Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
At what point should we actually start worrying?

When Apple makes an End of Life announcement well ahead of time, just like they did for Xserve.

Otherwise you are just speculating about a company known for its secrecy.
 
When Apple makes an End of Life announcement well ahead of time, just like they did for Xserve.

Otherwise you are just speculating about a company known for its secrecy.

Which is sort of the point of this site, is it not?

Again, this is not a topic for discussing whether or not the Mac Pro line will be terminated, but by when we can expect an announcement to be made for a new one, or not. Looking at the MacBook, Apple's EoL announcements come rather late, long after we could predict it was coming based on the available facts.

I merely want us to discuss what the available facts are for the Mac Pro, use some cold analysis, and determine when all the pieces will have come together, or not.
 
I am very very pessimistic now, but, the truth is that we are no closure to knowing exactly what Apple will do then we were at the end of last year. There has been no real tangible hints at either EOL'ing or an imminent release other than pundit and forum speculation. Anything is possible, but I personally no longer think we will hear anything, anytime soon for whatever reason. They could however just as easily end the MP as update it at this point. I don't see anything that points to either other than our frustration and justified impatience. No one on the board knows anything beyond you or me and if they do they aren't saying. So, at this point it is just one big guess and venting platform except for those who feel the need to say they are tired of hearing our views to which In say sorry, no one is forcing anyone here to read them, so just move along .....
 
I am very very pessimistic now, but, the truth is that we are no closure to knowing exactly what Apple will do then we were at the end of last year. There has been no real tangible hints at either EOL'ing or an imminent release other than pundit and forum speculation. Anything is possible, but I personally no longer think we will hear anything, anytime soon for whatever reason. They could however just as easily end the MP as update it at this point. I don't see anything that points to either other than our frustration and justified impatience. No one on the board knows anything beyond you or me and if they do they aren't saying. So, at this point it is just one big guess and venting platform except for those who feel the need to say they are tired of hearing our views to which In say sorry, no one is forcing anyone here to read them, so just move along .....

This is exactly the problem. You "feel" this and "think" that, yet have no real evidence to back up either way. The reason for no update in 2 years? No real performance gain with processing power that was available. I can say with certainty there will be an update, and it will be in the next 6 months. Apple is buying it's time right now, and speculation to EOL is BS.

Why is it BS? In the last 2 years, what major jump over available performance was released? Nothing until recently. I would bet Apple is getting a specific chip, or set of chips for a refresh with a plan to go forward with faster processors as each year goes forward.

Saying anything about EOL is funny.
 
I merely want us to discuss what the available facts are for the Mac Pro, use some cold analysis, and determine when all the pieces will have come together, or not.

At WWDC, Apple is likely to announce the launch date for Mountain Lion ( 10.8). That date plus about 2.75 months is where probably can start the doomsday countdown clock.

Right now the folks deeply worried are those who have their underwear in twist far more than leveraging deep insight into the facts.


I'll fill in the rational below.

The major parts needed for a new Mac Pro are:

1. new CPU/RAM board and new motherboard. ( complete line up of E5 1600 and 2600 models )
2. new, complete GPU PCI-e card line-up ( probably at least partially the 28nm, PCI-e v3.0 cards)
3. revised OS. (every new Mac comes with a tweaked OS).

Some minor parts

4. Apple probably would like HDD prices to retreat some more from "flood" increases.
5. The log-jam of new Mac models waiting to be released. ( Apple is unlikely to release a flood all at once).


Some possible major twists

1. Abandonment of Xeon E5's for E3's ( less than 3 PCI-e slots is the "future").



E5 systems from other vendors look to be getting reading to enter the shipping stage (e.g., HP and Dell projecting before end of May and some as early as this upcoming week). So that roadblock should largely disappear by mid-June (e.g., there are still clouds around lower end E5 1600 models like the 1620 not being a bottleneck.). To date this largely been a non-Apple specific problem. Intel and everyone else is also late.


