Best cooling option for Mac Pro 4.1

[misanthrophy]

Hi,

I am currently upgrading my Mac Pro to a very high performance regarding CPU, RAM, GPU, SSD etc. on a budget of ~2000$ in total so far.

So far my Setup:
Mac Pro 4.1 flashed to 5.1
Running macOS High Sierra 10.13.6
2 x 3,46 GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon
64 GB 1333 MHz DDR3
Nvidia GeForce GTX Titan X
24TB HDD on Raid5 with Work Stuff
256GB SSD NVMe for System

So far so good. Everything works, I can boot from my SSD, etc.

But my main task with the Mac Pro is editing RAW files, rendering Videos and and transcoding videos.

For example when I am running HandBreak to encode Video Files, it uses all 12 Cores of my 2 Intel Xeon CPU's. The temperature with automatic fan speed is between 70-100Celsius. So therefore I need to manually increase the fanspeed, which makes the MP super loud.

As I don't know what the best cooling option is, I want to ask here.

Would Water Cooling lower the temperature, do I need another HeatSink and not the Stock HeadSink?

As long as it is affordable, I want the BEST cooling option improve the performance and temperatures.

Thanks in advance, for any help or hints in the right direction.

 

[bsbeamer]

Some of the best cooling solutions involve using a PCIe expansion box (or PCIe extender) to move the GPU outside of the tower. Not always cheap, but very effective since this is usually one of the biggest heat generators.

Is your Titan X being powered internally or externally?

 

[AlexMaximus]

Hi,

I am currently upgrading my Mac Pro to a maxed out configuration regarding CPU, RAM, GPU, SSD etc.

So far my Setup:
Mac Pro 4.1 flashed to 5.1
Running macOS High Sierra 10.13.6
2 x 3,46 GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon
64 GB 1333 MHz DDR3
Nvidia GeForce GTX Titan X
24TB HDD on Raid5 with Work Stuff
256GB SSD NVMe for System

So far so good. Everything works, I can boot from my SSD, etc.

But my main task with the Mac Pro is editing RAW files, rendering Videos and and transcoding videos.

For example when I am running HandBreak to encode Video Files, it uses all 12 Cores of my 2 Intel Xeon CPU's. The temperature with automatic fan speed is between 70-100Celsius. So therefore I need to manually increase the fanspeed, which makes the MP super loud.

As I don't know what the best cooling option is, I want to ask here.

Would Water Cooling lower the temperature, do I need another HeatSink and not the Stock HeadSink?

As long as it is affordable, I want the BEST cooling option improve the performance and temperatures.

Thanks in advance, for any help or hints in the right direction.

Not many people here at this forum are into hybrid cooling their mac. So far I could not find many.
Below you can watch the only YouTube available that shows the Hybrid Cooler from EVGA on the exact same card you have. They used to have Hybrid cooler upgrade kits to retrofit standard cards. However, they are selling out fast.
On the CPU side, I think it might be more tricky because of possible non-standard mounting holes.
Corsair is usually the brand to go when it comes to custom solutions like that. I planned to upgrade my GTX 980Ti at one time, but I am not sure how reliable those systems are on the long run. Will they last 5 years?
It would be for sure interesting. I am sure a hybrid cooler shaves off at least 25° of your heat load.
What is your focus CPU or GPU or both of them? Whats your cost limit?

GPU

CPU (MP3.1)

 

[h9826790]

Hi,

I am currently upgrading my Mac Pro to a maxed out configuration regarding CPU, RAM, GPU, SSD etc.

So far my Setup:
Mac Pro 4.1 flashed to 5.1
Running macOS High Sierra 10.13.6
2 x 3,46 GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon
64 GB 1333 MHz DDR3
Nvidia GeForce GTX Titan X
24TB HDD on Raid5 with Work Stuff
256GB SSD NVMe for System

So far so good. Everything works, I can boot from my SSD, etc.

But my main task with the Mac Pro is editing RAW files, rendering Videos and and transcoding videos.

For example when I am running HandBreak to encode Video Files, it uses all 12 Cores of my 2 Intel Xeon CPU's. The temperature with automatic fan speed is between 70-100Celsius. So therefore I need to manually increase the fanspeed, which makes the MP super loud.

As I don't know what the best cooling option is, I want to ask here.

