Beware of Mac Pro 6-core's on eBay

[Macsonic]

In eBay, it may be best to always communicate with the seller on more info about his items. From there you can gauge if he is legit or if he knows Macs well. Most sellers use the description "Excellent Condition". Various sellers have different connotations on those words. Some would rate the item excellent but has dents and minor scratches that they don't mention in the description. Some will disclose if the Mac Pro has been refurbished and tinkered with and some won't. It's safer to deal with "Career Sellers" of macs as in they're in this for the long term and their business selling used Macs.

 

[Mnowell69]

Bought a MP 1.1 on ebay which was advertised spares and repairs because it had a damaged case. It arrived in the original packaging, wasn't damaged at all, and works perfectly. It did need a damn good clean-out though.

 

[cscotto]

Hello,

This is my first post to a MacRumors forum. I have been a Mac user since 1982. My first computing experience was with mainframe and UNIX. I have been a long time lurker, but I felt I had something to add to this thread, so here I am.
A little more background: I am a music professor, composer, writing both acoustic and electronic music. I also do production.

I was an early adopter of the Mac Pro, buying the 1,1 in 2006. When Apple cut my machine out of the OSX loop with 10.8, I started thinking about a new machine, and like others, I was eagerly awaiting the the 6,1 Mac Pro. I will buy the new Mac Pro, but not in the first round. Since the design is very different, I do not want to get caught as I did with my 1,1 machine. Had I known about the EFI, I probably would have waited a generation or two.

So now to the part that is relevant to this thread. I gave my 1,1 machine to my son, and set out to buy a 5,1 Mac Pro. I chose a 5,1 because it would be cheaper than the 2012 model, but spec wise it is nearly identical to the later model. I went to Amazon, and had many models to choose from. I eventually picked a 2.8 GHz Quad Core with no upgrades (standard RAM configuration, 1 HDD, etc) for $1400.00. The seller said is would have some scratches or cosmetic signs of wear. The seller also had at least five of the same model for sale. I bought it expecting a pretty beat up case. The machine arrived and it is near mint and exceeded my expectations. It also came with 10.8 preinstalled. Guess who the seller was? I also checked the serial number on Everymac.com, and it is a Mid 2010 model. Yes, iPowerresale. When I saw this thread, I was really taken aback. First, why would the OP agree to pay a price that is nearly the same as buying a new machine from Apple? Also, if the OP is so upset about the misrepresentation of the machine, why not return it when the seller offers a refund? If I was in that situation, the machine would have been back on the FedEx truck the next day. I would have also given the seller the chance to send me the machine I ordered. Again, I did not buy mine from Ebay, but it was the same seller, ipowerresale. Also, I am in no way affiliated with the seller. I had not heard of them before buying my machine on Amazon. The whole point of this post is that something seems off with the original post. I buy and sell a lot of guitar equipment on Ebay (since 2001), and everything people have cautioned is true. You need to do your homework, and if anything seems not right, move on to the next auction. Also, just to reinforce the point, for used items, stock pictures rather than pictures of the actual items for sale should send up a red flag. Either the seller is inexperienced and did not realize that Ebay might insert a stock photo for something like a Mac Pro, or the seller has multiples of the same item. In the latter, case I would ask for a picture of the unit that I will actually purchase.

All the best,

Great forum by the way.

 

[pastrychef]

There are websites that can tell you the exact model of Mac you have and date of manufacture. Check them and send a screenshot to them to settle disputes about whether it's a 4,1 or 5,1.

 

[Macsonic]

Hello,

So now to the part that is relevant to this thread. I gave my 1,1 machine to my son, and set out to buy a 5,1 Mac Pro. I chose a 5,1 because it would be cheaper than the 2012 model, but spec wise it is nearly identical to the later model. I went to Amazon, and had many models to choose from. I eventually picked a 2.8 GHz Quad Core with no upgrades (standard RAM configuration, 1 HDD, etc) for $1400.00. The seller said is would have some scratches or cosmetic signs of wear. The seller also had at least five of the same model for sale. I bought it expecting a pretty beat up case. The machine arrived and it is near mint and exceeded my expectations. It also came with 10.8 preinstalled. Guess who the seller was? I also checked the serial number on Everymac.com, and it is a Mid 2010 model. Yes, iPowerresale. When I saw this thread, I was really taken aback. First, why would the OP agree to pay a price that is nearly the same as buying a new machine from Apple? Also, if the OP is so upset about the misrepresentation of the machine, why not return it when the seller offers a refund? If I was in that situation, the machine would have been back on the FedEx truck the next day. I would have also given the seller the chance to send me the machine I ordered. Again, I did not buy mine from Ebay, but it was the same seller, ipowerresale. Also, I am in no way affiliated with the seller. I had not heard of them before buying my machine on Amazon. The whole point of this post is that something seems off with the original post. I buy and sell a lot of guitar equipment on Ebay (since 2001), and everything people have cautioned is true. You need to do your homework, and if anything seems not right, move on to the next auction. Also, just to reinforce the point, for used items, stock pictures rather than pictures of the actual items for sale should send up a red flag. Either the seller is inexperienced and did not realize that Ebay might insert a stock photo for something like a Mac Pro, or the seller has multiples of the same item. In the latter, case I would ask for a picture of the unit that I will actually purchase.

