ATV just for music?

[dork420]

I bought an TV specifically for audio, never intending to use it for video (I have a 4:3 tv that does not do widescreen). I had a Roku Soundbridge before that worked quite well, was small, and had a very nice interface for searching; unfortunately, the only display was too small to see from my couch. The TV does what I intended it to do, but its interface (although very nice on a large 50" tv) is quite crude IMHO, so you might want to try before you buy. I just wish they would add a search function; I suppose I should make some more playlists, but I hate playlists. I don't know what you currently have, and I'm sure you already know this, but the TV requires a tv with component (not composite) or hdmi inputs, and it would be much better if that tv had support for widescreen mode, otherwise the video (even the menu) will look squished and not very pleasant. Just my 2 cents.

Yeah I have all that, HDTV, nice polk speakers, onkyo receiver, hdmi, etc. etc., I'm in heaven. Just want to listen to more music in the living room.
I might wait till the next Apple TV. Any news?

 

[MikieMikie]

Yeah I have all that, HDTV, nice polk speakers, onkyo receiver, hdmi, etc. etc., I'm in heaven. Just want to listen to more music in the living room.
I might wait till the next Apple TV. Any news?

What next Apple TV? You assume a lot.

Apple TV is one of those niche products that has yet to have wide acceptance. Look, if you can't decided that you want it, think of how few people in the "mainstream" want it. The "what do I need it for" thread is common in this forum -- common enough to convince me that, unless Apple does some serious work in providing content, this may be the last Apple TV update.

I was happy with version 1.0 software, and found the YouTube addition in 1.1 to be welcomed. But I don't rent (many) videos online -- I bought my unit for music (and ripped DVDs secondarily).

My comment can be summed up as, "If it does what you need it to do, don't wait. It may not be there later."

 

[dork420]

What next Apple TV? You assume a lot.

Apple TV is one of those niche products that has yet to have wide acceptance. Look, if you can't decided that you want it, think of how few people in the "mainstream" want it. The "what do I need it for" thread is common in this forum -- common enough to convince me that, unless Apple does some serious work in providing content, this may be the last Apple TV update.

I was happy with version 1.0 software, and found the YouTube addition in 1.1 to be welcomed. But I don't rent (many) videos online -- I bought my unit for music (and ripped DVDs secondarily).

My comment can be summed up as, "If it does what you need it to do, don't wait. It may not be there later."

good points. I think since so many people have laptops, I see your point. But for me , who has an office and a nice Imac , being able to surf the net on my tv to check the weather, sports, etc. , would be great. I think that's it.
Youtube and flikr are great but having some flexibility for the end user to access the internet would be great. And doing so without hacking...

bottom line however, music is my main reason for wanting an ATV

lastly, it would be nice to be able to modify the menus to cater to the individual. You can do it with the ipods.

 

[mchalebk]

The "what do I need it for" thread is common in this forum -- common enough to convince me that, unless Apple does some serious work in providing content, this may be the last Apple TV update.

Before iTunes rentals came on line, this might have been a fair statement. However, with Apple having every major studio committed to online rentals, there is no way the AppleTV is anywhere near to being abandoned. It would take a total collapse of the online rental business for Apple to give up on the AppleTV. It is a long way from being what it could be, but it is a really long way from being done.

 

[MikieMikie]

Before iTunes rentals came on line, this might have been a fair statement. However, with Apple having every major studio committed to online rentals, there is no way the AppleTV is anywhere near to being abandoned. It would take a total collapse of the online rental business for Apple to give up on the AppleTV. It is a long way from being what it could be, but it is a really long way from being done.

When iTunes rentals reach a "critical mass," I am sure Apple will advertise Apple TV and the way you can effortlessly rent film. Until then, it remains an "iffy" proposition.

Movies are not being added at anywhere near the rate that The Steve implied they would. It's okey dokey with me, but until the general populace is told that Apple TV coupled with online rentals exists, it'll remain our little secret. That means that we're still hobbyists, and at any time, Apple may decide it's just not worth the counter space in their stores.

