Are you still a Mac evangelist?

[44267547]

There is more to it than Steve Jobs merely being a salesman with vision.

I think Tim Cook lacks vision in a broad sense. He's got vision for industrial engineering and profits, but what I miss about the old apple and old apple products is the vision on a grander scale. This is what XXXX (computing, music, phones, networking, wireless, etc.) should be like. And then Steve Jobs had the ability to stick to his idea over decades and make whatever vision a reality as technologies emerged to make that possible.

Eh, the Apple today is an institution founded on Steve Jobs' principles rather than a niche revolutionary company.
I hope Apple can stick to the Steve principles despite being a corporation at the mercy of the shareholders.

I miss the old Apple :/

Apple is growing away further from what they once were, but this was expected, it's not the same company anymore and will never be. The idea of mercy to the shareholders is out the door. It has been. I sold my stock/shares last year and never looked back.

It's like anything, once the original founder passes, changes come, for the better? Only you can decide that. Apple is on new avenues now, ideas that never existed 20 years ago. Apple has lost a lot of its followers and gained more non-supporters, but I remain faithful to the Core and always will. They are the Dark Horse of this decade.

 

[PabloRe]

Do you know any such user friendly alternatives? I work on Macs for 20 years and yes - I am Mac Evangelist

 

[thermodynamic]

With the right reason I'll wholly support and encourage Mac use. Was one between 2009 and 2015, though I still have my Mac equipment it just doesn't get used. Over time, a little research, my own knowledge of electronic components and how they work, and observing the responses of those who just say "it's designed to run that way" (Yeah but not for the reasons they're trying to pawn off to people, the real reasons have more to do with poor QC, if not planned obsolescence.)

It all started with a certain benchmark comparison between the 15 and 17" models of the 2011 Macbook and how the 17" could perform better despite having identical processing chips and RAM (battery compensated for the woefully under-powered AC power supply, since the 17" model's was larger and yet the review site - a popular magazine - didn't figure it out.)

I also replaced an iMac with a Mac Pro of the era, for which I'm glad the warranty I bought was bought because overheating caused burn marks in the 27" screen. It's very poor engineering, contrary to those posh ads Apple put out with the "carved from a single block of blah blah blah". I later found out I was not the only person experiencing problems... or how many seem to have problems, either small or big, despite the constant claims of superior engineering...

Granted, when they replaced the 2010 Mac Pro, which was truly well built and had above average cooling mechanisms (I was applauding, big time) with that trash can for which various review sites pointed out how HOT the thing got under use (unlike previous models, due to its more compact form)... unfortunately, those review sites - typically known for going into detail - stopped doing temperature benchmarks. So I stopped going to their sites, if they're going to be lazy and not do the work, and other visitors of one site in particular was claiming the site was bought and paid for by Apple (I do believe they just stopped out of laziness, but if I went back and saw temperatures for any other products then I'd probably start to become curioius.)

What really frosted my goat was the revelation that an engineer told the Apple CEO of an antenna defect, which was ignored - thus explaining the real story, unlike the CEO screaming at customers how they were holding it wrong. No small or medium business, you know - the backbone of America's economy - would begin to get away with that sort of behavior, which customers did not deserve not just because they did nothing wrong, but since then it's been made well known what a jerk that CEO was. No ethics, character, principles, or other values (American or otherwise, maturity has no monopoly on a single nation). PC World, Bloomberg, Wired, and others all pointed out both the customer blaming (lying and blaming everyone else when knowing what's wrong is a sign of sociopathy according to the DSM) AND the engineer going to the CEO about the antenna defect (though apparently the manager was fired, but that still doesn't account for the CEO trying to blame the customers - truly a disrespectful act from a guy with a long history of being disrespectful as it turned out. He is not one to be worshipped, I'll save that for the real Christ.)

 

[shiekh]

I've been with the Mac since the beginning in 1984... but things have changed; RAM is soldered down and machines are now getting glued shut, one can't even get in to change the CMOS battery. At one point I was hopeful that OS X would be issued for generic hardware, but that has not happen.

Now Windows 10 is a free upgrade for people with Windows 7 and I have finally made the jump; not burning any bridges, just going with what is best for me, and being locked out of the hardware is personally a big issue. Gotta say the retina screen is something I have wanted for a long time now, but the option of putting a high resolution screen on a PC was a good bit cheaper, and the route I finally took. My views may be colored by the fact that I get broken stuff that I then fix for my own use, so often need to get to the insides.

Way I see it, Windows and OS X (along with Linux) drive each other to heights none would have achieved alone.

 

[CreatorCode]

There was a time when Windows had serious security and reliability problems, and PC hardware was very chintzy. At the time, th had a clearly superior product, and I would suggest it whenever I was asked.