Would Water Cooling lower the temperature, do I need another HeatSink and not the Stock HeadSink?

As long as it is affordable, I want the BEST cooling option improve the performance and temperatures.

Thanks in advance, for any help or hints in the right direction.

70-100C? That's definitely NOT normal. I owned a dual processor tray, but I never use it, and of course I never upgrade that tray's CPU as well. So, can't tell exactly how the native fan profile reach to a dual 130W CPU setup. But they should never reach 100C on a cMP. Even 90C is consider very high. The automatic fan profile should keep them at around 85C max.

Are you sure your CPU thermal paste application is good? Also, what's your actual fan speed and temperature? It will be much easier for us to analysis if you can post few screen capture of the fan speed and temperatures. (e.g. By using MacsFanControl)

Anyway, your cMP still quite a bit from maxed out. e.g. You can upgrade to 160GB RAM, and 4x 2TB 970 Pro on a HighPoint SSD7101A card, And further upgrade to Titan Xp (Pascal), etc.

Yes, I know those are crazy upgrade, and may bring little to no benefit for your work, but...literally, your cMP is not maxed out yet.

 

[Matty_TypeR]

70-100C? That's definitely NOT normal. I owned a dual processor tray, but I never use it, and of course I never upgrade that tray's CPU as well. So, can't tell exactly how the native fan profile reach to a dual 130W CPU setup. But they should never reach 100C on a cMP. Even 90C is consider very high. The automatic fan profile should keep them at around 85C max.

Are you sure your CPU thermal paste application is good? Also, what's your actual fan speed and temperature? It will be much easier for us to analysis if you can post few screen capture of the fan speed and temperatures. (e.g. By using MacsFanControl)

Anyway, your cMP still quite a bit from maxed out. e.g. You can upgrade to 160GB RAM, and 4x 2TB 970 Pro on a HighPoint SSD7101A card, And further upgrade to Titan Xp (Pascal), etc.

Yes, I know those are crazy upgrade, and may bring little to no benefit for your work, but...literally, your cMP is not maxed out yet.

I think there must be some thing wrong there, either the cpu heatsinks are not seated correctly or application of thermal paste has been bad or even a poor thermal paste. that is way to hot and thermal throttling will occur and possible damage to CPU's.

I would remove heatsinks from CPU's and check you are getting good contact to base of heatsink, also its a flashed 4.1 to 5.1 and will use delided cpus or spacers for the ICH on the CPU to get good contact. that is very hot!

 

[misanthrophy]

70-100C? That's definitely NOT normal. I owned a dual processor tray, but I never use it, and of course I never upgrade that tray's CPU as well. So, can't tell exactly how the native fan profile reach to a dual 130W CPU setup. But they should never reach 100C on a cMP. Even 90C is consider very high. The automatic fan profile should keep them at around 85C max.

Are you sure your CPU thermal paste application is good? Also, what's your actual fan speed and temperature? It will be much easier for us to analysis if you can post few screen capture of the fan speed and temperatures. (e.g. By using MacsFanControl)

Anyway, your cMP still quite a bit from maxed out. e.g. You can upgrade to 160GB RAM, and 4x 2TB 970 Pro on a HighPoint SSD7101A card, And further upgrade to Titan Xp (Pascal), etc.

Yes, I know those are crazy upgrade, and may bring little to no benefit for your work, but...literally, your cMP is not maxed out yet.

Yea the Liquid Metal was not added perfectly on CPU A (100C), after redoing it, it goes up to 80-85C, so now I am okay.
Right now with no intense task, so somehow in idle mode I am at 37-45C.

Yea I am planning on using the Amfeltec 4Bay with the 970Pro.
160GB RAM? But macOS only supports 96? Does single 20GB Sticks exist?

Mhmm I am not 100% maxed out with my config, thats true. But right now I only spent less than 2000$ for all together, MP, RAM, CPU, GPU, SSD, etc. So I think for the money I spent, I reached the maximum, haha.

I will check now with Noctua, they provide very good CPU/GPU cooling systems. Let's see, if I can lower the temperatures and get a quiter MP too.

