That’s exactly the problem: an iPad is optimized for touch interactions, the Mac is not, and should not be. As soon as you optimize the Mac for touch interactions, it’s basically the same as an iPad. And in order for a touchscreen on a Mac to make sense, you’d have to optimize macOS for touch interactions. Might as well keep macOS cursor optimized and let it do what it does well, and let the iPad do what it does well…
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Apple's Work on Touchscreen Macs: What We Know So Far
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Keep in mind that just because Apple is working on it doesn’t mean it will ever be released. Does anyone remember the AirPower mat?
Only if you assume that 100% of interactions are using touch and that is not necessary.
No, even assuming that not all interactions are using touch, all interactions have to be optimized so they could be touch interactions if the user chooses to use it that way. A half-way touch optimized UI is worse than a fully non-touch optimized system or a fully touch optimized system, because the user will constantly run into friction with the UI unless they have a very specific interaction. You’re claimed benefit of having touch interaction is greater interaction flexibility, but such a half-baked system wouldn’t really add flexibility, you’d have to have a very specific way of interacting with the system that involves wanting to poke some of the buttons on your screen, but not others, which just doesn’t make any sense. Better to keep the Mac fully optimized for cursor input, and allow the iPad to be fully optimized for touch, rather than trying to make some half-baked, half touch optimized macOS which will be confusing, unintuitive, and make no logical sense.
P.S. Let’s look at an example. With iPadOS, cursor optimization is still practical, because anything that can be tapped can also be clicked. It’s not as efficient on screen real estate, and more buttons have to be hidden in drop-downs, etc. but anything that can be tapped can also fundamentally be clicked. Could you imagine if some buttons in iPadOS could be clicked with the cursor, but others couldn’t? That would be a horrible experience. But that’s the inverse of what you’d get with a partly touch optimized macOS. Many things that can be clicked can’t be tapped very precisely at all with an imprecise finger. So the only way to make touch interaction practical across the system to do anything beyond what the trackpad already does very well would be to enlarge all of the buttons, or at least the one’s somebody arbitrarily deems important to optimize for touch interactions.
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Besides, the interaction flow you describe here would absolutely require making massive changes to the UI. In order for your described interaction of “tapping buttons” to work well, you’d have to enlarge all of the buttons, at least any you wanted to tap, because the buttons are currently far too small for tapping accurately. Windows did that, and that’s why it wastes so much screen real-estate compared to macOS. And iPadOS does this as well, but again, that’s iPadOS, and you’d be making macOS essentially into iPadOS in order to interact with macOS the way you do with iPadOS. It’s a bad solution, which makes no sense. Better to let macOS be a desktop OS optimized for cursor input, and let iPadOS be touch optimized. No reason to try to force some form of half-baked interaction into a system that already handles scrolling and button pressing with a trackpad beautifully…
And it would continue to handle scrolling and button pressing with a trackpad if that’s what you want. I just don’t agree that having touch as an option requires everything to be redesigned. I’ve used Windows systems with touchscreens and not everything is redesigned for touch. It’s fine, you end up using touch where it makes sense and a trackpage, mouse, or keyboard where they make sense. Similarly on an iPad, browsing the web, all pages are not redesigned for touch and some items are small. Then it helps if you have a trackpad or pencil for your iPad as alternate interaction modes. It is about being flexible.
I know that you don’t agree and that’s fine. I’ll stop explaining my position, now, as I’m sure the rest of the people here are tired of the back and forth conversation. Have a good new year.
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Expect more than just a little hand slap from me. Touchscreen laptops are a deep level of stupid.
I can see it now. The titlebars get even fatter, the spacing even wider, the actual features even more sparse, customization nonexistent.
And Apple is shaping up to be just the kind of company that would embrace this idocracy.
Keep those soy mouths at max gape.
Windows was absolutely redesigned for touch interactions. Just look at the huge difference between Windows 8, 10, and 11 vs what Windows used to be in XP, Vista, 7, etc. Arguing Windows wasn’t redesigned for touch is a non-starter, that’s simply not even close to being true.
As to web browsing on the iPad, most websites have a mobile version which is properly scaled for touch interactions, websites that aren’t touch optimized are pretty rare. And we’re not talking about a random website option here or there that wouldn’t be touch compatible on non-touch optimized macOS, we’re talking about the entire system.
I hope you have a happy new year as well.
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As an artist I want one. iPad apps are still pretty limited and while my Macbook+iPad setup is decent to use mac apps with sidecar, just using a pencil on my macbook would be the most ideal for portability.
The biggest question is the fear of cannibalizing their own ipad sales. Would I still buy an ipad if I had this? Probably, the smaller ipads are still the most ideal for browsing content when you want more screen than your phone but don't want to bring out your whole laptop.