Windows, in recent years, is much better. It's more secure, more powerful, and more stable. And PC vendors have started to include higher-end features (better displays, better trackpads, lighter and thinner laptops) as well. The Macintosh is still competitive, but is no longer clearly superior.

Apple, meanwhile, has dedicated its resources to phones, tablets, watches, and Beats® products. This has been a very successful strategy for Apple.

 

[grahamperrin]

Do you know any such user friendly alternatives? …

Much of what's done with a Mac might be done as easily with a Linux distro. It's not for everyone, but (for example) I'm sure that my late mum would have used Kubuntu without difficulty.

 

[Fried Chicken]

There was a time when Windows had serious security and reliability problems, and PC hardware was very chintzy. At the time, th had a clearly superior product, and I would suggest it whenever I was asked.

Windows, in recent years, is much better. It's more secure, more powerful, and more stable. And PC vendors have started to include higher-end features (better displays, better trackpads, lighter and thinner laptops) as well. The Macintosh is still competitive, but is no longer clearly superior.

Apple, meanwhile, has dedicated its resources to phones, tablets, watches, and Beats® products. This has been a very successful strategy for Apple.

I’d say hardware-wise macs are clearly superior. Software-wise though it’s not as clear cut.

Of course I’m basing this off of Windows 7... Microsoft can’t keep their users too happy after all.

 

[maflynn]

I’d say hardware-wise macs are clearly superior.

How so?

 

[Fried Chicken]

How so?

Design, build quality, component quality, manufacturing quality, attention to detail, reliability, styling, consistency, power consumption, noise level, depreciation.... Need I say more?

 

[maflynn]

Design, build quality, component quality, manufacturing quality, attention to detail, reliability, styling, consistency, power consumption, noise level, depreciation.... Need I say more?

Yes, because HP, Asus and Dell have great designs, wonderful styling, great battery life and all are on newer chipsets then apple. Heck, Apple's 15" MBP is still on Haswell, yet Dell and others are selling Skylake.

Reliability is not what it used to be, just ask those people in 2008 - 2011 with defective GPUs, or the 2012 and beyond with staingate.

I love my iMac, but now in 2016, there are other makers that have leap frogged Apple, in a number of ways.
This is why I think Mac sales have been dropping.

Apple's PC Sales Fall Behind ASUS as Buyers Await Next-Generation MacBook Pro and Other New Models

The news is even worse when you look at Apple's laptop line
Apple's Notebook Sales Drop to Estimated 2.5M as Buyers Await New MacBook Pro

 

[loby]

Apple had it's time and time decays all things. Yes, it might have 'sun flares' on occasion and maybe we will see some in the near future, but it is moving toward a red dwarf. With Steve Jobs passing was the end of the 'hipe' of apple. Apple seems to be now just a successful company that is still riding on the wave of the 'think different' owner, but that wave seems to have broke or curled and come to shore. Might have to look for another surf location.

Everyone blames Cook for the decline, but he is doing what he is good at and the company has made tons of money, saved on manufacturing costs (as we see the increased issues with their products), increase oversea ventures and drove the stock price up to please shareholders. He has turned the company into a "IBM" 'biz' type of company and lost the 'pirate' Sunnyvale type of feel. He did a good job at doing what he knows best. Don't blame him, he has done a good job.

I just don't like the cliff that it is leading too..

 

[maflynn]

Everyone blames Cook for the decline,

One thing to consider (and I'm no Cook fan), in a way, he was placed in an unenviable position - following a beloved, leader, who was an innovator, master salesmen. His role at Apple will forever be compared to Jobs and mostly in a negative connotation.

He has turned the company into a "IBM" 'biz' type of company and lost the 'pirate' Sunnyvale type of feel

This is what is going to hurt them in the long run, They losing their nimbleness in shifting to changing patterns, they are becoming insular in how they view customers and products, there is an increase in bureaucracy that will bog them down

Apple had it's time and time decays all things.

Even Jobs knew this, and understood Apple could not continue to be on the top for ever. I'm not saying they are no longer the best, but just pointing out that as time moves on other competitors surpass a market leader

 

[loby]

With the right reason I'll wholly support and encourage Mac use. Was one between 2009 and 2015, though I still have my Mac equipment it just doesn't get used. Over time, a little research, my own knowledge of electronic components and how they work, and observing the responses of those who just say "it's designed to run that way" (Yeah but not for the reasons they're trying to pawn off to people, the real reasons have more to do with poor QC, if not planned obsolescence.)

It all started with a certain benchmark comparison between the 15 and 17" models of the 2011 Macbook and how the 17" could perform better despite having identical processing chips and RAM (battery compensated for the woefully under-powered AC power supply, since the 17" model's was larger and yet the review site - a popular magazine - didn't figure it out.)

