ARM Procssors in Mac's and will I Still be Able to Run Windows?

[maflynn]

Still, it's always Apple that drags the rest of the industry kicking and screaming into the future. So, it may happen. Who knows.

How is the ARM processor the future for desktop/laptop computers? The intel chipset is superior in nearly every area - except in power consumption.

Instead of dragging the industry into the future, I see apple's Mac line being isolated and falling behind.

Do you think an emulation layer to allow intel apps to run would be running very well?

I also don't think adobe would take the time and money to roll out an ARM based version of of its creative suite. Instead it may port the iOS version of its image editing app. Same with MS, they'd port the iOS version of Office, which lacks the same level of features as the full desktop version.

 

[lowendlinux]

How is the ARM processor the future for desktop/laptop computers? The intel chipset is superior in nearly every area - except in power consumption.

Instead of dragging the industry into the future, I see apple's Mac line being isolated and falling behind.

Do you think an emulation layer to allow intel apps to run would be running very well?

I also don't think adobe would take the time and money to roll out an ARM based version of of its creative suite. Instead it may port the iOS version of its image editing app. Same with MS, they'd port the iOS version of Office, which lacks the same level of features as the full desktop version.

Adobe has made the CS available to educators and students that runs on Chrome Books. Adobe will go where there is money to be made.

 

[maflynn]

Adobe has made the CS available to educators and students that runs on Chrome Books. Adobe will go where there is money to be made.

Its not the full suite, i.e., Adobe Photoshop Streaming Edition, which is my point exactly. They may provide a version but it will not be the same full featured product.

Source
Adobe Creative Cloud Comes To Chromebooks With Photoshop

 

[lowendlinux]

Its not the full suite, i.e., Adobe Photoshop Streaming Edition, which is my point exactly. They may provide a version but it will not be the same full featured product.

Source
Adobe Creative Cloud Comes To Chromebooks With Photoshop

The point wasn't whether it the full suite the point was Adobe will go where the money is hence, CC on Linux (something they said they'll never support) on ARM. If the Mac line were to change Adobe would make the full suite available on ARM, just like they ported from PowerPC to Intel. Apple doesn't own much market share but they do own mind share and Apple users are willing to spend money.

 

[maflynn]

The point wasn't whether it the full suite the point was Adobe will go where the money is hence

No my point is that at best an ARM based Mac would may only get an iOS version of their products and not the full suite. Adobe will follow the money, and imo there is no money in apple transitioning over to ARM.

I also don't think adobe would take the time and money to roll out an ARM based version of of its creative suite. Instead it may port the iOS version of its image editing app. Same with MS, they'd port the iOS version of Office, which lacks the same level of features as the full desktop version.

 

[lowendlinux]

No my point is that at best an ARM based Mac would may only get an iOS version of their products and not the full suite. Adobe will follow the money, and imo there is no money in apple transitioning over to ARM.

I disagree, I think they'll get the full suite because they won't leave the Apple market.

 

[AllieNeko]

I think instead of a complete change over, they'll do what MS did (and failed). Provide an intel based computer and an ARM based computer (as a low cost alternative).

I also think the results will be the same as MS - utter failure.

How can you call it an "utter failure" when Windows 10 will work on ARM. Windows RT is dead not because Microsoft is giving up on ARM, but because they're integrating it further. Windows 10 will run on ARM, not a special "RT" version.

 

[Michael Goff]

How can you call it an "utter failure" when Windows 10 will work on ARM. Windows RT is dead not because Microsoft is giving up on ARM, but because they're integrating it further. Windows 10 will run on ARM, not a special "RT" version.

But you likely will never be able to buy a copy of Windows for ARM.

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I disagree, I think they'll get the full suite because they won't leave the Apple market.

I think most of the market will level Apple if they moved all Macs to ARM.

 

[AllieNeko]

But you likely will never be able to buy a copy of Windows for ARM.

But you'll be able to download it for free for Raspberry Pi, and as a free upgrade for Windows RT devices (presumably, at least probably for the Surface and Nokia).

