Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

ss957916

macrumors 6502a
Jun 17, 2009
861
0
The child labour is awful and has rightly been rectified. I take the stance that if you knew everything about the products you buy, you wouldn't buy them.

Perhaps foolishly, when I hand over £1,600 for a Mac (instead of £300 for a PC) I'm assuming Apple haven't cut corners and tried to get the cheapest possible deal for manufacture. In fact, when I bought my first PowerBook five years ago, I assumed by the price that it wasn't made in the 3rd world. I recently learned they had billions of dollars in cash tucked away, so I now realise it's not necessarily the case, but I still feel that, by paying a premium, I'm doing the 'right' thing. Same reason I shop at Waitrose and not Lidl.

Regarding your comment about Safari/IE - thanks for actually answering and explaining rather than calling me a troll and remarking that this has been 'discussed before - try searching.' I wish all MR users were more like yourself.
 

All Taken

macrumors 6502a
Dec 28, 2009
780
1
UK
Perhaps foolishly, when I hand over £1,600 for a Mac (instead of £300 for a PC) I'm assuming Apple haven't cut corners and tried to get the cheapest possible deal for manufacture. In fact, when I bought my first PowerBook five years ago, I assumed by the price that it wasn't made in the 3rd world. I recently learned they had billions of dollars in cash tucked away, so I now realise it's not necessarily the case, but I still feel that, by paying a premium, I'm doing the 'right' thing. Same reason I shop at Waitrose and not Lidl.

Regarding your comment about Safari/IE - thanks for actually answering and explaining rather than calling me a troll and remarking that this has been 'discussed before - try searching.' I wish all MR users were more like yourself.

I see your Waitrose VS Lidl notion and have to say it made me smile for all the right reasons. For our American cousins Waitrose is a fair trade supermarket where as lidl is a cheap as you like supermarket that does not make provisions for fair trade etc.

The only issue I have is that Waitrose has also been an evil business duping consumers into believing they are purchasing "organic" and "fair trade" products that are not always entirely truthful statements. Admittidly it is 3rd party manufacturers that made the products that did not comply but is that not the same issue with the child labour? Different extremes? perhaps... however I feel they are similar enough problems that were not a direct fault of Apple/Waitrose (in the same sentence - who'd have known? :)) but should have never occurred.

I agree that many on MacRumors are just fanboys and have nothing better to do than to troll the boards - perhaps a couple of years will see those people change ;)
 

vant

macrumors 65816
Jul 1, 2009
1,231
1

Apple wants iPhone apps to be superior to Web experiences because they are extremely sticky and drive people specifically to buy the iPhone over competing smartphone platforms. Apps that are too simple or largely indistinguishable from the Web, other apps or particularly other apps on other platforms send the message to end users that the iPhone app ecosystem might not be particularly special."

The Appstore carries many items that are cross platform. I don't see your point if they pick and choose which ones.

I don't understand why everyone wants to tear down OSes like Windows, OSX, iPod, etc. into parts.

What is stopping the EU from forcing Windows to include competitor clocks? iTunes? Calculators? Wallpaper? Paint programs? Backup software? Cleanup software? Defragmenting software? Sound recording? Mail clients? Icons?

The setup for Windows is already long enough. Pretty soon the poor average Joe will have to decide each and every aspect of his OS just to get to a working desktop.

We need to stop this 'you must make your product internally competitive' crap, before it spreads to things like cars and refridgerators.
 

shadygrove

macrumors regular
Mar 8, 2010
201
0
At least when I buy an Apple product it works exactly as advertised...no gimmicks attached. That's why I quit buying MS products 5 years ago.

And all the other points in the original post is rubbish.
 

All Taken

macrumors 6502a
Dec 28, 2009
780
1
UK
What is stopping the EU from forcing Windows to include competitor clocks? iTunes? Calculators? Wallpaper? Paint programs? Backup software? Cleanup software? Defragmenting software? Sound recording? Mail clients? Icons?

*Popularity and market growth

(*) Until such a time arises that the developers of those programs complain enough about Microsoft tactics and the EU investigates.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Windows Apps you mentioned do not infringe upon 3rd party market share in a significant way so as to cause an EU investigation.
 

zipa

macrumors 65816
Feb 19, 2010
1,442
1
The Appstore carries many items that are cross platform. I don't see your point if they pick and choose which ones.

My point is that if they do that, people will eventually stop developing applications for the iPhone. Apple has, what, 10 % market share in smartphones? Now, if they start to limit developers from developing for other platforms, what do you think will happen among the professional developers? Will they continue with something that'll limit their potential customer base to 10 % of the market, or ditch the iPhone development and immediately gain nine times more potential customers?
 

All Taken

macrumors 6502a
Dec 28, 2009
780
1
UK
At least when I buy an Apple product it works exactly as advertised...no gimmicks attached. That's why I quit buying MS products 5 years ago.

And all the other points in the original post is rubbish.

