Are Immediate Updates That Important?

[F123D]

When I used an iPhone, it needed to be jailbroken to be functional. So when apple releases an update, I can't update anyway.

I'd have to wait until apples next big update (iOS4, 5, 6) which is once a year, and then wait months for the untethered jailbreak to be released.

So coming to android where the complaint is you'll have to wait a couple months before you can update, it doesn't bother me at all.

 

[onthecouchagain]

There is a huge problem with this statement. Believing that just because you can't think of something new means there isn't anything new is a logical fallacy.

Did you not read the rest of my post?

The whole point is that features weren't thought of right away, so a big group of people get together to think of new and awesome ideas that haven't been done before and constantly pushing how far technology can go.

Of course updates are important. I don't think it is reasonable for anybody to say they aren't. Can you see the future? Can anybody say with absolute certainty that Google will never have any major OS features? No, nobody can say that because we don't know.

Agreeable. But a lot of points still remain. How important is it to have these new features, whatever they may be, and how important is it to have them immediately? Isn't it safe to say the current state of Android is good enough to sustain the few months it may take to get said update?

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Surprised that you would make a bizarre statement like this. Updates are absolutely important. Without them, progression stops. Bugs and glitches are usually fixed in most updates so many would want them right away.

Do you really want to spend all that money on a phone and not get any bug fixes, feature enhancements, and other goodies during your 2 year contract? It's annoying as hell being forced to have to buy a new phone just to get the update that finally resolves the issue you had on your old "still working fine" phone.

Software fragmentation is probably one of the biggest issues with Android. If carriers and manufacturers got a clue and embraced pushing out updates for all their phones in a timely fashion, they would gain a lot of customers on that premise alone. They don't get it.

There's a lot of confusion with my post, and I'm impart to blame cause I wrote it up really quickly.

I'm not saying bugs shouldn't be fixed. Nor am I saying updates should never happen. Nor am I saying progression should stop.

The question is, are updates required immediately? Is the OS not at a point where waiting a few months for the update is acceptable?

Again, I take some blame for the confusion.

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I'll hold you to that when Key Lime Pie comes out with a plethora of amazing new features

Touche.

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Considering that Google can just update the core Android apps whenever they want to add new features the OS update is not as important anymore.

Very true. Very relevant to my point.

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It is when they add things like Google Now and Quick Settings.

Also true. But the question is, are immediate updates that important? You can eventually get them.

And if those updates are truly that important, it begs the question why not stick with the Nexus line, and/or flash ROMs...

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Overall, all very good points from both sides. I don't think we could have this discussion without Jelly Bean getting Android to where it is.

 

[TheHateMachine]

It is when they add things like Google Now and Quick Settings.

You have a point on these two features.

However, as just a side note you can install notification widgets and even add a settings launcher to the drop down. Even Touchwiz comes with these by default. Also you can push Google Now's APK through recovery and get it installed on any ICS device. Not that I would advocate any of that to your average smartphone user. Side loading the APK will not let you overwrite the existing Google Search application however.

 

[strausd]

Agreeable. But a lot of points still remain. How important is it to have these new features, whatever they may be, and how important is it to have them immediately? Isn't it safe to say the current state of Android is good enough to sustain the few months it may take to get said update?

My point is that you can't say either way unless you know what the feature is. Nobody can see into the future, so you can't say new features aren't important because you have no idea what new features are coming.

And feature X will have varying levels of important to different people, it is very subjective in that sense. And if Google wants to cater to the mass market, they need to be prepared to give people the latest version as soon as possible.

 

[F123D]

And if Google wants to cater to the mass market, they need to be prepared to give people the latest version as soon as possible.

Which is what the Nexus line is for?

 

[matttye]

You have a point on these two features.

However, as just a side note you can install notification widgets and even add a settings launcher to the drop down. Even Touchwiz comes with these by default. Also you can push Google Now's APK through recovery and get it installed on any ICS device. Not that I would advocate any of that to your average smartphone user. Side loading the APK will not let you overwrite the existing Google Search application however.

