I think the biggest heat complaint I hear (aside from GPU) is the hard drive area heating up. I wonder if swapping out the drive with a solid state disk might help alleviate some of the issues. Too bad they are so pricey, esp. in the SATA version though Samsung makes a 32GB IDE SSD for about 500 bones.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
bad hardware/ good OS
- Thread starter feh
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
I think the biggest heat complaint I hear (aside from GPU) is the hard drive area heating up. I wonder if swapping out the drive with a solid state disk might help alleviate some of the issues. Too bad they are so pricey, esp. in the SATA version though Samsung makes a 32GB IDE SSD for about 500 bones.
I think size is also an issue. The T61 is thicker than the MBP and can therefore cool itself better. You also have to take into account when looking at temperature tests is whether the machines had equivalent GPUs, since these are often the source of heat. The T61 has the design advantage of more vents. Apple probably refuses this on the grounds of aesthetics.
In my experience this is absolutley the case. A laptop machine outfitted with a core 2 duo, 7,200 rpm hard drive and fast graphics card will either a) be hot or b) have so many fans in it it'll sound like a jet engine taking off. The fact is a laptop runing for several hours will get warm / hot (delete as appropriate based on your own definitions) and if you have it on your lap you WILL feal it. Heck, I've got an old Thinkpad with a P3 in it that'll warm your legs quite nicely and that's hardly a powerhouse machine.
I currently run both a 2Ghz CD Macbook and one of the new 17" SR Macbook Pro's and find that while both run warm neither give me cause for concern. Heck, running the MBP on the mains with Civ 4 going for about five hours under Vista didn't cause any problems so I really doubt it ever will.
Would I like it to run cooler? Yes, absolutley, and it's for this reason that I tend to keep the MBP on a stand when doing any serious work but let's face facts here. With the current generation of processors, GPU's, hard disks and all the other sources of heat in a modern notebook having a desktop replacement that runs cold to the touch just isn't possible unless you stick a ton of fans in the case (or make the case much, much bigger than the current Apple lineup).
That being said I've had the MBP I'm typing this on running for about two hours now in both Vista and OSX and the bottom of the case is reading at 31C. That's easily within the range I'd consider acceptable for a laptop this powerful.
T61 was designed with cooling as the primary objective. The heatsyncs are enormous and as you point out the vents are large and pleantiful to the point that it runs 12% cooler than a T60.
And yes it's their aesthetics (thin notebook, passive cooling) philosophy that is leading to these issues. Realistically I know I'm wasting my breath -- that apple won't change because their client base is non-business. Which is the main reason Lenovo put such a high emphasis on heat reduction as they cater to executives who do very much notice these things.
Now we are getting somewhere. This is where Apple needs to pull there finger out and innovate. They could easily build a 1.5" thick MBP that is as cool as the T61, but they won't. They could build a 1" thick laptop that is half the speed of the T61, but they won't. They need to find a way to have fast and cool and thin to truly hold the innovative crown like they used to. Oh yeah, and build them with higher QC.
there are compromises that can be made to reduce heat. Take the upcomming Viao TZ. It has an optional SSD drive as the sole drive (no heat produced, b/c no moving parts) a 1.0 Ghz processor (U7500) and an LED backlit display yet it's ultra thin (less than an inch). Don't know how hot it runs but a mac pro with integrated 965 video, a U7500 and an SSD drive would run a heck of a lot cooler and they wouldn't have to sacrifice aesthetics (maybe a few more vents in the back).
Cool MBP C2D
I've a MBP C2D 2.33 GHz, it idles at 34C. Under stress it gets to about 55C (3 hours of World of Warcraft @ maximum settings). The hottest I've ever seen it is 59C. I for one don't have a MBP with the issue. Unfortunately some people have encountered problems, but the design when working is not flawed.
I love my laptop. It is in essence, flawless.
I've a MBP C2D 2.33 GHz, it idles at 34C. Under stress it gets to about 55C (3 hours of World of Warcraft @ maximum settings). The hottest I've ever seen it is 59C. I for one don't have a MBP with the issue. Unfortunately some people have encountered problems, but the design when working is not flawed.
