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Puonti

macrumors 68000
Mar 14, 2011
1,567
1,187
My money is on A.

That's indeed how it turned out.

I see no reason why Apple can’t charge much lower prices for the Mac when they will essentially be running with iPad hardware and the iPad can be found as low as $329.

Apple doesn't always hit the mark, but it's clear that their value proposition is built around privacy and security, interoperability between their products, ease-of-use, good industrial design, the occasional innovation and a steady, unexciting march forward in absolute performance and in the case of their own silicon performance-per-watt.

Considering this, I don't believe that "being able to charge lower prices" will have as big of an effect on the retail prices of their products as some think. After all, you still won't be able to run macOS and iOS on anyone else's hardware and both are big selling points for Apple. Some configurations might show a price dip resulting from switching Intel CPUs for Apple ones, but nobody knows for sure what configurations Apple will actually offer to customers.

Certainly I don't expect anyone to be able to say "Apple is now affordable across the board" once they complete the transition. Apple will come up with new hardware / configurations that will negate savings from switching to more affordable chips.
 

Waragainstsleep

macrumors 6502a
Oct 15, 2003
612
221
UK
They won't be as cheap as iPads, some differentiation is required, but they have plenty of room to lower the price without hurting iPad sales.
 

cool11

macrumors 68000
Sep 3, 2006
1,823
223
At least, I think we can agree, that the new arm macs, will not be more expensive than the current equivalent models!
What do you think?
 

Puonti

macrumors 68000
Mar 14, 2011
1,567
1,187
It really depends on when Apple adds microLED displays to their MacBooks with Apple silicon. That's likely going to increase the prices of those models.
 
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Spock

macrumors 68040
Jan 6, 2002
3,527
7,578
Vulcan
It really depends on when Apple adds microLED displays to their MacBooks with Apple silicon. That's likely going to increase the prices of those models.
I agree with that, the only Mac that I think would actually get a price drop is the Mac mini and MAYBE a new iMac.
 

UBS28

macrumors 68030
Oct 2, 2012
2,893
2,340
I hope that we can see the return of the $499 Mac mini. I think that is totally doable, they can make the iPhone SE with the latest A series chips for $399 why not a Mac mini? Since the Mac mini wont need cellular modems, a screen and everything else that makes an iPhone. I want a Mac mini the same size as the Apple TV, that would be a game changer for the Mac. I would just mount it to the back of my old 2012 iMac and use target display mode and I’d have a nice Apple silicon iMac. ?

They can but they won't. ARM Mac = cash grab.

If Apple cared about performance, they would have switched to AMD a long time ago.
 

Cookie18

macrumors 6502a
Sep 11, 2014
584
684
France
They can but they won't. ARM Mac = cash grab.

If Apple cared about performance, they would have switched to AMD a long time ago.

It seems fairly obvious that Apple didn’t switch to AMD because they were preparing this switch to ARM. Why change if you know you will have to change again soon after? AMD has only really been competitive again for a couple of years now and it directly overlaps with their plans to switch to ARM.
 
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Shivetya

macrumors 68000
Jan 16, 2008
1,669
306
I am going with they may have one or two models at similar pricing today but nothing you want to own and the real power systems will cost more than intel equivalents. Considering how vastly over priced Apple TV is compared to any competitor I just don't have faith in their pricing. Will be real fun how they play with benchmarks, namely which ones they brush over or tweak
 

BeatCrazy

macrumors 603
Jul 20, 2011
5,122
4,480
I am going with they may have one or two models at similar pricing today but nothing you want to own and the real power systems will cost more than intel equivalents. Considering how vastly over priced Apple TV is compared to any competitor I just don't have faith in their pricing. Will be real fun how they play with benchmarks, namely which ones they brush over or tweak

Pretty much this. Apple doesn’t want to lower their average selling price. Best case, they keep the same price(s) and give you 25-50% more performance for the dollar.
 

deconstruct60

macrumors G5
Mar 10, 2009
12,493
4,053
I see no reason why Apple can’t charge much lower prices for the Mac when they will essentially be running with iPad hardware and the iPad can be found as low as $329.

The iPad uses a "hand me down" SoC.
Compared to the top of the line iPad Pro
https://www.apple.com/ipad/compare/?device1=ipad-pro-12-9&device2=ipad

it is two generations older ( A10 versus A12Z ). It is currently 3 back from the iPhone. And by mid October it will be 4 generations back. ( probably won't iterate to A11 or A12 until Spring 2021 ).
Not only is it more than a couple generations back it is the "hand me down" from a much higher volume product line. iPhones sell in the triple digit millions. The Mac Apple Silicon will not.

