Apple’s “machining tolerances” have really gone down the crapper in recent years.

[wry]

MacBook just came out of repair and I noticed that the power button/Touch ID sensor has a small nick on the top edge, and the Apple Store employees and manager said that it was considered within normal machining tolerances.

Really sucks because I personally would not tolerate this in the slightest, but oh well.

 

[Sheepish-Lord]

Interesting but yeah I sent in a MBA M1 to have a screen replaced due to a dead pixel and when it came back the hinge was just not smooth as new and would lift the laptop up. Maybe it would have broken in, who knows, but I know Apple would have given me the same “tolerances” talk so I traded it in a few weeks later.

 

[jav6454]

MacBook just came out of repair and I noticed that the power button/Touch ID sensor has a small nick on the top edge, and the Apple Store employees and manager said that it was considered within normal machining tolerances.

Really sucks because I personally would not tolerate this in the slightest, but oh well.

Depends on the design tolerances. However, I would personally not be bothered by it.

 

[wry]

Depends on the design tolerances. However, I would personally not be bothered by it.

I suffer from a form of obsessive-compulsive disorder in which tiny imperfections on brand new products really bother me psychologically, even if such defects are "within tolerance" or don't impact functionality. People have suggested to me that I should work in quality control, but I feel as if under my supervision a lot of waste would be created due to having absolutely zero tolerance for anything varying by even 100 micrometers (approximately the width of a human hair). Ah well, guess I can expect that when there's a global supply chain and worker shortage.

Even then, it wouldn't be covered under the limited warranty unless "failure has occurred due to a defect in materials or workmanship, so I guess it can't be helped unless the thing were to crack or stop working.

Guess I can just fill it in with a UV curing black resin if I really wanted to.

 

[jav6454]

Understandable, but in manufacturing you will always have tolerances. That's the nature of things. The day you can make a product perfect 100%, you can bet a company will make obscene amounts of money as you will stop having losses in remanufacturing, rework, raw materials and get rid of an entire department.

 

[wry]

Upon closer inspection, it's not a dent but rather a small bump. Like a tiny grain of sand got trapped in the mould. Which I can tolerate.

 

[FrozenDarkness]

i totally know what you mean. i'm ocd and would be bothered by stuff like this too.

 

[ThunderSkunk]

Thats not a matter of tolerances, and that isn’t a machined part. Apple Store Man is just saying words he heard once. But i see you’ve got to the bottom of it.

 

[Sterkenburg]

For what it's worth, you have my sympathy. I am also in that small group of people who can and do notice ~0.1mm-scale marks on items, so I understand what you mean.

However, minuscule imperfections are the norm in mass-produced products. Yes, even premium ones like Macs (it's the price to pay if we want to have electronics manufactured at scale). so we just have to learn to live with it and keep our OCD at bay. Think of it as just being a microscopic bump and not a damage (scratch or dent) and you'll be fine

 

[chabig]

I suffer from a form of obsessive-compulsive disorder in which tiny imperfections on brand new products really bother me psychologically

If you wait a few weeks until it isn't brand new any more, you should be ok. This happens to me when I buy a car. It's beautiful and flawless, but soon collects small dents and dings, and I realize that such things can't be helped.

 

[beeftick]

I spent two years working for Apple and an Apple Certified Servicer as a technician. When your computer goes into the store for repair, the parts they receive from Apple to replace a motherboard (for example) are refrubished. We once got a brand "new" motherboard in for a customer's macbook repair and it was full of dust, debris and what looked like dog hair. Unacceptable.

I don't know if Apple is still doing this, but starting in 2017 they send all Macbooks to an Apple repair center in Texas to get repaired. They rarely do Macbook repairs in store anymore.

Don't even get me started on the Apple Service Manager that they assign your store. They are all Stanford grads who have no idea what it is like to be in the "trenches" of repair. They just get snotty when you go against their big binder of Apple policies because it was better for the customer....

In sun, Apple makes a decent product but working for them is a disaster if you aren't a CalTech grad of Machine Learning in their Infinite Loop office. Everyone else is just a plebian.

 

[TSE]

I suffer from a form of obsessive-compulsive disorder in which tiny imperfections on brand new products really bother me psychologically, even if such defects are "within tolerance" or don't impact functionality. People have suggested to me that I should work in quality control, but I feel as if under my supervision a lot of waste would be created due to having absolutely zero tolerance for anything varying by even 100 micrometers (approximately the width of a human hair). Ah well, guess I can expect that when there's a global supply chain and worker shortage.

Even then, it wouldn't be covered under the limited warranty unless "failure has occurred due to a defect in materials or workmanship, so I guess it can't be helped unless the thing were to crack or stop working.

