Backlit Keyboard...Revisited

[bchreng]

back atcha. Had it occurred to you that some of us don't care about the MBA not having a backlit keyboard because we had the feature turned off on our MBPs? I assure that I for one am not a member of the "Steve Jobs and Apple can do no wrong fanbois club" and wouldn't have used a backlit keyboard feature on my MBA even if it had been included.

So as long as you're not part of the 'I don't need or use it so no one else should either club.'

I think they should remove the letters and symbols from the keys. They only add to the cost and make it difficult when you want to change key mappings.

This!

 

[gwsat]

back atcha. Had it occurred to you that some of us don't care about the MBA not having a backlit keyboard because we had the feature turned off on our MBPs? I assure that I for one am not a member of the "Steve Jobs and Apple can do no wrong fanbois club" and wouldn't have used a backlit keyboard feature on my MBA even if it had been included.

So as long as you're not part of the 'I don't need or use it so no one else should either club.'

The solution for those of you who won't buy a computer that lacks a backlit keyboard is not to buy an MBA. The design of an ultra laptop involves a lot of compromises. In my case, I found nothing wrong with Apple's decision not to include a backlit keyboard in the new MBA. I am sure that they realized when they were deliberating on the issue that some of you would not buy an MBA without a backlit keyboard and decided not to include it anyway.

I am genuinely sorry that those of you who grew to depend on backlit keyboards are disappointed, in some cases bitterly so. But that gives you no right to accuse me and others of fanboism because we don't care that the MBA doesn't have a backlit keyboard. Think about it.

 

[iRun26.2]

The solution for those of you who won't buy a computer that lacks a backlit keyboard is not to buy an MBA. The design of an ultra laptop involves a lot of compromises. In my case, I found nothing wrong with Apple's decision not to include a backlit keyboard in the new MBA. I am sure that they realized when they were deliberating on the issue that some of you would not buy an MBA without a backlit keyboard and decided not to include it anyway.

I am genuinely sorry that those of you who grew to depend on backlit keyboards are disappointed, in some cases bitterly so. But that gives you no right to accuse me and others of fanboism because we don't care that the MBA doesn't have a backlit keyboard. Think about it.

They may bring it back sometime...maybe they underestimated how many people would miss it.

I do not consider myself 'bitter' about it. I am just unsure of how much less I might like it. Had it had the backlit keyboard I would have ordered it long ago.

My current thinking is that I may just buy it and try it out. If I really find it unusable in the dark, I would consider it worth the restocking fee to retune it. There are really so many gains in other areas of the design that it might be still worth checking out.

 

[gwsat]

They may bring it back sometime...maybe they underestimated how many people would miss it.

I do not consider myself 'bitter' about it. I am just unsure of how much less I might like it. Had it had the backlit keyboard I would have ordered it long ago.

My current thinking is that I may just buy it and try it out. If I really find it unusable in the dark, I would consider it worth the restocking fee to retune it. There are really so many gains in other areas of the design that it might be still worth checking out.

I didn't think you sounded bitter at all, in fact, far from it. My complaint was about those posters who were so angry about Apple's not having included a backlit keyboard in the new MBA, they reacted to those of us who said we didn't mind its absence by calling us "Fanboys." I admit, that did tend to make me a little hostile.

 

[nicoplanet]

We'll talk about backlit keyboard in 7 months

If Apple put it back, it will be kind of weird!

 

[Corndog5595]

If you dont than you shouldn't be using a computer.

Gotta learn to touch-type on a typewriter before upgrading to a computer?
lolwut

 

[puma1552]

The solution for those of you who won't buy a computer that lacks a backlit keyboard is not to buy an MBA. The design of an ultra laptop involves a lot of compromises. In my case, I found nothing wrong with Apple's decision not to include a backlit keyboard in the new MBA. I am sure that they realized when they were deliberating on the issue that some of you would not buy an MBA without a backlit keyboard and decided not to include it anyway.

I am genuinely sorry that those of you who grew to depend on backlit keyboards are disappointed, in some cases bitterly so. But that gives you no right to accuse me and others of fanboism because we don't care that the MBA doesn't have a backlit keyboard. Think about it.

It's not so much that people depend on it but rather that Apple took it away for zero reason.

Anyone who believes they took it away for battery reasons doesn't have a clue--given that the new MBA gets an estimated 7 hours of battery--under the more stringent/realistic tests--this means battery life effectively has doubled from the last MBA. Furthermore, the keyboard backlight utilized LEDs that barely, barely sip power. So it has nothing to do with battery.

Does it have to do with the computer being thin? Doubtful, it's marginally thinner than the last MBA, and again the keyboard backlight takes up very, very little space.

