I don't understand what this means. Can you provide an example product or service?
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Apple's new way to lure Windows PC users
- Thread starter jpietrzak8
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
I don't understand what this means. Can you provide an example product or service?
I think people are misinterpreting Apple by applying use cases that obviously don't work.
Of course the tablet cannot replace all PCs. Apple isn't utterly deluded. For example, I can't picture Apple employees engineering the Apple car exclusively on iPad Pros. Nor do I see the OS X team developing 10.12 on their iPads. Certainly they are all using Macs, and HP/Dell rackmount servers, and whatever else they need.
But that's missing the point. I believe that the overwhelming majority of people use their personal computers for communication, entertainment, and commerce. Family, friends, email, Facebook, Twitter, Amazon, Spotify, Netflix, news, Kindle books, etc. None of these use cases requires a big beige box on a desk, and most of these use cases are improved upon by being portable. If you just want to check Facebook or order soap on Amazon there's no need to go to a different room, sit at a table, and boot up a PC. The home PC is what the tablet is already replacing right now.
As for the future, I expect tablets to be able to replace even more PC use cases. For example, while you might need a 12-core Skylake CPU, 64 GB of ram, and dual Nvidia Titans to render the next 4k movie, you don't need that to write documents, make presentations, keep track of inventory, etc. A powerful tablet in a dock connected to a full size monitor and keyboard could do those just fine. With MS Office running on tablets and bluetooth or detachable keyboards, we are already there.
The MS Surface is already doing this. It is replacing PCs in business, right now, today. Sure you can tell me that it's not really a tablet because it's thicker like a laptop, but unless you are completely oblivious with computing history, you must know that it's going to get thinner and lighter over time. PCs are getting much smaller very quickly and tablets are getting much more powerful, very quickly. They are essentially converging. Look again at the Surface. It's a PC powerful enough for business. Does it look more like a tablet or more like a desktop?
When I was a kid, computers were the size of buildings. The heat generated from one computer on campus was piped to other buildings to keep them warm. Useful computers are smaller and smaller every year. There is no reason to say that a tablet-sized computer will never be capable of meeting typical business needs. I think this is absolutely possible, in fact I think it is inevitable.
TL;DR
Tablets aren't replacing all PCs, but they are certainly replacing PCs.
Of course the tablet cannot replace all PCs. Apple isn't utterly deluded. For example, I can't picture Apple employees engineering the Apple car exclusively on iPad Pros. Nor do I see the OS X team developing 10.12 on their iPads. Certainly they are all using Macs, and HP/Dell rackmount servers, and whatever else they need.
But that's missing the point. I believe that the overwhelming majority of people use their personal computers for communication, entertainment, and commerce. Family, friends, email, Facebook, Twitter, Amazon, Spotify, Netflix, news, Kindle books, etc. None of these use cases requires a big beige box on a desk, and most of these use cases are improved upon by being portable. If you just want to check Facebook or order soap on Amazon there's no need to go to a different room, sit at a table, and boot up a PC. The home PC is what the tablet is already replacing right now.
As for the future, I expect tablets to be able to replace even more PC use cases. For example, while you might need a 12-core Skylake CPU, 64 GB of ram, and dual Nvidia Titans to render the next 4k movie, you don't need that to write documents, make presentations, keep track of inventory, etc. A powerful tablet in a dock connected to a full size monitor and keyboard could do those just fine. With MS Office running on tablets and bluetooth or detachable keyboards, we are already there.
The MS Surface is already doing this. It is replacing PCs in business, right now, today. Sure you can tell me that it's not really a tablet because it's thicker like a laptop, but unless you are completely oblivious with computing history, you must know that it's going to get thinner and lighter over time. PCs are getting much smaller very quickly and tablets are getting much more powerful, very quickly. They are essentially converging. Look again at the Surface. It's a PC powerful enough for business. Does it look more like a tablet or more like a desktop?
When I was a kid, computers were the size of buildings. The heat generated from one computer on campus was piped to other buildings to keep them warm. Useful computers are smaller and smaller every year. There is no reason to say that a tablet-sized computer will never be capable of meeting typical business needs. I think this is absolutely possible, in fact I think it is inevitable.
TL;DR
Tablets aren't replacing all PCs, but they are certainly replacing PCs.
Last edited:
This highlights the limitation of a tablet. You need to bolt on a keyboard to do anything productive then it's a poor man's laptop. I'd rather use a laptop for actual work and a tablet for facebook. It boils down to that division of consumable internet = tablet, productive user = laptop. To me, it's a fallacy to expend energy writing productive apps for tablets as they're still a load of crap when using them for an extended period. Hell, you can't even use a mouse with a tablet as there's no cursor.
The fact that you have to connect those to a tablet for some use cases isn't proof that tablets aren't replacing PCs. People also use laptop docks to connect them to larger monitors and full size keyboards.
