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maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,682
43,740
BestBuy management appears to be in "take the money and run" mode.
My recommendation is to move on, the great thing about capitalism, you have many other options to buy products from. Personally, if I was banned from BestBuy (or wherever), I'll be like, alright, you just lost a customer. Is it really worth getting upset and/or spending so much dealing with it?
 
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JRobinsonJr

macrumors 6502a
Aug 20, 2015
669
1,214
Arlington, Texas
There is this assumption that returning is a right, but in actuality it's a privilege. And if the return process affects the bottom line, then you can expect the privilege to be revoked.

Affecting the bottom line part applies to BestBuy because it's trying survive in the cutthroat business of retail with changing landscape.

Some people abuse the generous return policies, which in effect ruins it for everyone.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...m_term=.0a3d1c223210&wpisrc=nl_rainbow&wpmm=1
Excerpt from the article above

You are partially correct, EXCEPT... an advertised return policy - usually printed on the receipt - becomes part of the sales contract. I get product, you get $$, I have X days to change my mind within any boundaries established by the return policy. It's either a policy... or a right... but not both.
[doublepost=1516728374][/doublepost]
My recommendation is to move on, the great thing about capitalism, you have many other options to buy products from. Personally, if I was banned from BestBuy (or wherever), I'll be like, alright, you just lost a customer. Is it really worth getting upset and/or spending so much dealing with it?

Actually, it is. This establishes a dangerous precedent for retail. I understand and appreciate that returns cost money, and companies have an obligation to protect their profits, but at what point does this become antithetical with free markets? What happens when companies use this to eliminate returns? I don't make a lot of returns, but sometimes there's no way to know for sure if a product will solve your needs without buying it. Where does this go...and where does it stop?
 

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,682
43,740
This establishes a dangerous precedent for retail.
The precedent has long been set, and this is not a new phenomenon. I only see two ways to combat this, stop buying at a place that does this, or sue them. If the OP wants to sue, that's his right, though it could get expensive. I personally don't see this being a dangerous precedent and if it happened to me, I'd just move on. Life is too short to sweat the small stuff and where you buy and/or return material stuff qualifies imo.
 
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D.T.

macrumors G4
Sep 15, 2011
11,050
12,467
Vilano Beach, FL
Amazon has done this to people as well but I've never felt concerned - and we've returned a decent amount of products [to Amazon] but the buy-and-keep to return ratio has to be _very_ high (we've been high volume customers since 1998), and some of the return items are simply exchanges (for example: a different size). I'd also say we return things in perfect condition, every single tiny bit of packaging, we open things carefully, etc.
 
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Abiatha Swelter

macrumors member
Jun 5, 2015
38
40
My recommendation is to move on, the great thing about capitalism, you have many other options to buy products from.

Really? In my neighborhood, for most electronics goodies, my choices are Best Buy and Microcenter. That's about it. If it's specifically an Apple product, there is an Apple store.
 
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44267547

Cancelled
Jul 12, 2016
37,642
42,494
Here is the problem, you can't "Sue" Best Buy or any other company because of the ban, you have to file a lawsuit against 'The retail equation'. TRE is the company that is making the decision to ban the consumer, Not Best Buy. TRE is an independent company that makes the decision, not the retailer. When you file an appeal with TRE, they provide the consumer to prove why they should overturn the ban within 30 days IF the consumer chooses to appeal the Temporary ban, if its even successful.

The only way you would be able to sue the retailer, is if they did not want to accept the return for a product, which is a Civil matter. but the actual law suit ban from the retailer for returning/exchanging lawSuit is totally different process which involves TRE. Its two different entities.

Its a really lengthy, drawn out process that will likely exhaust the customer to the point where they don't want to sue TRE as it is, which the consumer will likely just avoid the company that they were banned from all together.

That said, I do think there are consumers that are likely 'Wronged' in the return process where they were denied and banned, but there is an effectiveness with TRE that does make it a benefit for those who do abuse the system or out to make fraudulent returns, etc. The Retail Equation has other retailers are conjoining with TRE all the time.
[doublepost=1516784260][/doublepost]
Amazon has done this to people as well but I've never felt concerned - and we've returned a decent amount of products

Just to add, it doesn't really make a difference how long you have been a customer with Amazon, or even amount of items you have returned or exchanged. There is no confirmed algorithm to determine how the consumed is banned.