The two finger swipe down for quick settings wouldn't work if it was released as a normal APK, and nor would them having a separate tab in the notification bar. You would have to add an "ongoing" notification like Widgetsoid does. Similar, but not quite the same.

Also, Google Now's integration with the OS wouldn't work perfectly if it was released as a normal APK. The swipe up from the bottom wouldn't work.

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Also true. But the question is, are immediate updates that important? You can eventually get them.

And if those updates are truly that important, it begs the question why not stick with the Nexus line, and/or flash ROMs...

Depends. If the update fixes a bug that's been annoying me, then immediate updates are important. If the update fixes a bunch of stuff that don't affect me (like the last iOS update) then there's no rush.

New features are obviously great to get hold of ASAP.

I suppose the question should be - why WOULDN'T you want immediate updates

 

[TheHateMachine]

Also, Google Now's integration with the OS wouldn't work perfectly if it was released as a normal APK. The swipe up from the bottom wouldn't work.

Google Now is already packed by XDA as a normal APK. The reason you have to use recovery is because Android will not allow you to side load it. This is because Google Now is an updated Google Search and since the device already has a signed Google Search as a system app it blocks any installation/update.

You do not need any special system integration or access to have complex gestures do things within the app or to other apps with intents in Android. Dolphin and Launcher Pro can create multi fingered gestures to do all sorts of neat stuffs all without being a system app.

 

[strausd]

Which is what the Nexus line is for?

But the real kicker is that the Nexus phones aren't for the mass market. The mass market is locked phones from carriers.

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And if those updates are truly that important, it begs the question why not stick with the Nexus line, and/or flash ROMs...

Because the Nexus phones and flashing ROMs are not for the mass market.

 

[matttye]

Google Now is already packed by XDA as a normal APK. The reason you have to use recovery is because Android will not allow you to side load it. This is because Google Now is an updated Google Search and since the device already has a signed Google Search as a system app it blocks any installation/update.

You do not need any special system integration or access to have complex gestures do things within the app or to other apps with intents in Android. Dolphin and Launcher Pro can create multi fingered gestures to do all sorts of neat stuffs all without being a system app.

I mean the swipe up from the bottom in the navigation bar (onscreen software buttons). Pretty sure that won't work when you install the app as an APK.

You can workaround it using other launchers of course, like you said, I'm merely pointing out that it's not possible to accomplish everything by simply releasing an APK.

 

[F123D]

But the real kicker is that the Nexus phones aren't for the mass market. The mass market is locked phones from carriers.

Gotcha. I wonder if T-Mobiles Nexus 4 will get immediate updates? I don't think there's any bloatware on those devices?

 

[strausd]

Gotcha. I wonder if T-Mobiles Nexus 4 will get immediate updates? I don't think there's any bloatware on those devices?

That's a good question. Considering there's no bloatware already, I think they will get the same updates. Everybody has been saying that the only real difference between buying from Google and TMobile is the location of purchase and price. The phones are identical apparently.

Also, Google didn't want another Verizon Galaxy Nexus, so I bet they had a good talk with TMobile to make sure nothing bad happens.

I'd be interested to see how many "Average Joes" just walking into TMobile to buy a general on-contract phone walk out with a Nexus 4. Considering there is no real advertising for it I doubt there will be as many as Galaxy Note 2 or GS3 buyers.

 

[F123D]

I don't know about instore but the Nexus 4 is sold out on T-Mobiles website.

 

[strausd]

I don't know about instore but the Nexus 4 is sold out on T-Mobiles website.

Too bad Google won't say how many. Sold out could mean hundreds or hundreds of thousands.

 

[Diseal3]

Seems Samsung has been doing fairly well with pushing updates to their high end phones. If you don't mind not having official updates there is always XDA.

 

[siiip5]

Considering that Google can just update the core Android apps whenever they want to add new features the OS update is not as important anymore.

This is very true, but at the same time if you say updates aren't important, it is because you have no choice in the matter, thanks to the carriers in the US. This is just like iOS users saying turn by turn nav, nfc, file managers, etc aren't important. They say this because they have no choice. If an option is available to some, but not others, and it can enhance your phone, of course you want it. Denial is just a way to cover the disappointment. Doesn't matter if it is Android, iOS or Windows Phones.

