or can't make by a few production companies.

Apple first and foremost is a hardware company. These other companies producing media players aren't crippling them like Apple is. Apple's choice to limit their device is hampering their overall sales, both hardware and iTMS purchases alike. The tighter they play to the media companies, the more media player costumers they're going to lose.
 
Gotta disagree with you here, John. Apple is not a company that gives in to anyone. I can't believe for a minute that they're going to be told what kind of hardware they can or can't make by a few production companies.

Apple first and foremost is a hardware company. These other companies producing media players aren't crippling them like Apple is. Apple's choice to limit their device is hampering their overall sales, both hardware and iTMS purchases alike. The tighter they play to the media companies, the more media player costumers they're going to lose.

That is EXACTLY RIGHT. In support...
  • what if Apple had locked iPod quality to 128Kbps... to preserve the higher quality value argument for CD sales?
  • what if Apple had locked TV and movies to the original square aspect ratio in support of Gen 5 iPod video, preserving the higher quality value proposition of both DVD (widescreen) and BD?
  • what if iPhone advances were limited to just what AT&T could handle, so no possibility of tethering, MMS, etc?

Apple must lead... not follow, nor get into these "broadband is too limited" or "there is no 1080p Studio content in iTunes", etc.-type arguments. They ARE a hardware-first company, and 3-year+ old hardware doesn't exactly scream Apple is cutting-edge.

I think the problem is simply a lack of focus, or a lack of will. It would take only a relatively small team to completely cover the former (if Apple can work that way... empowering teams to advance products & platforms). The latter is even easier, though it involves someone with authority to champion the project.

Sometimes I wonder if Apple is so Steve-centric, or set up to be that way, that it does have a hard time moving along for very long without his focus. So, when Steve gets overly focused on something (say this Tablet), most everything else (like- say- this :apple:TV product) gets backburnered. Sure, we see some advances in other products- including advances while Steve was on leave- but this :apple:TV (IMO) is a product that could probably be bigger than even the iPhone if it was just given a modest amount of focus.

Personally, I think it is their broadest appeal product hampered by a lack of will to fill in the few missing pieces to really explode the desire. Those pieces are well within Apple's reach and capabilities... so, (again IMO) it seems to merely come down to an issue of summoning up the will to (re)make it great.
 
Gotta disagree with you here, John. Apple is not a company that gives in to anyone. I can't believe for a minute that they're going to be told what kind of hardware they can or can't make by a few production companies.

Apple first and foremost is a hardware company. These other companies producing media players aren't crippling them like Apple is. Apple's choice to limit their device is hampering their overall sales, both hardware and iTMS purchases alike. The tighter they play to the media companies, the more media player costumers they're going to lose.

You missed my point. I'm not saying that Apple can't make the hardware. I'm saying that unless the members of the MPAA agree to release the stranglehold on CONTENT, then hardware is irrelevant. I'm not saying that Apple won't be able to do that. I'm saying that it's something they need to do and then the hardware is a trivial matter.

The other companies that you referred to that make media players that aren't "crippled" are not mainstream high profile companies like Apple. They get away with making and selling these devices because by and large they're under the radar.

Ok, so... compare what Apple has done with music to what an equivalent system would be for movies:

You can take a cd, stick it into a computer and software will automatically convert it to ALAC, MP3, or whatever. The resulting files are then integrated into your iTunes library with no DRM. If you wanted to, you could share all of these files with your friends without any technical restrictions. Then the software in essence makes additional copies on your iPod or iPhone. If you have more than one portable device, you can have multiple copies of those same files, one on each device. If you wanted to buy music that you don't already possess on physical cd, you can buy it legally and without DRM from the iTunes Store. After you've purchased it, you can do all the things you could do with cd-originated music. Ok?

