It includes ARM, but Apple is emphasizing that it is really designing the whole system now, including the GPU, neural engine, and other elements.
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ARM based MacBook Pro discussion [merged]
- Thread starter Omega Mac
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I wonder if it has something to do with the Mac Pro production facility in Texas.
This is me. I don't need Bootcamp even though I would like to have the option. Windows on Parallels would be enough for my current use cases.
I was getting very close to pulling the trigger and ordering a 10th gen 13 inch pro this week. Now I have no clue. Wondering if I should just get a magic keyboard for my iPad Pro to tie me over until an ARM MacBook releases?
I won't buy anything new without more details on capabilities. My current systems should be good enough for another couple of years unless I have hardware failures. I think that I am due for a new work Mac either this year or next (I need to check our provisioning system). My guess is that I'd be up for a 13 inch 2020 MacBook Pro which would be fine. I have a really big fan that I can use to keep it cool.
Just like they supported MacBook Air 1.1, which was sold with 10.5 and dropped after 10.7? And like “white“ iMacs? Not mentioning the last PPCs sold in 2006 to be useless in 2008.
Anyways, do I really need “support” from Apple when I see something like ”this version of MS Office cannot be installed on this OS”? I use the software, not the OS itself...
Let's wait and see for them to actually confirm how long they plan to support the Intel Macs. No guarantee they'll drop it as quickly as they did the PowerPC ones. Same goes for the softwares, it's up to the individual devs how long to support, and Universal mentioned in the presentation made it sound like maintaining both versions wouldn't be a hassle, but we'll see.
I would guess the "power systems", Mac Pro, iMac Pro & MacBook Pro, are still a year out? Right now it would be Mac mini followed by MacBook and iMac. Guessing consumer first, then Pro later. But overall this will be done I would guess by end of next year possibly?
I am on the fence of a MBP and might just buy it and then trade it in it a year or two when the new model is available. Problem is not much demand for Intel systems I would guess after next year.
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I am on the fence of a MBP and might just buy it and then trade it in it a year or two when the new model is available. Problem is not much demand for Intel systems I would guess after next year.
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Get the device you need now. It will still take time for Apple to move to new hardware and you could trade in later.
I read a writeup and they're doing code translation (at install time or JIT) so I don't have any concerns about running x86 hardware. Well, some, as some programs use generated code and that likely won't work. But I don't think that I'll be that impacted:
Apple sells a lot of systems into the corporate market and they'd have support contracts to be able to win those contracts. Microsoft is exactly the same way. My guess is that you'd get five years at the most as I don't see contracts longer than that. Three years minimum is a given though. Or else corporate customers would just go back to Lenovo.
Apple sells a lot of systems into the corporate market and they'd have support contracts to be able to win those contracts. Microsoft is exactly the same way. My guess is that you'd get five years at the most as I don't see contracts longer than that. Three years minimum is a given though. Or else corporate customers would just go back to Lenovo.
I'm considering a similar move. I need something now-ish but i would wait for an ARM 16" MBP if i could. I'm considering getting a base 2.3 GHz MBP 16" to handle my current work needs for the next year or two. Then sell/trade in and get the ARM version when it's available and just accept the loss. Maybe i'll buy slightly used or from the Apple refurb store at the discount, to try to balance out the inevitable loss i'll take on the lower resale value of these last Intel Macs will likely have.
I’m also torn here. My mid 2012 MBP is due an upgrade and was all set to buy a new MBP. However, I’m currently thinking of just upgrading my iPad to 12.9 iPad Pro and just sticking with my 2012 MBP for the odd task I can’t do with iPad OS until the ARM models come out.
Maybe with the 12.9 iPad Pro I’ll end up in a situation where I don’t really need a MBP and an ARM Mac mini (if they release one for consumer) hooked up to my tv or an entry level ARM MacBook Air or whatever will cover those tasks I can’t do on iPad.
