I've never considered my Rev B to be "too thick." I think this was purely a cost-cutting move to protect profit margins.
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Backlit Keyboard...Revisited
- Thread starter iRun26.2
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I've never considered my Rev B to be "too thick." I think this was purely a cost-cutting move to protect profit margins.
I stand corrected about the Nvidia 320 GPU, however it's still better than most other PC notebooks that ship with IGPU's. I'm not defending Apple for not including the backlit keyboard, I'm just saying for what you get in the new Airs it looks like Apple is focusing more on power vs. aesthetics and please be real about this, a backlit keyboard is nice addition but the world has gotten along quite well without one since the first consumer notebook arrived on the market many many years ago.
Regardless of your opinion the 4200rpm HDD was used with the Core 2 Duo Airs and Apple made the customer pay for an upgrade and only to an SSD. We're talking about Apple, they would try to pull off putting an Atom processor in an Air and price it at $999, it's not unusual for them. If you find the dropping of the backlit keyboard inexcusable then you know what to do, vote with your wallet. From the looks of things, regardless of all the complaints there's been an abundance of people buying the new Airs and reports have been quite good.
But most people (in the PC world) have never experienced a good backlit keyboard. Thus, it's natural for most to not value it.
This thread is popular because many Apple users are passionate about their backlight. (You don't see any threads of this length where people are bemoaning the fact that only the 13" version of the MBA has a SD Card reader...)
No
In fact, I'm just saying that Apple try to keep the MBA super-fine: they decided to make the battery more fragile just for this purpose... So I think that the millimeters needed by the backlit keyboard has the same destiny
I 100% agree. I'm assuming that 90% of the people that think we're all whiners for wanting the BL keyboard have never had a laptop with a BL keyboard, so they don't see the utility. For those other 10% that had it but never used it, or had it permanently turned off, I guess you truly had no need.
But this keeps boiling down to the fact that the BL keyboard isn't some pie-in-the-sky feature that we all wished for... it's a feature that's been *standard* on the MBA since it came out. For us long-time MBA users - the BL keyboard is second nature, and we miss it.
I don't particularly care if PC users get along famously without it... I've used it every day on my MBA for 3 years and I'm ticked it got taken away. That's all. No disrespect meant to you or others who don't need it. I've just spent lots of $$ on MBAs in the past and loved them. Seems many of the BL-keyboard-haters are newcomers to the MBA eco-system, at least from my casual observations. Besides, even if Apple included it, and some users didn't need/want it, they could always turn it off, and suffer no ill effect.
The 4200RPM drive was a compromise for size. There wasn't a 1.8" 5400RPM drive that would fit in teh Air. The 5400RPM Toshiba was too chubby.
And the 4200RPM drive was a blight on the MBA design. My 2008-era MBA is totally usable even today, 'cause it's got an SSD in it. Not the 4200RPM drive.
And yeah, I'm thinking I am gonna vote with my wallet, and I've already sent Apple feedback and I encourage others to do the same. Of course Apple's selling boatloads of these - they dropped like $500 off the price of entry. They hit the same $999 price point as the White MB, which I think is at least party responsible for the lack of backlight - the race to the bottom of the $999 price-point.
Pretty much every review I've read of the new MBAs has mentioned the lack of backlighting, so it's not like nobody's noticing. I'm just hoping Apple notices enough to bring it back, at least as a BTO option, in the next Rev.
In fact, I'm just saying that Apple try to keep the MBA super-fine: they decided to make the battery more fragile just for this purpose... So I think that the millimeters needed by the backlit keyboard has the same destiny
Sure. But again that points to a form over function design... which, granted, Apple is famous for. It's just this is the first time it's ever impacted me negatively.
Again, I'm assuming (as with Firewire being omitted in October 08 and then returned to the Alu MacBooks in June 09) the BL keyboard will be back! (a la Arnie in the Terminator movies.
)By this logic, why bother having letters on the keyboard at all? If you shouldn't be using a computer if you can't type without looking, then you should be just fine using a keyboard with blank keys.
I couldn't help but laugh when I saw your post... but it is so true!