So... picture this... You have a DVD or a Bluray, which has intrinsic DRM in the form of encryption. Ok, maybe it's lame and easily bypassed, but it's there to prevent people from copying the content. Ok, so Apple makes a device similar to a Mini which has a BD drive and software which can crack both DVD and BD encryption. You then make a digital copy of the movie, which is then incorporated into your iTunes software. At this point, it no longer is hampered by DRM, so you can share it with your friends if you want. You can recode the movie to allow for smaller file size and then copy it onto your mobile device. If you have more than one mobile device you can make multiple copies. If you want a movie that you don't already posses as a DVD or BD, you can buy it (not rent it) off of the iTunes store without any DRM and you can then do all the same stuff you could do with the DVD/BD originated content.

Apple can do this, and do it easily. I'm not that smart and I can do all the same stuff (up to buying the movie from iTunes) with my mini which has an external BD drive and a couple of readily available (but not mainstream) pieces of software.

Do you get what I'm saying? Record labels allow the music scenario to exist because they made deals with Apple. They could have turned Apple down and refused to allow their catalogs to be sold on iTunes. They could strictly enforce the copyrights and prohibit the digital copying of cds in the same way that making digital copies of dvd or bd content is prohibited. They would have been profoundly stupid to turn Apple down because people would do it anyway and better for them to make money than to not.

Do you remember when Real Networks released software that would allow people to back up their own DVDs? It's easy not to remember because that software wasn't allowed to exist very long before the MPAA smacked Real down.

I stick by my original argument. If a half assed company like Syabas (no offense) can make the PCH, then a company with the resources of Apple can certainly make something better without breaking a sweat. But, the best hardware available to the mainstream by a high profile company isn't going to go anywhere until the producers and owners of the content agree to release said content in a way that isn't crippling and doesn't make everyone that possesses a criminal, and isn't unduly expensive.

And just for the record, the 3 PCH devices and 24 terabyte server I have in my house are only used to view and store HD home movies of my dog running around the backyard. I really like my dog.

John
 
Whether Apple will update it or not is simple. No. Look at the update time periods for their other products and then look at how long the AppleTV has languished. Unless Apple makes a major breakthrough with the production houses, or they are forced to due to parts becoming unobtainable, it isn't currently in the books.

On that note, I also don't see Apple abandoning the living room either. It's too valuable a marketplace, and Apple wants you using their media there as well.

One other thing - We are reaching a point where even the average user is being confronted with a storage problem. I think another reason Apple is hesitating on the living room is that with the explosion of visual media, RELIABLE storage is going to become a must have for all of this content. And one thing I've learned is that the average consumer doesn't ever place any weight on the 'reliable' portion of the equation until they have a storage media failure.

There's more Apple has to consider than the cheapest option for 1080p decoding. I think that is where LaLa, the server farm, and other things are going to come in to play. But one thing everyone must admit - between the storage issues, distribution over a pathetic infrastructure, and studios being cocks, the solution of a simple hardware update isn't as easy as some people want to believe.
 
You missed my point. <Major Snippage>

I didn't miss your point, I disagreed with it.

Do you really think Apple is intentionally withholding features from the AppleTV because Fox wants them to, or NBC, or whomever?

I say no way. These production companies aren't the only ones producing 1080p content. As you said, Apple is more than capable of creating the device and they could cite many, many valid reasons to do so. Like you with your dog, or me with my daughter, I have stuff I'd wanna put on an AppleTV that's not from a studio. The PS3, Xbox, WD's thing, and on and on, these are all major companies that compete with Apple and deal with the same production companies Apple does. If Sony can do it, why can't Apple? If Microsoft can do it, why can't Apple? It doesn't make sense to say Apple's sitting on the sidelines because Rupert Murdoch (or anyone else) wants him to...

The problem is with Apple. They have never, ever committed themselves to the AppleTV, calling it a hobby from Day 1. This has cost them in the short run and it will certainly hurt them down the road the longer they wait. Believe me, I'm hoping to be blown away by what they've got up their sleeves, but I've waited soooooo long already, I just can't wait much longer.
 
The PS3, Xbox, WD's thing, and on and on, these are all major companies that compete with Apple and deal with the same production companies Apple does. If Sony can do it, why can't Apple? If Microsoft can do it, why can't Apple?