Of course it's speculated that purchasing a large amount of items and returning them in a short amount of time triggers the ban to take place. However, as others have noted, that doesn't seem to be the case all the time. I think Amazon is tightening the returns allotted by the customer, which seems to be randomized how some are affected, even if they are honest buyers. How many are actually affected out of the millions of Amazon customers that shop every day on that site? Nobody knows the answer to that, but it doesn't mean long term customers can't be affected. Which is exactly why they have to have an appeal process for those who feel they have been wrongly determined.

I will say this, as someone as myself who has been a Prime member and purchases many products from Amazon, I do feel that Amazon is more lenient with these customers, as they want to retain their annual prime membership with dedicated customers.
 
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maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,682
43,740
Really? In my neighborhood, for most electronics goodies, my choices are Best Buy and Microcenter. That's about it. If it's specifically an Apple product, there is an Apple store.
Just go online like most other people, which is why big box stores like BestBuy are struggling.
 

D.T.

macrumors G4
Sep 15, 2011
11,050
12,467
Vilano Beach, FL
You can't really say this:

Just to add, it doesn't really make a difference how long you have been a customer with Amazon, or even amount of items you have returned or exchanged.

... and then follow up with this.

There is no confirmed algorithm to determine how the consumed is banned.

i.e., it's either not confirmed, or _any_ metric/attribute might be part of their analytics - and as someone who's been in the tech sector for almost 30 years, with a decent amount of focus on analytics (including ML for some analytics in the Fed sector and HR markets, that deals with patterns and projections), I'd suggest everything is factored in: age of account, return cycles, types of product, purchase increments, product source, all sorts of granular elements with complex dependencies, etc.
 
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44267547

Cancelled
Jul 12, 2016
37,642
42,494
I will reiterate, You stated this:

we've been high volume customers since 1998),

This is irrevelant and somewhat ignorant making this statement to the point already addressed. Amazon doesn't care how long you have been a customer since 1998 when considering a temporary ban. You mentioned you have returned a decent amount of items, but have kept the majority of what you have purchased. It doesn't mean that you can't face a temporary ban returning various items.

Which leads me to why I said: "There is no confirmed algorithm on how the consumer is banned". Meaning no one understands what grounds or formula on what they're basing the temporary bans on. From my understanding, there is NO evidence suggesting what triggers the bans. Hence there has not been a confirmed algorithm proving otherwise, but only enough data from others voiced experiences to make an educated guess, just like your suggestion "Everything" is factored in, when in fact, you have zero evidence proving that and others shopping purchases/exchanges have contradicted that otherwise.

I would also suggest that you read on the Internet about others who have made minimal purchases and/or returns to have been temporarily banned from Amazon for such reasons (Who claim to be long time Amazon members. This is not necessarily a new trend, but it's becoming more increasingly sensitive for those who are subject to being banned similarly to what's happening with all the retailers like Best Buy, Home Depot, etc.



i.e., it's either not confirmed, or _any_ metric/attribute might be part of their analytics - and as someone who's been in the tech sector for almost 30 years, with a amount of focus on analytics (including ML for some analytics in the Fed sector and HR markets, that deals with patterns and projections), I'd suggest everything is factored in: age of account, return cycles, types of product, purchase increments, product source, all sorts of granular elements with complex dependencies, etc.

I absolutely couldn't disagree more with you. I'm not trying to denigrate here, however I think you're uneducated on how retailers are unified with companies like the retail equation, and there are hundreds, if not thousands of voices discussing how they have been banned for different/various consistencies/ranges from online retailers and in-store retailers for either minuscule reasons, few returns, returning AND exchanging Products of All price ranges, separated months from The returns, etc.

I believe you have those who are honest buyers who are victimized by the returns that clueless as to why, because it's been speculated that it's randomized on how TRE is making their selections without having definitive basis, which in fact others scenarios in this thread alone have stated this.