Apple could have made the keyboard a little cheaper to produce without the letters printed on the keys...but would anyone be buying it?!
I got my MBA on Friday.
Now I love the backlit keyboard on my MacBook Pro (and I've always used backlit keyboards on my gaming PCs too), but I have to say it's not really a problem with the MacBook Air.
Obviously if there was a £20 option to have it I'd tick it, but it's not a killer point.
Now I love the backlit keyboard on my MacBook Pro (and I've always used backlit keyboards on my gaming PCs too), but I have to say it's not really a problem with the MacBook Air.
Obviously if there was a £20 option to have it I'd tick it, but it's not a killer point.
LOL, that's a pretty good analogy.
Although...
There are no real pianos that have the keys labeled (only those made for children/beginners)...
notor1oustg said:
LOL, that's a pretty good analogy.
How did you take it from computer keyboards to pianos?
Although I seldom used the backlit keyboard feature on either of my earlier Macs and have not missed it on my new 13 inch MBA, I think I would have to draw the line at an unmarked keyboard. As much as I love the new MBA, blank keys would have been a deal breaker.I couldn't help but laugh when I saw your post... but it is so true!
Apple could have made the keyboard a little cheaper to produce without the letters printed on the keys...but would anyone be buying it?!
And many more of us can type on a computer than can play the piano. Coincidence, I think not!
Computer / Piano Keyboards
While only a beginner pianist needs to have the keys labeled (which would back up the theory that a backlit keyboard is unnecessary), it is only a very advanced pianist that almost NEVER needs to look down to see where her hands are positioned on the piano's keyboard. This supports my theory that even a good (yet not extremely advanced) touch-typist (like myself) has need of a keyboard backlight to efficiently use the keyboard in darkened conditions.
Also, all quality pianos are basically alike in that the distance between keys (and, thus, distance between octaves, etc) does NOT vary from one manufacturer to another. Any pianist can count on all previous experiences of 'learned' key spacing on a piano as being useful/applicable. Computer keyboards, however, are almost always slightly different from one manufacturer to another. In fact, they are often different just from model to model and from one release to the next where different keyboards often place special function keys in different locations
Just look at the new MBA, for example. The special function key positions (screen brightness up/down, for example) are not in the same position as the previous generation. These keys would most certainly be in different positions on PC laptops.
With the inconsistency in the location of keys it is difficult for anyone who uses the special function keys (or other control keys) to know where they are in dimly lit environments without a backlit keyboard. Typing basic ASCII characters without being able to see the keys is not difficult for touch-typists. It is the other non-standard key location that require a backlight.
While only a beginner pianist needs to have the keys labeled (which would back up the theory that a backlit keyboard is unnecessary), it is only a very advanced pianist that almost NEVER needs to look down to see where her hands are positioned on the piano's keyboard. This supports my theory that even a good (yet not extremely advanced) touch-typist (like myself) has need of a keyboard backlight to efficiently use the keyboard in darkened conditions.
Also, all quality pianos are basically alike in that the distance between keys (and, thus, distance between octaves, etc) does NOT vary from one manufacturer to another. Any pianist can count on all previous experiences of 'learned' key spacing on a piano as being useful/applicable. Computer keyboards, however, are almost always slightly different from one manufacturer to another. In fact, they are often different just from model to model and from one release to the next where different keyboards often place special function keys in different locations
Just look at the new MBA, for example. The special function key positions (screen brightness up/down, for example) are not in the same position as the previous generation. These keys would most certainly be in different positions on PC laptops.
With the inconsistency in the location of keys it is difficult for anyone who uses the special function keys (or other control keys) to know where they are in dimly lit environments without a backlit keyboard. Typing basic ASCII characters without being able to see the keys is not difficult for touch-typists. It is the other non-standard key location that require a backlight.
Nothing "requires" a backlit keyboard because you can always take the time make out the faintly lit characters on the keyboard; even the function keys. Which you will learn the position of as you grow accustomed to the new keyboard. If you always keep your fingers resting on F and J then you can easily locate the keys you need. However, if your hands are off the keyboard because you aren't actively typing it is far more efficient to see exactly where the keys are as opposed to centering your hands with F/J and them moving on from there.