Ok, we agree to disagree. That's fine. :) As for the examples of successful media players (Xbox/PS3/WD), I don't really consider any of them to be that successful, not in the way that Apple has been successful with their music endeavors. Ok, so the xbox can stream netflix and act as a Media Center Extender (which in and of itself is pretty crippled). I'm not too familiar with the PS3, so I can't really comment on that. The WD device is a lame also-ran compared to a Mediagate MG-800 (RIP) or a PCH A-110/C-200.

It's funny that you mentioned Sony, though. Of all the companies that are being discussed, they're the ONLY one that owns both the hardware side and the content side (don't forget they're a major studio). Also don't forget that the reason that Sony got into the content (music and movies) was so they could lock the market on whatever new generations of hardware that came out. They learned their lesson with the failure of Betamax. Guess what... they didn't fail when the HD-DVD/BD war was going on. Toshiba didn't own a major studio. Sony did.

To your point, no I don't think that Apple is withholding features on the ATV. I do think that until something happens to loosen up the stranglehold on content, then they won't give a **** about improving the hardware.

Either way, I personally don't care if they ever make a change to the ATV or if they stop making them tomorrow. All I'm using mine for is as an ipod for my main system. To me that's all it's good for so that's all I use it for. That was its intended purpose when I bought it. Of course when I first got the thing I checked out the movie features. It took me about 30 seconds to declare it "lame" and I went back to watching the home movies of my dog on my PCH.

John
 
The other companies who have released streamers aren't trying to sell content so they allow playback of all formats known to man. They are aware that a lot of people will be using illegally downloaded files, but "supporting" the playback of these files will help them sell their hardware. Now consider Apple - clearly they can released an ATV2 which supports high profile 1080p h.264 playback in a range of containers, but they are trying to make money from selling content AS WELL as selling hardware.

My money says that the tablet will focus on movies as a feature, so once that's out of the door, attention will turn to the ATV. The Macs must pretty much take care of themselves, the iphone 4G must be pretty much locked down so I think the living room will be the next big push and the tablet will slot into this market too along with an ATV2 and home media server.
 
Ok, we agree to disagree. That's fine. :)

Yeah, agreeing to disagree is alright by me. Hate it when people get all upset about such things. Not like any of us know the real story anyway.:)

Sony is interesting and I used them because they are the makers of the PS3, which many on this forum claim to be an excellent media center. They are a hardware and content supplier yet their format is open to all providers. Imagine a PS3 that wouldn't play Universal's or 20th Century Fox Blu-Ray discs? I think they know that the better hardware they put out, the more people will buy it. These locked down, proprietary players like the AppleTV aren't as successful as because they limit what the end user can do.

And I do agree that the PS3, Xbox and every other media player hasn't done what the iPod did for music. Nobody's even come close. Apple could give it a run though, if they just got the hardware right.

Maybe we'll see Wednesday, maybe not. All I know is that I've only got a few more weeks until I can get my mini and bypass the AppleTV all together. Unless something happens this week...;)
 
My take...

Wow! I am glad I am not the only one hoping Apple will update the ATV!!

I don't have one yet but am planning to get one once the hardware is updated...unless they refuse to do so, that will force me to get the new Boxee.

The way I see it, the rumored iPad/iSlate will let app store apps run full screen! What if the ATV will update its hardware so that the apps will run on your TV too?? You can then use your iphone or ipod touch as a controller for the games you play...in theory, i suppose, is possible, no?


The ATV can also act as a server/hub so that the tv shows/movies you have can be streamed to the new tablet device. Maybe an update will allow ATV to manage your iTunes TV subscriptions. Even when your mac is not powered on, it will download the latest episode of The Office to the ATV. When you get home...the show is ready to stream to your tablet and you can watch it anywhere in the home. No more syncing to the tablet's itunes to play the content because the iPad/iSlate, being a tablet device, storage has to be limited in my opinion, at least initially, to keep prices down, so storing all the movies/tv shows may not be suggested.