Maybe with the 12.9 iPad Pro I’ll end up in a situation where I don’t really need a MBP and an ARM Mac mini (if they release one for consumer) hooked up to my tv or an entry level ARM MacBook Air or whatever will cover those tasks I can’t do on iPad.
I will upgrade my 2018 13.3 inch macbook pro if they did that and get the new ARM 14 inch macbook pro..for me it would be worth the upgrade hopefully it comes out towards the end of the year like the rumors have said
Yes, lets wait. Until that I will not buy and will not recommend anyone to buy any Mac - Intel or ARM. Except for cheap 2013s just to run Windows
I’m sure Apple will want to get all Macs onto the new silicon as quickly as possible. Apple said the Intel transition would take up to 2 years, and they did it in half the time. Granted, the 2nd generation 64-bit Core 2 Duo MacBooks lasted longer than the 1st Generation 32-bit Core Duo MacBooks, but this time around Apple is in control of the roadmap.
What's up with the Windows subsystem for Linux? Will Windows one day turn out to be Linux under the hood? If that is the trend, well... makes sense to demo Linux...
You can always run Windows orWas he running Linux ARM or Linux x86? I imagine it wouldn't be hard to run Linux ARM on an ARM host.
The rumor we got yesterday is that the first ARM MBP won’t be a redesign, but would just be dropping an Apple chip in the current design. The redesign coming in 2021.
I also hope the redesign comes right away as I’m on a 2012 that won’t be getting Big Sur but I don’t want to buy before the impending redesign.
According to Geekbench 5’s single-core benchmark, the recent iPhone SE scores 1330, while the i9 16” MBP scores 1265.
The demo was running Debian Linux for ARM in virtualization. There’s no reason to expect that x86 Linux or Windows will work in a virtual machine on ARM-based Macs.
The almost certain reality is that ARM macOS spells the end of Bootcamp as well as Windows virtualization via VMware or Parallels Desktop.
These are my thoughts too. If they do manage to support the ARM version of windows 10 at some point then that might be an option. But I’m not sure how well the emulator within ARM Windows 10 itself will end up running x86 windows apps. It all sounds like a bit of a headache to me. The current intel MacBook Pro 16 has great specs, personally I’m going to get one of those and hopefully save some hassle down the line.
I agree. It would be more like code translation but, even then, getting a whole operating system translated would be a daunting task and I don't think that even the best code translators would be able to do that without manual effort.
If you generate code on the fly or use certain kinds of jump tables, I'd expect code translators to get confused.
True. However, they have at least a couple steps ahead vs if they stick with intel.
First, now the base Mac will have at least iPad-Pro level GPU performance. With intel, majority of Macs are stuck with the crappy intel integrated graphics. Second, with more thermal headroom, Apple can even put in multiple Ax chips to boost performance if there are some bottlenecks in the manufacturing. I mean imagine a Macbook with 2 or 4 A12Z chips. The smaller die size is already major leap forward.
I'm sure Apple already look at TSMC's roadmap way ahead. But you're right, the bottleneck will be there, but that line is just moved way further vs currently on intel.
The ARM macs will be my first mac. I was going to get the 13” 10th gen i5 but decided to wait for wwdc. After seeing that all apple programs are already brought over that checked a lot of boxes for me. I just needed the affinity programs which were what I was worried about. But since they can run under rosetta that gave me everything I needed to have the experience I want. Plus the affinity programs already have an ios version (publisher in the works) so I would expect native apps from them soon. I hope the MBP comes this year so I can get it
They do state that Rosetta 2 supports JIT. I assume it works by intercepting executable pages. One your x86 JIT has written new code, they can flag the page as dirty and send it to the ARM transpiler. Since most JITs are per-function AOT compilers, it should work well. The only problem might be with tracing-based JIT which generates code based on data patters... but even then it’ll just be a bit added latency. If the performance if the chip is good enough, it might run as fast as native or faster.
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P.S. By the way, I feel mightly childishly pleased with myself, since I have predicted they would be transpiling x86 to ARM the moment this discussion started
Looks I was 100% spot on!
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