Its a matter of convenience and efficiency and saying you should just become a touch typist so you can type more accurately is like saying you should do as much as you can in Terminal because that's what experienced computers users do.
Its a matter of convenience and efficiency and saying you should just become a touch typist so you can type more accurately is like saying you should do as much as you can in Terminal because that's what experienced computers users do.
Notice the 'Caps Lock' Keyboard Light
It just occurred to me that the new MBA keyboard DOES still have a little green LED that lights up when you hit the 'Caps Lock' key. This implies (to me, at least) that it is possible to fit in the necessary wiring for a backlit keyboard and that they left it out as an issue of cost alone. I find it interesting that left the 'Caps Lock' LED in the keyboard design.
I hope that next summer they introduce a more expensive version of the MBA that brings back the keyboard backlight (and a 256G SSD option for the 11.6" model, too).
It just occurred to me that the new MBA keyboard DOES still have a little green LED that lights up when you hit the 'Caps Lock' key. This implies (to me, at least) that it is possible to fit in the necessary wiring for a backlit keyboard and that they left it out as an issue of cost alone. I find it interesting that left the 'Caps Lock' LED in the keyboard design.
I hope that next summer they introduce a more expensive version of the MBA that brings back the keyboard backlight (and a 256G SSD option for the 11.6" model, too).
Back in the day, when we all learned to touch type at 60+ WPM, all typewriters had exactly the same keys in exactly the same place. (A few typewriters had a few extra keys outside of the standard set, but ).
If only every keyboard had exactly the same keys in exactly the same place, then, we wouldn't need labels or a backlit keyboard.
I completely agree! But the problem is that now all computer keyboards are usually a little different.
My plan is to use my new 11.6" Ultimate in the light as much as possible such that I will get accustomed to where the seldom used keys are when I use my computer in total darkness (while my wife is sleeping).
Now, I just wish that the PC that I have to use at work had the exact same keyboard layout (I have to 'unlearn' this keyboard when I use my MBA).
In the past I've owned a PowerBook G4 with backlit keyboard, a MacBook alu unibody with backlit keyboard (high end). 
That said, I really do not "mis" the backlit keyboard in my new MBA.
It would look like "fun" if it was there, but I really don't care.
There is enough light coming of the screen on the keys, when I ever need to look at the key's.
That said, I really do not "mis" the backlit keyboard in my new MBA.
It would look like "fun" if it was there, but I really don't care.
There is enough light coming of the screen on the keys, when I ever need to look at the key's.
I completely agree! But the problem is that now all computer keyboards are usually a little different.
My plan is to use my new 11.6" Ultimate in the light as much as possible such that I will get accustomed to where the seldom used keys are when I use my computer in total darkness (while my wife is sleeping).
Now, I just wish that the PC that I have to use at work had the exact same keyboard layout (I have to 'unlearn' this keyboard when I use my MBA).
It is not as bad as you think jumping between keyboards. You might not be as fast on another keyboard than what you are used to but they generally are close enough to the same that it is not a huge issues.
The keyboard I use at home when I am coding and typing on my computer at home is a MS Ergonomic 7000 keyboard. I type on my dell laptop keyboard just fine when I am at school and code on it as well (CS major and I needed windows since that is what most of our course work is done in)
I can still type 60+WPM on either keyboard. I often time have to hope on my parents computer that has yet another keyboard and normally their I am doing some touch up work on my stuff before I print them. I have little trouble typing on that standard keyboard as well.
I can nearly type with out looking on my blackberry keyboard with out looking. The key is for all this jumping is the ratio between one key to the other is always the same in how they are relative to each other so it is not hard to jump around between QWERT keyboards that are different sizes.
The MOTIVE is the problem here.
I am really missing the loss of the backlit keyboard. Even five-year-old ThinkPads have had a stupid one LED light system at top of the display that shines down to show the keyboard in the dark. Apple should have done SOMETHING to illuminate the keyboard in the dark. Heck, they could have used glow in the dark keyboard labels or SOMETHING.