I'm not saying there isn't those who abuse the system that Shouldn't be banned, is there are those route to fraud the system or take advantage of return policies excessively. That said, there are also other customers who have made one or two returns that have been temporarily banned from online retailers like Amazon or in store like Best Buy.


i.e., it's either not confirmed, or _any_ metric/attribute might be part of their analytics - and as someone who's been in the tech sector for almost 30 years, with a decent amount of focus on analytics (including ML for some analytics in the Fed sector and HR markets, that deals with patterns and projections), I'd suggest everything is factored in: age of account, return cycles, types of product, purchase increments, product source, all sorts of granular elements with complex dependencies, etc.

Here is what I can add it from my various experience and/or knowledge:

I used to work in the loss prevention sector years back for a very large retailer, which I both worked in store and corporate. When I did work in loss prevention in store, we conducted 'Customer Audit' reviews Regularly with access to the stores online Citrix Sales system that shows all purchases/exchanges both online and in store from the company. TRE was the company that was affiliated the retailer and had access to the customers data through their drivers license information, which was already in the Citrix system.

Example A:

(Regardless of price point of the Products, considering time as a measurement in below scenarios.)

I can Attest there were customers who were banned from making six spread out purchases a year and out of those six purchases, two of them That were returned/exchanged were temporarily banned.

To contradict how you "Suggested everything is factored", which indeed suggests otherwise:

Hence:

Example B:

And then I had a group of customers Audited who would make over 150 purchases a year, and perhaps return exchange 30/40 out of 150 of those items and Were NOT banned.
 

44267547

Cancelled
Jul 12, 2016
37,642
42,494
You don't know, you can't also dismiss an assertion..

Agree to disagree. However, Your assertion(s) are false. I won't derail the thread with semantics, , but your Post and statements are indicative of being highly uneducated/ignorant with retailers both online and in store correlate otherwise, which my post discusses my work history and experience in that sector alone.

Furthermore, There is no need to be dismissive because my post being "long winded", it clarfies to the best of my experience and knowledge behind this entire thread which I have contributed too and others might find it useful. It's been my effort to educate, not denigrate.

Thank you for the discussion.
 

xx22

macrumors regular
Original poster
Oct 1, 2017
195
132
A couple of interesting links:



Consumer Affairs:
"3,396 Best Buy Consumer Reviews and Complaints"

https://www.consumeraffairs.com/retail/best_buy.htm





Yelp: The Retail Equation, Irvine, CA:

https://www.yelp.com/biz/the-retail-equation-irvine?sort_by=date_desc

[doublepost=1516819107][/doublepost]Relentless Power wrote: "That said, I do think there are consumers that are likely 'Wronged' in the return process where they were denied and banned, but there is an effectiveness with TRE that does make it a benefit for those who do abuse the system or out to make fraudulent returns, etc"


Do any of the thousands of people you see complaining online about being victimized by the fraudulent return policy of BestBuy and the other stores hooked up with the so called "third party partner", TRE, sound like they are part of organized or unorganized fraudulent return gangs? No they do not, and that is because they're not.
 
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maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,682
43,740
It's spreading.
What do you hope to accomplish with this thread?

I'm sure it is spreading, back in the day retailers used to tag people with restocking fees and/or stating certain products could only be exchanged and I'm sure that helped curb returns from habitual returners, but that practice has by and large gone by the boards.

I think I'm still missing something here.

Retailers have the right to set the terms of returns, and it seems banning people that fall into a category of habitual returners is one of their weapons for reducing losses. You seem rather upset (understandbly so) that you were caught in that net, but what I don't understand is that you want to be reinstated so you can keep buying from bestbuy with the option of returning products. If this happened to me, I'd be like screw you bestbuy, I'm going elsewhere.

You yourself have stated that their logic/process leaves a lot to be desired, which is another reason to avoid BB, and go with a place like Amazon. Yes Amazon bans people with too many returns, but if you don't have many returns as you say you have nothing to worry about.

Like it or not this business practice is being embraced and I don't think complaining about it on a mac forum is going to solve it.
 

