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OK, so the chip inside apparently can output 1080. The article was posted over 2 years ago. Hacks galore since then, yet no one has hacked a 1080 playback option. Maybe the chip can do it but the rest of the system can't?

If we assume that Apple at least follows users comments about their products (which sometimes it appears that they might), they've seen the whining about no 1080p (and why not make the USB port into an external storage option) for the last few years. They've got 1080 HD out since iMovie HD (2006?) and HD camcorders have been out for longer than that (that's what iMovie HD was supposed to work with). So, why not flip that switch and sell a lot more :apple:TVs?

And the hackers have made the USB port work, so why hasn't anyone (beyond Apple) tackled the 1080 out challenge at all?

I'm still in the camp that believes that the current :apple:TV hardware platform cannot output 1080 HD video, and that it will take new hardware- not just a software update with the existing :apple:TV- to give us that capability.

But, that said, I WOULD LOVE TO BE WRONG ABOUT THIS. If a version 3.0 can give us good 1080 playback, it would be a terrific "wow" surprise.

edit: since posting, I've seen Dynaflash's comment just before this one. So, again I'll welcome the massive surprise if Apple will just make it happen via a software update. It seems a company so focused on using iTunes almost entirely to move hardware wouldn't let such a small thing as software stand in the way of knocking one of the biggest buyer obstacles (no 1080 capability) out of the way.
 
Remember originally the atv could not play 720P nor could it play the DD AC3 soundtrack. What changed ? Software (not unlike the original 5g ipod could only do a variation of 320 x 240 until a firmware update magically brought 640 x 480).

I am not suggesting that the atv could handle a 1 for 1 blu ray rip. But strictly speaking the hardware can decode 1080p. How well of course is up for debate and only time would tell *if* they ever try it.
 
Hacks galore since then, yet no one has hacked a 1080 playback option. Maybe the chip can do it but the rest of the system can't?
Or its because the API to access the gpu is proprietary. Hackers have to reverse engineer it. Apple doesn't since they are a customer and have access to the api. The xbmc devs have acknowledged as much. So the irony is while they can allow 1080P playback (by bypassing iTunes) they have less access to the atv's hardware that can make it realistic than apple does.
 
I wonder if 1080p playback is prohibited by studios and has nothing to do with Apple?

Are other legitimate online content provides (netflix, etc.) stuck at 720p as well? Perhaps this will take a lot longer to change than we would all like?
 
Remember originally the atv could not play 720P nor could it play the DD AC3 soundtrack. What changed ? Software (not unlike the original 5g ipod could only do a variation of 320 x 240 until a firmware update magically brought 640 x 480).

I am not suggesting that the atv could handle a 1 for 1 blu ray rip. But strictly speaking the hardware can decode 1080p. How well of course is up for debate and only time would tell *if* they ever try it.

The Apple TV was always able to play 1280x720p at up to 25fps. Apple just didn't have any content available then. You are right about the surround sound and the iPod restrictions though, but I don't expect 1080p coming to the current models.

Really hoping for a new one in September, it's about time.
 
Are you kidding me? Xbox-360 is a terrible product. I had 3 of them at one point, acting as Media Center extenders.. Had to go through 4 replacements due to the infamous RROD (red ring of death) failure.

Codec support was non-existent outside of MS media, they just recently added half-baked support for H.264. The box is big, noisy and consumes a lot of power. It's very poor suited for a living room media purposes in my opinion.

Simply look at the latest stats of console usage...360 is killing everything else out there. It is big, it is noisy and it does consume a lot or power...each are MINOR issues compared to USAGE and CONTENT. You can always isolate/hide the box.

I haven't had a RRoD yet. But yes, quality is not the 360's strong suit. The 360 Xbox LIVE experience is by far the BEST thing in the living room right now.
 
Regarding the 1080p issue, I'm not sure the ATV can do it. It probably could do 1080p MPEG2, but consider that the crofton CPU hasn't been cutting edge since 2004 (I got a Pentium M 1.7 GHz in 2005 and it was nowhere near cutting edge then) and the Geforce 7 series was from 2005. Remember when 1080p material started being available, you needed a dual core to get decent playback on a PC, so I think an underpowered 1 GHz CPU and bottom end Geforce 7 card is doing well to get 720p. I mea,n why wouldn't Apple enable 720p30 if they could? It makes no sense to limit the ATV to "certain kinds" of 720p.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia_PureVideo#The_First_Generation_PureVideo_HD

2nd generation PureVideo decoding didn't come in until the Geforce 8 series.
 