PS: Right now my CPU's are at:
CPU A Tiode 45C
CPU B Tiode 38C
Fans Spinning between 500-1000RPM

 

[Matty_TypeR]

Yea the Liquid Metal was not added perfectly on CPU A (100C), after redoing it, it goes up to 80-85C, so now I am okay.
Right now with no intense task, so somehow in idle mode I am at 37-45C.

Yea I am planning on using the Amfeltec 4Bay with the 970Pro.
160GB RAM? But macOS only supports 96? Does single 20GB Sticks exist?

Mhmm I am not 100% maxed out with my config, thats true. But right now I only spent less than 2000$ for all together, MP, RAM, CPU, GPU, SSD, etc. So I think for the money I spent, I reached the maximum, haha.

I will check now with Noctua, they provide very good CPU/GPU cooling systems. Let's see, if I can lower the temperatures and get a quiter MP too.

PS: Right now my CPU's are at:
CPU A Tiode 45C
CPU B Tiode 38C
Fans Spinning between 500-1000RPM

Liquid metal although a good thermal compound is very sensitive to application, unless your very proficient at application I would steer clear of liquid metal, if you spill any or over apply and it leaks into CPU base it will fry your CPU board. I would use thermal grizzly thermal paste as its non conductive and will offer just as good thermal transfere and much better than AS5 or alike. another good thermal paste in artic ceramic thermal paste.

my CPU's are

 

[h9826790]

Yea the Liquid Metal was not added perfectly on CPU A (100C), after redoing it, it goes up to 80-85C, so now I am okay.
Right now with no intense task, so somehow in idle mode I am at 37-45C.

Yea I am planning on using the Amfeltec 4Bay with the 970Pro.
160GB RAM? But macOS only supports 96? Does single 20GB Sticks exist?

Mhmm I am not 100% maxed out with my config, thats true. But right now I only spent less than 2000$ for all together, MP, RAM, CPU, GPU, SSD, etc. So I think for the money I spent, I reached the maximum, haha.

I will check now with Noctua, they provide very good CPU/GPU cooling systems. Let's see, if I can lower the temperatures and get a quiter MP too.

PS: Right now my CPU's are at:
CPU A Tiode 45C
CPU B Tiode 38C
Fans Spinning between 500-1000RPM

I never say use 20GB DIMM.

Anyway, since Yosemite, you can run 160GB RAM.

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...ac-pro-late-2013.1698707/page-6#post-21436809

10.13.6 definitely can do that. 96GB was the limit long long time ago.

80-85C is the normal range for the native fan profile.

Idle temperature doesn't mean much. You better run Handbrake again (at least 15min) and capture the temperature and fans speed. But anyway, it seems your problem is solved.

 

[misanthrophy]

Liquid metal although a good thermal compound is very sensitive to application, unless your very proficient at application I would steer clear of liquid metal, if you spill any or over apply and it leaks into CPU base it will fry your CPU board. I would use thermal grizzly thermal paste as its non conductive and will offer just as good thermal transfere and much better than AS5 or alike. another good thermal paste in artic ceramic thermal paste.

my CPU's are



Okay which Grizzly Thermal Paste are you using? I found a few different ones.

I was using Liquid Metal, because many other people wrote, that should be the best option. :-/

Okay, my System runs approx. 10C higher than yours with the same setting. Do you keep the setting all the time like this? What if you run some high intense task, is then the constant RPM for PCI, EXHAUST & INTAKE enough?

Thanks for your help!

I never say use 20GB DIMM.

Anyway, since Yosemite, you can run 160GB RAM.

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...ac-pro-late-2013.1698707/page-6#post-21436809

10.13.6 definitely can do that. 96GB was the limit long long time ago.

80-85C is the normal range for the native fan profile.

Idle temperature doesn't mean much. You better run Handbrake again (at least 15min) and capture the temperature and fans speed. But anyway, it seems your problem is solved.

Okay and how should I add 160GB in 8 slots? That means 20GB for each slot. I am only aware of 16GB Modules, not higher.

Yea when Handbreak was running for 1-2hours it went only up to 80C maximum.

 

[h9826790]

Okay and how should I add 160GB in 8 slots? That means 20GB for each slot. I am only aware of 16GB Modules, not higher.

Yea when Handbreak was running for 1-2hours it went only up to 80C maximum.

