AT&T coverage map & Verizon coverage map..

[aristobrat]

You have no idea what you're talking about. Either you're just a blind fanboy or you've done nothing but read Wiki articles about this stuff. Verizon's EVDO blows AT&T's edge out of the water, and is really close to AT&T's 3G. Yea, theoretically 3G is faster than EVDO but real world experience has been anything but. I've ran speed tests on my iPhone with 3G turned on (and strong 3G signal) where I got near dial-up speeds, on way more than one occasion.

FWIW, the Boy Genius Report did a survey of data speeds, with submissions from all across the US.

Average Download Speed

   1. Sprint: 1361kbs
   2. AT&T: 933kbps
   3. T-Mobile: 786kbps
   4. Verizon: 701kbps

Average Upload Speed

   1. Verizon: 322kbps
   2. Sprint: 267kbps
   3. AT&T: 180kbps
   4. T-Mobile: 177kbps

http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2009/08/21/carrier-wars-t-mobile-results-wrap-up/

 

[aristobrat]

Is 'five times the 3G coverage' in terms of acreage of customers it can reach? Or in terms of number of customers? Prospective customers vs. existing Verizon customers?

My guess would be acreage covered, not population.

VZW's website states "Mobile Broadband is available in 264 major metropolitan areas covering more than 280 million people".
http://support.vzw.com/faqs/VZAccess/faq_natlbrdbandaccess.html#item1

I don't see where AT&T specifically states how many people its 3G covers, but last summer, kdarling figured it out as being around 100 million, and it's undoubtedly grown to cover even more people in 2009. VZW can't be 5x more if it's customers...

 

[Knowlege Bomb]

iPhone data plans don't even come close to paying for what AT&T's doing.

$17-18 billion = what AT&T has publicly committed to spending in 2009 for
network improvements

$17 billion represents every penny AT&T would earn in 2009 from iPhone data plans ... if they had 47.2 million iPhone customers. Which they don't. I don't even think they have 47.2 million data customers. That would be more than 50% of their total customers...

I'm not trying to defend AT&T. They're behind in the ballgame and they're pissing people off left and right. I just don't understand comments that AT&T is sitting on its butt, piling up mounds of money from iPhone customers. If anything, signing up for the iPhone seems like it's costing them wayyyyy more than it's worth, regardless of how they try to spin it with the media.

Well look at the bright side. Once the iPhone is released to other carriers you know a large percentage of AT&T's customers are going to drop them. What that says to me is their customer base is going to shrink rapidly and with all the money they've invested in their new towers/network expansion those of us left with them are going to be seeing some amazing speeds.

The glass is always half full.

 

[aristobrat]

What that says to me is their customer base is going to shrink rapidly and with all the money they've invested in their new towers/network expansion those of us left with them are going to be seeing some amazing speeds.

I think that's exactly what's happening to Sprint!

 

[kdarling]

Is 'five times the 3G coverage' in terms of acreage of customers it can reach? Or in terms of number of customers? Prospective customers vs. existing Verizon customers?

Good Q. To answer you in reverse order, it sure looks like land area, which is the only measurement that matters to most users : how many places they can live or go and still count on 3G.

OTOH, I know people in New York who've never left the five boroughs (except perhaps to the Hamptons), and couldn't care less about anyone else

Given the map you posted, one does wonder what Verizon's business model is like if they're providing 3G to towns like Hedgesville, Montana (pop: 2306) in the middle of nowhere.

Apparently one that tries to provide service to as many places as possible.

Verizon had an advantage bringing out 3G, since they chose CDMA as their air interface from the beginning. They didn't have to change very much to upgrade to 3G CDMA.

AT&T, who went with the European oriented (high pop densities, SIMs for many countries) GSM protocols, has had to add WCDMA radios next to their older TDMA radios, in order to support 3G.

PS. Note that while WCDMA has some major differences from EVDO, they share a common origin. The point is, it was already known ten years ago that a form of CDMA would be the best choice for 3G speeds and user capacity. Some carriers chose to support it later on, instead at first, to save money years ago.

 

[schwell]

Given the map you posted, one does wonder what Verizon's business model is like if they're providing 3G to towns like Hedgesville, Montana (pop: 2306) in the middle of nowhere.

Is 'five times the 3G coverage' in terms of acreage of customers it can reach? Or in terms of number of customers? Prospective customers vs. existing Verizon customers?

Given the fast pace of life in Hedgesville, I am sure the sheep ranchers really appreciate the 3G speeds versus 2G.