I love my laptop. It is in essence, flawless.
Having been through some iBooks, Powerboooks and now on the Macbook Pro, I've got to agree that the build quality has dipped somewhat. It just doesn't feel as sturdy as before. Just compare the trackpad buttons and you'd know what I mean. This is in addition to the purported yellow screen, warped lids, etc.
Perhaps the heat generated by the MBs and the MBPs is in part due to the chip and in part due to the design of the machine, since the design hasn't really changed much to accomodate a dual core as opposed to the days of the G3 and G4, which is only a single processor.
Let's not view a feedback as a complain. I think feeding back to Apple is positive, and they should not ignore such feedback and view them as a complaint.
While I can understand the heat issue, I just can't reconcile with the fact that the QC has somewhat been compromised.
Let us feedback to Apple, so that hopefully they hear us and start to improve.
Perhaps the heat generated by the MBs and the MBPs is in part due to the chip and in part due to the design of the machine, since the design hasn't really changed much to accomodate a dual core as opposed to the days of the G3 and G4, which is only a single processor.
Let's not view a feedback as a complain. I think feeding back to Apple is positive, and they should not ignore such feedback and view them as a complaint.
While I can understand the heat issue, I just can't reconcile with the fact that the QC has somewhat been compromised.
Let us feedback to Apple, so that hopefully they hear us and start to improve.
Perspective
I've had a lot of laptops over the years. The only one that was truly cool running was a Powerbook 540C, way back when. Man I loved that laptop.
Dell 8600 - so hot I sent it back for full refund
Apple TiBook - super hot when under load, loud fan (lasted 6 years!)
HP ZD7000 - P4 desktop chip, 3 loud loud fans that run full speed every 2 minutes. Runs hot all the time no matter what you are doing and to loud to use in public.
Acer 8104 - 96-102C under load, heat radiates thru trackpad making your fingers sweat. Loud fan exhausts heat right on to my left leg.
Dell D410 - cool quiet underpowered junk. Area around fan gets too hot to touch even with the CPU never going over 68C. Exhausts heat onto left leg.
Dell M70 - runs relatively cool with fairly quiet fans, but the bottom surface still gets too hot to use in lap. Docking station blocks fan vents heating the unit up quite a bit.
Based on my experiences with laptops my MBP does not seem too out of the ordinary.
I've had a lot of laptops over the years. The only one that was truly cool running was a Powerbook 540C, way back when. Man I loved that laptop.
Dell 8600 - so hot I sent it back for full refund
Apple TiBook - super hot when under load, loud fan (lasted 6 years!)
HP ZD7000 - P4 desktop chip, 3 loud loud fans that run full speed every 2 minutes. Runs hot all the time no matter what you are doing and to loud to use in public.
Acer 8104 - 96-102C under load, heat radiates thru trackpad making your fingers sweat. Loud fan exhausts heat right on to my left leg.
Dell D410 - cool quiet underpowered junk. Area around fan gets too hot to touch even with the CPU never going over 68C. Exhausts heat onto left leg.
Dell M70 - runs relatively cool with fairly quiet fans, but the bottom surface still gets too hot to use in lap. Docking station blocks fan vents heating the unit up quite a bit.
Based on my experiences with laptops my MBP does not seem too out of the ordinary.
My post were just pulled from Apples site. If you are thinking about a MacBook Pro look at this thread
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=986785&tstart=0
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=986785&tstart=0
I bet if everyone with a new MacBook Pro started using the computer on battery power over a wireless network this would happen to them.
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=986785&tstart=0
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=986785&tstart=0
I didn't get any problem using it with my 2Wire wireless modem with WPA either....
However, I've gotten a kernel panic while using Safari last week, although it is just once and hopefully, will ot come back to haunt me later....
However, I've gotten a kernel panic while using Safari last week, although it is just once and hopefully, will ot come back to haunt me later....
wow that is crazy!!! max of 59... mines actually sitting on 56 right now (100% CPU) i do have a fan doovie underneath it tho. it would be good is mactops stayed cool, but im happy with it being an awsomely powered machine
You're post was reasonable until the end here. Apple's "crap philosophy" has carried them more than 30 years now. I'm not a soccer mom, and I am more than satisfied with the design and engineering of all the Macs I have here (including a MacBook Pro).