Similarly, Nvidia and AMD seem to have completed their rollouts of PCI-e cards. The "top" of the line-ups weren't material to dates. Whatever card Apple selected as the 'entry' level card would come out last and be the date roadblock. Nvidia just did the "low" end of the 600GT line up (http://www.anandtech.com/show/5845/...ased-geforce-gt-610-gt-620-gt-630-into-retail ). While not 28nm , Kepler, or PCI-e v3.0 it wouldn't be surprising to see Apple put a low cost card in the box by default. Again should be completely uncorked by early June.
Also again this have been a workstation wide delay issue; not a Apple specific one.

Even if Apple is lagging on drivers for bleeding edge cards, there has been such a long rollout out that June is plenty of runway to get off the ground.



For both the of above the none of the other major vendors are significantly out in front of Apple in term of actually "next day" shipping of product. There are either lead times or "order now and get later" dates. When those vendors have gotten past their initial shipping wave bubbles across their whole line up then Apple is an oddball.


If Apple goes to a "papa bear, mama bear , baby bear" line up like the MBP ( 13" 15" 17") and uses the E3 for the "baby bear" model then the slide on CPUs is even further into June, possibly July. That's assuming the E3's have shorter ramp to real, shipping products than the E5's have had.
E3's make sense if believe Mac Pro absolutely has to have Thunderbolt. It is nice but really don't. If Apple drank that kool-aid, they could have hobbled the whole product roll-out waiting on the new E3's.


The OS could be a sticking point if Apple decides to punt on releasing the Mac Pro with 10.7. If they decide to skip then the Mac Pro would need to wait for a post 10.8 release date. For example, E3's stall till July and run into the pre 10.8 blackout window for new Macs. Another example could be some feature (e.g., transparent SSD+HDD caching) that is a 10.8 feature that would be more universally leveraged on a Mac Pro, so it makes more sense to wait to roll-out (as oppose to retro-fit into 10.7).


The fact the other Mac products haven't shipped and there is a relatively short window ( couple of months) to 10.8 release means some products are likely going to get pushed to the other side of the 10.8 date. Conceptually, the Mac Pro should be first out the gate because it is the oldest, but it is also likely the lowest volume product too. It certainly is probably the Mac product that gets the most "I have a 4-6 year old version and I'm still extremely happy with its performance" comments. Since those folks aren't in a hurry to buy, there is no pressure for Apple to push out something they aren't going to buy. That is not as much the case for the other Mac products. While it would be generally better to resolve oldest first, they may decide to wait to get higher priority models out the door (i.e., priority is not purely based on 'age').


So far the information about Ivy Bridge E5 follow ons is that they are a year away also (if the announce-to-really-available progression goes like it did this year). It won't shorten the cycle much if pushed to the other side of 10.8 release by a 1-2 months.

If 10.8 release is August the Mac Pro would be at the 2 year mark ( started shipping in August 2011, Announced mid-July). Some reports have stated HDD prices should be back to "pre-flood" prices by Sept-Oct so that not a minor pricing issue either.

If by first two months after haven't announced anything then it is extremely likely there are no major missing pieces to the puzzle. It should also much more clear by then when the new Ivy Bridge E5's are going to arrive ( Intel has a Developer dog and pony show in Sept-Oct timeframe). If there is a solid and believable date on the next generation and Apple hasn't shipped the current one then that's a really bad sign .

Similarly, post the 10.8 release the major competitors with Mac Pro like workstation boxes will probably jumped into hard press FUD mode with any Mac Pro accounts they've had trouble cracking before. The forums here should be well past "melt down" mode by that point.


If just a minor 10.7.x tweak, purely E5's , Thunderbolt isn't the top priority, and roughly the same power range on older PCI-e cards then it should be with the next couple of weeks. The core issue is what design choices did Apple choose.
 
Why is it BS? In the last 2 years, what major jump over available performance was released? Nothing until recently. I would bet Apple is getting a specific chip, or set of chips for a refresh with a plan to go forward with faster processors as each year goes forward.

Saying anything about EOL is funny.

EOL is quite orthogonal to performance increases. EOL will likely come because not enough people are buying it. It is number of buyers. Not number of cores or some benchmark score.

Yes, there will be a limited number of folks who will start/stop buying because of the performance bump (or lack there of) so the numbers are likely trending down over the last 2 years. However, there is no evidence to discount EOL either. For one, the performance of the other Mac models has not been stagnant.