Alternatively, they can let us run macOS on an ipad (or install apps?) and everyone that wants a laptop will still get a macbook, and artists will be happier with their ipads.
The biggest question is the fear of cannibalizing their own ipad sales. Would I still buy an ipad if I had this? Probably, the smaller ipads are still the most ideal for browsing content when you want more screen than your phone but don't want to bring out your whole laptop.
Alternatively, they can let us run macOS on an ipad (or install apps?) and everyone that wants a laptop will still get a macbook, and artists will be happier with their ipads.
It would be great to have Macbooks with touch screen for two concerns:
1. Better for pockets : Savings for the consumers - Having two devices, maintenance-wise and investment-wise heavy (could cost over AUD10,000!
2. Better for environment : Less devices consuming electricity, filling land, utilising electricity and parts is not the best for environment.
Moreover, having to carry the tablet and Macbook is an utterly wasteful and useless. I have one battery bank and charging both on a long trip is harder. Just the macbook would be great and having touch-screen there makes all the sense. Also the MacOS, unlike iOS, is programmer friendlier.
I would vote for a single device that has touch screen and keyboard any day any time, with all my heart!
1. Better for pockets : Savings for the consumers - Having two devices, maintenance-wise and investment-wise heavy (could cost over AUD10,000!
2. Better for environment : Less devices consuming electricity, filling land, utilising electricity and parts is not the best for environment.
Moreover, having to carry the tablet and Macbook is an utterly wasteful and useless. I have one battery bank and charging both on a long trip is harder. Just the macbook would be great and having touch-screen there makes all the sense. Also the MacOS, unlike iOS, is programmer friendlier.
I would vote for a single device that has touch screen and keyboard any day any time, with all my heart!
I think it would be better to just continue to improve iPadOS on the iPad. Macs run macOS, and macOS is desktop optimized. It shouldn’t have large touch optimized buttons. With the iPad on the other hand, iPadOS is fully designed and optimized for those interactions. As Apple continues to improve iPadOS and the softwares converge, they can have the best of both worlds by preserving both. For those who want a touchscreen experience, they have the iPad, for those who prefer a desktop system with a trackpad and keyboard, they have the Mac.
From consumer point, this "looks" great, but it is more economical and capable to introduce touch to the MacOS. Microsoft in that way took the more wiser path, Apple still seem to struggle.
In a meeting the touch screen I find massively useful to explain, discuss matters much effectively. It feels and acts much natural, and so much more effective than using the mouse/touch-pad.
When I am using the Macbook, people try to touch the screen to explain/discuss anyway. So the part of the HCI already speaks for itself.
I've already created my case and sent to the Apple teams about this matter. Many of the people I know have agreed to the same - especially because of the natural feeling and the environment aspect as I mentioned above in my comment.
It may feel tricky to agree to such notion. But if you give up all the ego, and bias, you will really realise that it is the right thing to do - get the touch (the marvelous implementation of touch screen and the Apple Pencil capability!) onto the MacBook!! It is more simple, effective, economic AND environmentally friendlier !!
PS: I noted your repository https://github.com/KalCadle/iPadOS-Home-Screen-Folders-Files-Icons
That's great work by the way. You might be feeling threatened by my comment. But I didn't mean to aim at your project (actually I'm a fan of the idea already, if you see I've thumbed up that). My standing I'd like to keep it unbiased, and from the perspective of the common people's economy and the environment-frienliness.
If we are to go iOS path, then it needs to made more developer friendly. At the moment too restrictive! Given the MacOS freedom the developers have (quite close to the super-large Linux ecosystem!) it is more preferable by the many.
Let the iPad be an iPad and let the Mac be a Mac. Simple.
You can’t just reverse years of development to try and force two experiences into one device - you end up with something half as good.
You can’t just reverse years of development to try and force two experiences into one device - you end up with something half as good.
Thanks, I appreciate that. 👍🏻. I totally agree about making iPadOS more developer friendly, my ideal solution would be to improve iPadOS so that it maintains it’s unique touch-first optimization, but gains most or all of the functionality of macOS. I think Apple seems to be working in that direction with the addition of their own pro apps and things like Stage Manager. 👍🏻. I think if they approached it that way, then consumers would still have a fully desktop optimized system with macOS, and a hybrid touch and cursor optimized system with iPadOS. Perhaps they could make touchscreen laptops that run a form of iPadOS or a hybrid of iPadOS and macOS. But I think many fans of macOS are opposed to touch-optimizing macOS, so I wouldn’t want touch optimization to be forced on them. Personally, I have little direct skin in the game because I use my iPad as my primary computer. I have a desktop Mac, so I’d like macOS to stay well optimized for desktop interaction either way. 👍🏻
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