Saying Apple has it's head "up it's ass" is hardly fair or reasonable. Apple can build computers however thin and however quiet they want to. If you look at polls on this site asking about product quality, you'll find more than 90% of responses are positive. You say you were worried about the temperature, fiddling with fan control software and such. Why don't you just leave it alone? Stop trying to hack fan speeds and just use the machine as Apple intended. Did anything actually go wrong? Even if it were to at some point, you're under warranty, so why are you so worried? But it probably won't, as nearly all MacBook Pros manufactured perform well and provide their owners with a satisfying and productive computer work.
Apple is not accountable to you or anyone. Don't fool yourself into thinking that complaining about something trivial and based entirely on your perceptions at an online forum is going to "change" anything. They are not required to build hardware exactly as you see fit. If you don't like it, then you made the right choice buying something else. Some of us do not have the same values as you.
I'd rather have a thin quiet laptop that runs hot than a huge loud laptop that runs cool, ok? So leave my MacBooks alone.
Apple pays attention when people like me vote with their wallets. This causes change. And they most definately do have their head up their ass. The computing segment is languishing while steveo diddles with the gimped iphone.
Having spent over $10k on apple products over the years I feel that I have a right to voice my concerns about the quality of their products as my concerns are constructive -- meaning if it weren't for quality issues I'd be buying a MBP.
If you're happy with your purchase fine, but don't try to silence legitimate debate. I never get how people can't tolerate diverging opinions. Is it a threat to your delicate sensibilites? Or is this a by product of the feminization of our culture that there must be uniform consensus above all else and any individual expression leads to social banishment? Pathetic.
And they are buying massive quantities of Apple products.
Apple devoting development effort to a new product (or anything else they want to) doesn't mean they have their "heads up their asses." What does that even mean?
Exactly, that is how you voice you concerns. Not with ridiculous diatribe like Apple "has their head up their asses" and are full of "bull****" and are "tailored to soccer moms" and have "crap philosophy." Do you even know what you're talking about? What does any of that even mean? You're dissatisfied with how much heat the MacBook Pro creates (even though a huge majority of people have no actual problems) and suddenly Apple spews forth cow manure from every crevice?
This has entirely nothing to do with silencing opinion, but rather silencing annoying and unconstructive rants about Apple bull**** and "feminist culture" such as yours posted to a forum that I am very active on. People here aren't mad at you for being dissatisfied. People just don't want to hear the garbage that's coming out of your virtual mouth.
Pathetic.
I don't care why you're doing it, you admit you are attempting to silence me. This is what I'm taking exception to. If you don't like my points ARGUE the opposite view, don't tell me to shut up. This is what feminization is all about: silencing dissenting opinion.
I really don't care how long you've been on this forum, that doesn't really qualify your opinions as being in any way valid, especially in light of the fact that I was seated in front of an Apple keyboard when your mommie was still wiping your ass.
However, I will elaborate for the sake of argument on my point aboiut Apple having their head up their ass:
They are no longer called Apple computer corporation -- they have diversified into ipods, iphones, itunes, iteevee -- all this at the detriment of their computing segment in both innovation and quality control. This is demonstrated by all the engineers who have been pulled off other projects to get the iphone working. Engineers who might have been working on Leopard, or better hardware.
This leads to longer refresh cycles and lower quality all around. It's called deprioritization. The end result is sub-standard MBPs which is why I address the "philosophical" problem of the company -- specifically what they place emphasis on and why (form over function).
If it weren't for the fact that I highly esteem and enjoy OSX I wouldn't care what they did, nor would I waste my time posting this thread.