 

[snorkelman]

Personlly I buy Windows purely as a launchpad for Windows only apps, performance issues aside an ARM port of windows just doesnt appeal if it dont have the apps

..and the chances of the apps I'd need ever getting ported is nil (which is kinda ironic given most of them are for server side admin of ARM based embedded devices)

If it takes non mainstream developers years to bring stuff up to a level it can cope with running cleanly on W7 rather than XP, I don't hold out much hope of a sudden rush to embrace ARM

 

[Michael Goff]

But you'll be able to download it for free for Raspberry Pi, and as a free upgrade for Windows RT devices (presumably, at least probably for the Surface and Nokia).

Will you? Have they said this? Windows RT won't get 10.

 

[lowendlinux]

The way I took that announcement was 10 will be free for the Pi and 10 will encompass both Arm and x86 without a different identifier. We as a computer using public are using more and more Arm that why I don't think it's a stretch to envision Arm Macs. MS showed how NOT to do it, Apple for all their warts can do this correctly.

 

[maflynn]

How can you call it an "utter failure" when Windows 10 will work on ARM. Windows RT is dead not because Microsoft is giving up on ARM, but because they're integrating it further. Windows 10 will run on ARM, not a special "RT" version.

MS has stopped producing Surface [non pro] tablet, most computer makers avoided using win rt because MS had the surface tablet. Windows RT was confusing to people. ARM based tablets are an utter failure, why buy one when the latest Atom based tablets can run a full copy of windows, they perform decently and have good battery life.

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Will you? Have they said this? Windows RT won't get 10.

The only thing we'll see for ARM based windows is MS' Internet of things, i.e., embedded products. I thing for all intents and purposes Windows RT (the ARM version of Windows) is dead. I'm not sold on MS rolling it into windows 10, at least I've not seen any news, or rumors on this.

 

[viorelgn]

Personally, I'm not a fan of it at all. I'm quite happy with Intel as a power user, and wish Intel would work something out so Apple and them could co-design mobile cpus that are both powerful and energy efficient. Intel has a lot of great minds, they need to figure something out, soon.

 

[maflynn]

Personally, I'm not a fan of it at all. I'm quite happy with Intel as a power user, and wish Intel would work something out so Apple and them could co-design mobile cpus that are both powerful and energy efficient. Intel has a lot of great minds, they need to figure something out, soon.

Agreed, and for my needs (and wants) if Apple were to leave the Intel platform, that would mean they'd lose a customer. Maybe, to them, I'd be a drop in the bucket but, I'd be looking elsewhere for my computing needs. I hope it doesn't come to that, I've had Macs in my house since the Macintosh SE days.

 

[Renzatic]

The only thing we'll see for ARM based windows is MS' Internet of things, i.e., embedded products. I thing for all intents and purposes Windows RT (the ARM version of Windows) is dead. I'm not sold on MS rolling it into windows 10, at least I've not seen any news, or rumors on this.

As someone else here told me (maybe in this very thread), MS will be spinning Win10 onto ARM as a part of their big Internet of Things push. It won't be a full, standalone version of Windows 10 (at least not starting out), but Windows on ARM will be around in some shape, form, or fashion.

ARM is very quickly becoming a competitor for Intel and x86. Right now, it doesn't work as a direct replacement, but who knows what the future'll bring. While MS isn't supporting it directly at the moment, they're far from ditching it entirely.

 

[Michael Goff]

MS has stopped producing Surface [non pro] tablet, most computer makers avoided using win rt because MS had the surface tablet. Windows RT was confusing to people. ARM based tablets are an utter failure, why buy one when the latest Atom based tablets can run a full copy of windows, they perform decently and have good battery life.

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The only thing we'll see for ARM based windows is MS' Internet of things, i.e., embedded products. I thing for all intents and purposes Windows RT (the ARM version of Windows) is dead. I'm not sold on MS rolling it into windows 10, at least I've not seen any news, or rumors on this.

I know they're on the record as saying no Surface will get 10. It will get some updates and features from it, but that's it.

 

[AllieNeko]

Will you? Have they said this? Windows RT won't get 10.

Raspberry Pi they have committed to, yes. As for Windows RT devices, it is speculation. If they build it why wouldn't they release it? It builds customer loyalty.

