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Apple fanboy

macrumors Ivy Bridge
Feb 21, 2012
57,003
56,026
Behind the Lens, UK
I responded to this thread 3 years ago. :eek:

Since then, I gave my son an old Canon t2i with some lenses to use as he wanted a camera(and gave me back my stuff). He ultimately decided on the D7100. There is no right answer. It used to be Nikon for the sensor and Canon for the glass; not sure how true that is anymore. Any system one ultimately picks is a good system, there are no bad choices.
True. It's just a matter of taste.
 
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mofunk

macrumors 68020
Aug 26, 2009
2,421
161
Americas
I have the D7100 and D750. Controls are pretty much the same.
I still use the D7100. Mostly with my 200-500 for extra reach.

Yeah I was really impressed.


I responded to this thread 3 years ago. :eek:

Since then, I gave my son an old Canon t2i with some lenses to use as he wanted a camera(and gave me back my stuff). He ultimately decided on the D7100. There is no right answer. It used to be Nikon for the sensor and Canon for the glass; not sure how true that is anymore. Any system one ultimately picks is a good system, there are no bad choices.

You are so right. It's like a car, anyone will get you from A to B. It just depends on which on you want to drive. And the one that fits your needs. I didn't choose Canon because I don't like their Menu screen. At first glance it gave me a headache. lol
 
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bunnspecial

macrumors G3
May 3, 2014
8,353
6,495
Kentucky
It used to be Nikon for the sensor and Canon for the glass;

I'd flip that around.

Canon embraced and improved CMOS sensors pretty much from the get-go, while Nikon stubbornly clung to CCDs well past their prime. They even tried their hand at developing their own proprietary sensor(LB-CAST) which was by pretty much any much any measure a miserable failure. The 4mp LBCAST sensor in the D2H was as noisy as the 12mp CMOS in the D2X, had less dynamic range, and introduced weird color artifacts when the channels "clipped."

Canon has always been a camera company, and Nikon has always been an optics company. I say that not to disparage either, but just to say that Nikkor optics have some well deserved reverence. The first Canon(Kwanon) cameras used Nikon(Nipon Kogaku) lenses-Canon only had to start designing lenses when Nikon decided to make cameras and shut off supplying lenses to them(although they made lenses for others-the Bronica S2A I had mostly had Nikkor optics). Nikon microscopes and other non-photographic optical instruments are still a big part of their business.

By the time of the first commercial viable DSLRs, both companies made great optics, but Nikon also had a big legacy history behind them. Canon WAS always ready to experiment with new or exotic techniques like fluorite elements(something they were doing in the 80s but which Nikon only recently did) and mass production aspherics. Nikon did start pushing ED glass in the 80s-something which solved the same problem as fluorite(CA in telephotos) while being both more durable and dimensionally stable, but at a significant weight penalty. BTW, the red "L" band on Canons originally signified either exotic optics(asperical or fluorite) while big teles were white to help reduce the thermal expansion of fluorite in the sun(something that was noticed as a real problem in the black/green band fluorite lenses). BTW, Nikon also use to use a gold band to indicate ED-now it's hit or miss as to whether it's there, and instead the gold band seems to mostly mean "high end lens here"(cheaper lenses have foil or paint, while the more expensive ones actually have it inlaid).

Now, Nikon throws ED glass in everything including $100 kit zooms. Canon has similar technology but doesn't advertise it. Molded and/or hybrid aspherical elements(as opposed to hand-ground) are also common in both company's lenses.

On the whole, I'd put their glass quality about equal. If you want really good manual focus lenses, Nikon is the only realistic choice. Both companies make certain lenses that don't have an equivalent in the other brand, or at least the closest comparable option isn't nearly as good.

One other thing worth mentioning-Canon seems to run a couple of years ahead on adding certain technologies vs. Nikon. IS/VR is the example that comes to mind, but also the ring ultrasonic focus motor. Canon has had stepper motor lenses for a while, while the number of Nikon ones is limited, although I don't necessarily consider that an advantage. The EF mount was designed to be very "forward thinking" and is totally electronic, while the F mount has been modified extensively over the years to the point where only now is it all electronic on a handful of lenses(although all cameras still retain the stop down lever). Canon has always used in-lens motors, while Nikon initially only used them for super-teles. Nikon manages to get pretty impressive AF speeds with in-body motors on some cameras(I'd put the F5, D1 series, and D2 series as kings here, with an advantage to the F5 in terms of sheer torque and an advantage to the D2 in terms of a lot of torque combined with a better AF module) but it's loud. In-lens motors are now ubiquitous and only lacking in the current line-up in some fairly old designs-they're common enough that Nikon has been leaving in-body AF motors out of low end consumer DSLRs for 10 years now. Leaving out EF-S lenses, every EOS mount lens is fully backward and forward compatible with every EOS camera.

Nikon's lens compatibility is a disaster. Leaving out the pre-AI/AI distinction, some lenses are crippled on certain bodies. Legacy compatibility has been eroding for years. I could take the 14mm f/2.8(introduced around 2000) and with a small, officially supported factory modification(supported to the point that Nikon marks the place to drill holes for it to be done) I could have it meter on a Nikon F. Even without metering, it's functionally fine. Not to long ago, I modified my 180mm f/2.8 to do just that(a previous owner had also done and undone it, but the drilled and tapped holes on the aperture ring gave it away). On the same Nikon F, the new AF-P 70-300 f/4.5-5.6 will only work wide open at infinity. I think my D800 is the only camera that can focus it-even manually. On the other hand, let's say you're a D3500 user and want to buy the 105mm f/2 DC for portraits-not only do you have to manually focus it, but you also don't get any metering on this camera.
 
