Apple doesn't use Ireland to avoid or evade paying taxes. They use it to delay paying taxes.
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Apple's Decision to Disable Web Apps Attracts Scrutiny in EU
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So some thoughts:
-Cloud: How did it miss cloud? and how does it benefit consumers? Aws is the leader in cloud. Google and MS are just playing catchup. How am I benefited by cloud that is not being done already.
-iot: how did apple miss out on iot? Do you think apple should be producing wireless thermostats?
- caros: not sure this really matters, but okay you’re right.
- container tech: again end user benefit.
-ai: exactly what is the competition doing that is really really a game changer with ai? I am not talking about baseball scores here.
It’s an opinion, a strong one. It’s not nonsense. Facebook already threatened.
Not really. It's just classic tax evasion.
Is it legal to use loopholes? Eh, probably yes, I'm not a lawyer or professional in tax avoidance.
Is it moral or okay? Definitely not.
You're just linking to a political accusation. Apple uses Irish tax law to create a "stateless" holding company. They don't pay taxes on the money booked into that company since it is not affiliated with any country. However, as soon as they want to spend that money or book it as profits, they pay taxes on it in whatever country it is used or booked (usually the US.)
As I said, taxes are delayed, not avoided. And certainly not tax evasion, since they are following Irish law.
The "research" is made up for shock value. They're just using numbers that assume that all revenue generated in the EU will be booked in the EU. That's not reality. In accordance with international tax law, the majority of the revenue is booked in the country where the value is created. For Apple, that's obviously the US.
I've also linked second article
"For example, in 2014, for every $1 million of profit that Apple earned from its European operations, Apple paid $50 tax in Europe: an effective tax rate of 0.005%." -- source: https://www.dw.com/en/apple-ireland-tax-avoidance/a-54274213
That's hardly delayed tax. 0.005% tax is nothing of normal. As said before - using loopholes in not necessarily illegal. It's definitely not moral nor okay. 0.005% tax is not standard thing in the EU for those wondering.
Did you read my post? I already explained that. It's a made up number. And the fact that the sentence that you are quoting confuses revenue and profit speaks to the veracity of the article.
„the Commission opened a qualitative market investigation pursuant to article 3(8) DMA into iPadOS to determine whether iPadOS, despite not meeting the quantitative thresholds, constitutes a gateway for business users to reach end users.“
If customers can subscribe and manage their subscription in -app and they can lower prices and/or provide more/better service due to decreased intermediary charges, that helps consumers.
It‘s as simple as that.
The EU didn’t. You’re making up hypothetical arguments out of thin air.
What if Apple increased their commission rates to 80% or 95%?
Would you still argue it‘s their platform and freedom to do eo?
Yes. And it's the developers right to pull their apps. And my reason is that there is no monopoly. As everyone who said the EU would be fine if Apple left has made abundantly clear, Android is perfectly capable. In fact in the EU, Android is on ~60% of phones already.
I call BS on taxes deleyed as look what happen as soon as they could get a window of forgiveness to bring the money home and then they turned around and gave it to share holders instead of oh I dont know spending on improving the compnany.
Apple was not the only one doing that. They gave a tax holiday and company brought money home and then guess what they decided to move even more money into that stateless state and refuse to do anything waiting on the next tax holiday.
Personally I go with removing that loop hole that multiple company are using and abusing. I also am for changing US tax law to be territory based instead of world wide based. That also means no tax credit on foreign paid taxes but any money leaving the US is taxed before it crosses the border. If it is going to say a stateless state like that then they tax it as 100% pure profit when it is leaving. Let the US get its tax instead of companies abusing the loop hole and using the dutch Irish squeeze with imagenary money.
I have no idea what that has to do with the tax deferment. As soon as they bring the money home to give to their shareholders, they pay taxes on it in the US.
The deferred taxes are listed on their financial reports.
That's not true. Apple has been regularly repatriating funds since the 2018 corporate tax rate decrease. I think the last repatriation tax holiday was in 2004.