EOL can come as soon as Apple thinks they can put the same amount of investment into another new Mac model and make a substantially higher return on investment.

The 2 year gap for a Xeon update doesn't say anything significant one way or the other about EOL.
 
This is exactly the problem. You "feel" this and "think" that, yet have no real evidence to back up either way. The reason for no update in 2 years? No real performance gain with processing power that was available. I can say with certainty there will be an update, and it will be in the next 6 months. Apple is buying it's time right now, and speculation to EOL is BS.

Why is it BS? In the last 2 years, what major jump over available performance was released? Nothing until recently. I would bet Apple is getting a specific chip, or set of chips for a refresh with a plan to go forward with faster processors as each year goes forward.

Saying anything about EOL is funny.

This isn't REALLY true. We have had new video cards, LGA 2011 based boards and CPU's with awesome performance for a decent price, and while I KNOW it's not Xeon, this whole Xeon or nothing strategy is a little crazy I think. They could have increased the mount of ram we get, lowered prices, done all sorts of things to indicate the line is still alive and more importantly, seen as being relevant to Apple. Instead, the Mac Pro page has been literally untouched for 2 years. They haven't talked about it whatsoever. We get silent updates for all OSX products, but we get multiple shows a year on iOS consumer products.

I think it's pretty clear Apple truly DOES NOT care about productivity or OSX. OSX is a means to an end. That end is maintaining their legacy productivity platform, and more importantly ensuring there is a platform to build iOS apps. That's why the Mac Pro simply doesn't matter. The iMac and laptops are fine for looking at photos, writing documents, and programming little iOS apps. That's all they care about. Look at their profit breakdown. Apple is just another corporation that cares about making as much money as possible. All of the "we believe in the creative person!" talk was obviously just a marketing spiel to try and hit a target market. I mean, isn't that obvious at this point?

All of the "heavy" computing tasks pretty much work better on Windows these days anyway, so maybe we should just move on...

----------

EOL is quite orthogonal to performance increases. EOL will likely come because not enough people are buying it. It is number of buyers. Not number of cores or some benchmark score.

Yes, there will be a limited number of folks who will start/stop buying because of the performance bump (or lack there of) so the numbers are likely trending down over the last 2 years. However, there is no evidence to discount EOL either. For one, the performance of the other Mac models has not been stagnant.

EOL can come as soon as Apple thinks they can put the same amount of investment into another new Mac model and make a substantially higher return on investment.

The 2 year gap for a Xeon update doesn't say anything significant one way or the other about EOL.

My only problem with the whole sales thing (which I agree is true, you are right here), is that I think Apple is just creating a self fulfilling prophecy.

"Oh, no one buys our desktops anymore." But...isn't this because your desktop is so horribly valued and behind the times that only those who truly NEED the current version buy it? There are 400 million PCs sold a year or so, and I believe the market is still growing. And they claim there is no demand for PCs anymore?

I fully believe the Mac Pro would sell quite a bit more if they kept it completely current, and offered a terrific machine for the money. I know I would have bought one. Instead I am looking at building a PC and ditching all of my Apple desktops for the first time in like a decade. Apple is doing a truly terrible terrible job.
 
Less pro. More pro. Really? Windows is fine but it is still Windows with lovely goodies like to export something you need to choose the import menu and 12 window deep system options. That has not changed. I see no difference really between Vista and 7. I had no issues with either. Why is it hive minded that 7 is so much better? They all work. They are all still Windows.

Windows Vista was a pile of garbage when it was first released. It was REALLY bad. MS patched and fixed it. It's as good as Windows 7 now, but many people still have the memory of the original Vista or have read about it.
 
Windows Vista was a pile of garbage when it was first released. It was REALLY bad. MS patched and fixed it. It's as good as Windows 7 now, but many people still have the memory of the original Vista or have read about it.

Can't remember if my 1st Vista experience was SP1 or GM. It could have been after SP1 so I remember better things. Whenever more than 6 or 7 games were released in DX10 was when I moved from XP.
 
deconstruct60, excellent analysis. That should be the first stop for the endless threads on this topic.

Xeon or nothing may indeed be a crazy strategy, but sadly, that seems to be where they are. I want to say that  has this "crazy like a fox" thing going on with their pro strategy and I just can't see the bigger picture, but it's hard to believe in it.