All the best,

Great forum by the way.

Hi cscotto. Welcome to the forum and thanks for joining the community. Thanks too for sharing your experiences in buying used Mac Pros. Some sellers in eBay do not post actual photos because of the volume of inventory they have as they usually have 3-5 units per eBay posting/checkout. I'll consider iPowerresale in the future in case I need used Macs.

 

[Shaggymax]

Now that there have been a few posts defending iPowerresale (legit or damage control??)...

Before the unit shipped, I emailed asking if indeed I would be receiving a 2012 Westemere 6 Core model. They confirmed YES.

I received a 2009 4,1 > 5,1 > 6 Core model. iPowerresale is a FRAUD. I didn't create this thread to SLAM them, but there are a few people praising them here. I also spoke with 1 owner (CP) on the phone, who claimed they had no authority to initiate a partial refund. iPowerresale = FAIL.

 

[Omnius]

Now that there have been a few posts defending iPowerresale (legit or damage control??)...

Before the unit shipped, I emailed asking if indeed I would be receiving a 2012 Westemere 6 Core model. They confirmed YES.

I received a 2009 4,1 > 5,1 > 6 Core model. iPowerresale is a FRAUD. I didn't create this thread to SLAM them, but there are a few people praising them here. I also spoke with 1 owner (CP) on the phone, who claimed they had no authority to initiate a partial refund. iPowerresale = FAIL.

Shops engaging in such unsavory practices are really what has driven me away from ebay. That and things are often suspiciously "sold" for prices that are often higher than new retail or refurbished retail or open box retail.

I feel that I find products open box for sale from best buy cheaper than ebay prices. And at least with best buy, I feel safe about my purchase.

I would want my money back in your situation.

 

[sbarton]

Now that there have been a few posts defending iPowerresale (legit or damage control??)...

Before the unit shipped, I emailed asking if indeed I would be receiving a 2012 Westemere 6 Core model. They confirmed YES.

I received a 2009 4,1 > 5,1 > 6 Core model. iPowerresale is a FRAUD. I didn't create this thread to SLAM them, but there are a few people praising them here. I also spoke with 1 owner (CP) on the phone, who claimed they had no authority to initiate a partial refund. iPowerresale = FAIL.

If you paid with a credit card (and I'm sure you did). Report them. You ordered one thing, they shipped you another. It's fraud plain and simple.

 

[jasonvp]

It's always risky to buy one of these from sellers who offer no details on how they intend to package it. Many people simply improvise something and the handles end up bent in transit.

I think this point was lost in the rest of the thread and should be remembered. If you purchased a used or resold Mac Pro, make sure your seller knows what he or she is doing regarding packing.

My used 5,1 arrived exactly as promised and was a 100% legit unit. But the guy that sold it to me didn't box it well. As mentioned above: the upper rear handle was bent in transit. The machine works fine, and the case isn't bent so much that I can't open and close the side door. It just looks bad.

Fortunately, I don't care about the aesthetics of my computers. It's unlikely I'll ever be able to sell this unit though, due to said damage. It's harmless, but it'd be challenging to convince someone else of that. And rightfully so.

This one will be retired (eventually), not resold.

 

[posimosh]

Yes I'm aware this thread is over a year old...
It is one of the top google results when looking up "6 core swap macpro 4,1" so I thought I'd clarify a couple things to avoid confusion....
The OP complained about the fact that they were sold a 4,1 flashed to 5,1 macpro on eBay. Well, if this is the case, as long as the seller didn't state specifically that it was and always had been a 5,1, I don't see a reason for the complaint. Even if they are passing off a 4,1 as a 5,1, effectively, this is the case as long as it has the proper chipset and faster ram in it. I say this because, aside from that, there is literally no difference between the two once the updated firmware is flashed to a 4,1. That is, hardware wise, they are identical.
The 4,1 when it is flashed, becomes a 5,1 in all ways except for the 1066mhz ram that came in the 4,1, and the chipset if they replaced it with one that will run and the ram is running at full speed 1333mhz, it is, effectively, a 5,1.
The only other issue is that the hardware is likely slightly older, but you are buying a used computer which means that it's "only been used occasionally for the last 9 months and I'm the original owner." At least that's what all sellers say when selling used macs. The OP did over pay for a 5,1 regardless of the chipset, but, with a 6-core 3.33 MHz MHz MacPro going for around $3500 "refurbished" from the apple store, it still could be considered a good deal depending on how you want to look at it.
Lastly, if anyone is upset about the serial number not matching up with the hardware in a MacPro, there are plenty of 4,1 quad and octo core Macpros around for you to buy. You can swap the chipset yourself, upgrade the ram, and flip them if you think you can make a profit. I'm a bit skeptical that you will however, because even with the latest, greatest xeon, and the asking price quoted is some of the posts above, you still have to buy matched sets of ecc ram, a 5770 or 5870 Mac version and when you start to add the numbers up, they come remarkably close to the price that the op paid for their kit.
Just my $0.02