The US does get the vast majority of the tax revenue. That's why the EU is complaining.
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There is an Apple monopoly for distribution of iOS apps to consumers/the public (such as pointed out as follows: „Apple exercises considerable market power in the distribution of music streaming apps to owners of Apple devices. On that market, Apple has a monopoly“). iOS itself forming a near duopoly with Android.
As such, it is good and justified to institute rules and limitations on Apple‘s behaviour - especially where it stifles competition for services or applications further „downstream“ (installable on iOS).
…but would then constitute a monopoly in mobile OS.
Both situations (Apple being able to do, charge and control distribution for everything as they please, as well as an Android monopoly) are undesirable for society and the tens of thousands of business users depending on mobile smartphone platforms. That’s why they’re being regulated - but only to a certain, carefully considered and limited degree. Apple or Google are not expropriated.
Apple leaving the EU market is a lose-lose scenario. Customers would have less choice and Apple would make less money.
It's also worth nothing that the whole world is likely watching Apple's response to the DMA (and the EU's response to that) before deciding on what sort of legislation to implement in their own countries.
In this regard, I am reminded of the phrase "kill one to warn a hundred". Apple leaving a market might make them less money in the short run (and no doubt draw a ton of condemnation), but if they can prove that they are willing to not compromise on their platform where it counts, it may dissuade other countries from trying to implement similar policies. After all, if even the EU has shown that they can't effectively rein Apple in, then what chance does a smaller, less influential nation have?
Android OEMs would rejoice, no doubt. The market is effectively theirs for the taking. Exiting the market probably won't be Apple's first option, but I don't dare to say that they will never leave a market and simply capitulate to whatever legislation comes hurling their way. Surely there must be a line or breaking point somewhere where Apple decides that the opportunity cost of complying with regulation is just not worth staying on?
If and when Apple decides to just take their ball and go home, just don't act surprised if you all didn't see it coming.
Or, if the EU "survives" such a withdrawal, other governments may decide Apple isn't that important, and legislate anyway.
It could go either way.
The EU is not alone in considering this type of legislation - it's just the farthest ahead.
Possible. It could go either way, just like the epic trial. My country is actually going the other direction with regards to android and sideloading in a bid to stem the recent spate of scam victims.
Nearly 2,000 victims fell for Android malware scams, at least S$34.1 million lost in 2023
The majority of victims were aged 30 to 49, and were most frequently targeted on Facebook and Instagram.
Because it’s totally not an option that companies could settle for less profit… or what?
Edit: note that we’re not talking about a company that needs to cover expenses here to hit zero and avoid a deficit. We are talking more about choosing between 1 or 1.1 trillion profit
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It would be very ironical though. Apple happily bowing down to the Chinese government and implementing anti-privacy changes just to stay on the Chinese market yet leaving EU market (Apple's 2nd biggest) because of DMA which gives more freedom to its customers?
It would pretty nicely show what is important for Apple and that privacy it isn't.
There is no irony here. Apple will only give up control of their App Store kicking and screaming. China has never challenged them in this regard.
If you are Apple, you would do the exact same thing.
Again. China has set rules just like EU. They were different type of rules of course, they were anti-privacy weakening the security and encryption of the customers data.
And Apple agreed and implemented them just to stay on the China market.
Not implementing EU rules (and potentially leaving the EU market) would clearly say Apple is okay with anti-privacy rules set by Chinese gov yet it's a no go to give users more choice from the marketplace or app choice point of view. That would be ironical, because Apple marketing is hugely invested in privacy.
I would be willing bet everything I own against you that apple will never leave the EU because of legislation changes imposed by the Commission.
There are 3 huge relevant markets for Apple: US, China and EU. Leaving EU would be an absolutely incredible loss for Apple and that just to send the message that they don't want to follow legislation. And for who is that message? China and US? like apple could afford to do anything against these 2 markets anyway. He is right, it is a lose-lose scenario for Apple with nothing to gain in the long run anyway.