That said, I can't see the bigger picture and it's probably still not the way to go, but I'm not exactly a font of business knowledge on high-end computers.
 
This isn't REALLY true. We have had new video cards, LGA 2011 based boards and CPU's with awesome performance for a decent price, and while I KNOW it's not Xeon, this whole Xeon or nothing strategy is a little crazy I think. They could have increased the mount of ram we get, lowered prices, done all sorts of things to indicate the line is still alive and more importantly, seen as being relevant to Apple. Instead, the Mac Pro page has been literally untouched for 2 years. They haven't talked about it whatsoever. We get silent updates for all OSX products, but we get multiple shows a year on iOS consumer products.

I think it's pretty clear Apple truly DOES NOT care about productivity or OSX. OSX is a means to an end. That end is maintaining their legacy productivity platform, and more importantly ensuring there is a platform to build iOS apps. That's why the Mac Pro simply doesn't matter. The iMac and laptops are fine for looking at photos, writing documents, and programming little iOS apps. That's all they care about. Look at their profit breakdown. Apple is just another corporation that cares about making as much money as possible. All of the "we believe in the creative person!" talk was obviously just a marketing spiel to try and hit a target market. I mean, isn't that obvious at this point?

All of the "heavy" computing tasks pretty much work better on Windows these days anyway, so maybe we should just move on...

I completely disagree with you. Apple has one thing going for them IMHO. Consistency. Apple has always stuck to their guns regarding how the company was run. Was that Jobs, or was it apple? I guess we will soon find out.

As a remark regarding the video card this, and processor that. You said it yourself. If Apple has discovered that they make better machines using specific hardware, and no relevant replacement has come to market, then it might be the waiting game at this point. Apple cannot afford the bad press and the many people that use these workstations walking away. There are too many short fuses in the world, as seen in the "chicken little" threads here. Too many people saying "back to windows" with no concrete evidence either way.

I believe the wait will be worth it, but to the contrary, if nothing EOL is on the horizon, I foresee two things happening.

1: Mass exodus of apple customers who depend on a Mac pro among other products
2: Lots of other products dropping (iPhone/iPad/Pro apps) sales.

You cannot create a segment of the market, and then drop it because you feel like it anymore. Only Steve Jobs could do that. He had the ability to take something away, but replace it with something else, and tell you why you need the new thing. Add to that... He was right. He did it with the G5. So many people were pi$$ed about the PowerPC processor BS, and now the machines are even better than anyone could have imagined.

Apple is losing the battle to Android in the mobile market. They are slowly gaining market share, but still far behind anything running windows. While they are a nice stock to own, they are doing very little to change the game at this point. They are always 2 mistakes away from creating an EOL strategy for the entire company, but seem to keep themselves above water at this point.

However, alienate a large portion of your customer base (Logic/FCSX), and fail to replace it with some options, and you will see the fall of apple from anything even remotely serious in the industry.

All things aside, they cannot live on iOS alone, and once that is all they have left, they will lose to rest of the world.
 
I completely disagree with you. Apple has one thing going for them IMHO. Consistency. Apple has always stuck to their guns regarding how the company was run. Was that Jobs, or was it apple? I guess we will soon find out.

As a remark regarding the video card this, and processor that. You said it yourself. If Apple has discovered that they make better machines using specific hardware, and no relevant replacement has come to market, then it might be the waiting game at this point. Apple cannot afford the bad press and the many people that use these workstations walking away. There are too many short fuses in the world, as seen in the "chicken little" threads here. Too many people saying "back to windows" with no concrete evidence either way.

I believe the wait will be worth it, but to the contrary, if nothing EOL is on the horizon, I foresee two things happening.

1: Mass exodus of apple customers who depend on a Mac pro among other products
2: Lots of other products dropping (iPhone/iPad/Pro apps) sales.

You cannot create a segment of the market, and then drop it because you feel like it anymore. Only Steve Jobs could do that. He had the ability to take something away, but replace it with something else, and tell you why you need the new thing. Add to that... He was right. He did it with the G5. So many people were pi$$ed about the PowerPC processor BS, and now the machines are even better than anyone could have imagined.