Kawawolf

macrumors newbie
Jan 24, 2018
25
9
Upstate NY
BestBuy is certainly going down the tubes, just like Circuit City did. Refusing to price match, returned items not getting checked by customer service when they come back to the store (saw something with cat hair on it when I opened the box!). Unfortunately, they're the only game in town once CC went and imploded. Granted, online is the way to go, and that's generally what I do is go and buy online. Who I really do feel bad for are those that aren't exactly computer savvy and need a brick-and-morter store to buy computer peripherals or really rely on the Geek Squad service because they know no different. It may not be the best service, but for some its all they have. If it goes, what do they do? You'd be amazed how many people don't use the internet for a lot of things.

Getting banned for returns is something I've never had happen to me personally, but it will drive their remaining customer base away.
 

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,682
43,740
What's spreading exactly? If you mean common sense, I sure hope so.
I think the OP is complaing that BB is using a service and that service is less then stellar in its execution of its mission. Tbh, I can his point in that its quite possible people who shouldn't have been banned have, but instead of flooding yelp with negative review (do people even use yelp other then to complain?), just take your business elsewhere.

As I stated, big box stores are struggling to survive, just look at Sears, JC Penny, Toys-R-Us. Each of them in their own way is circling the drain. I can see the logic in trying to reduce losses given their precarious financial situation. BestBuy isn't that far off in a sense, they're stuggling to remain relevant in an age where people choose to buy products online.

Yet when the dust settles and this thread has run its course, the OP is faced with the very same issue he did when he started it. Stick with BestBuy or find another retailer.
 
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belvdr

macrumors 603
Aug 15, 2005
5,945
1,372
I think the OP is complaing that BB is using a service and that service is less then stellar in its execution of its mission. Tbh, I can his point in that its quite possible people who shouldn't have been banned have, but instead of flooding yelp with negative review (do people even use yelp other then to complain?), just take your business elsewhere.

As I stated, big box stores are struggling to survive, just look at Sears, JC Penny, Toys-R-Us. Each of them in their own way is circling the drain. I can see the logic in trying to reduce losses given their precarious financial situation. BestBuy isn't that far off in a sense, they're stuggling to remain relevant in an age where people choose to buy products online.

Yet when the dust settles and this thread has run its course, the OP is faced with the very same issue he did when he started it. Stick with BestBuy or find another retailer.
I agree. It seems the OP is just posting things to convince others go somewhere other than Best Buy. The TRE/BB discussion has been had, so I'm not sure what more the OP wants.

I vote with my wallet and rarely go there, maybe one time last year. For 99% of the items they stock and that I purchase, they are overpriced, so I take my money elsewhere.
 

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,682
43,740
I vote with my wallet and rarely go there, maybe one time last year. For 99% of the items they stock and that I purchase, they are overpriced, so I take my money elsewhere.
I personally don't have a problem with BB, though I can't recall the last time time I actually bought anything from them.
 

OriginalAppleGuy

Suspended
Sep 25, 2016
968
1,137
Virginia
The spreading part was probably in reference to how the same company handling returns for BB also handles it for others like Home Depot. Similar experiences are being had at those stores as well.
 
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xx22

macrumors regular
Original poster
Oct 1, 2017
195
132
I personally don't have a problem with BB, though I can't recall the last time time I actually bought anything from them.


I think there might be a correlation there.

Yelp is very useful to me. It is not a place where people only complain. Check out the link i posted above for Consumer Affairs, Bestbuy reviews and complaints, if u want to see a few complaints.
 

duervo

macrumors 68020
Feb 5, 2011
2,476
1,248
Maybe they appease their employees by giving them a 5 dollar raise and calling them manager.

No, they don’t. I get it though. I’m not much of a fan of Best Buy anymore either, albeit for different reasons. Anyway ...

My ex used to work at Best Buy. Their store manager at the time was making ~80k/year. Manager busted their butt though. They were there almost every day, putting in over 12 hours a day. That salary they were making is on the high end of the scale, BTW. The average salary for a Best Buy manager is in the mid-60k/year range. You can find this type of stuff pretty easily on http://www.glassdoor.com.
 
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