The A10 is cheaper because it is already paid for and fabricated on older equipment with far lower relative demand ( compared to wafer starts available. )

The tech screen is old. The touch ID old. the camera gimped (relative the leading edge ).


Individual Mac models will sell in much lower volume that iPads do. ( even iPad Pro is group them together since they use the exact same processor not matter what the screen size varies to in each generation. ). The Apple Silicon SoCs are going to be more expensive to make in part they will sell in lower volumes. Scale matters when it comes to custom silicon cost/price.

The iPads also only support two USB ports (one through the new fancy optional keyboard, but nominally just one USB port). Basically limited video out. ( primarily focused on being wireless only ). Macs , with rare exception in modern era, support multiple Thunderbolt ports. Also discrete GPUs in some configurations. High double digit ( if not triple digit ) RAM capacities.
The Developer Transition Kit (DTK) doesn't have to be a real Mac because it will never be sold. It just has to run some general apps in the mean time until there are realized products for sale.
(and it is running an iPad Pro part , not an iPad part. )


The whole notion that the 'use old parts to hit the lowest price point" , $329 iPad should be used as prince anchor for a Mac price expectation level is just grossly flawed. Apple isn't going to be out to sell the oldest possible hardware that they can get away with in the new Macs. The iOS/iPadOS product line ups have the "sell older generation models at lower prices " strategy. The Mac product line up doesn't have that general rule.

When new Mac comes out in a category then the old one is discontinued. ( there are some rare corner cases like the MBP 13" 2012 non-retina. But Apple had the new Retina line up that was really the "new" MBPs. ) There hasn't been a Mac product update where Apple jumped to an 2-3 generation older Intel product when there was a viable current generation option available. ( Of late Apple has stayed on an older where Intel's new really hasn't offered much to jump "up" to. But that is actually part of the motivation to move off the platform. That isn't something Apple has demonstrated any desire to jump to for the Mac line up. )

In the Mac product line up, Apple is extremely likely going to take any CPU package cost reductions relative to Intel and apply them to something else. For example, if the SoC costs goes from $275 to $125 that Apple would apply that to a bigger SSD and/or better screen. That would leave the overall system bill of material costs the same , so the end user system price would stay the same.
Apple's $400/TB SSD pricing leaves their systems with relatively smaller capacities then the general competitive laptop/desktop market. The CPU package cost going down can largely be eaten up by just allocating a 512GB SSD starting point.

Similarly, Apple slaps large mark-up on the Intel CPU BTO upgrades they offer. Probably won't be a huge price drops there either.

Mac Mini. entry, standard configuration CPU i3-8100B ( $133 )

it has a $300 BTO upgrade to the i7-8700B ( using 8700 model link that has a price ) which is in the $329 zone.

So effectively Apple is giving only a $29 'credit' for turning in a $133 CPU. Apple is likely still going to have a relatively high binning+inventory mark up fee dropped on top of the Apple Silicon options.

Intel CPUs aren't 'dirt cheap' but a major contributing factor to the high end user cost of CPUs in Macs is Apple; not just Intel. That isn't going to disappear when it is an Apple SoC sitting there.
 

Spock

macrumors 68040
Jan 6, 2002
3,527
7,578
Vulcan
The iPad uses a "hand me down" SoC.
Compared to the top of the line iPad Pro
https://www.apple.com/ipad/compare/?device1=ipad-pro-12-9&device2=ipad

it is two generations older ( A10 versus A12Z ). It is currently 3 back from the iPhone. And by mid October it will be 4 generations back. ( probably won't iterate to A11 or A12 until Spring 2021 ).
Not only is it more than a couple generations back it is the "hand me down" from a much higher volume product line. iPhones sell in the triple digit millions. The Mac Apple Silicon will not.

The A10 is cheaper because it is already paid for and fabricated on older equipment with far lower relative demand ( compared to wafer starts available. )

The tech screen is old. The touch ID old. the camera gimped (relative the leading edge ).


Individual Mac models will sell in much lower volume that iPads do. ( even iPad Pro is group them together since they use the exact same processor not matter what the screen size varies to in each generation. ). The Apple Silicon SoCs are going to be more expensive to make in part they will sell in lower volumes. Scale matters when it comes to custom silicon cost/price.