Guess I can just fill it in with a UV curing black resin if I really wanted to.

Not taking your issue lightly, because if there really was a problem I would call Apple out on it. My advice to you is to figure out a way to cope with the nick on the key. It'll be more efficient time and energy spent than worrying about it and trying to get Apple to fix it for you in something that really is hardly noticeable to the average person.

@beeftick I hardly see how your post is relevant to this thread. What greater point are you trying to make?

 

[spiderman0616]

I've had a mixed bag in this regard from Apple. I do not suffer from OCD, but I do have severe anxiety that can sort of present like OCD sometimes. Fortunately, after talking to a counselor and getting on the right anxiety medication, it is no longer an issue. So things like a not 100% perfect gap in one little spot or a little nick in a key isn't going to bother me these days. And even if it does, I will likely forget about it within a day or two.

However, I have also had issues with Apple gadgets that I think were reasonable to complain about:

1) My iPhone 4, iPad 2, and iPad 3 all had to be replaced multiple times for dead pixels and dust particles under the screen. I find both problems unacceptable. I also had many home buttons go bad on iPhone 4. Apple has fortunately fixed the screen problems in most iPad models now with laminated, higher quality displays. Many of my iPad replacements came with scratches and dings, and the iPhone 4 replacements I got seemed to get worse and worse cosmetically. I finally had to settle on one that had a good screen but a dinged up antenna band.

2) I've had two different iPad Pro models spontaneously start sucking down battery power in standby mode, to the point where I've had to either charge them every other day fully or turn wifi off to get the drain to stop. I still never figured out exactly what was going on, but ultimately chalked it up to software. One of the times Apple just swapped it out in store, even out of warranty. Another time, I had to fight with them because they tried to charge me for a whole new iPad, almost full price!

3) I've had AirPods, Apple Pencils, and other accessories go bad here and there--they never seem to have a problem just swapping those out in store.

Anyone who's scared to send their fancy MacBook in for repair though? I totally know the feeling. I've seen how the typical Genius handles gadgets behind the counter, and it is far rougher than I would treat an expensive and mission-critical device. They slide them around, flop them down on table tops, whack them into stuff, slide stuff around on top of them, etc. I'm sure it's just because they're so over it--they do this all day long and are far beyond caring about your personal device.

 

[nathan_reilly]

Not taking your issue lightly, because if there really was a problem I would call Apple out on it. My advice to you is to figure out a way to cope with the nick on the key. It'll be more efficient time and energy spent than worrying about it and trying to get Apple to fix it for you in something that really is hardly noticeable to the average person.

@beeftick I hardly see how your post is relevant to this thread. What greater point are you trying to make?

I think he's saying this was a refurb part that got used. Pretty salient and relevant if you ask me.

 

[spiderman0616]

I think he's saying this was a refurb part that got used. Pretty salient and relevant if you ask me.

Yeah, I would never put up with that, especially if I paid for the repair. Nobody is ever going to treat my stuff in a way that's up to my own standards, and I get that, but they could at least be gentle and use all new parts.

 

[antiprotest]

I suffer from a form of obsessive-compulsive disorder in which tiny imperfections on brand new products really bother me psychologically, even if such defects are "within tolerance" or don't impact functionality. People have suggested to me that I should work in quality control, but I feel as if under my supervision a lot of waste would be created due to having absolutely zero tolerance for anything varying by even 100 micrometers (approximately the width of a human hair). Ah well, guess I can expect that when there's a global supply chain and worker shortage.

Even then, it wouldn't be covered under the limited warranty unless "failure has occurred due to a defect in materials or workmanship, so I guess it can't be helped unless the thing were to crack or stop working.

Guess I can just fill it in with a UV curing black resin if I really wanted to.

Here's my experience from a different angle that their standards are not up to par. For quite a few years I would always pre-order new iPhones until I noticed that there would be hardware imperfections EVERY TIME, such as discolorations, loose or uneven buttons, etc. Since then I have stopped pre-ordering to avoid the first batch(es). I would wait until after New Year to buy from store. Never an issue since then.

 

[winxmac]

I'm a perfectionist even though I am imperfect, so I guess I also have OCD, since I notice what others consider as trivial things and for that I am in the same boat as some of you are regarding some physical imperfections or things that should have been noticed by quality control/quality analyst before releasing the product to the public...

And of course, once you notice/see something it will be very difficult to not notice/see it...

 

[Vazor]

Got my MBP back from repair and had a nice big scratch on it, which wasn't there before. Couldn't prove it so I did not get anything from them. They really don't care.

 

[Luposian]

Upon closer inspection, it's not a dent but rather a small bump. Like a tiny grain of sand got trapped in the mould. Which I can tolerate.

