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Tronic, some very good points. You obviously know what you're talking about. Everyone pay attention... this man SELLS these TVs, and he agrees that there is a "big ploy" to up-sell customers to 1080p... which wouldn't be beneficial to most customers under normal viewing conditions. He would know.

People looking for a new HDTV -- if they're educated -- should be looking for contrast ratio, black levels, refresh rate (on LCDs), noise levels, etc. if they're concerned with a quality image. Resolution is far down on the list... and frankly, its the lowest feature in terms of bang vs. buck. WAY too many people get conned into buying a lower end 1080p, when they would have been MUCH better off with a high-end 720p.

If you're looking for a plasma, I would suggest sticking with Panasonic, Samsung, or (if you can afford it) Pioneer. Plasmas have better viewing angles, contrast ratios, black levels, and over all picture quality than LCDs do. Image Retention and burn-in is no longer a significant problem with the modern plasmas.

If you're looking for an LCD, I would suggest sticking with Samsung, Sharp, or Sony. Get the model that judders the least during high-motion scenes, because most LCDs look DEPLORABLE in those situations.

For home living room situations, 90% of people would never get any benefit from 1080p. It's a complete waste of money. To pick a TV, you need to first define what kind of room you'll be watching in, how far you'll be sitting away, etc. Don't just get the expensive model with high numbers or you'll be kicking yourself in the end.

Now, if you're building a home theatre, this conversation needs to change a little.

If I was buying a TV right now, this is what I'd do.

Not buy a TV.

If I HAD to buy one, I'd by the 1080p Panasonic (not the Full HD). They are nearly one third of the price of the current Full HD models and very similar picture wise.

I know what you are thinking. This guy is crazy. Well my daughter might agree, but my reasoning is simple. Current Plasma & LCD TVs aren't very good. Give them a few years and you'll see what I mean. Some of the new technologies to look out for are:

• OLED http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-6449_7-6741419-1.html
• Laser
• FED
• SED http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-6449_7-6741419-1.html
 
If I was buying a TV right now, this is what I'd do.

Not buy a TV.

If I HAD to buy one, I'd by the 1080p Panasonic (not the Full HD). They are nearly one third of the price of the current Full HD models and very similar picture wise.

I know what you are thinking. This guy is crazy. Well my daughter might agree, but my reasoning is simple. Current Plasma & LCD TVs aren't very good. Give them a few years and you'll see what I mean. Some of the new technologies to look out for are:

• OLED http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-6449_7-6741419-1.html
• Laser
• FED
• SED http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-6449_7-6741419-1.html


Did you mean "I'd buy the 720p Panasonic (not the Full HD)."? If so, I agree. And that's exactly what I did after a TON of research. However, I'm not very keen on telling people to "just wait a few years" with technology. Sure, there are a ton of advancements just around the corner... but after that there will be just as many around the corner. Things are always changing, always adapting. There will always be something just around the corner. The key is to buy good stuff, and get the best bang for the buck whenever you buy anything. That's my philosophy anyway.
 
Did you mean "I'd buy the 720p Panasonic (not the Full HD)."? If so, I agree. And that's exactly what I did after a TON of research. However, I'm not very keen on telling people to "just wait a few years" with technology. Sure, there are a ton of advancements just around the corner... but after that there will be just as many around the corner. Things are always changing, always adapting. There will always be something just around the corner. The key is to buy good stuff, and get the best bang for the buck whenever you buy anything. That's my philosophy anyway.

No, I mean buy the 1080p, instead of the 1080i. Not sure if they actually sell 720 still. Both are HD, but most manufactures are ditching their non Full HD stock because the public believes it's cr@p. They'd like to have us believe that the full HD is "twice" as good and non full HD. Full HD is a just a ploy to get punters selling their old LCD or Plasma TVs.

Have you ever wondered why many stores won't display the same images on all TVs at the same time. (Some do). They usually run the media the manufactures give them, which is often nothing like the media we all watch. The reason they do this is if you display them all together, there isn't a huge amount of difference between models.

I'm not telling them NOT to buy if they need to. I'm saying, that technology of Plasm & LCD TVs plateaued recently and manufactures are ripping customers off by making them believe a new "full HD" TV will be so much better than what they currently own.

If it was me. I'd save $$$$$ by buying the less expensive model which I'd put towards a new set in the next 2-3 years, when I believe we'll see much better TVs than are on offer currently.

my 2c
 
No, I mean buy the 1080p, instead of the 1080i. Not sure if they actually sell 720 still. Both are HD, but most manufactures are ditching their non Full HD stock because the public believes it's cr@p. They'd like to have us believe that the full HD is "twice" as good and non full HD. Full HD is a just a ploy to get punters selling their old LCD or Plasma TVs.

Have you ever wondered why many stores won't display the same images on all TVs at the same time. (Some do). They usually run the media the manufactures give them, which is often nothing like the media we all watch. The reason they do this is if you display them all together, there isn't a huge amount of difference between models.