The iPads also only support two USB ports (one through the new fancy optional keyboard, but nominally just one USB port). Basically limited video out. ( primarily focused on being wireless only ). Macs , with rare exception in modern era, support multiple Thunderbolt ports. Also discrete GPUs in some configurations. High double digit ( if not triple digit ) RAM capacities.
The Developer Transition Kit (DTK) doesn't have to be a real Mac because it will never be sold. It just has to run some general apps in the mean time until there are realized products for sale.
(and it is running an iPad Pro part , not an iPad part. )


The whole notion that the 'use old parts to hit the lowest price point" , $329 iPad should be used as prince anchor for a Mac price expectation level is just grossly flawed. Apple isn't going to be out to sell the oldest possible hardware that they can get away with in the new Macs. The iOS/iPadOS product line ups have the "sell older generation models at lower prices " strategy. The Mac product line up doesn't have that general rule.

When new Mac comes out in a category then the old one is discontinued. ( there are some rare corner cases like the MBP 13" 2012 non-retina. But Apple had the new Retina line up that was really the "new" MBPs. ) There hasn't been a Mac product update where Apple jumped to an 2-3 generation older Intel product when there was a viable current generation option available. ( Of late Apple has stayed on an older where Intel's new really hasn't offered much to jump "up" to. But that is actually part of the motivation to move off the platform. That isn't something Apple has demonstrated any desire to jump to for the Mac line up. )

In the Mac product line up, Apple is extremely likely going to take any CPU package cost reductions relative to Intel and apply them to something else. For example, if the SoC costs goes from $275 to $125 that Apple would apply that to a bigger SSD and/or better screen. That would leave the overall system bill of material costs the same , so the end user system price would stay the same.
Apple's $400/TB SSD pricing leaves their systems with relatively smaller capacities then the general competitive laptop/desktop market. The CPU package cost going down can largely be eaten up by just allocating a 512GB SSD starting point.

Similarly, Apple slaps large mark-up on the Intel CPU BTO upgrades they offer. Probably won't be a huge price drops there either.

Mac Mini. entry, standard configuration CPU i3-8100B ( $133 )

it has a $300 BTO upgrade to the i7-8700B ( using 8700 model link that has a price ) which is in the $329 zone.

So effectively Apple is giving only a $29 'credit' for turning in a $133 CPU. Apple is likely still going to have a relatively high binning+inventory mark up fee dropped on top of the Apple Silicon options.

Intel CPUs aren't 'dirt cheap' but a major contributing factor to the high end user cost of CPUs in Macs is Apple; not just Intel. That isn't going to disappear when it is an Apple SoC sitting there.
I don’t expect Apple to lower the price down to $329, I was simply referencing how low the price of the iPad has become over the years and is still a very capable device that rivals the performance of my 2014 MacBook Pro. If they can release a $399 iPhone SE with the latest SOC, I see no reason why they can’t release a Mac mini with the A13, 8 gigs of ram and a 256 gig SSD far less than the current Mac mini starting price at $799.
 
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Tech198

Cancelled
Mar 21, 2011
15,915
2,151
If it doesn't have a 40% profit margin, Timmy dumps it.

The prices will either stay the same or go up.

You'll always see that potential $100 saving on refurbished Macs i bet... Even if they are silicon.
Apple could offer price reduction brand-new, just because its not an Intel chip, but i guess the drawback could come a a convince of more battery and faster performance.
 

Woochoo

macrumors 6502a
Oct 12, 2014
551
511
I haven't had time to read the 10 pages of this discussion so it may have been mentioned already, but Apple SoCs cost them 66 bucks each. Let's call it 100-150 depending on the model, due to increase of core count number (thus more die space needed, thus less SoCs per waffer).

Intel CPUs cost them from 250 bucks to 600 IIRC. That means that Apple, at least, would cut $150 in costs, up to 400-450 rounding numbers. That could perfectly translate in a slight ($100-200) price decrease to attract customers in the first versions, specially when many people are still wary about new Macs being able to do everything they can with Intels.
 

dallas112678

macrumors 6502a
Feb 17, 2008
821
606
No way prices will go down, Apple won’t want to risk their computers being less “premium” due to lowering the price, and they will like to take in more profit from maintaining the price with lower costs. If anything, I think they’ll use the fact that they are now creating their own silicon for better performance as a reason to raise the price.
 

dmccloud

macrumors 68040
Sep 7, 2009
3,138
1,899
Anchorage, AK
They can but they won't. ARM Mac = cash grab.