My point* is that until media is added at a commercially acceptable pace, there will be no ads for Apple TV. While the studios are "committed" to it, I'd say we all know what commitment means when studios are involved (or are you too young to remember way back to HDTV vs BluRay?). The rental part of store is bug-rich and feature-poor. Someone needs to take charge of it and make sure it's running smoothly while studios add their back catalogs. We have such a long way to go, and have been waiting for such a long time, it just seems like this is headed to the land of the Newton.

And, now, with Warner Cable in Texas capping downloads, effectively stopping people from downloading/streaming movies, and other cable companies soon to follow, you have to wonder about the viability of Apple TV (and Netflix's box).

(* beside the one on top of my head)

 

[mchalebk]

When iTunes rentals reach a "critical mass," I am sure Apple will advertise Apple TV and the way you can effortlessly rent film. Until then, it remains an "iffy" proposition.

Movies are not being added at anywhere near the rate that The Steve implied they would. It's okey dokey with me, but until the general populace is told that Apple TV coupled with online rentals exists, it'll remain our little secret. That means that we're still hobbyists, and at any time, Apple may decide it's just not worth the counter space in their stores.

My point* is that until media is added at a commercially acceptable pace, there will be no ads for Apple TV. While the studios are "committed" to it, I'd say we all know what commitment means when studios are involved (or are you too young to remember way back to HDTV vs BluRay?). The rental part of store is bug-rich and feature-poor. Someone needs to take charge of it and make sure it's running smoothly while studios add their back catalogs. We have such a long way to go, and have been waiting for such a long time, it just seems like this is headed to the land of the Newton.

And, now, with Warner Cable in Texas capping downloads, effectively stopping people from downloading/streaming movies, and other cable companies soon to follow, you have to wonder about the viability of Apple TV (and Netflix's box).

(* beside the one on top of my head)

I'm not disagreeing with most of what you're saying, just some of your conclusions. Remember the lukewarm reception the iPod got when it came out? It took a long time for that to catch on. I'm not saying that the AppleTV will ever be as big as the iPod (it won't), but The Steve knows that this is a project that will take some time. When he managed to line up all the studios to support rentals, that was a very big deal. Yes, there's a lot of work to be done. And the long-term future of the AppleTV may indeed be iffy, but not the short-term future. There is no way that Apple will not continue to support the AppleTV for a couple more iterations (at a minimum).

Jobs knows that Apple has a chance to be THE online movie rental company just like they are THE online music company (actually, now THE music retailer, not just online). Apple has a chance to make the rules. He's not going to let that opportunity pass by without giving it plenty of time.

 

[MikieMikie]

I'm not disagreeing with most of what you're saying, just some of your conclusions. Remember the lukewarm reception the iPod got when it came out? It took a long time for that to catch on. I'm not saying that the AppleTV will ever be as big as the iPod (it won't), but The Steve knows that this is a project that will take some time. When he managed to line up all the studios to support rentals, that was a very big deal. Yes, there's a lot of work to be done. And the long-term future of the AppleTV may indeed be iffy, but not the short-term future. There is no way that Apple will not continue to support the AppleTV for a couple more iterations (at a minimum).

Jobs knows that Apple has a chance to be THE online movie rental company just like they are THE online music company (actually, now THE music retailer, not just online). Apple has a chance to make the rules. He's not going to let that opportunity pass by without giving it plenty of time.

Okay. I hope you are right. I really do.

Clearly, I would love for their commitment to be long-standing, and for this product to take off.

I would still caution people to be realistic in assessing the likelihood of product cancellations. Apple is a business, and will continue to support Apple TV until it has proven to be a failure, as they did with the Newton.

While the content is in the hands of the squirrelly studios, The Steve is at their mercy. Sure, he has the cash to wait them out, but there are just too many variables out of his reach. When you look at the iPhone, for example, he eliminated as many potential stress points as possible to minimize failure. Here, building a media device that's being fed by studios is a path more likely to fail than succeed.