Apple is losing the battle to Android in the mobile market. They are slowly gaining market share, but still far behind anything running windows. While they are a nice stock to own, they are doing very little to change the game at this point. They are always 2 mistakes away from creating an EOL strategy for the entire company, but seem to keep themselves above water at this point.

However, alienate a large portion of your customer base (Logic/FCSX), and fail to replace it with some options, and you will see the fall of apple from anything even remotely serious in the industry.

All things aside, they cannot live on iOS alone, and once that is all they have left, they will lose to rest of the world.

You completely disagree and think Apple is consistent? Ok...can you be more specific? Apple used to talk about being the computer for creative professionals. They now completely ignore that segment, and exclusively chase consumer dollars. Why did they buy up so much pro software, just to kill it? What happened to Shake? Why did they turn FCP into a toy that caused the video industry to start abandoning it in droves? Why is Logic still so buggy?

I am not sure where our disagreement really lies though. I completely agree with your assessment of what will happen if Apple abandons the pro market. I have said similar things for years. I just don't think they see it that way man. They have iOS profit goggles on. Unless they revitalize their desktop machines, I say they are heading for a big fall long term, reason being they can't compete against the entire world. Everyone is working on Windows and Android products. I fail to see how one company can beat everyone, everywhere and lock people in to ONLY their ecosystem.

The problem with the "no concrete evidence", is that we partially do have some evidence. The complete dumbing down of FCPX, and the ignoring of the higher end market in general. When was the last Mac Pro release that wasn't a disappointment? 2008? Four years ago, and only one year after the iPhone came out?

It is clear, to me at least, that when Apple hit something big, that's where they went. That's fine, but their treating their computer division as second class just shows that they never really "believed" in it to begin with. It was just standard business, trying to make as much money as possible. The problem is Apple really drives their product with aspirational marketing, and people buy into it.

That's what really gets me. Just that Apple is another business doing whatever it can to grab as many dollars as possible. All that we believe in the free thinker, blah blah...it was all just a lie. If it wasn't they would be developing their creative tools with as much fervor now as they did then. It would be a symbiotic relationship with iOS, with neither of them appearing to be more or less valuable. As soon as iOS took off, OSX was put to the side, and is internally seen as second rate (several stories on this). I don't think it's Chicken Little, I think it's just the obvious self implosion of what Apple once was, and out of it rises what Apple now is. A gadget company.

"Tell me again how this helps me sell more phones?" - Tim Cook, when being told about new services Apple could provide
 
. I don't think it's Chicken Little, I think it's just the obvious self implosion of what Apple once was, and out of it rises what Apple now is. A gadget company.

"Tell me again how this helps me sell more phones?" - Tim Cook, when being told about new services Apple could provide

Apple has a bigger market cap then Microsoft yet they still have only a small fraction of the overall PC market. How did Apple resurrect itself from a niche boxmaker to a media technology giant. iTunes/iPod/iPhone/iPad.

They may be a gadget company but they are a very good one and obviously there focus is where the see the most potential growth and profit

I will say they have to be careful not to become complacent or too hubristic. I don't really understand how the secrecy helps them sell devices or endear them to their customers but they are doing something right with a huge loyal fanatic following.

At the end of the day and imho I think they are missing a great opportunity to have OSX grab significant market share from Windows. I recently became an OSX convert because I wanted the best available laptop. There was nothing in the Windows world that came near the overall performance, design, finish, weight of the MBP. OSX was a nice surprise elegant intuitive a great OS.
But my workhorse desktop is still a Windows Box and if I needed a desktop to run OSX I'd probably just build my own.

The focus on iDevices will likely continue and imo the unfortunate merging of OSX and IOS will also continue. I may be in the minority here but I still think Snow Leopard is the best version of OSX.

Hopefully Apple will realize there are large markets for both small mobile devices and more traditional computers and want to compete effectively on both fronts. It remains to be seen what happens and all the worrying in the world I'm afraid ain't going to help.
 
Last edited:
There are too many short fuses in the world, as seen in the "chicken little" threads here. Too many people saying "back to windows" with no concrete evidence either way.

...