I cannot understand why it's not an option at least. I mean charge me $250 for $1 worth of LEDs that take twenty seconds of my charge per cycle. I don't think this has anything to do with thickness, and I also don't think it has to do with power/energy use or battery bragging rights or whatever.
It is nothing to do with costs and it has nothing to due with trying to eliminate costs so they could get to their magical $999 price tag.
I think this has to do with BOOSTING SALES OF FUTURE MBAs ONLY! Just like Apple removed the FireWire from the aluminum MBA, then reintroduced it and then deemed the same Mac a "PRO" Apple will do the same with the MBA. Heck, I will not be surprised if Apple calls it a MacBook Air PRO just by adding the backlit keyboard with the next update. I am not joking here either.
Why not at least keep it on the 13.3" MBAs? I feel the 13" MBA should be an upgrade over the 11" and this would have been a great "extra" feature to entice buyers into spending more money. Apple doesn't do this either because people like me reward them for ripping me off and doing this so I will buy an extra round of MBAs from AAPL. Apple knows many of us want the newest and best. Here Apple used software and removed some hardware, and used low-end hardware, all to sell an extra round of MBAs. Surely the next round of MBAs will look identical but have the real CPU/GPU update and add back the feature of backlit keyboards.
Apple wants all of us who upgrade to this MBA now then to upgrade again to the next MBA which will be differed by a CPU, GPU, and backlit keyboard. It's the MOTIVE that is the real problem here. The user loses out now so Apple can sell another round of MBAs to us faithful Mac junkies. Why not go ahead and charge me the $250 fee that helps mitigate the loss of a future sale plus figure TVM in it? Charge me $250 for the $1 worth of LED backlights for the dang keyboard.
I understand wanting to streamline manufacturing and reduce costs, but I don't get taking away features that users are accustomed to in Macs that cost over $1000! These are not $339 budget PCs at Best Buy and WalMart (BTW many of those have 3GB and 4GB of RAM!). These Macs are a lot of money... a $1799 MBA "ultimate" doesn't even have the same feature that was on the last generation $1799 MBA???
As an Apple fan and customer, I sort of excuse Apple for the prices by saying to myself, "but this Mac has X, Y, and Z that the $339, $499, or even expensive $659 PCs don't have... so it's worth the extra cash." This just doesn't hold true here, and Apple is really reducing to the level of eliminating ALL of the advantages. In addition, Apple doesn't have the big OS advantage it used to have. Lion better bring back some real innovation, and real CPU/GPU upgrades better hit Macs sooner rather than later.
The software side of the new MBAs are great. The instant-on is wonderful, but we're getting so much less in terms of value for our money for hardware/components here. Take away all of the "little things" that made us want the Mac over the PC, all to make a little more now and later, and sooner or later the Mac has NO ADVANTAGES over PCs. We're not too far away from that. We can all give Apple a big round of applause for upgrading a two-year-old MBA, but the losses really add up here.
I would be a lot happier if Apple would "ADD" features to its Macs to entice me to upgrade rather than focusing on "takeaway now and giveback with the next model" strategies like it does and has with the backlit keyboard here.
It is frustrating! And I know I will be dumb enough to buy the next MBA... and I will reward Apple for these BOGUS tactics. But in the long run, Apple needs to refocus itself on innovation again. These were innovative, BUT they also eliminated further the advantages over PCs at 1/2 and even 1/3 of the costs of these Macs.
I am really missing the loss of the backlit keyboard. Even five-year-old ThinkPads have had a stupid one LED light system at top of the display that shines down to show the keyboard in the dark. Apple should have done SOMETHING to illuminate the keyboard in the dark. Heck, they could have used glow in the dark keyboard labels or SOMETHING.
I cannot understand why it's not an option at least. I mean charge me $250 for $1 worth of LEDs that take twenty seconds of my charge per cycle. I don't think this has anything to do with thickness, and I also don't think it has to do with power/energy use or battery bragging rights or whatever.
It is nothing to do with costs and it has nothing to due with trying to eliminate costs so they could get to their magical $999 price tag.