That's why your ATV is always on so that things can happen seamlessly ;)

I think this will be quite an ecosystem. This will definitely help apple to expand the living room presence...This will also help apple to sell ATV very quickly!
 
Maybe we'll see Wednesday, maybe not. All I know is that I've only got a few more weeks until I can get my mini and bypass the AppleTV all together. Unless something happens this week...;)

Yeah, you know... a Mini running Plex will probably blow the doors off of any possible ATV upgrade, since you can configure it how you want and play file formats that a mainstream product is not likely to support.

John
 
Gotta disagree with you here, John. Apple is not a company that gives in to anyone. I can't believe for a minute that they're going to be told what kind of hardware they can or can't make by a few production companies.

Apple first and foremost is a hardware company. These other companies producing media players aren't crippling them like Apple is. Apple's choice to limit their device is hampering their overall sales, both hardware and iTMS purchases alike. The tighter they play to the media companies, the more media player costumers they're going to lose.

I disagree to a point here. Apple has said many times that it is first and foremost a SOFTWARE company. Yes they developed and advanced iPods to sell Music on iTunes. They were very successful at this and as a result iTunes has become one of the largest Music stores, and that is including brick & mortar places like Walmart and BestBuy. The problem is that people in the Media industries (RIAA, etc.) feel that these digital downloads cannibalize their album (CD) sales. They don't like that iTunes gives you the ability to buy the one good song on some bands new release. The TV/Movie industry are very weary of giving apple that same power and fear a similar outcome for DVD/BD. Apple needs at least a couple of content providers to join them so they can build a new distribution platform and make it a market that other content providers are missing out on. They will likely have Disney onboard, and I think they also have a good chance to get Fox on board too. But this brings me back to my initial point is that Apple needs to re-work iTunes if Apple TV is ever going to be successful. They need to integrate a simple easy production environment in Logic Studio and Final Cut that will allow studios to produce, tag, create iTunes extras / LP content, enter synopsis, artwork, cinematic or episodic layouts, etc... that will allow companies to setup a content provider account with Apple and then publish content to iTunes within Apples production environments. They could even create a simple revenue split model like the App store for independent studios / artists that could be in their own section in iTunes. Apple should also develop the same type of revenue sharing model to allow subscription based podcasts to be published in the same manor. I'm not holding my breath for any of this, but I do think that one of the big announcements tomorrow will be a new iTunes ( Software, and service model ). And if that happens I just might buy an AppleTV ( if they updated it with new HW ).
 
The PS3, Xbox, WD's thing, and on and on, these are all major companies that compete with Apple and deal with the same production companies Apple does. If Sony can do it, why can't Apple? If Microsoft can do it, why can't Apple?

Apple is definitely restricting what AppleTV can and can't do. There are plenty of software mods that allow AppleTV to do a lot of things the it can't do out of the box. For example use the (disabled) USB port to connect an external HDD to add more storage to the device. You can guess why they did this when they originally had a 40GB option and a 160GB option. You would buy the 40GB version and spend the $99 difference on a 500GB external USB drive. As to MS & Sony, The PS3 media store blows and is even more expensive than iTunes. The Zune marketplace... yeah SOO amazing that I wish I could remove it from the latest 360 update. I do Agree with you there is no reason apple shouldn't update the hardware to allow for 1080p HD content, I really view this as a separate issue from the roles of content providers.
 
80% of people, at a minimum, want stuff like Apple TVs to make their lives easier and more connected. To use their kids' ski pictures as the screensaver and pull up They're Taking the Hobbits to Isengard! on youtube to make people laugh. To play their iTunes library and/or Internet radio for background noise.

20% of people, at maximum, want to hack, hack hack their hardware, put Linux on everything, prove what they can do, reach some state where they can hypothetically do a bunch of stuff they will in reality rarely do.

Like most companies, Apple will nod to the 20% but will focus on the 80%, as it should.

100% of those people would like to have Netflix, hulu and basic web browsing on the Apple TV. It has nothing to do with wanting to hack, it has to do with wanting to watch video on your TV screen.
 
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