Do most of these monitors have speakers built in to them? I’d rather not have to buy a pair of external speakers just to hear some sound as it clutters the desk
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Best Monitor for New Mini
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Do most of these monitors have speakers built in to them? I’d rather not have to buy a pair of external speakers just to hear some sound as it clutters the desk
I tried a LG and Samsung monitor and wasn't too impressed by them compared to my previous pro art Asus I had. I just received the Viewsonic VP2771 and I think I have found myself a winner.
Even if they do most of them aren't usable for anything but system sounds. Those speakers aren't anything you'd want to use to watch a video, let alone listen to music.
Thanks for the insights. I'm considering a dual P2415Q setup for my upcoming Mac Mini. Still would prefer two high DPI 27" displays, but as explained before 4k is the wrong resolution for that size. So this Dell is one of the few 24"/4K alternatives. However the fact that this model has seen several revisions has me somewhat worried as it indicates that there was something (other than the old HDMI port) wrong with it, again and again. That and the thick bezel, which results in a pretty outdated appearance.
On the other hand I might bite the bullet and reluctantly get two BenQ PD2700U, which is my current pick from the 27"/4K category. Apart from the wrong resolution (or display size), it ticks all the boxes: True 10 Bit IPS panel, color accurate, sleek appearance, integrated KVM switch, under 500€. USB-C would be nice to have, but I'm not spending extra on it.
Well, still some time left to think about it until the Mini arrives.
As I've mentioned elsewhere (and probably this thread) I bought the P2415Q, just before I ordered my 2018 Mac mini. I used it for a couple of weeks with a 2018 MBP15, and now it's connected to the Mini.
I'm planning to order a second one soon. I guess it depends how you use it, but for me even at 24" the "Default" 2x scaling (so, looks like 1920x1080) is too big, and thus I have it using non-even scaling, at "looks like 2560x1440". I don't notice any blurriness or performance issues, but I imagine at 27" the UI sizing issue would be even worse.
A few things to keep in mind with this monitor, both pro and con:
- Unlike some of the newer LGs particularly (but I guess likely a lot of brands), this Dell has a regular IEC power cable slot (like an iMac or Mac Pro), it doesn't need an external A/C adapter.
- The adjustment system is amazing - I wish Apple would just copy/licence whatever Dell does in this regard, for their new Pro display. Having the option to rotate it 90º is amazing for long but not wide content. One caveat: it only rotates one direction (clockwise).
- It does have "integrated cable management" but because it comes out the bottom of the panel, you can generally see the cables still. I have some velcro strips, I'll experiment with tidying it up once the second one arrives and they're all hooked up.
- It has a 3-port USB3.0 Hub built-in, which is great, but for the life of me I can't get it to maintain power to the devices when the display is off, so it's useless for e.g. external hard drives or charging phone/magic peripherals overnight.
- Somewhat related to the previous option, it seems desktop Macs no longer have a specific "Sleep" timing setting (when the heck did that disappear!?) and if the Mini sleeps (I assume that's what happened) when it wakes up the display doesn't get any signal. I'm experimenting with turning off display sleep, and I'll just turn the display off with the button.
So, it's not perfect. I remember the experience with an Apple 20" Display (yes a while ago) was "it just works", it just wasn't very adjustable. Even with the power/sleep issues above, I don't regret buying this one, and as I said, will be ordering a second one. It's a pain when it happens, but I'm sure there is some way to solve the issue (the wake from sleep issue is the biggest hurdle really).
Thanks! Concerning the sizing/scaling: "Looks like 1080p" at 22-24" is the right size for me. I can definitely rule out wanting 1440p at that screen size - that's too small for me. I still prefer 1440p at 27" to 1080p at 24" though.
However I've noticed that I'm actually sitting pretty far from my monitor which is placed behind a midi keyboard. a large audio interface and of course the actual (typing) keyboard. That makes me, in contrast to my earlier thoughts, quite confident that I could actually work with a 4K / 27" display at 2x scaling. Currently I often find myself leaning over my desk - with the larger sizing of scaled 1080p at 27" leaning back is much more feasible. It would have to be a dual monitor setup though in order to make up for the lost screen real estate (compared to my current iMac WQHD display).
