I think we live in an era in which this isn’t a logical fallacy anymore.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Apple's iPhone scanning scandal and the Mac
- Thread starter Blue Quark
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
If only people were willing to dedicate this much effort to combating the actual challenges facing our society.
Yes, but that is only one of the uses.
See also the following link which is more appropriate for what is going on in this thread:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope
Last edited:
Sure, though there's a key difference.
Slippery Slope logical fallacy involves concluding that Z will occur if A occurs when there's no evidence that the intervening B>C>D>...>X>Y>Z will occur. Essentially, the fallacy is concluding that "If A then Z" when there is no evidence of the intervening chain of events being true.
In contrast @bobcomer expressed a concern regarding the possibility of future adverse scenario based (presumably) on the potential for misusing "A" and also on other parallel scenarios in which a seemingly innocuous privacy invasion ended up being used against people as well as the fact that the authorities do screw up and wrongly incarcerate innocent people.
tl;dr - saying "A means Z will happen" is a logical fallacy. Saying "A causes me concern about a possibly higher chance of Z happening" isn't necessarily a fallacy.
The loss of digital privacy is an actual challenge facing our society.
Well said. I'm just worried about the possibility and I think it sets a bad precedent -- I'm a worrier by nature, that's why I make a good IT guy. But I'm not worried about a logical fallacy problem, if A then Z, this is real stuff. If I knew it would happen, I'd close my iCloud account after deleting everything, throw away my apple devices after destroying them, and I'd leave MR immediately, it's way too public.
Many people have foolishly locked themselves into the Apple ecosystem by believing all or most of what was spouting from Cupertino and Cook himself. Walking away immediately is not feasible for many but if they are serious they should start to walk away and put a serious plan in place to finish the journey ASAP. The best way to get Cooks attention is for him to see an ever decreasing revenue stream.
Always always always have an exit plan. If there’s any takeaway from this ********, it’s always have an exit. It’s become apparent that Apple, like other companies can take away everything they promise at a moment’s notice.
I believe we, as Apple fans, had forgot that. At least I did anyway.
I wonder if the market for alternatives to iCloud will now open up and flourish. I don’t think anyone would have had any issues with this new tech if the scanning was not taking place on-device, but given that it is, clearly people want to keep away from it. It does sometimes pay to be paranoid - “I’m not hiding in a box because I’m paranoid, I’m hiding in a box because if they know where you are they can get you”.
As I’ve mentioned before I had beeen under the assumption that Apple was already doing CSAM scanning like Google etc. What I was shocked and disturbed to find out was how many reports of CSAM Facebook had detected and reported - over 20 million in a year! - I don’t recall seeing that resulting in hundreds of arrests, let alone thousands or millions. Is this whole CSAM scanning actually serving any real purpose? Maybe I’m just out of the news loop for this. It would be good to know if it was actually working at any level.
As I’ve mentioned before I had beeen under the assumption that Apple was already doing CSAM scanning like Google etc. What I was shocked and disturbed to find out was how many reports of CSAM Facebook had detected and reported - over 20 million in a year! - I don’t recall seeing that resulting in hundreds of arrests, let alone thousands or millions. Is this whole CSAM scanning actually serving any real purpose? Maybe I’m just out of the news loop for this. It would be good to know if it was actually working at any level.
probably will not matter.
Messaging and Chat Control
The End of the Privacy of Digital Correspondence The EU decided to let providers search all private chats, messages, and emails automatically for suspicious content - generally and indiscriminately. The stated aim: To prosecute child pornography. The result: Mass surveillance by means of fu
www.patrick-breyer.de
There are already alternatives to iCloud, they scan for CSAM too. If you don't want your photos scanned for CSAM, store them only on your own devices such as a NAS on your home network.
If you want full digital privacy, don't use email. Only communicate over end2end encrypted message services. Delete any Google, Facebook or other online accounts. In fact use no Google products or services. Only connect to the internet via a VPN from a Laptop running a a secure Linux Distro. Definitely don't use a smartphone.
In order to lose something you must first possess it. We have never had digital privacy.
Given the new developments in the law initiatives, there is a real chance that e2e encrypted messengers will become essentially illegal.
Which should trigger the fiercest ****storm ever
It definitely should, but so far there just been only some “concerns” on more or less obscure tech forums and even that seems to have mostly calmed down. Go figure.
I am aware; I agree. I don‘t get why this is. People do not seem to value freedom any more
I think some of this becomes cyclical in that we get too far removed from the last major real "fight" (as in physical war) for the freedoms and liberties we enjoy and people take it all for granted.
So many younger people I meet don't know their ass from their elbow on history and how so many things got to where they are now.
People very mistakenly think "things can't or won't change" (for the worse)
And only **** over law abiding citizens. You can’t ban math, and people trading illegal material will just use those channels anyway.
Politicians across the world don’t care though. They don’t understand technology and are more concerned with growing their own power.
I think it’s because the subject seems so immaterial and difficult to grasp. Talk about the police coming to your home and rummaging through your drawers and everyone will be reaching for pitchforks, but surveillance of digital communication just seems so… ephemeral. And of course, most folks will be “well I’ve got nothing to hide”. In the end, you’ll have some middle aged guys rummaging through pictures of boobs that a horny 15 year old sends to her teen boyfriend/girlfriend because it has triggered an ML child porn filter, possibly involving the police and basically creating a lot of discomfort for everyone involved (except probably for the middle aged guy reviewing the photo). What kind of benefit can be gathered from that, frankly I have no idea.
I’ve often been reprimanded for my “radical” idea that the sword of damocles should be a thing, albeit a last resort. But what are we to do when it’s apparent that our liberties are being eroded? Are we supposed to just wait until the rules are changed and we find ourselves criminals?
True. I guess that is what I was trying to convey: people seem to take freedom for granted. They do not seem to want to see the dangers to it, which are clearly there.
I‘m shocked Apple is now one of the biggest dangers. How could they do this??
Last edited:
This doesn't work for E2EE unless the providers have the keys. And if they do, it makes E2EE pointless.
I'm happy to use illegal technology then and there's nothing anyone can do about it.