I'm not telling them NOT to buy if they need to. I'm saying, that technology of Plasm & LCD TVs plateaued recently and manufactures are ripping customers off by making them believe a new "full HD" TV will be so much better than what they currently own.

If it was me. I'd save $$$$$ by buying the less expensive model which I'd put towards a new set in the next 2-3 years, when I believe we'll see much better TVs than are on offer currently.

my 2c

720p is still widely available at 50" and less. I just got mine a few months ago. It is a 2008 model from Panasonic. Samsung, Pioneer, and others also have many 720p models 50" and less. I think Cnet's top editor's choice TV is still the Pioneer 50" 720p set.
 
fivepoint,

You seem to have a sound knowledge of HD resolutions, so I have a few questions for you.

1. What is the best resolution to select on the Apple TV for a 1080p capable 37" LCD TV? This seems like a no-brainer, but I am hesitant due to my reasoning below.

2. My movies are encoded using Handbrake from DVD, at the standard Apple TV preset with 2-pass enabled. Will setting the Apple TV resolution to 1080p decrease the quality of these movies when viewed on an Apple TV because they are not HD quality?

Thanks for any advice you can offer.
 
fivepoint,

You seem to have a sound knowledge of HD resolutions, so I have a few questions for you.

1. What is the best resolution to select on the Apple TV for a 1080p capable 37" LCD TV? This seems like a no-brainer, but I am hesitant due to my reasoning below.

2. My movies are encoded using Handbrake from DVD, at the standard Apple TV preset with 2-pass enabled. Will setting the Apple TV resolution to 1080p decrease the quality of these movies when viewed on an Apple TV because they are not HD quality?

Thanks for any advice you can offer.

1. For a 1080p set, I would set the AppleTV on its highest settings... regardless of anything else.

2. No. They should look perfect. If you had a 720p TV I would have to ask you which manufacturer it was from, how old it was, to determine which settings to use... but because yours is a 1080p, it's that simple. Set the AppleTV to its highest setting, and be done with it.

P.S. Enjoy handbrake/AppleTV It's a fantastic setup.
 
No, I mean buy the 1080p, instead of the 1080i. Not sure if they actually sell 720 still. Both are HD, but most manufactures are ditching their non Full HD stock because the public believes it's cr@p. They'd like to have us believe that the full HD is "twice" as good and non full HD. Full HD is a just a ploy to get punters selling their old LCD or Plasma TVs.

Have you ever wondered why many stores won't display the same images on all TVs at the same time. (Some do). They usually run the media the manufactures give them, which is often nothing like the media we all watch. The reason they do this is if you display them all together, there isn't a huge amount of difference between models.

I'm not telling them NOT to buy if they need to. I'm saying, that technology of Plasm & LCD TVs plateaued recently and manufactures are ripping customers off by making them believe a new "full HD" TV will be so much better than what they currently own.

If it was me. I'd save $$$$$ by buying the less expensive model which I'd put towards a new set in the next 2-3 years, when I believe we'll see much better TVs than are on offer currently.

my 2c


I thought that 1080p was full HD?

And, you can still get the 720p Panny 11uk for $1100 shipped.
 
1. For a 1080p set, I would set the AppleTV on its highest settings... regardless of anything else.

2. No. They should look perfect. If you had a 720p TV I would have to ask you which manufacturer it was from, how old it was, to determine which settings to use... but because yours is a 1080p, it's that simple. Set the AppleTV to its highest setting, and be done with it.

P.S. Enjoy handbrake/AppleTV It's a fantastic setup.

The only problem with setting it to 1080P is that the ATV will reset to 720P when you switch inputs on the TV then back to the ATV. Frickin' annoying. For this reason I leave it on 1080i as it sticks.
 
One problem I am having is the loading time for playing a movie that is stored on my Mac, but not on the Apple TV. I have the Apple TV set to sync photos, but stream everything else from my Mac. When I select a movie to play on the Apple TV, it takes very long to load - I gave up after 10 mins of loading time for one film and even tried others. These films are all encoded using the latest version of Handbrake with the Apple TV preset.

However, when I purchased Zoolander directly from the Apple TV, it started downloading immediately, and playback began within 15 seconds.

Any tips or advice?

1. For a 1080p set, I would set the AppleTV on its highest settings... regardless of anything else.

2. No. They should look perfect. If you had a 720p TV I would have to ask you which manufacturer it was from, how old it was, to determine which settings to use... but because yours is a 1080p, it's that simple. Set the AppleTV to its highest setting, and be done with it.

P.S. Enjoy handbrake/AppleTV It's a fantastic setup.

Many thanks fivepoint. I am quite pleased with the quality now that I have had the time to play around with it.

The only problem with setting it to 1080P is that the ATV will reset to 720P when you switch inputs on the TV then back to the ATV. Frickin' annoying. For this reason I leave it on 1080i as it sticks.

It doesn't do this with me. I switched from using the Apple TV, to playing the Wii through composite, then to Sky on Scart, and then back to the Apple TV tonight to watch a movie, and the 1080p stuck from the initial setup. Perhaps this is only with some movies?