All things aside, they cannot live on iOS alone, and once that is all they have left, they will lose to rest of the world.

I don't know, but to me it seems like the latter half of your post is another "chicken little" post.

Where's your evidence that Apple will drop OS X? I'm calling they won't. I think they know that not all computing needs to be mobile - have a read of the Q&A about "convergence" in the Q2 2012 results announcement.
 
I don't know, but to me it seems like the latter half of your post is another "chicken little" post.

Where's your evidence that Apple will drop OS X? I'm calling they won't. I think they know that not all computing needs to be mobile - have a read of the Q&A about "convergence" in the Q2 2012 results announcement.

No, stating the company cannot survive on iOS alone is not "chicken little"...

Making 4000 posts about the death of the mac pro, along with the whining and the "sky is falling" mentality is. In any other forum in the world, there would be one thread, and moderators locking EVERYTHING that deviated from it... Not here.

Everyone has the ability to continuously attempt to predict the fate, of something that they know nothing about.

As for the "evidence" that they will drop OSX, I never said that. What I said was that IF they drop it, and focus on iOS, they will fail... Hard. That is all. If they eliminate a large segment of the owners, and favor the mobile BS, then they will lose out. It is all a big if.

----------

You completely disagree and think Apple is consistent? Ok...can you be more specific?

Sorry it was vague, but here goes.

Apple has a level of consistency with providing only super stable hardware. They have since the move to intel. While their speeds might be slower based on numbers, they have always had machines that get it done, and done well.

They have not ever really been about gaming, even if the computers could do it. They have been about making the most stable platform while still being fast.

The reason for the lack of overall presence in the market has to do with 2 factors. Price, and availability. If Apple could look past the Johnny Ive designs and super expensive parts, they would sell more, but also not be as reliable.

Steve Jobs had a knack for pushing for perfection. Mac guys have always been a little different, in that we sacrifice all out speed and geek numbers for a more well rounded package.

I don't agree with FCSX being labeled (dumbed down). It is a very powerful piece of software, which is a little more intuitive than FCS7 was. The reason most people disliked it in the beginning was the interface, and the need to relearn work arounds. My issue with the pros "jumping ship" is the same reason I think discussions like this are silly. They had a perfectly stable, running platform, and "tried" the new thing. They didn't like it, and instead of sticking with the software they originally liked, they left for Windows. Now though, FCSX is great. 10.0.4 is wonderful, and much better than 10.0.

All things considered, Apple has always provided a super solid, overly tested piece of hardware. Rushing to the market with the latest processor has never happened. The refresh is coming, but you have to be patient.
 
It wouldn't have made much sense to refresh the line until the new Sandy Bridge E5 Xeon chips came out, which was just a couple months ago. Dell and HP pro workstations are still using the last-generation chips too.

Now, just imagine a dual-octocore Mac Pro. 16 cores, 32 threads.... :eek:
 
This is exactly the problem. You "feel" this and "think" that, yet have no real evidence to back up either way. The reason for no update in 2 years? No real performance gain with processing power that was available. I can say with certainty there will be an update, and it will be in the next 6 months. Apple is buying it's time right now, and speculation to EOL is BS.

Why is it BS? In the last 2 years, what major jump over available performance was released? Nothing until recently. I would bet Apple is getting a specific chip, or set of chips for a refresh with a plan to go forward with faster processors as each year goes forward.

Saying anything about EOL is funny.

EOL was started in the Apple news sites by some analyst I believe. Not that far fetched really. Since you can say with "certainty", then you must be in the know and we all should be grateful that you broke nda to tell us. :rolleyes: Your taking this way to seriously. It's just a rumors chat forum.
 
The problem with the "no concrete evidence", is that we partially do have some evidence. The complete dumbing down of FCPX, and the ignoring of the higher end market in general. When was the last Mac Pro release that wasn't a disappointment? 2008? Four years ago, and only one year after the iPhone came out?

Do you really believe that Apple redesigned FCP to use more cores/threads and now they're going to not offer computers with lots of cores? Seems like sound business logic.

It seems to me that the majority of "pro" FCPX users are quite happy with the latest updates and are getting on with their work. Yet, there is still a number of people that feel like Apple have offended them by making their software different and simpler to use.