I think you are exactly right, which is why they may prohibit electronic distribution of 1080p content in an attempt to promote Blu-ray sales and limit piracy.

OK, but then why pick on just the :apple:TV. Things like the much cheaper Western Digital device and similar are all launching with 1080p...
http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=572
It seems like the pirates would buy one of these cheaper boxes that is equipped to play their blu-ray rips. Why single out Apple?
 
Why not an app store for OS X then? The iTunes Store could have everything from Photoshop to Pet Shop Boys. It would be a good way to cover the installation, backup and update process from the user. Not sure how the Windows version of iTunes would fit in this scenario. Depends on the value of PC users to Apple.

I think one of the big challenges is the input device - ATV really has none. Another is horsepower - certainly not enough to run Photoshop. I thunk a widget-based application set to make it an information appliance would be ok.

Remember the whole thing is based on Tiger...
 
OK, but then why pick on just the :apple:TV. Things like the much cheaper Western Digital device and similar are all launching with 1080p...
http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=572
It seems like the pirates would buy one of these cheaper boxes that is equipped to play their blu-ray rips. Why single out Apple?

All the devices that play 1080p content, don't actually deliver any content... you have to supply your own. In other words, their vendors have no agreements with the studios to violate. Apple and Netflix are two I can think of that deliver content... does Netflix offer 1080p movies? Does anyone? I don't think so.
 
All the devices that play 1080p content, don't actually deliver any content... you have to supply your own. In other words, their vendors have no agreements with the studios to violate. Apple and Netflix are two I can think of that deliver content... does Netflix offer 1080p movies? Does anyone? I don't think so.

Microsoft will be delivering 1080p content to the Xbox 360. With any luck that will motivate Apple to innovate on the Apple TV more.
http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/01/xbox-live-gets-live-tv-streaming-netflix-browsing/
 
OK, but then why pick on just the :apple:TV. Things like the much cheaper Western Digital device and similar are all launching with 1080p...
http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=572
It seems like the pirates would buy one of these cheaper boxes that is equipped to play their blu-ray rips. Why single out Apple?

The reason is they're scared ******** of Apple. Just look at the music business, the record labels have fought Apple tooth & nail the whole way instead of embracing new realities like iTunes, P2P filesharing etc Now Apple distributes 50% of all music. Thats huge and a great benefit to the labels as they no longer need to manufacture a physical product...but they don't see it that way; they've lost *control* and that is what this is about.

Music labels aren't suing downloaders anymore but the movie studios are... I know of people who were dragged through court to a huge expense due to getting caught d/Ling torrents. The studios want to be in the Blu-Ray business with iTunes being the cherry on top, not the other way around.

My guess is the studios are behind the fact that 1080p isn't already the norm on iTunes or Apple TV. I highly doubt Apple is behind it. What Apple is behind however is the fact you'll never see an optical drive in the aTV. They're in the iTunes business and *thats* where they want you to get your content from.
 
MowingDev

Music labels aren't suing downloaders anymore but the movie studios are... I know of people who were dragged through court to a huge expense due to getting caught d/Ling torrents. The studios want to be in the Blu-Ray business with iTunes being the cherry on top, not the other way around.

My guess is the studios are behind the fact that 1080p isn't already the norm on iTunes or Apple TV. I highly doubt Apple is behind it. What Apple is behind however is the fact you'll never see an optical drive in the aTV. They're in the iTunes business and *thats* where they want you to get your content from.

interesting theory on the studios,

The main reason why you do not see much 1080p being served is bandwidth, cable does not do 1080p, due to the face it eats so much bandwidth, I don't see this changing for a few more years, I think for HD content we are stuck mainly with 720p/1080i, until bandwidth can deliver the quality of a blueray.

the only way I can see 1080p coming though an :apple:TV is if apple has some cloud computing system to deliver the content, or a VUDU client setup (basically cloud computing, apple currently using a Akamai and Limelight technology on the back end).

just my thoughts.