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ChrisA

macrumors G5
Jan 5, 2006
12,919
2,172
Redondo Beach, California
Oops, sorry!
[doublepost=1524267925][/doublepost]

Thanks Chris, what brand do you use out of curiosity?

I have Nikon brand SLR. The one that I use the most is a D300s I still have some lenses and a couple bodies left over from the manual focus film era. I've sold off a lot of older gear because my eyes no longer are good enough for manual focus. I find I use the 60mm macro, 35mm 1.8 and the 18-140 VR zoom.

But what I found out years ago, it you want photos that look good and catch people's attention that camera hardly matters. What DOES matter is your collection of lighting gear. Itry and use my larger video "soft boxes" for any sho I can. They need to be at least 3 get wide to work well. I have a very old power pack style strobe system too, then for outdoors, Thin white nylon fabric for softening sunlight. If you can control the light you can use and old iPhone camera. The camera and the lens is a to less important then the light. Liting gear has dropped dramatically in price in the last few years.
 
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bunnspecial

macrumors G3
May 3, 2014
8,353
6,495
Kentucky
Liting gear has dropped dramatically in price in the last few years.

My total investment in Norman gear is under $1K and I have enough to light up a factory...

Of course, having it and knowing how to use it are two different things. I do a fair bit of macro photography-specifically on watches-and can consistently get GOOD images. Occasionally, I hit on something that I would consider GREAT, and as I've practiced my hit rate has become a lot better.

On that subject, a pro photographer friend who is also a watch collector has given me a lot of advice. He is someone who consistently is able to take GREAT images. Many folks, in their quest to get good images, will go all out with soft lighting. Light tents are popular. What my friend woke me up to, though, was the fact that you need to throw in a bit of hard lighting to really get details to "pop."

Here's an example.

This first one was taken with a pair of overhead softboxes. The left one was fired at lower power, but was also a fair bit smaller than the right one.

0z0u017h.jpg


This photo of the same watch was taken with two shoot-through umbrellas overhead. The left one was again lower powered, but the difference here was that I had a third light also off to the left(at the same power level as the left umbrella) essentially level with the watch and with a 16" reflector on it. I feel like this "catches" details significantly better, although there's still a lot of room for improvement in this.

_DSC2343-1 copy.jpg
 

Alexander.Of.Oz

macrumors 68040
Oct 29, 2013
3,200
12,501
My total investment in Norman gear is under $1K and I have enough to light up a factory...

Of course, having it and knowing how to use it are two different things. I do a fair bit of macro photography-specifically on watches-and can consistently get GOOD images. Occasionally, I hit on something that I would consider GREAT, and as I've practiced my hit rate has become a lot better.

On that subject, a pro photographer friend who is also a watch collector has given me a lot of advice. He is someone who consistently is able to take GREAT images. Many folks, in their quest to get good images, will go all out with soft lighting. Light tents are popular. What my friend woke me up to, though, was the fact that you need to throw in a bit of hard lighting to really get details to "pop."

Here's an example.

This first one was taken with a pair of overhead softboxes. The left one was fired at lower power, but was also a fair bit smaller than the right one.

View attachment 760363

This photo of the same watch was taken with two shoot-through umbrellas overhead. The left one was again lower powered, but the difference here was that I had a third light also off to the left(at the same power level as the left umbrella) essentially level with the watch and with a 16" reflector on it. I feel like this "catches" details significantly better, although there's still a lot of room for improvement in this.

View attachment 760364
I love this post! It has highlighted (sorry for the bad pun, the @kenoh is strong in here!) the details wonderfully, with that extra touch of light and the much improved result is self-evident. Thanks for sharing this invaluable tip. This I exactly the sort of magic that makes this such a special place. Sharing of knowledge without preaching or ego! :cool:
 
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needfx

Suspended
Aug 10, 2010
3,931
4,249
macrumors apparently
My total investment in Norman gear is under $1K and I have enough to light up a factory...

Of course, having it and knowing how to use it are two different things. I do a fair bit of macro photography-specifically on watches-and can consistently get GOOD images. Occasionally, I hit on something that I would consider GREAT, and as I've practiced my hit rate has become a lot better.

On that subject, a pro photographer friend who is also a watch collector has given me a lot of advice. He is someone who consistently is able to take GREAT images. Many folks, in their quest to get good images, will go all out with soft lighting. Light tents are popular. What my friend woke me up to, though, was the fact that you need to throw in a bit of hard lighting to really get details to "pop."

Here's an example.

This first one was taken with a pair of overhead softboxes. The left one was fired at lower power, but was also a fair bit smaller than the right one.

View attachment 760363

This photo of the same watch was taken with two shoot-through umbrellas overhead. The left one was again lower powered, but the difference here was that I had a third light also off to the left(at the same power level as the left umbrella) essentially level with the watch and with a 16" reflector on it. I feel like this "catches" details significantly better, although there's still a lot of room for improvement in this.

View attachment 760364

try going bare-bulb with your flash, that will definitely pop things out


https://www.flickr.com/photos/needfx/
 
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bunnspecial

macrumors G3
May 3, 2014
8,353
6,495
Kentucky
try going bare-bulb with your flash, that will definitely pop things out

I admit that I'm still a bit scared of hard light and have only recently started opening up more to it. I have grids, barn doors, and snoots but just haven't played that much with them.

I'm curious as to what bare bulb would look like with the Normans since there's absolutely nothing around the flash tube whatsoever-it's effectively "naked" and I always feel better with at least something so that I can stay away from it. Still, it won't hurt to try a few pops with it.
 
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