I really don't understand this logic and the conclusions that people are drawn to make.

FCPX is simpler, therefore it is dumbed down and therefore Apple does not care about the pro users.

What? I think it's incredibly flawed logic and incorrect conclusions are drawn. Ever since the first computer was made it has been dumbed down. I could argue that an operating system with a GUI was a huge dumbing down. There is something satisfying about a blinking cursor waiting for your input and good luck to you if you don't know the input commands. Frankly, the biggest dumbing down was moving away from writing all the code in assembler.

Should I keep going on or is it becoming clear how complaining about something being simpler to use is ridiculous?

Steve Jobs' entire mentality and vision was around elegant simplicity. It's in everything that he strived for. To argue that because Apple is making something simpler is proof of something is silly. It's always been their goals to make computing simpler. When Apple was started people used to build their own computers and modify them. This was not what Jobs wanted.

I don't hear developers complaining about the inclusion of automatic reference counting, which has made developing in objective C a whole of a lot easier. You could even argue that it's been "dumbed down".

Why is it a bad thing if something is easier or simpler? Do people feel threatened? The whole point is to let your creativity "flow" and not to let technology get in the way. That was always another part of Jobs' philosophy.
 
EOL was started in the Apple news sites by some analyst I believe. Not that far fetched really. Since you can say with "certainty", then you must be in the know and we all should be grateful that you broke nda to tell us. :rolleyes: Your taking this way to seriously. It's just a rumors chat forum.

I can say with certainty that a new Mac Pro will come out, only because this is the first significant performance jump in the last 3 years. You just have to wait for supply and Foxconn to get everything assembled.

As for the seriously part, I think it is funny, that a person who is not worried in the slightest bit about the future, is being told he is taking this too seriously. Sure, it is a rumor site, but considering we have no rumors to talk about, why are their 4000 threads about EOL, and what to move to? As for the analyst, if one person is capable of saying something and many people go along with it, I got some beach front property for sale, and a bridge in NYC. :rolleyes:
 
When was the last Mac Pro release that wasn't a disappointment? 2008? Four years ago, and only one year after the iPhone came out?

I'm guessing the reason why you are focusing on 2008 Mac Pro is because of the best price to performance ratio. Workstations are not designed with price in mind. If you are looking for the best bang for your buck look into the consumer PC side or build it yourself.

I certainly would not call 2009 Mac Pro's a disappointment as Nehalem introduced Hyper-threading and turbo mode among other enhancements.
 
No, stating the company cannot survive on iOS alone is not "chicken little"...

....

As for the "evidence" that they will drop OSX, I never said that. What I said was that IF they drop it, and focus on iOS, they will fail... Hard. That is all. If they eliminate a large segment of the owners, and favor the mobile BS, then they will lose out. It is all a big if.

It is still largely chicken little. Apple's primary criteria for dropping a product is that customers aren't buying the product in substantive numbers. If over time, 10's of millions of people stop buying OS X then dropping the product is highly unlikely to do any significant damage to Apple at that time period. It would have already shrunk to a non significant amount of their overall revenue. So dropping it would not product any significant damage to their balance sheet.

The huge unsubstantiated assumption here is that Apple is going to focus exclusively on iOS. Mac sales are growing. As long as they are growing at a healthy rate Apple is going to invest a substantive amount of resources into OS X and Macs. As long as those are smart, productive investments Mac growth will continue.

To try to get this back aligned with the thread's initial posts request for facts here are a couple.

1. In the Feb briefings on Mountain Lion Apple did with blogger/journalists they stated they wanted to move OS X to a yearly update schedule. The iOS has been roughly following a yearly update schedule. This puts OS X and iOS at parity of focus. Not a mismatch.

2. Over a decade ago Jobs stated something to the effect of ".. to let go of this notion that for Apple to win, Microsoft has to lose ". Essentially, it is perfectly sustainable for OS X to hold 4-10% of the overall PC market and succeed. That is even more true if iOS replaces "Microsoft" and assign "OS X" to Apple. So the corollary is :

" .. to let go of this notion that for OS X to win , iOS has to lose"

and vice versa.

iTunes , elements of iCloud , and iOS devices will continue to integrate with Windows along with OS X. Each one of these has their own role to play. OS X and Windows overlap with each other as much as iOS and OS X do. If OS X severely collapses then Windows is just as likely to subsume its role as iOS would.