I think this has to do with BOOSTING SALES OF FUTURE MBAs ONLY! Just like Apple removed the FireWire from the aluminum MBA, then reintroduced it and then deemed the same Mac a "PRO" Apple will do the same with the MBA. Heck, I will not be surprised if Apple calls it a MacBook Air PRO just by adding the backlit keyboard with the next update. I am not joking here either.
Why not at least keep it on the 13.3" MBAs? I feel the 13" MBA should be an upgrade over the 11" and this would have been a great "extra" feature to entice buyers into spending more money. Apple doesn't do this either because people like me reward them for ripping me off and doing this so I will buy an extra round of MBAs from AAPL. Apple knows many of us want the newest and best. Here Apple used software and removed some hardware, and used low-end hardware, all to sell an extra round of MBAs. Surely the next round of MBAs will look identical but have the real CPU/GPU update and add back the feature of backlit keyboards.
Apple wants all of us who upgrade to this MBA now then to upgrade again to the next MBA which will be differed by a CPU, GPU, and backlit keyboard. It's the MOTIVE that is the real problem here. The user loses out now so Apple can sell another round of MBAs to us faithful Mac junkies. Why not go ahead and charge me the $250 fee that helps mitigate the loss of a future sale plus figure TVM in it? Charge me $250 for the $1 worth of LED backlights for the dang keyboard.
I understand wanting to streamline manufacturing and reduce costs, but I don't get taking away features that users are accustomed to in Macs that cost over $1000! These are not $339 budget PCs at Best Buy and WalMart (BTW many of those have 3GB and 4GB of RAM!). These Macs are a lot of money... a $1799 MBA "ultimate" doesn't even have the same feature that was on the last generation $1799 MBA???
As an Apple fan and customer, I sort of excuse Apple for the prices by saying to myself, "but this Mac has X, Y, and Z that the $339, $499, or even expensive $659 PCs don't have... so it's worth the extra cash." This just doesn't hold true here, and Apple is really reducing to the level of eliminating ALL of the advantages. In addition, Apple doesn't have the big OS advantage it used to have. Lion better bring back some real innovation, and real CPU/GPU upgrades better hit Macs sooner rather than later.
The software side of the new MBAs are great. The instant-on is wonderful, but we're getting so much less in terms of value for our money for hardware/components here. Take away all of the "little things" that made us want the Mac over the PC, all to make a little more now and later, and sooner or later the Mac has NO ADVANTAGES over PCs. We're not too far away from that. We can all give Apple a big round of applause for upgrading a two-year-old MBA, but the losses really add up here.
I would be a lot happier if Apple would "ADD" features to its Macs to entice me to upgrade rather than focusing on "takeaway now and giveback with the next model" strategies like it does and has with the backlit keyboard here.
It is frustrating! And I know I will be dumb enough to buy the next MBA... and I will reward Apple for these BOGUS tactics. But in the long run, Apple needs to refocus itself on innovation again. These were innovative, BUT they also eliminated further the advantages over PCs at 1/2 and even 1/3 of the costs of these Macs.
Why would they, when even you admit that you are willing to be suckered in?
I swear I fail to understand why some of you are willing to be led around like sheep. Why don't you send a message with your wallet? You know the product isn't what you really want, so DON'T BUY IT. You don't NEED an Air. You want it because it looks cool, but that's exactly the Kool-Aid that Apple keeps serving you and you keep swallowing for some odd damn reason.
IF more people would just stop buying the products and send a message to Jobs that they are not going to settle for a lesser product, maybe they would change strategy. As it is with people basically admitting "I was a sucker for buying this model and I will buy the next model that gives me what I want like a sucker", Apple is not inclined to change. It's this attitude that pisses people off about Apple fans and the Jobsianity followers - they blindly go along with whatever Apple serves and don't do the right thing.
I would consider an Air 13" now that the battery life is decent, but no way in hell will I do so knowing it's a step backwards. Knowing that they gutted a feature for no clear reason. Knowing that it's a distinct possibility they will add it back in a later version. Knowing that Apple's gameplan is to wait on the best features so that people will buy it over and over. I send a message with my wallet - I don't buy it.