But... but... it's an imperfection! That bump should NOT be there! 😆 So, you'd rather stare at an "outie" belly button, than a regular "innie" belly button?

 

[triptolemus]

Apple Store employees and manager said that it was considered within normal machining tolerances.

Should have asked them to detail those tolerances. If they can offer that as a response then they should be able to reasonably articulate what it actually means.

 

[pshufd]

I bought a used 2015 MacBook Pro 15 at a great price. Lots of scratches, dents and dings (looks like it had been dropped on two different corners). Computer has worked just fine since I bought it.

 

[jav6454]

Thats not a matter of tolerances, and that isn’t a machined part. Apple Store Man is just saying words he heard once. But i see you’ve got to the bottom of it.

All parts are machined. In this case the part was molded. This means, any defect during the molding process can yield an imperfection. However, if it passed QC it means it is within the QC tolerances for the type of defect.

 

[Reggaenald]

… 🙄 this is what makes you upset? This? Oh well, nothing to see here. If you’d only talk about uneven brightness and color across the screen or keyboard, but no. Is a nick you can’t even see when normally using the machine.

 

[Reggaenald]

I suffer from a form of obsessive-compulsive disorder in which tiny imperfections on brand new products really bother me psychologically, even if such defects are "within tolerance" or don't impact functionality. People have suggested to me that I should work in quality control, but I feel as if under my supervision a lot of waste would be created due to having absolutely zero tolerance for anything varying by even 100 micrometers (approximately the width of a human hair). Ah well, guess I can expect that when there's a global supply chain and worker shortage.

Even then, it wouldn't be covered under the limited warranty unless "failure has occurred due to a defect in materials or workmanship, so I guess it can't be helped unless the thing were to crack or stop working.

Guess I can just fill it in with a UV curing black resin if I really wanted to.

Been the exact same, especially with Apple stuff, we too joke about Apple not selling anything were I in charge of QC.
You have to learn to live with it. Nothing more to it.

 

[Reggaenald]

I've had a mixed bag in this regard from Apple. I do not suffer from OCD, but I do have severe anxiety that can sort of present like OCD sometimes. Fortunately, after talking to a counselor and getting on the right anxiety medication, it is no longer an issue. So things like a not 100% perfect gap in one little spot or a little nick in a key isn't going to bother me these days. And even if it does, I will likely forget about it within a day or two.

However, I have also had issues with Apple gadgets that I think were reasonable to complain about:

1) My iPhone 4, iPad 2, and iPad 3 all had to be replaced multiple times for dead pixels and dust particles under the screen. I find both problems unacceptable. I also had many home buttons go bad on iPhone 4. Apple has fortunately fixed the screen problems in most iPad models now with laminated, higher quality displays. Many of my iPad replacements came with scratches and dings, and the iPhone 4 replacements I got seemed to get worse and worse cosmetically. I finally had to settle on one that had a good screen but a dinged up antenna band.

2) I've had two different iPad Pro models spontaneously start sucking down battery power in standby mode, to the point where I've had to either charge them every other day fully or turn wifi off to get the drain to stop. I still never figured out exactly what was going on, but ultimately chalked it up to software. One of the times Apple just swapped it out in store, even out of warranty. Another time, I had to fight with them because they tried to charge me for a whole new iPad, almost full price!

3) I've had AirPods, Apple Pencils, and other accessories go bad here and there--they never seem to have a problem just swapping those out in store.

Anyone who's scared to send their fancy MacBook in for repair though? I totally know the feeling. I've seen how the typical Genius handles gadgets behind the counter, and it is far rougher than I would treat an expensive and mission-critical device. They slide them around, flop them down on table tops, whack them into stuff, slide stuff around on top of them, etc. I'm sure it's just because they're so over it--they do this all day long and are far beyond caring about your personal device.

Once took my 2016 SE to an ACSP for the notorious upper border color defect and dust in the camera. They took it in for „diagnostics“.
Two hours later I came back, they said the diagnosis software didn’t detect anything (…) and they charged me 20€. Also, know that that was a 2 week old phone and pristine, they scratched that thing up good and poked the chassis somehow… they still operate today and are the only store anywhere near. I once too my X to them for color issues on the screen, came back 2 hours later, they gave it to me and it had a bump on the screen. Something was inside that wasn’t supposed to be there. Dude had the closing shift, took it, opened it hastily and shut it again. No water seal replacement or anything. Another story I send my MBP to for keyboard and screen issues replaced basically everything but apparently but it back together incorrectly so that every time I restated the machine it would get slower and slower until it wasn’t working at all anymore. Super strange.
I have yet to revive a device from Apple or an ACSP that doesn’t have hardware issues.

Edit: screw autocorrect