 

[Consultant]

Verizon:
- You want that feature enabled on your phone? There's a charge for that.
- You want to use international standard GSM sim cards? Most verizon phones won't work with that.

By the way, Verizon EV-DO does not allow simultanious voice and data

 

[EarthDawn]

Verizon:

By the way, Verizon EV-DO does not allow simultanious voice and data

REALLY ?????

I did not know that !!!???

 

[kdarling]

Given the fast pace of life in Hedgesville, I am sure the sheep ranchers really appreciate the 3G speeds versus 2G.

I suspect that ranchers and farmers use their computers far more in their day to day work than a lot of other people. Similar to the way many picked up on flying a plane.

Ranchers and farmers are the reason that Dodge put a center console, capable of holding a laptop, into their RAM trucks... a design feature that other pickup makers have picked up on.

 

[aristobrat]

Verizon had an advantage bringing out 3G, since they chose CDMA as their air interface from the beginning. They didn't have to change very much to upgrade to 3G CDMA.

AT&T, who went with the European oriented (high pop densities, SIMs for many countries) GSM protocols, has had to add WCDMA radios next to their older TDMA radios, in order to support 3G.

How does that translate into "next steps" for the carriers, in terms of migrating to LTE?

Does Verizon's older CDMA equipment have a direct path, or will they have to be adding WCDMA radios next to them, like AT&T with the TDMA/WCDMA?

- You want to use international standard GSM sim cards? There's NO PHONE for that.

Except for their "international edition" phones, but the SIM would only be used when roaming internatationally....

 

[Consultant]

How does that translate into "next steps" for the carriers, in terms of migrating to LTE?

Does Verizon's older CDMA equipment have a direct path, or will they have to be adding WCDMA radios next to them, like AT&T with the TDMA/WCDMA?


Except for their "international edition" phones, but the SIM would only be used when roaming internatationally....

Oops good catch. Totally forgot about that.

Those aren't sold to the regular customers though, and you need an international plan from Verizon.

 

[kdarling]

Verizon:
- You want that feature enabled on your phone? There's a charge for that.

And what would these mythical features be?

If you mean turn-by-turn GPS, or broadcast video, AT&T charges as well.

You want to use international standard GSM sim cards? There's NO PHONE for that.

You must be talking about the AT&T iPhone, which has that feature crippled.

Verizon has a half dozen world smartphones with both CDMA and GSM radios. And you can get the GSM side unlocked by Verizon.

By the way, Verizon EV-DO does not allow simultanious voice and data

Absolutely correct, unless of course you're using WiFi for data. Didn't hurt the iPhone sales at first, though. But if you need it, choose another carrier (at least until LTE hits).

 

[aristobrat]

Oops good catch. Totally forgot about that.

Those aren't sold to the regular customers though, and you need an international plan from Verizon.

VZW's slipping the int'l phones into the regular mix nowadays. For example, the regular Blackberry Tour is international, and comes with a SIM ... that's totally useless in the US, but if you ever do travel and want to pay their international rates, at least they'll allow you the privilege now.

Absolutely correct, unless of course you're using WiFi for data. Didn't hurt the iPhone sales at first, though. But if you need it, choose another carrier (at least until LTE hits).

Wait, Verizon phones with WiFi? JK. Mostly. Still can't believe that don't have a single BB that supports WiFi. That's been pretty much standard on AT&T/T-Mobile for the last year.

 

[ProwlingTiger]

Verizon's 3G is far superior in terms of coverage area in my region. But, AT&T is starting to aggressively expand this year in my region and should rival Verizon's 3G in the midwest by the end of the year. Theoretically. I hope.

 

[TheCheapGeek]

Verizon makes a valid argument, there is more red than blue on the USA, but why do I care I get full 3g with full consistency every day. If you don't get 3g coverage with ATT and do with verizon, and you want 3g you are probably on verizon already.

 

[kdarling]

How does that translate into "next steps" for the carriers, in terms of migrating to LTE?

Does Verizon's older CDMA equipment have a direct path, or will they have to be adding WCDMA radios next to them, like AT&T with the TDMA/WCDMA?

Both the CDMA and GSM carriers will have to add OFDMA radios. None of their older radios will be compatible.

However, Verizon has an advantage moving to LTE because of its extensive fiber network that can be used for backhaul. And, as a first adopter, Verizon has been writing the specs for future LTE equipment (LTE is a very loosely defined system).

 

[Dr Kevorkian94]

Verizon is a bunch of ******s i saw that commercial and i thought that and then i no fn way those maps were accurate.