If you ever read the link, that's 32GBx5

 

[misanthrophy]

If you ever read the link, that's 32GBx5

Okay, one module costs almost 400$, that means only the memory would cost the same as everything else together :-/

 

[h9826790]

Okay, one module costs almost 400$, that means only the memory would cost the same as everything else together :-/

It cost me about 30s to find some $100 32GB DDR3 PC3L-12800R ECC RDIMM on world.taobao.com. Of course, that may not be a good source for you,

 

[Matty_TypeR]

Okay, one module costs almost 400$, that means only the memory would cost the same as everything else together :-/

The price you pay for large 32g ram modules I am afraid, do you really need all that ram? and remember the larger to module of ram the slower it is, its all about ram timings and larger modules get slower timings. unless you really need all that ram which I doubt, you will only be slowing your system down. 3 ram slots on each CPU is optimum performance due to the 3 channel memory controller. so 3 sticks is faster than 4 sticks. 96g of 6 X 16g offers the best performance price ratio.

 

[h9826790]

The price you pay for large 32g ram modules I am afraid, do you really need all that ram? and remember the larger to module of ram the slower it is, its all about ram timings and larger modules get slower timings. unless you really need all that ram which I doubt, you will only be slowing your system down. 3 ram slots on each CPU is optimum performance due to the 3 channel memory controller. so 3 sticks is faster than 4 sticks. 96g of 6 X 16g offers the best performance price ratio.

Don't worry, we just discuss about what is real max out on a cMP.

I don't think OP really want to go that way.

 

[misanthrophy]

It cost me about 30s to find some $100 32GB DDR3 PC3L-12800R ECC RDIMM on world.taobao.com. Of course, that may not be a good source for you,

I do not understand anything from the website. I mainly searched in EU/US shops, because I am based in Germany. DuckDuckGo did not showed me that webpage, when I searched for it.

Is this a legit shop? Can I change somehow the language?
[doublepost=1535139387][/doublepost]Overall I am happy with my 64GB so far, getting 160GB is at the end just to pose around, haha.

I guess with only spending 2000$ so far I got the maximum performance so far and I am happy with that.

 

[h9826790]

I do not understand anything from the website. I mainly searched in EU/US shops, because I am based in Germany. DuckDuckGo did not showed me that webpage, when I searched for it.

Is this a legit shop? Can I change somehow the language?
[doublepost=1535139387][/doublepost]Overall I am happy with my 64GB so far, getting 160GB is at the end just to pose around, haha.

I guess with only spending 2000$ so far I got the maximum performance so far and I am happy with that.

taobao.com is like the Chinese version of amazon.com

TBH, one of the best online shopping platform for Hong Kong people. But I don't expect any western country people can use that easily.

 

[misanthrophy]

Is it normal, that CPU A ist constantly 5C hotter than CPU B? Doesn't matter if in idle mode (38C vs. 33C) or heavy load (68C vs. 63C).

I had this with the original CPU's 2x 2,66GHz and old thermal paste and now with the new ones 2x 3,46GHz and new thermal paste.

Some people on other Threads said, thats because of the NorthBridge, but I have also seen screenshots where both CPU's had an almost similar temperature.

 

[h9826790]

Is it normal, that CPU A ist constantly 5C hotter than CPU B? Doesn't matter if in idle mode (38C vs. 33C) or heavy load (68C vs. 63C).

I had this with the original CPU's 2x 2,66GHz and old thermal paste and now with the new ones 2x 3,46GHz and new thermal paste.

Some people on other Threads said, thats because of the NorthBridge, but I have also seen screenshots where both CPU's had an almost similar temperature.

Better than normal.

68C under heavy load is very cool indeed.

 

[misanthrophy]

Better than normal.

68C under heavy load is very cool indeed.

Oh nice, that is good to hear.

Thats my MacsFanControl profile of running Handbreak for almost 2 hours and playing around with other sensor based triggers for PSU etc.

 

[CapnDavey]

The freezer case at Walmart would be my best guess hehe

 

[misanthrophy]

So I just played around a little bit with MacsFanControl to see what happens.

I increased the INTAKE and EXHAUST RPM to the maximum and immediately the temps from both CPU's went down and the heatsinks ran at a much lower RPM. That makes sense as both fans are "in line" with the heatsinks in between and therefore they are cooling them too.