You need to take a cold shower - I love Apple as much as the next person on this board but come off it "no gimmicks attached" - Apple have there faults, please explain why "all the other points in the original post is rubbish."

You hardly make a worthy post with those statements, give us some points to support your statement.
 

rdstoll

macrumors 6502
Jul 15, 2008
273
2
I do agree with the OP that Apple gets a pass for doing things that MSFT has been vilified for in the past. It's interesting that people can't admit that.
 

All Taken

macrumors 6502a
Dec 28, 2009
780
1
UK
My point is that if they do that, people will eventually stop developing applications for the iPhone. Apple has, what, 10 % market share in smartphones? Now, if they start to limit developers from developing for other platforms, what do you think will happen among the professional developers? Will they continue with something that'll limit their potential customer base to 10 % of the market, or ditch the iPhone development and immediately gain nine times more potential customers?

Apple has obviously got analysts looking at market data for the life of the app store and compares the data for other platforms, which other smartphone manufacturer has an app store that is 10% the success of the Apple app store?

Your argument that developers can gain 9 times the potential customers is flawed due to the fact that the app store offers a wider profit yield than any other platform - Apple know this, developers know this.
 

All Taken

macrumors 6502a
Dec 28, 2009
780
1
UK
I do agree with the OP that Apple gets a pass for doing things that MSFT has been vilified for in the past. It's interesting that people can't admit that.

Give us an example of an action Apple has made that Microsoft or indeed any other company has been investigated for.

I believe you are confusing Software sales to 3RD PARTY MANUFACTURERS and SOFTWARE SALES FOR MAC ONLY.
 

zipa

macrumors 65816
Feb 19, 2010
1,442
1
Apple has obviously got analysts looking at market data for the life of the app store and compares the data for other platforms, which other smartphone manufacturer has an app store that is 10% the success of the Apple app store?

Your argument that developers can gain 9 times the potential customers is flawed due to the fact that the app store offers a wider profit yield than any other platform - Apple know this, developers know this.

Who cares about some appstore, when you can sell the application directly to the consumers and keep 100 % of the profits for yourself if developing to any other platform than the iPhone? I'd say that 100 % is a better yield than 70 %, no?
 

All Taken

macrumors 6502a
Dec 28, 2009
780
1
UK
Who cares about some appstore, when you can sell the application directly to the consumers and keep 100 % of the profits for yourself if developing to any other platform than the iPhone? I'd say that 100 % is a better yield than 70 %, no?

No, I see your logic but the audience is greatly reduced (I can't exaggerate greatly enough) if you don't use the app store then your market is as good as pre app store (Small).

The App Store success is owed to a stage (iTunes) and platform iPod Touch and iPhone. Consumers don't go out of their way to look for apps, they see the store - they purchase, sync - job done.
 

Law213

macrumors newbie
Feb 1, 2010
24
0
If it hasn't hit you yet, APPLE IS THE ONLY COMPANY WHO AUDITS THEIR FACTORIES. If Apple proceeded like Dell/Sony/HP/Etc. they wouldn't even know what kind of labor issues they were having.

This is completely untrue.

Look, let's start where you did. TUAW is not a journalistic site. They are the Unofficial Apple Weblog. Their credibility is suspect (not that it is always wrong, but simply that it has a reason to be bias). But, as you can see by clicking on the link provided by vant, that TUAW links that information to somewhere else. So, let's proceed to that site, it is an Apple site outlining their Supplier Code of Conduct. Not too dissimilar from:

http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/globalcitizenship/

http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/csr/quality/code/qfhh7c00000i5kbl-att/supplier_code.pdf

http://www.dell.com/content/topics/.../supp_citizen/code_of_conduct?c=us&l=en&cs=19


So, back to the Apple site we just linked to. This isn't the source for the information in the TUAW article, that is come to find out, here: http://images.apple.com/supplierresponsibility/pdf/SR_2010_Progress_Report.pdf

Note: that is an Apple produced study, posted on an Apple site.

Now, in that report, the only information I found leading to a conclusion that Apple somehow is the most rigorous in its compliance enforcement is this language: "During most of our audits, suppliers stated that Apple was the only company that had ever audited their facility for supplier responsibility" found on page 13 of the report.

This does not, in any way, support the idea that Delll/HP/Sony or any other company does not do compliance testing. There is no evidence given that tends to show that any of the other mfg. use those suppliers. The information comes from an internally constructed report outlining Apple's compliance auditing. The fact that Apple includes a sentence in its report about what was said by "suppliers" (and who is that? the CEO of the supply company? the compliance officer? one of the 15 year olds working 60 hour weeks? [sorry, had to])means absolutely nothing and should not be enough to claim that Dell, HP, Sony and whomever else don't care.