 

[Michael Goff]

Raspberry Pi they have committed to, yes. As for Windows RT devices, it is speculation. If they build it why wouldn't they release it? It builds customer loyalty.

Well, yes, you can buy Raspberry Pi. But it's likely embedded, so you're not buying the OS and putting it onto the hardware.


Edit: As for the Surface RT

Surface Pro 3 (and the entire Surface Pro lineup) will update to Windows 10. We are working on an update for Surface, which will have some of the functionality of Windows 10. More information to come.” –Microsoft spokesperson

They will not get 10.

 

[AllieNeko]

Well, yes, you can buy Raspberry Pi. But it's likely embedded, so you're not buying the OS and putting it onto the hardware.


Edit: As for the Surface RT

Surface Pro 3 (and the entire Surface Pro lineup) will update to Windows 10. We are working on an update for Surface, which will have some of the functionality of Windows 10. More information to come.” –Microsoft spokesperson

They will not get 10.

Interesting, but yes, you'll be putting the OS on the hardware with Raspberry Pi - that's how RasPi works.

 

[maflynn]

As someone else here told me (maybe in this very thread), MS will be spinning Win10 onto ARM as a part of their big Internet of Things push. It won't be a full, standalone version of Windows 10 (at least not starting out), but Windows on ARM will be around in some shape, form, or fashion.

ARM is very quickly becoming a competitor for Intel and x86. Right now, it doesn't work as a direct replacement, but who knows what the future'll bring. While MS isn't supporting it directly at the moment, they're far from ditching it entirely.

But the Internet of things is not related to tablets or laptops as I understand it. I've not heard that MS is including the ARM code in a unified code base, but that doesn't mean they didn't say or that it won't happen. I still think though an ARM based tablet or computer running windows is dead. To bring this back onto the topic at hand, I've used this reasoning to support my supposition that for many (most?) consumers this will be a major issue that will drive down sales of Macs.

I see no reason why apple would chose to shift to a whole new platform, it makes no economic, business or common sense. When Apple went to the PPC, they did so because they needed to shift to a RISC platform using Moto and IBM, They believed at the time, this will propel them in front of Intel in performance and power, which it did I believe for a while.

The second transition was needed for their very survival. IBM over promised on the G5, and under delivered. They had trouble providing apple with the quantities they needed to fulfill computer orders, they were unable to provide a low power variant for laptops (even though they promised it they would), they failed to deliver a 3GHz version (back during when cycle rates were king).

Since the G5 was an IBM only creation, Moto wasn't going to or able to help and Moto was getting out of the PPC chip business, i.e., spinning off the division as freescale.

My point is the prior platform changes were born out of Apple's need to keep up with the competition or more so to survive.

With a move to ARM processors, none of that is needed, Apple has enjoyed great Mac sales while the industry languished I believe in part because of the Intel chipset. Move off that, and you remove a major advantage.

 

[lowendlinux]

http://www.techtimes.com/articles/30410/20150214/tasty-treat-new-raspberry-pi-here-faster-better-still-35.htm

Here's an article that talks about Windows10 and the Pi 2

 

[Renzatic]

But the Internet of things is not related to tablets or laptops as I understand it. I've not heard that MS is including the ARM code in a unified code base, but that doesn't mean they didn't say or that it won't happen. I still think though an ARM based tablet or computer running windows is dead.

I just realized that neither one of us have been considering Windows Phone and Universal Apps. WP is obviously ARM based primarily, running the same kernel alongside a goodly chunk of the same APIs as desktop Win10. If Universal Apps take off in any significant way, MS will have an entire set of platform agnostic applications at their disposal, ready to roll onto any processor architecture they feel like slapping it onto.

You're right insofar that WinRT is all but dead. But MS is still hedging their bets when it comes to ARM.

 

[maflynn]

You're right insofar that WinRT is all but dead. But MS is still hedging their bets when it comes to ARM.

They are, but I still question the viability of Apple going this route for laptops/desktops.

 

[Michael Goff]

Interesting, but yes, you'll be putting the OS on the hardware with Raspberry Pi - that's how RasPi works.

Except we don't know if Microsoft is just going to throw embedded on there and call it good. Or if it's something made specific for the raspberry hardware.