I'll take updates anyway I can get them and as soon as possible. Google can update their individual core apps via the Play Store and that is great, but iOS can update the entire OS within a few hours of release, depending on your region. Updating the whole OS at once is riskier on Android, because of the plethora of different hardware. Just look at 4.2 Jelly Bean and the bug infested mess that is! I love Android, but this is one of the worst updates since that crap called Honeycomb came out. Google was so ashamed of that, they never released the full code as open source.

 

[SlCKB0Y]

Also, Google Now's integration with the OS wouldn't work perfectly if it was released as a normal APK. The swipe up from the bottom wouldn't work.

So people just access Google Now in one of the three other ways.

Don't you think that statement is a little pedantic?

 

[ReanimationN]

I also find myself less needing to tell others which OS is better. One of them definitely is, but who cares if they don't agree? It's their choice and they live with the consequences of that choice, be it less features or no LTE, whatever it may be.

Only in your opinion, Couchy, only in your opinion. That's not the case for a lot of people out there.

 

[daveathall]

On first thoughts I thought that I wasn't really bothered about updates, after further deliberation I realised that as soon as an update came out I was one of the first adopters, so TBH, I must be bothered after all.

 

[SlCKB0Y]

Too bad Google won't say how many. Sold out could mean hundreds or hundreds of thousands.

Maybe it was 10's.. or how about 5? I think Google made 5 Nexus 4's. It's in line with your idea that they aren't for the general public too!

 

[onthecouchagain]

Only in your opinion, Couchy, only in your opinion. That's not the case for a lot of people out there.

Did you stop reading after that sentence? "One of them definitely is" could mean either.

"It's their choice and they live with the consequences of that choice, be it less features or no LTE, whatever it may be."

 

[ReanimationN]

Did you stop reading after that sentence? "One of them definitely is" could mean either.

"It's their choice and they live with the consequences of that choice, be it less features or no LTE, whatever it may be."

Yeah, I read it, but it's pretty clear which one you think is definitely superior.

 

[onthecouchagain]

Yeah, I read it, but it's pretty clear which one you think is definitely superior.

Well, yeah. And it's clear which you think is superior. That's the whole point.

 

[strausd]

Maybe it was 10's.. or how about 5? I think Google made 5 Nexus 4's. It's in line with your idea that they aren't for the general public too!

First off, I have a Nexus 4 and I love it.

Second, considering the general public just goes to a carrier's store and buys one in store from a company they know well and they have seen commercials for, I still think this isn't marketed for the general public.

 

[ReallyBigFeet]

I somewhat view software updates for smartphones as 'consolation prizes' any more. The rate of hardware updates is staggering, almost too fast to keep up. I've got perpetual buyers' remorse as no sooner do I take the plunge with one device when another pops up with something new. New may not always equal better, but if you are into gadgetry, new usually means "better for awhile."

So in that case, software updates are a means of giving me something "new" to play with without making the investment in new hardware. To that end, I welcome them and find them very useful. And the absence of them is outright harmful as it all but pushes you to upgrade. When Samsung released the Galaxy S, and then quickly followed up with carrier-specific models (Fascinate, etc.) there was a firestorm of outrage at the lack of updates for these devices since it all went to the SII devices instead. This may have been part of their "master plan" and likely even fostered by the carriers themselves (who denied users updates even once available via official channels).

This is one reason I prefer Apple's update model. While carriers can cripple certain features, the user is interacting directly with Apple for their system updates, and you can count on there being recurring system updates. So even if you aren't running the best hardware, you aren't locked out of all the goodies that come with a new update. The user maintains some choice in the matter. Not so with carrier-influenced updates on Android unless you just decide to root. Which is still only a minority of the hacker-minded Android user base.

 

[LSUtigers03]

When I use an android phone I'm always running a custom rom so I don't care about OTA updates. Before that when I would use a stock phone it was still not as big of a deal as some people make it for one reason. All my iPhones (except the 5) have been jailbroken and I kept them jailbroken so I had to wait for the new update to be jailbroken. I've gotten used to waiting on both OS's so it's not a big deal to me.