Studios are notoriously backward-minded, unstable (re: executives in charge), and ridiculously fearful of letting the digital dog out. The store itself (as a rental vehicle) is still in its infancy, so I'm not running around shouting "The sky is falling." I am just cautioning the OP against waiting for something that may never come. And enjoying our conversation, too.

 

[mchalebk]

I realize that the AppleTv is not assured of a long and prosperous future. However, it does appear that the future for movie viewing in the home is going to be online. Blu-ray might catch on, but I'm afraid that the format war may have dealt a serious blow to HD discs and people (average Joe) might just stick with their upscaling DVD players for the time being. Plus, from researching Blu-ray, I'm not convinced that it's ready for prime time.

In steps the download market. Apple is riding high on the success of the iPod, the iTunes store and the iPhone. The Macintosh has doubled its market share in the last few years. Apple is the biggest name in tech and Jobs is the face. The AppleTv got a lot of press from MacWorld this year and gets mentioned every time some supposed competing technology is introduced. Apple is positioned to win the lion's share of this new marketplace and won't give up easily.

Are there obstacles? Sure. In my mind, the rentals cost $1 too much across the board. They cannot compete with my NetFlix membership dollar for dollar (we watch 8 or more DVDs a month and pay less than $20, plus I'll likely end up getting one of those NetFlix boxes that allow free downloads). In addition, they need to allow more than 24 hours to let you view something once you've downloaded it (36 or 48 hours is much more reasonable).

Nevertheless, Apple is poised, along with NetFlix, to take the lead in this market. They will give it every chance to succeed and will not admit defeat easily.

Furthermore, I see Apple partnering with more websites along the lines of YouTube to increase the utility of this. I didn't care at all about the YouTube feature, until I got my AppleTV and saw how cool it is to be able to watch this stuff on my home theater system. I imagine that Apple is working to add much more peripheral capability.

 

[mchalebk]

And ditto on the conversation thing.

 

[MikieMikie]

Once in awhile I get involved in an interesting conversation on this board.

I realize that the AppleTv is not assured of a long and prosperous future.

On this we are unanimous.

However, it does appear that the future for movie viewing in the home is going to be online.

I had hoped this was true, but the ISPs are starting to cap users for the amount downloaded. Pricing goes up $1 per GB, which would increase the cost of ITMS rentals even more. (The assumption is that cable companies are doing this due to their limited bandwidths and their desire to have their customers do PPV.)

If more companies cap downloads over a 24 hr period, we can pretty much kiss this rental model goodbye.

Blu-ray might catch on, but I'm afraid that the format war may have dealt a serious blow to HD discs and people (average Joe) might just stick with their upscaling DVD players for the time being. Plus, from researching Blu-ray, I'm not convinced that it's ready for prime time.

Again, I agree and hope that time bears this out.

In my mind, the rentals cost $1 too much across the board. They cannot compete with my NetFlix membership dollar for dollar (we watch 8 or more DVDs a month and pay less than $20, plus I'll likely end up getting one of those NetFlix boxes that allow free downloads). In addition, they need to allow more than 24 hours to let you view something once you've downloaded it (36 or 48 hours is much more reasonable)

I have a similar plan and cycle between 10 and 15 DVDs a month (Blockbuster) so ITMS would be prohibitively expensive. (I pay ~$16.)

I see Apple partnering with more websites along the lines of YouTube to increase the utility of this. I didn't care at all about the YouTube feature, until I got my AppleTV and saw how cool it is to be able to watch this stuff on my home theater system. I imagine that Apple is working to add much more peripheral capability.

Well, being a dinosaur in software development, and having worked with a few large companies (including Apple), I believe there's probably one coder, whose cubicle is the size of a broom closet, devoted to Apple TV. I'm sure he has his hands full fixing bugs.

The Steve pours the power on where it'll do the most good -- iPods, iPhone and Snow Leopard. I fear that, resources-wise, Apple TV is a distant last. So I am not holding my breath for any updates, bug fixes, new features or miracles.

