The Mac Pro would do better with better TB device support. Apple needs to consider selling affordable TB4/5 device controllers. TB adoption has been slow because Intel dominates the supply chain. ASMedia has a chip now that is making inroads but it took forever to get to market.
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Apple's 2025 M4 Mac Pro: What to Expect
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Outside of Apple's SoC TB implementation, doesn't Apple also just use Intel chips (i.e. Timing chips) even now?
I put my head back for a brief nap ~~~[ M4 max is announced that is the same die size as the M3 max but has 2 ANU's truly doubling the M3 Ai performance. Interestingly, it also has no fusion strip. M4 Ultra is announced! Lo and behold it has FOUR ANU's and scales nearly linearly from the M4 Max, because it is on a single die. But ooh- this one DOES have a fusion strip. Then in 2025- Mac Pro is announced with M4 extreme, and as speculated, it has two fused m4 ultra chips at about 1.75 scaling, and of course 8 ANU's. Apple implements a caching system that allows LLM's that would normally require 512GB of RAM to run on 128GB systems, smartly utilizing both the GPU , shared memory and powerful ANU array. The cherry on the top? Apple announces a partnership with AMD for a scaled down version of their MI300 chip to be added as an expansion card for on device training and local LLM execution. Mac Pro price starts at $5,999 and accelerator card is $4,999)~~~~ Cat wakes me up by walking on my keyboard as I wait for the next Mac Pro that can't host Nvidia AI cards, costs $7k and is the same speed as the studio....
And on that AI card dream - even better would be a card with an apple silicon chip that just has a ton of ANUs, and sufficient A19 cores to schedule them. It would be cheaper, and could focus more on inferencing. they could also license Googles Coral for ASIC like training cores.
I think there is zero chance of Apple shipping a platform for a 3rd party AI accelerator.
There is definitely a chance they will ship their own PCIe AI accelerator, but even that is unlikely?
If Apple did, it would be wild to see it used on a Mac mini via Thunderbolt
Supposedly, more people are buying Mac Pros than Mac minis, iMacs, and Mac Studios.
I have a great deal of difficulty believing those numbers, and Apple won't release confirmed ones.
I don't. When was the last time you saw a Mac mini or iMac in someone's home?
Unsure off the top of my head. Not entirely sure what difference it makes. It's either a larger number or a REALLY larger number.
Very recently as I am writing this on a Mac mini. I have never seen a Mac Pro in someone's home.
Super often, a lot of friends and fam have them and as volunteer EMS I used to (not active right now) see both of them often in people’s homes too.
Like, dude, the base model mini gets as low as $350-$400 at costco, they’re cheap enough to be impulse buys, and additionally I see tons of imacs at front counters in various businesses and there are tons of racked minis as build machines available on several cloud providers.
I have serious doubts that the $7k (starting) machine that most consumers dont even know exists outsells the $400 costco sale machine
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The CIRP numbers don’t support it either. Mac Studio/Pro are about the same as iMac/Mini, around 5% of total sales each. Their methods don’t seem to account for the education market, and they lack any insight into Apple’s direct sales, so not exactly definitive.
I think most households/workloads that have a Studio/Pro also have MacBooks and/or iPads in a supporting role, while the opposite is obviously not always true. May be somewhat less so for iMacs, for budget reasons. The Mini is a chameleon, especially now in the Studio Display era.
My initial reaction to @Yebubbleman’s assertion was “2004 called and they want their Power Mac G5 back…”
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The recent source, and the one discussed on ATP, was regarding this article:
MacBook Pro and MacBook Air overwhelmingly drive Apple Mac sales
New research claims to have details on exactly how dominant MacBook Pro and MacBook Air sales are, versus desktop contemporaries.
appleinsider.com
Regarding this Consumer Intelligence Research Partners (CIRP) report image:
Which makes some sense regarding laptops...
But I don't find the desktop numbers believable.
Worse, I think those numbers are supposed to be "units", not "revenue" or "profits".
Well, I can believe the iMac is the best selling Apple desktop. But from # units (as opposed to revenue) I find the Mac Pro numbers to be suspicious. Was there a concern on how CIRP runs their survey?The recent source, and the one discussed on ATP, was regarding this article:
MacBook Pro and MacBook Air overwhelmingly drive Apple Mac sales
New research claims to have details on exactly how dominant MacBook Pro and MacBook Air sales are, versus desktop contemporaries.
Regarding this Consumer Intelligence Research Partners (CIRP) report image:
Which makes some sense regarding laptops...
But I don't find the desktop numbers believable.
Worse, I think those numbers are supposed to be "units", not "revenue" or "profits".
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I've seen one, but it was a long time ago. (Pre-trashcan intel.) I am using a studio now, and see very little that a Mac pro can do that a studio can't. (What can actually go in those slots?). So I too find it very hard to believe that anyone is buying Mac Pros.
- NVMe SSD / RAID cards
- Networking / Fibre Channel cards
- Audio I/O & DSP cards
- Video I/O & DSP cards
I had an early 2008 Mac Pro as a home general use system. It was quite expensive, and of course didn't come with a monitor, but if you wanted a machine built to last (workstation class), high performance, with expansion bay for drives and add your own 3rd party RAM, it was nice. IIRC, I had some trouble with 3rd party RAM at one point, had a 3rd party drive fail, and the Super Drive itself eventually failed, but on the whole, that Mac was my main system from 2008 till 2017, and once I got my current 2017 iMac, I used it casually at a work site for a couple more years or so.
I wouldn't dream of buying a current Mac Pro at current prices.
Even with internal expansion bays, systems don't last indefinitely. Processors get outdated, PCI standards evolve, RAM gets faster, external connection standards evolve (e.g.: SCSI to Thunderbolt), Apple stops releasing security updates and the system can't handle the new Mac OS versions, etc... That said, if Apple offered a $100 upgrade option for a taller chassis with a single internal bay for a user installable 3rd party SSD, I might take them up on that!
It's entirely possible given the number of reburished Mac Pros in the Apple Store. When companies buy these, they tend to buy 30+ at a time.
I truly believe that the Mac Pro M2 version, sells so much more than many of us may realize (myself included), mainly to companies which just write it off. Look at the 2019 Mac Pro's from Facebook. Who knew they had tons of those hard at work with all those spares sitting around that were then sold off.
Big companies buy large amounts of Mac Pros for even more mundane computing tasks. Plus, 192GB of VRAM is a big deal for graphic card workflows that need that kind of VRAM. Saves time and money over other solutions.
When the M4 comes out, it will be just as popular if not more then the M2 version. The M2 Mac Pro had shipping delays very soon after it went on sale, because of so many sales.
Big companies buy large amounts of Mac Pros for even more mundane computing tasks. Plus, 192GB of VRAM is a big deal for graphic card workflows that need that kind of VRAM. Saves time and money over other solutions.
When the M4 comes out, it will be just as popular if not more then the M2 version. The M2 Mac Pro had shipping delays very soon after it went on sale, because of so many sales.
Current leading rumor has both the next Mac Studio and Mac Pro debuting with M5 processors in 2025, and said processors would be built from desktop-specific "Hidra" chips; singles, duals, and possibly quads...
Me, I want to see a new Mac Pro Cube... ;^p
Me, I want to see a new Mac Pro Cube... ;^p
But the Mac Studio has those same specs, for $3,000 less.
The Mac Studio is… almost that.