Heck, you also connect desktops to a keyboard and mouse to get work done.
There are absolutely tablets with mouse cursors. My Dell Venue Pro 8 for example, which is a small tablet that I use for radio programming out in the field, instead of a full laptop.
Cause and effect. People not buying regular computers doesn't prove that they're buying tablets instead. All it says is that people are not buying as many computers as before. To prove you point, you need to provide evidence to support your point, not say to me I've not disproven your point!
I've no idea about some random non-Apple tablet that I don't care about. The point is an ipad doesn't have a mouse cursor so you need to touch the screen to copy/paste which just sucks.
I'm not even sure we disagree about my point, which I'll repeat here:
Tablets aren't replacing all PCs, but they are certainly replacing PCs.
Many people including you describe the difficulty of using a tablet in certain use cases, but I don't disagree with that. That is addressed in the first clause of my point.
You say "overwhelming" use cases then claim "already replacing right now". I'm a simple person so when you start your argument with a sweeping term like "overwhelming" then you most certainly ain't claiming only a few tablets are replacing PCs, you're really claiming most. But you've tried to offer an argument to the effect in your final statement that not "all PCs" are being replaced by tablets. Come now, we know what you're implying so don't try to claim you're correct by ambiguity.
The bottom line is you've no evidence to support that tablets are replacing PCs or you'd be showing it to us. And I don't know what "don't disagree with" means. That's a double negative so say you agree and stop this silliness.
Some people can get by with a phone and some people can get by with a tablet and some people just need a computer for what they need to accomplish.
So:
Tablets aren't replacing all PCs, but they are certainly replacing PCs.
So:
Tablets aren't replacing all PCs, but they are certainly replacing PCs.
You are taking the "Overwhelming" quote out of context. I will repeat it here, with emphasis. Also note that the entire paragraph with that quote is about home use, not productivity.
I believe that the overwhelming majority of people use their personal computers for communication, entertainment, and commerce.
Sigh. Congratulations, you trolled me into losing 10 minutes of my life. But, here are the results of a simple google search:
- Cisco - has its own internal app store with almost 60 programs for internal business use
- SAP - 250,000 deployed tablets for its global workforce
- LG&E and KU Energy LLC - iPads pinpoint power line problems
- Many, many retailers replacing PCs at point of sale with iPads
- IBM - developing Enterprise applications for iPad for 65 professions over 14 industries
- Many real life examples, including transportation, infrastructure, health care, retail, real estate, first responders
- My own use case of replacing a laptop with a tablet for field radio programming
- Two friends of mine, Microsoft employees, stating they that and many of their coworkers have replaced their PCs with Surface tablets
In any case, I'm done here. If you don't agree, that's fine, I don't care. We are both wasting our time here. Have the last word if you like.
Last edited:
That's cheating because it runs a full OS. LOL Just saying.
I'm not trolling.....I'm just contributing to the trolling.....I'm curious about the following:
1) If there are 600 million PC's in use today that are over 5 years old, how many PC's are in use today that are less than 5 years old?
2) What is the difference in computing power between a typical 5 year old computer and today's iPad Pro?
3) What type of tasks does someone using a 5 year old computer typically perform? Can those tasks be performed on an iPad Pro? Would the experience be better, the same or worse?
I think he means personal, wireless USB drives or host-you-own services like OwnCloud
That's cheating because it runs a full OS. LOL Just saying.
That's totally a fair point.
Apple is handicapped compared to other tablets when it comes to replacing PCs, in part because it's not a full OS and in part because they insist on keeping mouse support turned off, even though it's already there in the code (added back in iOS 6 or 7 I think).
That's your preference and that's fine, of course. I've used portable touch devices as writing accessories since the days of palm pilots and folding IR keyboards. My iPad (and my Nexus 7 before that) is a device where I'm comfortable using it for 90% of what I do on desktop operating systems.
A dockable tablet that gives me composite windows when docked is my holy grail. Microsoft is already there, Ubuntu and Android are nipping on its heals. Android, Ubuntu and Windows all have mouse support. Its only Apple that are dragging its heels because they want to sell more devices and so it's not fully onboard with its own professed vision of personal computing.
What's wrong with having a shared or on-demand computer for heavy lifting when needed but using personal, adaptive devices to replace the need for a secondary traditional desktop OS?
I think most of those PC owners would go to a Surface before an iPad Pro. At least they would have a file system and ports which Apple doesn't seem to think important.
No it's not cheating, the debate is for tablets, not the limitations (real or otherwise) imposed upon them by software. Android 7 is getting multi-window support - in most people's estimation that would make it a full OS.