 

[brand]

Yes I'm aware this thread is over a year old...
It is one of the top google results when looking up "6 core swap macpro 4,1"

Actually when using that search criteria this thread is not even in the top 100 Google search results.

I say this because, aside from that, there is literally no difference between the two once the updated firmware is flashed to a 4,1. That is, hardware wise, they are identical.

If there is no difference between the two once the updated firmware is flashed to a 4,1 and they are identical then why do the fans spin full speed when a 5,1 CPU daughterboard is used in a 4,1? The answer is because they are different and are not identical like you say.

If there is no difference between the two once the updated firmware is flashed to a 4,1 and they are identical then why can't I upgrade the CPUs in a dual CPU 4,1 without removing the IHS or using washers and a much thicker heat sink thermal conductive pad? The answer is because they are different and are not identical like you say.

I thought I'd clarify a couple things to avoid confusion....

Your mistruths don't do anything to clarify a couple of things to avoid confusion.

Just my $0.02

More like your $0.01

 

[m4v3r1ck]

There are websites that can tell you the exact model of Mac you have and date of manufacture. Check them and send a screenshot to them to settle disputes about whether it's a 4,1 or 5,1.

My best shot too!

 

[mikeboss]

using this URL from Apple, anyone can check to what model the serial number is linked to ->

https://selfsolve.apple.com

 

[adam9c1]

http://www.chipmunk.nl/klantenservice/applemodel.html

Plug in serial and get all the info you need.

FYI in December or January I sold my 3,1 8 core 3.0 24 GB and few drives for $950 with a monitor, keyb, mouse on CL. Sold next day. Chassis was perfect, no dents and only minor fine scratches from cleaning.

Picked up 4,1 2.66 8 core 16GB dual 120 video cards for $1600.
Case is not as clean as mine and one handle sticks out 1/8 of an inch.

It took me LONG time to find one that had proper photos of actual item and was 8 core.

 

[GraniteTheWolf]

This thread makes me weary, because this year I plan to save up and buy a 12 core mac pro from eBay.
Aside from shipping (I know only to buy one that can be shipped in an original mac pro box, anything else really is a risk) I had one big question to ask.

All of these 2009 mac pros that have been upgraded to a 12 core "5,1" machine.... Are they guaranteed to have the 5,1 cpu daughterboard and the correct 1333mhz memory?

I would HATE to buy a dual cpu 4,1 with the lidless cpus knowing that someone else has swapped out the processors. The whole ease of bending cpu pins on the lidless 4,1 models makes me not want a 4,1 UNLESS it has a 5,1 cpu board with proper lidded cpu holders.

An example:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-x-2-66-He...8778680?pt=Apple_Desktops&hash=item3cde5e96b8

it clearly states its a 2009 converted to a 5,1 12 core machine. Will every 12 core 5,1 converted machine have a lidded 5,1 cpu daughter-board?

If it has a lidded cpu board I would be okay with buying an upgraded 2009 model as long as it clearly states it was upgraded, because they often are cheaper and perform almost basically the same way, or so id assume.

 

[RoastingPig]

Ask for the serial number. End of thread

 

[brand]

Are they guaranteed to have the 5,1 cpu daughterboard and the correct 1333mhz memory?

You can not run a 5,1 in a 4,1 and it work correctly. You have to either use washers and a thick thermal pad or remove the IHS.

The whole ease of bending cpu pins on the lidless 4,1 models makes me not want a 4,1 UNLESS it has a 5,1 cpu board with proper lidded cpu holders.

If you you want to the fans not to run at full speed then it is not possible.

 

[flowrider]

Will every 12 core 5,1 converted machine have a lidded 5,1 cpu daughter-board?

No, the upgrade can be done in one of two ways:

1. With lidded CPUs and added washers and thermal pads.

2. With lidless CPUs (IHS removed).

In any case the chances are very good the original (4,1) MOBO and CPU holders still reside in the machine.

Lou

 

[GraniteTheWolf]

No, the upgrade can be done in one of two ways:

1. With lidded CPUs and added washers and thermal pads.

2. With lidless CPUs (IHS removed).

In any case the chances are very good the original (4,1) MOBO and CPU holders still reside in the machine.