I also replaced an iMac with a Mac Pro of the era, for which I'm glad the warranty I bought was bought because overheating caused burn marks in the 27" screen. It's very poor engineering, contrary to those posh ads Apple put out with the "carved from a single block of blah blah blah". I later found out I was not the only person experiencing problems... or how many seem to have problems, either small or big, despite the constant claims of superior engineering...

Granted, when they replaced the 2010 Mac Pro, which was truly well built and had above average cooling mechanisms (I was applauding, big time) with that trash can for which various review sites pointed out how HOT the thing got under use (unlike previous models, due to its more compact form)... unfortunately, those review sites - typically known for going into detail - stopped doing temperature benchmarks. So I stopped going to their sites, if they're going to be lazy and not do the work, and other visitors of one site in particular was claiming the site was bought and paid for by Apple (I do believe they just stopped out of laziness, but if I went back and saw temperatures for any other products then I'd probably start to become curioius.)

What really frosted my goat was the revelation that an engineer told the Apple CEO of an antenna defect, which was ignored - thus explaining the real story, unlike the CEO screaming at customers how they were holding it wrong. No small or medium business, you know - the backbone of America's economy - would begin to get away with that sort of behavior, which customers did not deserve not just because they did nothing wrong, but since then it's been made well known what a jerk that CEO was. No ethics, character, principles, or other values (American or otherwise, maturity has no monopoly on a single nation). PC World, Bloomberg, Wired, and others all pointed out both the customer blaming (lying and blaming everyone else when knowing what's wrong is a sign of sociopathy according to the DSM) AND the engineer going to the CEO about the antenna defect (though apparently the manager was fired, but that still doesn't account for the CEO trying to blame the customers - truly a disrespectful act from a guy with a long history of being disrespectful as it turned out. He is not one to be worshipped, I'll save that for the real Christ.)

Great points and remember those scenes well....you forgot that the same iphone wifi bars was also putting out fake strong signals when in fact the wifi had a week signal along with the faulty antenna...
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One thing to consider (and I'm no Cook fan), in a way, he was placed in an unenviable position - following a beloved, leader, who was an innovator, master salesmen. His role at Apple will forever be compared to Jobs and mostly in a negative connotation.


This is what is going to hurt them in the long run, They losing their nimbleness in shifting to changing patterns, they are becoming insular in how they view customers and products, there is an increase in bureaucracy that will bog them down


Even Jobs knew this, and understood Apple could not continue to be on the top for ever. I'm not saying they are no longer the best, but just pointing out that as time moves on other competitors surpass a market leader

Agree also with everything you said. I too am not a Cook fan, not even a spec, but as far as what a CEO is suppose to do as per "biz" bean-counting shirt and tie stuff, he has done a good job as a CEO (as per business 101). Just because I do not really like the guy, especially his lack of technology vision (watch bands) does not take away from his ability as a business CEO. If I had a company that its 'number one focus' right now was to increase stock prices, save costs over producing great products, make tons of money, and increase oversea biz, especially overseas, I would hire the guy in a heart beat.

Steve Jobs knew that apple would not have the visionary lead that they had once he was gone. He was smart to know that in order for apple to continue, it needed a 'shirt and tie' bean counter, business wiz at the helm so his buddies at apple (whom he tortured for all of those years in order to make great products for us) would get a good retirement package hen he was gone.

I do not think apple really cares right now about producing great products. I think that the 'boys' who have been around are getting ready to retire and when you have that on our mind, you want to make a lot of money so you can exit well. Once the new guys fully establish themselves, many we may see some new things, but cars, watches and cosmetics are not that exciting.

 

[orioncrystalice]

I love the Mac. Love it. I cut my teeth on Mac Classics, which were a high point of elementary school, had varying encounters with the original Bondi Blue iMac and then the sunflower G4. Finally got a mid-2011 21.5" and never looked back. By now I'm spoiled to the experience because I've even tweaked my work PC to look and act as close to my iMac as possible, but when I'm in the store and I see one of the newer 27" with the 4K or 5K display, I still get that initial feeling of polish and harmony and a pleasant user experience. El Cap is so robust, the little touches and add ons e.g. Magic Trackpad and Keyboard 2 only amplify it.

Out of all my Apple products, only one runs MacOS but I consider it indispensable and the top of my hardware/software mountain. I think the maturing of iOS and mobile devices is pushing computing in general into another territory; a desktop setup is no longer viable for quite a few people, and that's ok, but it does mean the future is going to be very interesting and probably a little bit scary for hardcore Mac fans.

So would I consider myself an evangelist, all things considered? If someone was fixated on a laptop, I would absolutely recommend the MacBook. If they just want a portable device? I'll say iPad. I love Mac and see it as best in class, but the paradigm has honestly shifted. That's a good thing... as long as Mac sticks around. I like cars and trucks, and some people can use both...