Other thoughts:
- Integrated power supply is a big plus. The BenQ I mentioned has it too. I hate those PSU bricks cluttering everything up.
- I noticed adjustments are pretty much identical for most modern displays. They can all tilt, rotate, pivot, swivel...
- If money wasn't an issue my top pick from the 4K/27" category would be the Eizo EV2785 - beautiful, high quality display by a reliable manufacturer. However that price affords me two slightly lesser displays from BenQ.
That's definitely a factor. If I move my chair back to just beyond arms reach to the display, the current setting is too small to read comfortably, so either 1440p @ 27" or 1080p @ 24" may be ideal for you.
I’m wondering about size of a monitor-I’ve heard a lot of people say that 27 is the “wrong size” for 4K monitors but 24’ is ok.
If I’m getting a fancy new computer (mini) I want 4K and I’d prefer a noticing bigger display then my current 21.5 inch Mac. I don’t consider 25 inches a noticeable upgrade on paper so what size should I be looking at to get big clean crisp text?
32? 34?
Any help is appreciated thanks
You're addressing several different issues. First of all for sharp, crisp text you want displays with a pixel density. That can be achieved at various different display sizes and depends on the resolution of the display. A larger display leads to less pixel density unless the resolution keeps up.
Let's take Apple iMac 5K as the gold standard - this screen has a pixel density of 217 pixel per inch, which is very sharp. A bog standard 1080p / 24" display has just about 92 PPI. You can compare different values at https://www.sven.de/dpi/
Almost all high PPI displays need scaling in order to display UI elements at the right size. Unscaled and at 1:1 pixel mapping, text and everything would look way too small (unless your display is very, very large - but then again you loose sharpness). So you need scaling. In macOS scaling at 2x is preferred since it offers the best quality without stressing the GPU. And that's why 4K at 27" is problematic. Scaled at 2x everything will look like 1920x1080p, but very sharp since you still make use of the rather good 163 PPI. However 1080p, even if sharp, will look too large on a 27" display. In most cases a 27" display should use sizing that looks like 2560x1440 - at 2x scaling that leads to exactly 5K.
A few posts earlier I mentioned that I'll get two 4K/27" displays regardless. But for me this only works because I'm sitting quite far away from my monitor and could actually use the larger sizing. And I need two of them since the workspace of a single display would be too small otherwise. I'd still prefer proper 5k though.
This post describes the problem quite well: https://bjango.com/articles/macexternaldisplays/
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Great post, thanks. I had not understood that buying an external monitor for a Mac is such a headache. Very helpful explanations and links.
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This is the predicament I’m in. I have a 2.5k 27”
2560x1440 Wide Quad HD (WQHD = 2.5K)
BenQ for my main monitor and 24”
1920 x 1080 side monitor on my 2014 mini. The text on the 27” is just right. The text on the lower res 24” is too big. The thought of a 4K 32” monitor is appealing, but I don’t want the text to be too big or two small. If I understand the math, the text on that 32” would be 25% smaller than on my current 27”, which would be too small. I might just order the new mini expecting that my current 27” BenQ will function as is, then replace the 24” with a second 27” similar to the BenQ.
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Also thanks for the post. I wish there was an easier way to know what size of Mac monitor would be best and if getting certain sizes, what scaling has to be done to get it to work or to view as 4K
I wonder if it even makes a difference to use 4K vs 1080p if the pixel stuff is more important maybe that should decide the monitor size if it’s just for basic use?
I just want to get a monitor for my upcoming mini that looks noticeably bigger then my current 21.5 inch Mac but now I’m worried that if I get one that is bigger if it’s not the right size it will actually look worse...
That post is couched in enough caveats to drive a truck through.
These discussions are like talking about looking at a photograph or painting or typography without any regard for eyesight or viewing distance or type of image.
Maybe people should just look at the monitor they are considering and decide whether it works for them.
Well, do you even want a high PPI display? If you're fine with the crispness and low pixel density of your current WQHD display there's no need to sacrifice screen real estate. It's pretty simple in that case. There are plenty of fine WQHD displays and you already have one. It gets complicated once scaling is involved - the only way to retain your current size/screen real estate combiantion at high PPI values is a 5K display. You may try other combiantions but you will encounter compromises and differences.