Lou

Thanks guys!

Guess my best bet is to save myself some change and buy a proper 2010-2012 3.33ghz 6 core machine (with me confirming the serial number to be dead sure its original) then later I can upgrade it to a 3.33 12 core myself by buying the dual cpu 5,1 cpu board with some heatsinks, and a 2nd 3.33ghz matching cpu of course.
I did a little looking and found a couple 6 core rigs, randomly checked one's serial and it came up as a 2010 model which is great.

I'd feel more comfortable buying a machine and doing the upgrade myself as long as it has lidded cpus. I personally don't want to mess around with lidless, and especially don't want a lidless one that someone else has messed with.
I wouldn't mind a lidded one that has already been upgraded, cant mess that up as easy as a lidless. Like a 3.42 6 core for example.

(Also dont mean to sound like im hating on the 4,1. I just think lidless cpus are not the best design. Im sure there is a reason apple went from lidded in the 3,1 to lidless in the 4,1 and then back to lidded in the 5,1. Personally I am just after an upgrade to my mac pro that has the same 'ol lidded design) Long story short... just my preference lol.

 

[flowrider]

^^^^Just a note here - the 4,1, 2009, single core Power Macintosh came with lidded CPUs - it was just the DP models that came with the lidless processors. Why Apple did this on the DP 4,1s and has been a mystery to me.

Lou

 

[GraniteTheWolf]

^^^^Just a note here - the 4,1, 2009, single core Power Macintosh came with lidded CPUs - it was just the DP models that came with the lidless processors. Why Apple did this on the DP 4,1s and has been a mystery to me.

Lou

Excellent information, and im sure you mean Mac Pro and not Power macintosh...

 

[flowrider]

^^^^Of course I mean Power Mac. It's just that I've been around Macintoshes since 1985, My first Mac being a Mac Plus. Sometimes I confuse myself

Lou

 

[ActionableMango]

Well, if this is the case, as long as the seller didn't state specifically that it was and always had been a 5,1, I don't see a reason for the complaint. Even if they are passing off a 4,1 as a 5,1, effectively, this is the case as long as it has the proper chipset and faster ram in it. I say this because, aside from that, there is literally no difference between the two once the updated firmware is flashed to a 4,1. That is, hardware wise, they are identical.

Your claim is completely ridiculous and wrong.

Differences 2010 from 2009:
Newer SMC Firmware
Newer EFI Firmware
Faster RAM speed
Different CPU
Larger hard drive size
Better video card
Faster RAM
Better heatsink on dual-CPU models
Doesn't use lidless processors on dual-CPU models
Airport included by default
Components are all 1 year newer
Higher resale value

1) You can upgrade many of those to be the same, but not all of them. Notably, you cannot just drop in a 2010 dual CPU tray as noted before as there will be fan problems. And the reason why you can't do that is that you can only update one of the firmwares, not both, which is another difference. You also can't "unage" the components by a year. All the fans have been running for a year longer, all the capacitors have been drying out for a year longer, the drives have been spinning for a year longer, etc.

2) Not only is it impossible to make a 2009 exactly the same as a 2010 as you state, the seller didn't even bother to make it as close to being a 2010 as possible because there was no Airport card. The airport card is included by default. Not to mention missing drive sleds!

3) The biggest problem here is that 2009 and 2010 models have different resale value. You can make your same claim about similar car model years that have identical parts, but it's a lie and it's fraud. Even if they are exactly the same and have exactly the same mileage, the resale value is different.

 

[mojolicious]

Differences 2010 from 2009:
Newer SMC Firmware
Newer EFI Firmware
Faster RAM speed
Different CPU
Larger hard drive size
Better video card
Faster RAM
Better heatsink on dual-CPU models
Doesn't use lidless processors on dual-CPU models
Airport included by default
Components are all 1 year newer
Higher resale value

Yeah, but other than that...

 

[flowrider]

Well, if this is the case, as long as the seller didn't state specifically that it was and always had been a 5,1, I don't see a reason for the complaint. Even if they are passing off a 4,1 as a 5,1, effectively, this is the case as long as it has the proper chipset and faster ram in it. I say this because, aside from that, there is literally no difference between the two once the updated firmware is flashed to a 4,1. That is, hardware wise, they are identical.Just my $0.02

So let me see if I understand. Items, commodities or whatever that are produced and sold and modified by the buyer for resale and that buyer then sells the commodity as the newer model need not disclose that.

Let's see now AFAIK the 2012 Toyota Corolla and the 2013 Corolla are the same except for minor trim changes. And the 2013 and 2014 Kia Rio are, I believe, the same.

So, using your scenario, it would perfectly OK, for a seller to sell an older vehicle and describe it as a newer one? Thank goodness for the state registration process that would prevent such shenanigans.

However, remind me to never buy anything from you

Lou