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99 cents a year for push is very fair in my opinion.

Any ideas on exactly how it'll work? Will it push us a reminder that "bill x" is due in 3 days or something? Will it be a configurable setting (the # of days notice that is)? No matter how it's implemented, it'll be useful though.

Yep. We just submitted 1.6 to Apple so hopefully it will be released in the near future. 99c is the current cost. We hope it will be enough to cover the server. If not, we may have to bump it (at no extra cost to those who already purchased their first year) to $1.99. Again, we hope that's not the case.

Anyway, BillMinder has configurable alert settings that will warn you when bills are due within x days (I think it's 1 day, 1 week, 2 weeks, and 1 month off hand) so it is adjustable. We also added a new "autopay" feature (user suggested) that will automatically mark bills as paid on their due date (for those times when things like a car payment or mortgage are automatically debited from your account). Push will also alert you when that happens. So yea, it's pretty cool. The only catch is you need to open the app every so often to make sure things stay current on the server (once a month is fine in most cases but once a week would really be best). Also, BillMinder connects over a secure connection (via SSL) and sends only minimal information -- no user identifiable information is transmitted outside of your device's push id. Basically an id for the bill in BillMinder's local database, your device's push id, and the due date. We also store whether or not you've marked a bill paid or deleted a bill (so we don't alert you if you've already paid it or deleted it). To be clear, we never transmit or store account numbers, confirmation numbers, biller names, biller phone numbers, notes, etc. to or on our server. That's about it. I'm happy to answer any other questions about our PUSH implementation. :)
 
Sounds good. Push notification is perfect for this type of programs since it's supposed to remind us, rather us reminding ourselves to open the program and check. Anyways, I can't wait for this update and hopefully it will remain free. And if not, hopefully it'll be a one time charge rather than an annual fee...
 
Sounds good. Push notification is perfect for this type of programs since it's supposed to remind us, rather us reminding ourselves to open the program and check. Anyways, I can't wait for this update and hopefully it will remain free. And if not, hopefully it'll be a one time charge rather than an annual fee...

Unfortunately, we cannot afford to either make it free or make it a small one time charge. We're going to start by trying to charge a very small annual fee. We believe less than a dollar, once a year, is very reasonable for something that costs us much more than that. Push may require us to further upgrade our servers and need to cover our costs for a service we're putting extra effort to provide and hope you can understand that we're already selling BillMinder at a very low price given the effort to develop and maintain it. :)
 
I would not want an annual fee. I don't want my CC on file with some unknown company and such. If you can charge an upfront fee ... perhaps. I don't know how many developers are charging annual fees for push notifications.
I understand your server issues but you may want to build something into the cost of the app itself rather than say you want an annual fee, no matter how small. The administration of annual subscriptions is difficult.
 
I would not want an annual fee. I don't want my CC on file with some unknown company and such. If you can charge an upfront fee ... perhaps. I don't know how many developers are charging annual fees for push notifications.
I understand your server issues but you may want to build something into the cost of the app itself rather than say you want an annual fee, no matter how small. The administration of annual subscriptions is difficult.

Hi Jessica, That's not problem. You don't have to purchase it if you don't want to. :) Actually, we will be using the StoreKit functionality in iPhone 3.0 so Apple will be charging you through iTunes, not us. Also, it's not automatically recurring -- you will be asked to renew each year so you can just choose not to purchase again if you find you don't need it. We're not out to get anyone. We're just trying to provide a great product and service to folks who need it. :) We're asking for less than the cost of a candy bar to cover tens of hours of engineering time (JUST to integrate with push), plus server costs. That doesn't even include the future time that will be required to update, improve and maintain the system. We would be alright with charging more for our application but most iPhone users are not willing to pay enough for applications to cover this cost so we are making it optional so those who do not need the extra functionality can go without it and spend less. :)

Is it still 99 cents as a start up without push? I've been looking for an app like this.

It is currently, yep :D
 
Hi Jessica, That's not problem. You don't have to purchase it if you don't want to. :) Actually, we will be using the StoreKit functionality in iPhone 3.0 so Apple will be charging you through iTunes, not us. Also, it's not automatically recurring -- you will be asked to renew each year so you can just choose not to purchase again if you find you don't need it. We're not out to get anyone. We're just trying to provide a great product and service to folks who need it. :) We're asking for less than the cost of a candy bar to cover tens of hours of engineering time, plus server costs. That doesn't even include the future time that will be required to update, improve and maintain the system. We would be alright with charging more for our application but most iPhone users are not willing to pay enough for applications to cover this cost so we are making it optional so those who do not need the extra functionality can go without it and spend less. :)
I understand I am free to purchase or not. I am simply suggesting alternative methods. I am sad that I did this now to see your attitude of "don't buy if you don't like it" when a suggestion is put forward.

You speak of annual fees and fail to speak to how you intend to do this. As someone who cares who stores her personal financial data I have a right to ask and a right to command an answer if my money is going into your pocket. If people want to blindly pay you for an app like this then ok. You're not the only game in town, you're just a game who has been active on these boards and peeked my interest.