It's just Apple at its finest--taking away a useful feature--again--for no reason other than to reintroduce it later to gouge everyone into upgrading their machines because Apple will have "learned something."

 

[cherry su]

The backlit keyboard is useful for looking at the function keys. Otherwise, I have no problem finding out which key is which.

 

[gwsat]

It's not so much that people depend on it but rather that Apple took it away for zero reason.

Anyone who believes they took it away for battery reasons doesn't have a clue--given that the new MBA gets an estimated 7 hours of battery--under the more stringent/realistic tests--this means battery life effectively has doubled from the last MBA. Furthermore, the keyboard backlight utilized LEDs that barely, barely sip power. So it has nothing to do with battery.

Does it have to do with the computer being thin? Doubtful, it's marginally thinner than the last MBA, and again the keyboard backlight takes up very, very little space.

It's just Apple at its finest--taking away a useful feature--again--for no reason other than to reintroduce it later to gouge everyone into upgrading their machines because Apple will have "learned something."

Yeah, I regret that they did it to you, too. My point was only that those of us who didn't care about a lighted keyboard or, in my case, even know that the old MBA's had the feature, are not the enemy. Although I wasn't hurt by Apple's decision to eliminate the lighted keyboard in the new MBA, I am sorry that it happened. Some of the cynics are saying that Apple did this only so they could give it back in the next revision. If that happens, you will have me, for one, on your team.

 

[iRun26.2]

I didn't think you sounded bitter at all, in fact, far from it. My complaint was about those posters who were so angry about Apple's not having included a backlit keyboard in the new MBA, they reacted to those of us who said we didn't mind its absence by calling us "Fanboys." I admit, that did tend to make me a little hostile.

Thanks. I am still relatively new to these forums.

I do miss the backlight but I can understand those who don't miss it (like you). I value everyone's opinion, but there are some responders who seem to think I am wrong if I simply do not think like them.

Reading the forums can be entertaining just because some people seem rather blunt in their responses (as if they don't think about things before they type).

 

[gwsat]

Thanks. I am still relatively new to these forums.

I do miss the backlight but I can understand those who don't miss it (like you). I value everyone's opinion, but there are some responders who seem to think I am wrong if I simply do not think like them.

Reading the forums can be entertaining just because some people seem rather blunt in their responses (as if they don't think about things before they type).

Welcome to every technical form in the universe, where a deep knowledge of the subject being discussed is common. Far less common, alas, are the social skills to convey that knowledge and react to disagreement courteously. Anyway, if I may pass on my humble opinion, I think you passed the courtesy test.

 

[bossxii]

It's not so much that people depend on it but rather that Apple took it away for zero reason.

Anyone who believes they took it away for battery reasons doesn't have a clue--given that the new MBA gets an estimated 7 hours of battery--under the more stringent/realistic tests--this means battery life effectively has doubled from the last MBA. Furthermore, the keyboard backlight utilized LEDs that barely, barely sip power. So it has nothing to do with battery.

Does it have to do with the computer being thin? Doubtful, it's marginally thinner than the last MBA, and again the keyboard backlight takes up very, very little space.

It's just Apple at its finest--taking away a useful feature--again--for no reason other than to reintroduce it later to gouge everyone into upgrading their machines because Apple will have "learned something."

Do you have any technical facts to back up all those topics you've speculated on? I would guess if the LED display eats up battery life, led's to light up a keyboard would effect battery life as well. Always a trade off for weight, thinness, battery life etc..

I'm interested to know facts if they are available as to how much power a backlit keyboard would use, or how much space is actually needed to run the wires. So far I've seen no one post actual facts on the matter.

 

[flynz4]

Do you have any technical facts to back up all those topics you've speculated on? I would guess if the LED display eats up battery life, led's to light up a keyboard would effect battery life as well. Always a trade off for weight, thinness, battery life etc..

I'm interested to know facts if they are available as to how much power a backlit keyboard would use, or how much space is actually needed to run the wires. So far I've seen no one post actual facts on the matter.

Since the intensity (and hence power) used by backlights can be reduced to zero... there is no reason that the backlight should reduce battery life for anyone who would choose not to use it.

It does however remove a valuable feature for those who want it. I'd be shocked if Apple does not re-introduce it in the next MBA update.

/Jim

 

[iRun26.2]

Returned your MBA?

Are there people out there who bought a new MBA yet actually returned it because they decided that they really couldn't use if without the keyboard backlight?

I think I'm going to give it a shot...the other benefits of the new model look so good!