Both the iOS and OS X product lines are generating more than enough money to fund their own development. There are no cross product line "subsidies" necessary as there is free cash flow coming out of both.
Arm waving about iOS products somehow severely inhibiting the Mac development is baseless. Many folks keeping repeating it hoping to perpetrate the notion, but there are no hard facts backing that up.
(Apple may avoid launching a new Mac the same week as the iPhone but that is a relatively minor "launch serialization" issue. . )

The other huge assumption here is that Apple can't possibly find another product line to grow and replace Mac revenues over time. With Apple's track record over last 14 years, that is also rather dubious.

I don't think Apple wants to leave the Mac behind. But if customers "vote" otherwise then they will follow the customers.


Apple has a level of consistency with providing only super stable hardware. They have since the move to intel. While their speeds might be slower based on numbers, they have always had machines that get it done, and done well.

First, Apple is primarily about providing systems ( hardware + software); not just hardware.


All things considered, Apple has always provided a super solid, overly tested piece of hardware. Rushing to the market with the latest processor has never happened. The refresh is coming, but you have to be patient.

Again it is about the overall system and not individual specific components. That's is where there is a large disconnect between the folks who want "erector sets"/"box with slots" and Apple's approach. The former typically are focused on getting some components as soon as possible so they can build/construct a finished system. It is about components and specs chasing.

----------

t in the beginning was the interface, and the need to relearn work arounds. My issue with the pros "jumping ship" is the same reason I think discussions like this are silly. They had a perfectly stable, running platform, and "tried" the new thing. They didn't like it, and instead of sticking with the software they originally liked, they left for Windows.

This wasn't really the case.

A very large and vocal fraction of the folks "jumping ship" from FCPX were originally Avid users. Many transitioned over to FCP over time for a variety of reasons. However, many of those never let go of wanting to replicate the entire feature list of Avid's solution in FCP.

FCPX was a good opportunity for many to revert just as they wanted to all along.

You'll see a very similar effect when a fraction of the folks who moved to Macs from Windows eventually flip back. For example the extensive and overlapping diversity of hardware models. The freedom to grab their trusty screwdriver and build their own ........
 
I would say start worrying, Sandy Bridge Xeons have been out for a few months now. Apple always used to get the Xeons pretty much straight away, surely they would of released a new line up by now. If you look at the intel road map, what are they waiting for. I say this because I've just moved to PC and will be upset if they release a new Mac Pro line up, so need to justify moving to the darkside.
 
I can say with certainty that a new Mac Pro will come out, only because this is the first significant performance jump in the last 3 years. :

The cancellation of the XServe happened in a very similar context. The gap may not have been as long but really isn't a relevant point to terminating the product line.

There is a high likelihood that they will take at least "one more stab" at seeing if the Mac Pro sells in substantive numbers. But only Apple has the hard numbers on what their 'cut off' levels are and if demand, even adjusted for the gap length, is sufficient. However, there is no certainty that evolves out of the uncertainty that the demand bounce from a new update will be sufficient.


It hasn't been 3 years either. Adding two more cores in the dual set up was significant. It is only the entry level, single package model that has lagged behind. That was Intel's doing ( incomplete 3600 line up). If Apple believes that Intel is going to "flake out" going forward from time to time moving the E5 1600 line forward, that is actually a motivation to exit now.
 
I would say start worrying, Sandy Bridge Xeons have been out for a few months now. Apple always used to get the Xeons pretty much straight away, surely they would of released a new line up by now. If you look at the intel road map, what are they waiting for. I say this because I've just moved to PC and will be upset if they release a new Mac Pro line up, so need to justify moving to the darkside.

They haven't been out for a few months now. You still cannot buy a dell workstation with Sandy Bridge xeons. What clue does that give you?
 
The cancellation of the XServe happened in a very similar context. The gap may not have been as long but really isn't a relevant point to terminating the product line.

99.9% of people looking for a data or render server are not looking to apple. That is just the truth. This is the reason the Xserve was cancelled.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.