I am not an expert at all, so I need your advice:

1. Do I have an advantage of increasing the fan speed of intake and exhaust while lowering the heatsink ones?
2. Is there a difference in power consumption between heatsink and the other two fans?
3. Should all 4 "fans" work at the same level or two of them more than the other ones?

In another thread someone changed the intake and exhaust fans with Noctua ones, but as they are not controllable by the system because the 4th pin is not PWM but controlled by the voltage, they run at max speed. But as long as they stay pretty silent in full speed mode, would that "resolve" my wish to keep my x5690 as cool as possible in an unintended manner? Or is it not save to run fans all the time in full speed regarding their lifetime?

 

[misanthrophy]

So after hours of testing and running Handbreak encoding .h264 files I have a stady system. I am just not completely happy, because as long the PSU runs over 1000RPM the Mac Pro is noisy...
Is your PSU fan also the loudest one in the system? Would you say I can savely decrease the PSU fan and leave the PSMI Supply AC/DC Supply 2 over 40C?
I've read somewhere else, that the best temperature is between 35-40C to not shorten the life of the capacitors inside the PSU.

So key temperatures:

CPU A diode 65-66C
CPU B diode 57-58C
IOHdiode 61-62C
PSMI Supply AC/DC Supply 2 37-38C

 

[Matty_TypeR]

So after hours of testing and running Handbreak encoding .h264 files I have a stady system. I am just not completely happy, because as long the PSU runs over 1000RPM the Mac Pro is noisy...
Is your PSU fan also the loudest one in the system? Would you say I can savely decrease the PSU fan and leave the PSMI Supply AC/DC Supply 2 over 40C?
I've read somewhere else, that the best temperature is between 35-40C to not shorten the life of the capacitors inside the PSU.

So key temperatures:

CPU A diode 65-66C
CPU B diode 57-58C
IOHdiode 61-62C
PSMI Supply AC/DC Supply 2 37-38C

The only thing I would note from your Mac fan control setup is boosta fan A at 2317 is quite high to maintain CPU A 8c higher than CPU B with a boosta fan setting of 800 to me that doesn't seem right at all. you always get about 2c difference between CPU A and CPU B what are your idle temps?

 

[misanthrophy]

The only thing I would note from your Mac fan control setup is boosta fan A at 2317 is quite high to maintain CPU A 8c higher than CPU B with a boosta fan setting of 800 to me that doesn't seem right at all. you always get about 2c difference between CPU A and CPU B what are your idle temps?

Even in idle there is a difference of 3C to 5C from CPU A to CPU B

As CPU B is always "a lot" cooler than CPU A, I have the fan settings much higher than for CPU A, when they spin up.

my Northbridge is constantly above 60C, so maybe the thermal paste is no longer the best one. (But as many other people mentioned in other threads CPU A seems to be higher because it receives the heat from the NB heatsink and needs to compensate that.

I GUESS, because INTAKE fan in front blows cold air directly through CPU B, CPU B fan does not need to work as it gets automatically cooled down. And as the EXHAUST fan behind CPU A blows out the warm air it does not assist cooling down the CPU A.

Not sure if it would be good to change the fan direction so that Exhaust fan blows in through CPU A, Northbridge and CPU B and INTAKE blows out the warm air in front of the case.

The screenshot below is about half an hour after Handbreak finished the job and after a reboot of the MP without doing anything.

 

[handheldgames]

Even in idle there is a difference of 3C to 5C from CPU A to CPU B

As CPU B is always "a lot" cooler than CPU A, I have the fan settings much higher than for CPU A, when they spin up.

my Northbridge is constantly above 60C, so maybe the thermal paste is no longer the best one. (But as many other people mentioned in other threads CPU A seems to be higher because it receives the heat from the NB heatsink and needs to compensate that.

I GUESS, because INTAKE fan in front blows cold air directly through CPU B, CPU B fan does not need to work as it gets automatically cooled down. And as the EXHAUST fan behind CPU A blows out the warm air it does not assist cooling down the CPU A.

Not sure if it would be good to change the fan direction so that Exhaust fan blows in through CPU A, Northbridge and CPU B and INTAKE blows out the warm air in front of the case.

The screenshot below is about half an hour after Handbreak finished the job and after a reboot of the MP without doing anything.

Compared to your last results, the new temps look good.