 

[kdarling]

VZW's slipping the int'l phones into the regular mix nowadays. For example, the regular Blackberry Tour is international, and comes with a SIM ... that's totally useless in the US, but if you ever do travel and want to pay their international rates, at least they'll allow you the privilege now.

As mentioned above, many Verizon users have gotten an unlock code to use foreign SIMs to save money... something that the iPhone under ATT cannot do without jailbreaking and unlocking.

Wait, Verizon phones with WiFi? JK. Mostly.

Last I looked, Verizon had more WiFi equipped smartphones than AT&T.

You guys are funny, but you're also waaaaay out of date.

 

[VenusianSky]

Verizon should add to the commercials...

"You want an iPhone, there's a, uh...umm, nevermind. We don't have anything for that."

Verizon isn't really targeting AT&T's network with their campaign. They are just sore that they lost, and are still losing, customers to AT&T due to the iPhone. Many of these former customers have picked the iPhone over the network.

 

[Michael CM1]

I get an AT&T signal almost everywhere I go. I get a 3G signal almost everywhere I'm at. I don't go to Boise, Idaho, so it doesn't matter to me who has coverage there -- or Albuquerque, or New York City, or Hawaii. That's just a corporate p#@%ing contest with minimal consequence to most of us. When you buy a phone, you're going to look at your area. AT&T has HUGE areas of no service out west. I just don't care.

It all boils down to both Verizon and AT&T are pretty good at coverage in places where people live. Verizon's commercials annoy me only slightly less than Sprint's commercials (WTF is a Now Network?). AT&T's sometimes get hokey, but they're not too bad.

Oh yeah, AT&T offers the iPhone. Verizon didn't -- and in fact turned it down. ****, Verizon.

 

[jofallon]

Verizon is a bunch of ******s i saw that commercial and i thought that and then i no fn way those maps were accurate.

Indeed. Map shows everything as solid coverage when there are holes in everybody's coverage. When I was in Palo Alto CA a couple months ago, Verizon coverage was horrible; and it's not perfect in Illinois.

 

[Consultant]

And what would these mythical features be?

If you mean turn-by-turn GPS, or broadcast video, AT&T charges as well.

You must be talking about the AT&T iPhone, which has that feature crippled.

Verizon has a half dozen world smartphones with both CDMA and GSM radios. And you can get the GSM side unlocked by Verizon.

Absolutely correct, unless of course you're using WiFi for data. Didn't hurt the iPhone sales at first, though. But if you need it, choose another carrier (at least until LTE hits).

Verizon Visual Voice Mail, $3/month

I can use my iPhone with local sim cards when I travel internationally. Yes it's unofficial, but virtually every GSM phone can be unlocked that way.

Verizon CDMA phones cannot.

 

[theBB]

And what would these mythical features be?

How about transferring photos? Verizon disabled both USB and Bluetooth file transfers on my wife's cell phone. They wanted us to pay for a data plan so that we could upload them to their server, so that we could download them to our computer. Same story with ringtones. Without any way to transfer them into the phone, I could not just use any custom ringtone. Fortunately, there are awkward hacks around both of these problems, but it was quite a hassle.

 

[aristobrat]

Both the CDMA and GSM carriers will have to add OFDMA radios. None of their older radios will be compatible.

However, Verizon has an advantage moving to LTE because of its extensive fiber network that can be used for backhaul. And, as a first adopter, Verizon has been writing the specs for future LTE equipment (LTE is a very loosely defined system).

Yeah, AT&T seems to really be struggling with backhaul. I just can't imagine AT&T running around in the last 2 years just putting in WCDMA stuff to immediately turn around and add another radio to every freaking tower. Ugh.

Last I looked, Verizon had more WiFi equipped smartphones than AT&T.

You guys are funny, but you're also waaaaay out of date.

Yeah, I'm admittedly out of date. I run the BES where I work, so I only see the BlackBerry side of things. And again, I'm amazed that there isn't a CDMA BB in the US when the GSM carriers have had them for years.

I am impressed with VZW's inclusion of WiFi in their other smartphones. It's up to 7 now (if I did my tally right, ... I had to manually look at each model, as you can't have it show you just wifi phones). That's a lot more than the last time I looked! AT&T is up to 12 now.

 

[Darth.Titan]

I have learned that there are three topics that - when discussed in mixed company - are almost guaranteed to start an argument.

1. Politics
2. Religion
3. Wireless providers

Everyone has different preferences and experiences. Use what you want, and don't worry about what others use.

P.S. ALL coverage maps are not-so-thinly disguised lies, just like political polls.