 

[Carouser]

Do you have any technical facts to back up all those topics you've speculated on? . . .I'm interested to know facts if they are available as to how much power a backlit keyboard would use, or how much space is actually needed to run the wires. So far I've seen no one post actual facts on the matter.

+1

It's just Apple at its finest--taking away a useful feature--again--for no reason other than to reintroduce it later to gouge everyone into upgrading their machines because Apple will have "learned something."

If a person buys the MBA now and also buys it in the near future because it is rereleased with a backlit keyboard, I don't think that's 'Apple gouging', I think it's someone 'wasting money'.

If in the future Apple releases a new iteration of the MBA with increased spec beyond a backlit keyboard, I don't think that's gouging either.

If someone thinks the current MBA with its current spec is not worth the price, she is free to not buy it. If people do buy the current MBA, that is evidence that the backlit keyboard is not necessary to satisfy demand.

While it seems peculiar and perhaps disappointing that there is no backlit keyboard in the current iteration, I haven't seen an answer to bossxii's questions above. I've seen people defend their intuitions and speculations, but that's a lot different than the facts.

 

[iRun26.2]

Since the intensity (and hence power) used by backlights can be reduced to zero... there is no reason that the backlight should reduce battery life for anyone who would choose not to use it.

It does however remove a valuable feature for those who want it. I'd be shocked if Apple does not re-introduce it in the next MBA update.

/Jim

That just seems so...devious, almost. I guess that maybe is a smart business tactic. I just don't want to wait that long.

 

[HLdan]

Are there people out there who bought a new MBA yet actually returned it because they decided that they really couldn't use if without the keyboard backlight?

I think I'm going to give it a shot...the other benefits of the new model look so good!

Do you honestly need it that badly? The only reason why you want it is because you've seen it other Apple notebooks. It's not like it's a standard for all PC notebooks to have a backlit keyboard. Had it never existed would you still feel the same way about returning it? It's unfortunate for you that you're giving up a computer that offers so much more than just some way to light up the keyboard.

Don't get me wrong, I love the backlit keyboard but aren't you making a mountain out of a molehill about this?

 

[iRun26.2]

Do you honestly need it that badly? The only reason why you want it is because you've seen it other Apple notebooks. It's not like it's a standard for all PC notebooks to have a backlit keyboard. Had it never existed would you still feel the same way about returning it? It's unfortunate for you that you're giving up a computer that offers so much more than just some way to light up the keyboard.

Don't get me wrong, I love the backlit keyboard but aren't you making a mountain out of a molehill about this?

No, I don't think I am. My original MBA was the first computer I ever bought from Apple. I was so impressed with the style and special features (like the keyboard backlight, for example) that it made me think 'Apple is different!'. I swore I'd never buy another PC again. They made it less special by removing the backlight. I use it virtually every day in the dark and I will miss that feature. It is simply a step backwards, in my opinion.

 

[flynz4]

That just seems so...devious, almost. I guess that maybe is a smart business tactic. I just don't want to wait that long.

My 11.6" came in today. From my early tests... the illumination of the keyboard is highly dependent upon the angle of the screen. At 90 degrees, it is so-so, but not great. If the screen is angled in toward the keyboard (an acute angle)... then it is much brighter. The problem is that a laptop is seldom used in this configuration.

Most of the time... the screen it tipped back with an obtuse angle wrt the keyboard. In this configuration... the screen illumination of the keys is diminished. I am quite disappointed in the performance. This is especially true because I generally lay back in bed with my knees up at an angle. With the laptop on my legs... I have to tip the screen back fully (maximum obtuse angle)... and the illumination on the keys is nil.

I love the small size... and because the center of gravity is moved forward because of the small size... it feels much lighter than the 13.3" model when griped from the front edge (my normal method of moving it). I prefer the 11.6" over the 13.3" primarily for this reason.

I think I am going to stay with my current plan of keeping the 11.6" for myself and giving the 13.3" Rev C MBA (w/SSD) to my wife. Since both of our MBA's are configured exactly, with the same applications... plus we use 100% cloud synchronized user files, iMAP email, etc... we can each pick up either MBA... log into our own user accounts... and the operating environment will be identical. Since my wife seldom uses a laptop around our house... I will probably use her 13.3" with backlit keyboard at night while at home, so I do not have to turn on a light and wake her up.

Next year, when Apple updates with a new MBA model with a back-lit keyboard (I am >90% sure they will do this)... I'll buy myself whichever model appeals to me the most, hand my 11.6" down to my wife (she only uses it on a well illuminated desk or tables during our frequent trips)... and then I will sell my Rev C MBA.

I know this is not what you wanted to hear... but for me, the lack of an backlit keyboard is a major step backwards. Still, there are other advantages that make the new model nice.