 

[dork420]

I think there will be room for more software updates.

What could possible be in a hardware upgrade within reason? excluding obvious things that won't happen , a disc drive, etc., ect.
It has wireless N

more drive space?


I might pull the trigger this weekend.

 

[MikieMikie]

I think there will be room for more software updates.

What could possible be in a hardware upgrade within reason? excluding obvious things that won't happen , a disc drive, etc., ect.
It has wireless N

more drive space?


I might pull the trigger this weekend.

No one anticipates a hardware update until The Steve has announced that Apple TV has graduated from "hobby" to "consumer" status. As you can tell by our discussion, no one expects that to be soon.

That said, no expected the Spanish Inquisition, The Steve's Return, or the ridicule the Newton faced. You pays your money, you takes your chance. Like the rest of us.

 

[mchalebk]

A larger capacity hard drive is the only hardware upgrade I can envision for quite some time. I could imagine the 160 GB version becoming the base model and a 300-400 GB drive becoming the upscale version at some point (considering how cheap hard drives are).

If it hangs around long enough, they'll probably add full 1080p capability, but I wouldn't expect that in the next year (or two) and only if the online rental business picks up (not that the online business needs 1080p, but because the online rentals are needed for AppleTV to take the next step).

I'm sure that internet providers will try to cap usage if they can. I think I read that the numbers are something like 5% of users are responsible for 95% of the usage (or something like that). However, the high speed internet infrastructure should keep improving to address these kinds of issues. If one segment (such as fiber optic) starts to dominate because they have more available bandwidth, the other segments will have to improve their technology or risk being left behind.

The movie studios might be the biggest obstacle. My feeling is they'll fall in line if it looks like this can be profitable without too much risk of losing their intellectual property. They have got to give in on this pricing structure, though. I just don't think very many people are going to pony up $5 to rent new HD releases or even $3 for catalog DVD-quality releases. Some people, sure, but that's a lot of money for regular renters to pay when there are much more cost effective methods (NetFlix, Blockbuster).

Any way you look at it, the next couple of years should be interesting.

 

[MikieMikie]

I was meandering through the interwebs and found this goodie on Gizmodo:

The Real Format Wars!

And we thought Beta VS VHS was bad?
Or HD-DVD (remember that?) VS BluRay was bad?

 

[mcdj]

I bought an ATV specifically to listen thru my stereo. The interface isn't perfect, but it works. My only complaints overall are lack of search, lack of a fast scrolling alphabet like my iPod, and the heat generated by my LCD TV.

For an audiophile setup, I recommend a DAC. I had a discussion here a while back about using an outboard DAC with the ATV. I was assured by one individual that it was overkill and wholly unneccessary. I ultimately ignored that advice and I'm glad I did. I can vouch, that through my Rowland Capri preamp/102 amp, with B&W 683s, a Benchmark DAC1 makes a dramatic improvement over the Apple TV's built in DAC.

 

[cubbie5150]

I bought an ATV specifically to listen thru my stereo. The interface isn't perfect, but it works. My only complaints overall are lack of search, lack of a fast scrolling alphabet like my iPod, and the heat generated by my LCD TV.

For an audiophile setup, I recommend a DAC. I had a discussion here a while back about using an outboard DAC with the ATV. I was assured by one individual that it was overkill and wholly unneccessary. I ultimately ignored that advice and I'm glad I did. I can vouch, that through my Rowland Capri preamp/102 amp, with B&W 683s, a Benchmark DAC1 makes a dramatic improvement over the Apple TV's built in DAC.

Yeah, whenever someone brings up things like DACs, there's always gonna be someone who claims that they make no difference. Let your ears be your guide in that respect is what I say. Maybe the science doesn't bear it out, but I've found DACs to matter (well, more than the simple DAC chip, but you know what I mean). I just ordered an ATV for music as well. Once my home setup is upgraded from a receiver to separates (amp + pre-amp w/ no DAC/digital processing), I'll be buying an external DAC to use w/ my ATV (probably a PS Audio Digital Link III)