If Apple cared about performance, they would have switched to AMD a long time ago.

AMD had been lagging behind Intel for years until the 3rd generation Ryzen parts dropped. Plus, jumping to AMD would have resulted in heavier and most likely thicker laptops because of cooling needs.
 

thenewperson

macrumors 6502a
Mar 27, 2011
992
912
AMD had been lagging behind Intel for years until the 3rd generation Ryzen parts dropped. Plus, jumping to AMD would have resulted in heavier and most likely thicker laptops because of cooling needs.

Anyone mentioning AMD as a viable option until very recently (at which Apple had already obviously decided and were actively working on everything necessary for ASi in macOS) is smoking something.
 
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hobowankenobi

macrumors 68020
Aug 27, 2015
2,123
935
on the land line mr. smith.
Pretty much this. Apple doesn’t want to lower their average selling price. Best case, they keep the same price(s) and give you 25-50% more performance for the dollar.

Agreed. It has always been based on value, not price. Seems to have worked, based on their success.?

I could see a combo of small price reductions for similarly placed products coupled with improved specs. Increased value.

They could also lower prices if they wanted to increase market share, but that seems less likely, based on current success and profitability. It has happend before...see: eMac, first Mac Mini, and iPhone SE 2.

Wild Card: They could introduce new products into new segments of the market...like a Chromebook alternative as others have mentioned. And that would only happen if they saw a way to be profitable...which may not be the case. One could argue low-end iPad is the best option, and that has not put much if a dent in Chromebooks in Edu. perhaps iPad power minus touch, add keyboard. If they do, they will have good differentiation between:

  1. Entry/Edu
  2. General purpose/Consumer
  3. High Performance/Pro
 

TrevorR90

macrumors 6502
Oct 1, 2009
379
299
No way that there's going to be a price drop on any model. Switching to an in house processor just means they can make more money.
 

Cookie18

macrumors 6502a
Sep 11, 2014
584
684
France
No way that there's going to be a price drop on any model. Switching to an in house processor just means they can make more money.

Might want to temper your definitive statements there. There’s even been rumours of an $800 MacBook. We have no idea what’s going to happen. $200 or so off each level isn’t crazy. $1300 MacBook Pro becomes $1100, $1300 iMac goes to $1100 and $800 Mac Mini goes to $600. Those are all very possible options.

Still, we don’t know anything for certain.
 

TrevorR90

macrumors 6502
Oct 1, 2009
379
299
Might want to temper your definitive statements there. There’s even been rumours of an $800 MacBook. We have no idea what’s going to happen. $200 or so off each level isn’t crazy. $1300 MacBook Pro becomes $1100, $1300 iMac goes to $1100 and $800 Mac Mini goes to $600. Those are all very possible options.

Still, we don’t know anything for certain.

I meant for my post to be sarcastic and a jab at profit margins lol.

To be fair, I just read my post again and it seems serious, my bad!

I'm hoping for a price drop and I think Apple could make it happen. I guess the first indication of this being a possibility is with the new iphone not shipping with ear phones/charger, we shall see with the pricing?
 

Cookie18

macrumors 6502a
Sep 11, 2014
584
684
France
I meant for my post to be sarcastic and a jab at profit margins lol.

To be fair, I just read my post again and it seems serious, my bad!

I'm hoping for a price drop and I think Apple could make it happen. I guess the first indication of this being a possibility is with the new iphone not shipping with ear phones/charger, we shall see with the pricing?

Ah, it didn’t come across lol. I agree with the sentiment though.

That’s a good idea, that could be a good indicator.
 

professorjay

macrumors member
May 13, 2007
84
0
I can see it staying the same, where the savings increases profit margin and/or some of the savings goes to upgrade other components.

Or there’s a slight decrease to help ease trepidation and tout how revolutionary their SOC is that they can be faster and cheaper at the same time. Plus with Apple seemingly finding the will now to have lower price points to gain even more market share, they might be able to do all that and still increase their margins.

But to the point that Apple doesn’t want to lose their premium pricing (I agree), if they decrease by $100-200, some of their product line would still be considered a premium price point so I wouldn’t count it out.
 

MrGunnyPT

macrumors 65816
Mar 23, 2017
1,313
804
Intel CPUs are very very expensive, don't also forget the same for custom GPUs from AMD.

Anyway I can see a price decrease in the first few gens to get ARM out there.
 
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