Nonsense
You are correct that those who "constructively points out legitimate problems" can be helpful in pressuring a company to change. However none of your posts qualify as constructive. They are bashing a product that many consider to be the best on the market. Obviously you do not agree, which is fine. If you want to make your criticism constructive, please outline the activities you are doing, the length of time you spend doing them, the environment you are working in and the results. If possible give comparative information from a competitive brand. You making vulgar generalities solves nothing. I personally have been using Apple systems with virtually no problems for some time. I currently own two Apple laptops which have served me quite well and have not had overheating issues. They are a powerbook and a Core 2 Duo Macbook pro. As a software developer I push my machines hard all day long. While occasionally they get warm and the fans do crank up hard, it is rarely long before the machine cools back down again.
You would likely label me an Apple "fan boy". I do like Apple, but have used many competitive products from other vendors, running windows and linux. I have never used a system that was as well designed and built as my Apple machines. I am a longtime Linux user and am still a big fan, but have come to love the combination of the power of Unix under OSX and the top quality user interface on top. With Linux I had the power, but lacked the polished interface.
So, my last piece of advice: If you want anyone to take your complaints seriously, grow up, drop the vulgarity and give some constructive criticism. We would all love to see Apple products become even better than they already are.
You are correct that those who "constructively points out legitimate problems" can be helpful in pressuring a company to change. However none of your posts qualify as constructive. They are bashing a product that many consider to be the best on the market. Obviously you do not agree, which is fine. If you want to make your criticism constructive, please outline the activities you are doing, the length of time you spend doing them, the environment you are working in and the results. If possible give comparative information from a competitive brand. You making vulgar generalities solves nothing. I personally have been using Apple systems with virtually no problems for some time. I currently own two Apple laptops which have served me quite well and have not had overheating issues. They are a powerbook and a Core 2 Duo Macbook pro. As a software developer I push my machines hard all day long. While occasionally they get warm and the fans do crank up hard, it is rarely long before the machine cools back down again.
You would likely label me an Apple "fan boy". I do like Apple, but have used many competitive products from other vendors, running windows and linux. I have never used a system that was as well designed and built as my Apple machines. I am a longtime Linux user and am still a big fan, but have come to love the combination of the power of Unix under OSX and the top quality user interface on top. With Linux I had the power, but lacked the polished interface.
So, my last piece of advice: If you want anyone to take your complaints seriously, grow up, drop the vulgarity and give some constructive criticism. We would all love to see Apple products become even better than they already are.
Yep- tell me about it. I get the same crap because I want a true portable laptop with a real video card that's made from something more durable than aluminum. I'm keeping my iBook G4 til Apple gives me what I want. I know I may be waiting a long time, if not forever. But I refuse to buy a computer that doesn't satisfy my needs.
Once again, you've completely misread or ignored what I posted. I am not "silencing; your opinion, just your language and manner of conveying it. Also, several posters (including myself) have argued the opposite point, including pointing out that you didn't actually experience any hardware failure or reduction of performance. We also explained that ~95% of MacBook owners have machines that work perfectly fine. You're basing all of this entirely on your comfort levels with the amount of heat produced.
This is just a perfect example of what I'm talking about.
Another perfect example.
So what does this have to do with sticking heads in asses? They're diversifying their product offerings, and perhaps not making Computer updates as quickly as they used to. I agree, and would like to see more focus on the Macintosh myself. But I still don't see where the head/ass analogy comes into play here. They're not "screwing" anybody over. You just don't like their current offerings. Great. Buy something else.
You just said the reason was because they're over-diversifying, and now you're changed to "form over function." Make up your mind.
Besides, MacBook Pros are exactly the same thickness as PowerBook G4s, and PowerBook G4s seemed to be just fine, so I don't really think it's exactly a matter of form over function. I think it's just a matter of the CPUs running a little hot. As others have stated, all thin Core 2 Duo notebooks seem to run hot, including those from other manufacturers. Did this actually have any detrimental effect on the performance of your machine? Why does it bother you so much?
I think you've wasted a lot of your own time over a little heat.
FPS in WoW Maxed
I get 30-50 frames outside. 68-90 inside. The only thing I turn off is Vsync. With it on, I get 30-60 everywhere.
I get 30-50 frames outside. 68-90 inside. The only thing I turn off is Vsync. With it on, I get 30-60 everywhere.