I hate to break this to you, but tech sites are not good enough sources to base opinions on. At least opinions on corporate ethics and supplier responsibility. I don't know if Apple is better or worse with ethics than the next company. The App store shenanigans are probably most suspect, but I doubt they represent any real issue for the DOJ for now.
 

zipa

macrumors 65816
Feb 19, 2010
1,442
1
No, I see your logic but the audience is greatly reduced (I can't exaggerate greatly enough) if you don't use the app store then your market is as good as pre app store (Small).

The App Store success is owed to a stage (iTunes) and platform iPod Touch and iPhone. Consumers don't go out of their way to look for apps, they see the store - they purchase, sync - job done.

Sure, this applies well to the "useless" apps that nobody would buy unless they saw it jumping at them in the appstore. I doesn't apply (or at least on a much smaller scale) to the actually useful applications. For instance, I don't think that a lot of people had any problems going to google to download google maps and gmail back in the days when they weren't "integrated" in any of the phones. Just as people have no issues with downloading firefox, opera, thunderbird and whatnot to their computers.

Sure, the appstores are great marketing channels, but if the developers feel that they become too restrictive, they are going to ditch them. Which in turn will make the appstores less and less attractive to new developers, and hey presto, you have put yourself in a rather vicious circle.

I'm not saying that this is happening, but it is a very potential outcome if Apple (or any other appstore) tries to squeeze the developers too hard.
 

CP123

macrumors regular
Dec 22, 2008
182
0
This topic is becoming soooooo redundant. The OP is entitled to his/her opinion. That's his/her right. However, when we start talking of anti-competitive practices, and monopolies, we have to make sure we understand what a monopoly is. I must have stated this on 3 recent threads already.
Apple is not a monopoly. If you don't know what a monopoly is then research it. Just because you keep saying it, or hinting at it, doesn't make it true. Regardless to how many times you say it.
 

cmaier

Suspended
Jul 25, 2007
25,405
33,474
California
What's not true? I linked to the news articles to back up my claims.

The links are accurate. Your summaries of the links are wrong.

Checking into who is being employed at Apple's iPhone production factories seems like something Apple should have done ever since the iPhone began being manufactured three years ago. If Apple took no oversight over how the iPhone was being manufactured until recently, that's their fault. It's commendable that they finally fixed it. But that doesn't change the fact it should have been fixed in 2007.

Apple did perform oversight every year, and they finally found three incidents. What's your point?

Anyways, my point was that it's stupid to boycott Sony for something one of their lawyers said, while Apple's contractors have done far worse things.

Their lawyers are fiduciary agents representing Sony. They are not independent contractors. If your lawyer said something while representing you, those words are held against you. If your gardener said the same thing, those words are not held against you. That just makes sense.

Seriously, don't act like Apple bears absolutely no responsibility for the subcontractors that they hired to test and manufacture their products.

Of course they do. There is no evidence that these subcontractors have done this in the past, and there is no evidence that Apple should have known about the issue sooner. If someone slips on a spill in a grocery store, the issue becomes: when did the grocer know about the spill? when SHOULD the grocer have known about the spill? If the spill happened a few minutes ago, it's not fair to blame the grocer unless there is a history of spills happening at that spot for some reason.



And don't act like Apple bears no responsibility for the high level of secrecy employed around their products.

Strawman. The natural consequence of secrecy is not suicides. The fact that you went to work this morning might have set off a chain reaction of events that resulted in someone's death. We don't hold it against you, because you are not the proximate cause of the death. Causation does not imply blame.

Both stances are dishonest...

Much like your "Apple has a monopoly on iPod Touch" theory?


This was THE department that was testing and modifying the iPhone prototypes. Don't act like Apple had no oversight of what was being done there.

Where's your evidence that they did? Moreover, if I kill a coworker, is my employer to blame if they knew nothing about it?


Apple is not stupid. There is absolutely no way that location was tweaking with the iPhone prototype without atleast some Apple employees overseeing exactly what they are doing.

Again, where's your evidence? And what does the presence of an engineer or two have to do with it?

Are you seriously telling me that you believe Apple subcontracted out a company to test the iPhone prototype, and wasn't keeping a close eye on what they were doing over there?

What does keeping an "eye" on things have to do with it? And, yes, I don't think they were keeping an eye on things beyond demanding secrecy. And the natural consequence of secrecy is NOT violence. Lots of companies keep trade secrets and enforce NDA's, and nothing bad happens.


My concern is the anti-competitive practices that Apple is still engaging in. I see no good reason why Google Voice or the new Google Navigation App should be blocked from the iPhone. And I certainly see no good reason to block Opera or other competitors.

Finally something I agree with. Not sure what it has to do with your imaginary conspiracy theories, though.


See above.
 

SteveSparks

macrumors 6502a
Jan 22, 2008
905
31
St. Louis, MO.
Apple has never installed a "rootkit" on my system.

Thanks Sony.

Apple has never had an OS that as soon as it is connected to the internet, is likely to get a virus or malware instaleld in less than 3 minutes.

Thanks Microsoft.

As far as the rest of the issues, Sony and Microsoft have done the same or worse.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.