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Absolutely. I mentioned it in my post. And the post from the link also addresses this:
Buying a display with a pixel density in the red zone usually isn’t a good choice, if you want to run “default for this display”. For example, 160PPI will show non-Retina UI too small, but Retina UI too large (it’s worth noting this can be used to buy a display that shows larger text and UI for those who need or prefer it).
Ok-then to work backwards-is there any reasonably priced 32 or 34 inch monitor that people use that scales naturally above 1080p (4 or 5k?)
You live in the most populous province in Canada. Just take your mini to a store that sells monitors, plug it in to a couple in your price range, and choose the one that works for you. All this ppi arithmetic is pointless when your eyes will tell you directly what you need to know.
If you want an academic discussion, have a look at the Puget Systems site, which contains an article that at least discusses such elementary issues as eyesight and viewing distance.
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True. If PPI is important, another alternative for @Easttime to consider is running a dual Ultrafine 4K setup, which is what I'm doing now. The monitors look excellent because PPI is north of 215, although as someone coming from a 27" display, I find the two smaller monitors a little limiting.
I have a LG Ultrafine 5K arriving on Friday and plan to evaluate it compared it to this setup.
I purchased a 24" 2560x1440 (QHD) BenQ BL2420PT ($250/240€*) and I'm very happy with it!
Coming from a 17" MacBook Pro with a 1920x1200 (133 ppi) matte IPS I didn't want to lose screen space, so I actually prefer a 24" QHD to a 24" 4k UHD set at 'default for display' (UI looks like 1920x1080) and am very happy with the increased screen space (with a relatively small monitor) with very crisp fonts (123 ppi). I sit at about 2 ft / 60 cm.
For web browsing (90%) I use the low blue light display setting and for photo editing (10%) the sRGB or Photo setting (not decided yet).
Neat feature is the eye sensor.
Had trouble getting it work with hdmi to hdmi ('no cable connected'), something I've had with an earlier BenQ as well.
Got it sorted by attaching it with DVI to DVI with my old Mini, got into the OSD, and set 'hdmi auto switch'.
*) Actually paid 25€ extra to extend the warranty from 2 to 4 years.
Coming from a 17" MacBook Pro with a 1920x1200 (133 ppi) matte IPS I didn't want to lose screen space, so I actually prefer a 24" QHD to a 24" 4k UHD set at 'default for display' (UI looks like 1920x1080) and am very happy with the increased screen space (with a relatively small monitor) with very crisp fonts (123 ppi)
. I sit at about 2 ft / 60 cm.For web browsing (90%) I use the low blue light display setting and for photo editing (10%) the sRGB or Photo setting (not decided yet).
Neat feature is the eye sensor.
Had trouble getting it work with hdmi to hdmi ('no cable connected'), something I've had with an earlier BenQ as well.
Got it sorted by attaching it with DVI to DVI with my old Mini, got into the OSD, and set 'hdmi auto switch'.
*) Actually paid 25€ extra to extend the warranty from 2 to 4 years.
That’s where I landed. I ordered my new mini today and will sort it out when it arrives. But I am confident now that I will find a solution I can afford and work with. Thanks all.
So, to follow up (and I'd be keen to hear from anyone else using the same P2415Q with a Mac mini or Pro - it doesn't seem to be a problem when there is also a built-in screen), I've had some more luck by making/confirming two settings:
- Re-enable (it defaults to on but I'd disabled it) display sleep in macOS Energy Saver prefs
- Disable (via the OSD) DDC/CI on the Dell
I haven't tested this overnight yet, but it certainly works as expected after the configured display sleep time elapsed, and then woke up correctly.
Also, I noticed because of this - those of you who miss the 'sleeping' pulsing LED on the Mac mini. The Dell does that when it sleeps (the power button LED), haha!
That is the one I went with and I am very happy with it. I have it connected with the included USB C cable. I am currently running it at a "looks like" resolution of 2560 x 1440, with no significant performance hit on my Mini. I know it is a non-integer scaling option but I found (i) the native 3840 x 2160 made the text too small for my eyes and (ii) a 2x scaled resolution of 1920 x 1080 was wasting a lot of display space.