Hmm. I've gotta say, I'm not persuaded by this. "Family, friends, email, Facebook, Twitter, Amazon, Spotify, Netflix, news, Kindle" -- yeah, these are things that don't need a beige box, and have a decent argument for being better on a portable device. And really, that's exactly why today's smartphones are so incredibly useful. They are perfect for performing this task.
But really, you don't need a tablet form-factor, nor the kind of processing power currently squeezed into the iPad Pro, to do any of those tasks. The iPad Pro, so far as I can tell, does really approach PC-level power. But I have trouble thinking of a situation where the iPad could perform a task better than a smartphone or a PC: if I need to connect to other folks, or perform some quick calculation on the go, I don't see why I really need either the increased screen size or CPU power. If I do have a task that involves significant interaction with the computing device, or a large amount of number crunching, or even if I just want to sit down and watch a movie, I am going to do just that -- sit down and interact with the machine. At which point, the portability issue changes dramatically: if I'm going to be spending time typing, I'll need to set up a tablet on a stable, flat, firm surface, because I'm either going to be using one of those flimsy cover + keyboard things, or stand up the thing and use an external keyboard. If I've got a laptop, I just open it and set it on practically anything (such as my lap, for instance), as the keyboard and screen form a single stable unit, and will not collapse if used on a soft surface.
And honestly, I've also gotta say that no, I don't want to use a portable device for any of these tasks, if I can get away with using a desktop computer. Sitting at an actual desk, and using an actual keyboard / mouse / whatever for input, is always going to be more comfortable for interacting with a computer, than finger-painting on a tablet touchscreen or juggling a separate tablet and keyboard. A tablet is only better when you absolutely positively must do your computing in a portable manner. While I understand that a lot of folks do need to stay on the move all day, I think that any typical office or home situation should in fact be better served with a conventional desktop than a portable PC...
Given how many iOS devices out there vs the number of Macs I'd say there are more iOS/Windows users than there are iOS/Mac users.
iOS has a file system, HFS+ just the same as OS X - what it doesn't have is a user accessible, centralised file manager that all apps have the right to access.
As for ports - I'm in complete agreement.
[doublepost=1458777134][/doublepost]
Good post and well argued.
I don't want to see desktop system disappear either. For a long time I was a big laptop user and I thought that would give me the best of both worlds but in recent years I've been re-thinking that. I got sick of paying premium prices for laptops with the limited upgradability and degradable batteries. My desktop is a Mac mini with two large monitors, big keyboard with a numpad and a mouse. For some tasks, many tasks, nothing is more immersive and enjoyable than this experience.
But when I go portable, I've come to prefer tablets. For reading, surfing, distraction free writing, email, a quick SSH session into one of my droplets on DigitalOcean and casual gaming I enjoy more with a touch-based device.
Now if I could also dock that tablet, then I could see that some of those tasks I currently reserve for big metal, could also be transferred to the tablet.
Yes, a laptop can do both, but with a desktop/tablet combination, I've jumped off the upgrade bandwagon. My desktop dates to 2011 and I have no compelling reason to replace it. I just gave my mother-in-law a ThinkCentre desktop dating to 2008 and it's still going strong. Laptops never seem to last as long; batteries wear out, they are harder to upgrade and there a many components that can't be touched. Similarly with a tablet, with its fairly defined set of functions, I have few reasons to upgrade and when I have to - when Apple stops supporting it and the battery finally dies - I'm looking at $500 to replace it instead of $2000.
Not to direct the disscusion on this thread at the OP but to show how Shiller demeaning of PC users with 5 year old "sad" computers should buy an iPad Pro.
This is laughable to me that an iPad Pro would be the first choice to replace their "sad" computers that are easily capable of running Windows what ever and even run Windows 10 without a problem.
If they (Apple) thinks PC users are going to pay that much for an iPad Pro to replace those sad machines when they can buy a new PC for a couple hundred dollars then Apple is doomed.
Excellent point.
I think it's more of a complimentary argument than a counterpoint though. If people can't even conceive how a tablet could replace a PC because of input difficulties without a keyboard and mouse, then a smartphone doing the same is additional evidence against PCs and for mobiles as a whole.
But you're right, for the use cases I mentioned there, smartphones are doing that even better than tablets.
That really pi$$ed me off too; arrogance and hubris and completely contrary to their environmental messaging.
5 year old desktops...that's Sandy Bridge, which is still more than capable for most users myself included with my 2011 Mac mini. In the PC/Linux world a Sandy bridge box coupled with a modern, upgraded GPU, RAM and SSD will smoke anything Apple has on offer today. Those upgrades will cost a less than the $1000 AUD iPad apple is peddling.
As for the 9.7 inch iPad Pro, sure its a nice device but it's hardly a panacea for everything Apple sees wrong in the PC world. The only thing sad to me is Apple wanting to sell less for more and wrapping it up as though they are doing the world a favour.