I found this interesting read comparing Netflix, VUDU and Apple TV boxes, it is from last year

http://www.popsci.com/gear-gadgets/article/2008-06/battle-internet-video-boxes-netflix-vs-apple-tv-vs-vudu
 
While I really hope they update the box to support 1080p playback (ideally H.264 in a MKV container - wishful thinking, I know)... this will likely only happen if the decision makers at Apple wish they had 1080p playback and they think 1080p movies can be stored and delivered over the internet without breaking the bank on their hosting services and without enough delays to create a negative viewing experience. To otherwise support 1080p is basically a move in support of piracy although I guess you could argue that it is to support people ripping their blu-ray discs for digital playback.

As for Blu-ray... I don't think Blu-ray will ever find it's way into an AppleTV. Apple is all about delivering content digitally over the wire. In addition, if they offer 1080p playback, there is really no need for Blu-ray support.

/facepalm

OK, I'll at least give you a break for not suggesting that Blu-ray is a dead technology or there's no need for it on a Mac. But I contend that what's holding ATV back is the lack of an optical drive. People are on here mentioning the great streaming abilities of the PS3 and Xbox 360, both of which also play movies (yes, I know the 360 only does HD DVD). My BD player streams Netflix. I would love to get an ATV when I move so I can move my computer to another room, but I really can't justify that purchase with such an outdated and now-overpriced unit.

I wouldn't personally bite for this now, but had the ATV been coupled with a BD player and had some sort of app store where you could add stuff like Hulu and Netflix, I would have jumped all over it. People don't want many boxes that only do one thing. Hell, that's what notebook computers are all about. It's a computer that I can carry around, play movies and music on, yadda yadda yadda. I would love to have one device that receives Dish Network TV, plays BDs and streams almost anything (music, other iTunes media, Netflix, Hulu, other TV streams). Hell, the iPhone keeps moving toward this, yet the ATV sits there without any major change in forever. It's got such possibility yet it's soooo ignored. At the very least, a price drop would indicate that Apple knows we know that HDD prices actually drop over an 18-month period.
 
All I need in my Apple TV ecosystem is the ability to stream from a file system, IE I want a piece of software that can look at wither the itunes database, the itunes file structure, or a combination of the two and stream video and audio to multiple apple tv's without having to have iTunes running.
 
interesting theory on the studios,
The main reason why you do not see much 1080p being served is bandwidth, cable does not do 1080p, due to the face it eats so much bandwidth, I don't see this changing for a few more years, I think for HD content we are stuck mainly with 720p/1080i, until bandwidth can deliver the quality of a blueray.

This is one of the more popular reasons why we don't have an :apple:TV capable of 1080p playback. The core of the reason is generally true. Yes, American internet infrastructure is hobbled by relatively slow broadband speeds. Some say this is a function of America being such a big place compared to- say- Japan or Korea while I tend to lay the blame on the cable & phone companies owning the pipes, and not wanting to upgrade them to outpace the world for fear of disrupting their very lucrative cell phone and cable subscription business models.

After all, if the pipes were not "constrained", we could all probably dump our cable & cell phone subscriptions, getting all of our television entertainment directly from the companies that make the shows (cutting out the cable middleman) and all of our phone communications could quickly switch to wireless wiMax VOIP (cutting out a lot of the phone company's thievery).

But regardless of that, a high percentage of computer users don't need the power in the steady advances being presented as the latest Macs, but apple keeps advancing them anyway.

A high percentage of the public doesn't need the full power of the latest iphones or ipods, but Apple keeps advancing them anyway.

A high percentage of the public may not need 1080p playback functionality now, or even in the next few years, but since many competitors are able to build it into their variations of an :apple:TV, why doesn't Apple advance this technology anyway?

To some degree, I could care less that the American pipes are not big enough to sell me 1080p movies via iTunes. In my own case, I have shot home movies in 1080p, edited them in Apple software, and can export them in Apple-friendly video containers. But I can't watch those on my HDTV unless I hook something other than :apple:TV to that TV.