David
 
Turn off your TV or receiver then go back to the ATV. It will have reset to 720P.

Both my ATV's take about 5 seconds to buffer and start a movie or TV show. They are both wireless connected to an Airport Extreme that is set to wireless N 5ghz only. My Mac is hard wired into the APX.

Are your ATV's wired or wireless? If wireless, are they connected via wireless B,G, or N?
 
I tried switching off all of the equipment and it is still firmly stuck on 1080p.

As for connections, my Mac is connected to a D-Link Wireless base station (802.11g) running at 54mbps. The Apple TV is also connected to both the Mac and router wirelessly.
 
Wireless G is probably too slow in your house. There's probably other wireless networks and interference slowing down your connection. You could try manually changing the channels on the AP but the best way is to either hard wire the ATV of move to wireless N which is on the 5ghz band and has less interference.
 
I have both PS3 and ATV.

I use both. PS3 mainly for Blu-Ray movies and ATV for rentals. Quite frankly I think ATV HD movies look fantastic on my 106" screen. The selection of movies is great and the interface is very easy.

The PS3 is better in terms of quality but the movies are too expensive to rent.
 
I was just copying files from my iTunes directory to an external drive. Looking at the file information, didn't I see that the resolution was 640x360 or, in other words, half of 720p? These were TV shows I bought off of the iTunes store using Apple TV. Yes, quality isn't perfect, but a lot better than you might expect. Amazing really. I haven't rented much, but what I have looked considerably better. BTW, I have an old rear projection HD with 1080i.

I guess what I'm saying, is if you are going to Handbrake your stuff, it's probably going to be way better quality than 360p, and will look fine. And yes, my eyes aren't bad; I'm the type that can not only read that sign from across the room, but can read the fine print that tells who printed it.

I find the TV show quality Apple chose to be a little disappointing. They could have set their sights a little higher, but maybe they were worried they couldn't deliver video that would play right away.

Don't know what this means, but I almost didn't buy an Apple TV because I went to the Apple store on 5th in NY and they were playing a movie on an LCD and I thought it looked terrible. I think this was pre "HD" upgrade to Apple TV (early January 2008). BTW, Apple TV is my only video source short of a rarely used upconvert DVD player.
 
didn't I see that the resolution was 640x360 or, in other words, half of 720p? These were TV shows I bought off of the iTunes store using Apple TV.
Right, those tv shows you buy are universal in that they are to play on everything from a 5G iPod to the AppleTV. So they are encoded to the lowest common denominator and really do not show the capabilities of the AppleTV.
 
It's all in the contrast ratio. I'll take a 720i with a 8,000 - 15,000 to 1 contrast ratio over a 1080i with a 1,500 to 5,000 to 1 contrast ratio any day. In fact, you'll find that the prices of tvs will be directly related to the contrast ratio.
 
Most important for image quality on new HDTV sets. 5 and 6 are debatable. you could switch them, I suppose.

(Most Important)
1. High Quality Source
2. Contrast Ratio
3. Refresh Rate (LCDs Only)
4. Color Saturation
5. Color Accuracy
6. Resolution
(Least Important)
 
I'd say #2 is black level. A lot of LCD's claim a high contrast ration but have a terrible black level. It washes out the picture and the blacks are a muddy grey.
 
fivepoint-

Im going to be buying a tv very very soon right now and have been going back and forth between lcd and plasma and many different models. I am going back to plasma right now and like the Panasonic TH42PX80U. Its either that model or for a little more there is the TH42PX85U. The picture quality and contrast ratio is higher on the better model. What are your thoughts or anyone's thoughts on these two sets!
 
I'd say #2 is black level. A lot of LCD's claim a high contrast ration but have a terrible black level. It washes out the picture and the blacks are a muddy grey.

'Black level' is part of contrast ratio. You can't take the set's 'offical' contrast ratio as the bible, you have to look at it with your own eyes to some point. I agree 100%. Black levels are very important... many sets, especially LCDS look GRAY instead of black.
 
fivepoint-

Im going to be buying a tv very very soon right now and have been going back and forth between lcd and plasma and many different models. I am going back to plasma right now and like the Panasonic TH42PX80U. Its either that model or for a little more there is the TH42PX85U. The picture quality and contrast ratio is higher on the better model. What are your thoughts or anyone's thoughts on these two sets!

By the two models you've got it narrowed down to, I'd say you've already done your homework. Either model will suit you well. I've heard opinions both ways, some saying they can't see any difference at all and that it's just a marketing difference, and others that say they like the 85 model a little better.

If you can, look at them both in the store and see if you can see a difference. The THPX80u line is considered by most "pros" to be probably the best "bang for the buck" set for 2008. The price is amazing for what you get.
 
Right, those tv shows you buy are universal in that they are to play on everything from a 5G iPod to the AppleTV. So they are encoded to the lowest common denominator and really do not show the capabilities of the AppleTV.

Which is something Apple needs to seriously stop doing. There is no reason to cripple the quality of their media for the 5th gen iPod.

The new movies are all now encoded using the new anamorphic spec. So should the TV shows.
 
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