/Jim

 

[fyrefly]

Count me among those who misses the backlit keyboard on the new model. I had an 11" but for lots of reasons (including the backlit keyboard) I returned it already.

I also think Apple will put the Backlit keyboard back in a future (hopefully Summer 2010) revision. They did it with the backlit keyboard in the 13" Low-end Aluminum MacBook. October 2008 = New Unibody Macbooks. No Backlight in the base-model. June 2009 = Unibody MacBooks become "Macbook Pros" - Backlight's back!

Here's hoping!

 

[jeznav]

Compare

It's not so much that people depend on it but rather that Apple took it away for zero reason.
...
Does it have to do with the computer being thin? Doubtful, it's marginally thinner than the last MBA, and again the keyboard backlight takes up very, very little space.

It's just Apple at its finest--taking away a useful feature--again--for no reason other than to reintroduce it later to gouge everyone into upgrading their machines because Apple will have "learned something."

A typical laptop keyboard consists of many layers: Keys, actuators to lock movement in one direction and keep it in place, rubber nubs for electrical contact and tension to spring back up, a sheet of electrical contacts to trigger key commands and a metal chassis for support.

As far as I can tell from the tear down, there is barely any space left to add 2-3 more layers on the keyboard for the backlit housing: For that you need a clear plastic plate for light refraction, a diffuser sheet to reflect light back through the keys, strips of LEDs along the edge of the plastic plate and a back panel for seal.

Compare these tear down images against the first two images of the old MBA. As an engineer, how would you fit them together?

Probably Apple's next engineering feat wont be using refractive plates that consume 2-3 layers but by instead using optic fibres integrated in the plastic logic sheet and is lit up by a single LED light. That way they don't have to compromise thickness.
^
^
EDIT: I just this request to Apple Feedback hoping we might see back-lit keyboards for the next MBA.

 

[Mr. Savage]

The thing people aren't taking into account when lamenting the deletion of the backlit keys on the MBA is that, with this update, the Air has essentially been repositioned more toward the entry level of the MacBook line. (Perhaps even killing off the white MacBook).

In doing so, Apple has cleverly also repurposed the very definition of the "Air" designation: While it still means light (as in weight), it now also means light as in less –– less powerful, less features, less expensive etc.

At the recent keynote Jobs declared the MBA "the future of laptops" and that was very telling. In doing so, it became somewhat safe to speculate that the MacBook Pro will eventually adopt certain things from the MBA (solid state drives and no optical drive for example).

Coupled with more up-to-date processors, etc. the next MacBook Pro will earn its "Pro" designation simply by having features that so many people feel were missing from the new updated MBA––features such as backlit keys.

 

[happyslayer]

When I first heard that the feature was missing, I ranted and raved to my wife and friends... but then went ahead and purchased one anyway.

I do miss it, but the keys are definitely brighter than my last Air (when the backlight was off) and I have learned to deal with it. The small size and lack of weight on the 11.6 trump the backlit keyboard.

 

[nicoplanet]

A typical laptop keyboard consists of many layers: Keys, actuators to lock movement in one direction and keep it in place, rubber nubs for electrical contact and tension to spring back up, a sheet of electrical contacts to trigger key commands and a metal chassis for support.

As far as I can tell from the tear down, there is barely any space left to add 2-3 more layers on the keyboard for the backlit housing: For that you need a clear plastic plate for light refraction, a diffuser sheet to reflect light back through the keys, strips of LEDs along the edge of the plastic plate and a back panel for seal.

Compare these tear down images against the first two images of the old MBA. As an engineer, how would you fit them together?

Very interesting! I didn't have clues about technical reasons to remove the backlit keyboard. But with you explanations and pictures, it's cleared now: probably not just a marketing reason! Indeed, there is barely no room for it.

It makes me less suspicious about this decision...

 

[robeddie]

The thing people aren't taking into account when lamenting the deletion of the backlit keys on the MBA is that, with this update, the Air has essentially been repositioned more toward the entry level of the MacBook line. (Perhaps even killing off the white MacBook).

In doing so, Apple has cleverly also repurposed the very definition of the "Air" designation: While it still means light (as in weight), it now also means light as in less –– less powerful, less features, less expensive etc.

"Less powerful" ?!?!?

Doubling the speed of the video card and the hard drive, along with the fact that in tests the current 1.86ghz cpu also seems to be faster in tests (macworld, etc) than the last gen MBA 1.86. Exactly how, might you say that this MBA is 'less powerful'?

I've got a 1.4ghz 11.6 and it seems considerably faster than my old 13" 1.86ghz MBA.