Apple regularly suggests that iTunes content is about selling more hardware. Apparently, Apple makes its money by selling more hardware, not movies via iTunes. The next :apple:TV that I want to buy needs to be able to match the output capabilities of cheaper devices like the Western Digital HD box, and that is the same capability being promoted by the CE industry as "true HD" (presumably we have "false HD" in anything less than 1080p:rolleyes:)

Apple's own software, including the "free" one (iMovie) that comes with any computer purchase can read 1080p video and write 1080p video. So, the weak link in the chain is that the :apple:TV can't actually show that video.

Someday, maybe America will finally be able to access higher capacity bandwith. There are other markets in the world where :apple:TV could be sold, and where average bandwith far exceeds what we get in the U.S.

Certainly, Apple has the capability to somewhat futureproof a new version of :apple:TV by giving it a capability that may not be needed by many Americans for a few more years, much like my Macs don't utilize every bit of hard drive space, nor every cycle of their processors, nor every bit of their RAM today.

The new iphone 3GS has advanced features like tethering and MMS that we don't get to enjoy in the U.S. yet because AT&T says no, not because it can't be provided. Apple built these features in anyway, even if the (AT&T) "pipes" may not be able to handle them today.

If the logic is that since the bandwith limitations would impede our ability to buy 1080p movies from iTunes, there is no need for an :apple:TV that can playback anything more than limited 720p, that same logic should work against advancing every other Apple product that has features beyond the needs of what many customers can utilize today.

Long rant short, obviously my biggest wish for September is still 1080p playback hardware without compromises. And no 1080p iTunes content, studio approval, or enhanced broadband infrastructure is required to grant this wish. All that is needed is for Apple to simply decide to build it and let that other stuff happen when it happens.
 
I've been expecting 1080p capability and an app store. As a streaming device, I'd be happy with a smaller SSD to keep temps down. And the long shot is a built in Bluray drive, but I'm not holding my breath on that one. Whether they update it or not, I'm buying another one after the event. It suits my needs perfectly.
 
Simply look at the latest stats of console usage...360 is killing everything else out there. It is big, it is noisy and it does consume a lot or power...each are MINOR issues compared to USAGE and CONTENT. You can always isolate/hide the box.

I haven't had a RRoD yet. But yes, quality is not the 360's strong suit. The 360 Xbox LIVE experience is by far the BEST thing in the living room right now.

I have any Xbox 360 and an AppleTV. I have two big problems with the Xbox that keep me from using it for anything but games.

1. Ads. They are everywhere and dominate the user interface. It's hard to find what you are looking for because there are so many, and they are not visually distinguishable from actual features and content. I do acknowledge that the AppleTV has too many links to the iTunes Store, but the problem on the Xbox 360 is another order of magnitude.

2. Microsoft points. They are a scam. They are designed to confuse the consumer and make things seem cheaper than they really are. As long as they are part of the interface, I will not purchase anything from the marketplace.
 
Wasn't everyone jumping up and down crowing about how they'd worked out how to use adaptive bitrates for streaming to iphones over EDGE, 3G and WiFi? - well I'm sure that would work over fixed lines - a simple measure of the bandwidth and adjust the file quality on the fly.

If the iphone 3GS chip really is capable of 1080p as has been suggested, then this ARM setup (or even two!) would move the ATV2 nicely away from the ancient power-inefficient Crofton/7300Go combination. Add in the 6 year old SATA standard and either let us rent TV shows or start supporting regional catchup services (such as BBC iplayer) and we have a winner.
 
Wasn't everyone jumping up and down crowing about how they'd worked out how to use adaptive bitrates for streaming to iphones over EDGE, 3G and WiFi? - well I'm sure that would work over fixed lines - a simple measure of the bandwidth and adjust the file quality on the fly.

Yes. There's a demo from Apple's CDN Akamai @ http://iphone.akamai.com/

I'm hoping that Apple applies this to both the iPhone and Apple TV for iTunes content.
 
What about the PS3? I think that's what I'll most likely go for if there's no update to the ATV. I read an article today saying that the PS3 was being updated one 1st September with a new slimmer model with 120GB hard drive for £249. Seems a bargain to me, considering it has BR.
 
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