I am not saying the price is expensive. Don't attempt to put this in such a light that I am bitching about the price. I couldn't care less if it is a buck a year, it was the way you handled my subscription that mattered to me. You missed the point (again). I also never said you were out to get anyone but you do not understand or may not understand the responsibility that comes with subscriptions and the use of financial data. If it's done within iTunes, great. I never said you were out to defraud people. There are people that will defraud people using your very company; if they're so inclined.

but most iPhone users are not willing to pay enough for applications
Really? do you have statistics on this? I happen to know many iPhone users who will pay for a functional application ... even with developer attitude.

All I asked was that you look into alternative methods for charging. That would imply that I am not opposed to a charge just looking into alternative methods. It is clear to me now that you're not interested and as a customer that saddens me because it seems to be a decent app.
 

Perhaps we should discuss all of this via PMs. I'm not sure the rest of MR really wants to see our discussion. If they do, that's fine as well.

My intent was not to suggest you were complaining, etc. just to say we have looked at the other options (higher price, etc) and that they are unsustainable in the current climate. In terms of statistics, simply look at the Pinch Media report released some time ago. The App Store is heavily weighted at the lower price points (the vast majority of apps are $2.99 or less). If one does not compete at a very low price, they disappear from the charts and are relegated to 0-2 sales a day. This, of course, cannot support a small business. We don't make tens of thousands from the App Store. We both put in very long hours in addition to our primary jobs because we enjoy writing software.

We take feedback from our users very seriously and do appreciate it. You can ask anyone that's emailed us or posted on our forums for support about that. In fact, many of our applications' features are user suggested.

The simple problem we have to solve is that we have a high recurring cost, so we can't cover it with a one time charge. Instead, we chose to cover it with a very small annual charge.

We absolutely understand your need to feel secure with your purchase and your financial data. That's why we do not store any identifiable information, aside from your APNS device id on our server. I think I commented on exactly what we do and don't store in an earlier post in this thread. :)

Anyway, I think we're beating a dead horse here and we probably agree in principle. Have a great day.

Edit: And I do apologize if I missed your point earlier -- that was not my intent and it certainly was not my intent to insult you.
 
It is currently, yep :D

Hopefully you can clear up my quick question: How will I be charged for Push when you decide on the cost/ year? Will it be like my Xbox LIVE account where they send me an email 1 month in advance telling me my automatic renewal will happen at _/__/_date? They usually make sure that my payment type hasnt changed to make sure that the automatic renewal goes through. Will I recieve an email or will I just get an email from iTunes a receipt of $__ for my sub. every year?
 
Hopefully you can clear up my quick question: How will I be charged for Push when you decide on the cost/ year? Will it be like my Xbox LIVE account where they send me an email 1 month in advance telling me my automatic renewal will happen at _/__/_date? They usually make sure that my payment type hasnt changed to make sure that the automatic renewal goes through. Will I recieve an email or will I just get an email from iTunes a receipt of $__ for my sub. every year?

Thanks for asking. The pricing was decided on (99c a year for now, we're starting low and hoping we do not have to change it).

When you first enable Push in BillMinder, you will be asked for your iTunes username and password. We do not have access to this information in our program so don't worry about that -- this is simply Apple's StoreKit code asking you for authorization. It will then ask you to confirm your purchase (and display the amount). At this point you can choose ok or cancel. I believe Apple will email a receipt just like they do for applications.

Renewal is not automatic. When you open BillMinder, it checks if you have Push enabled and if your subscription has expired, it will ask if you want to renew it. You can then choose to purchase again or decline. It's not an automatic subscription. Perhaps we should put up a FAQ on our website since there seems to be some confusion as to how StoreKit works. Does that clear it up?
 
Yes, fantastically :) Thank you for your quick response. I'm sitting on the page of your App on iTunes and trying to decide from the screen shots the ease of learning the App to get the most out of it. Im reletively new to paying bills on my own, seeing as I moved out on my own a month ago, but all of my 1st month's bills will be coming in soon, and I want to stay on top of them and be responsible. How easy is the interface to use? What can I learn from the 'lite' version before deciding on the paid version? What features wont I see in the 'lite' version?

Your input is greatly appreciated :)
 
Yes, fantastically :) Thank you for your quick response. I'm sitting on the page of your App on iTunes and trying to decide from the screen shots the ease of learning the App to get the most out of it. Im reletively new to paying bills on my own, seeing as I moved out on my own a month ago, but all of my 1st month's bills will be coming in soon, and I want to stay on top of them and be responsible. How easy is the interface to use? What can I learn from the 'lite' version before deciding on the paid version? What features wont I see in the 'lite' version?

Your input is greatly appreciated :)

Feel free to simply try the Lite version first to see if you like it. It is is (currently) identical except it limits the number of collectors. I'm Probably biased but I believe the interface just "makes sense" and is easy to figure out. We are planning a major interface overhaul in version 1.7 to make it even easier to use (and prettier too!), though. Also we have a few guides on our forums and will be happy to answer questions if you need help in the future. :)

Edit: I should mention that the Lite version will not have Push, Calendar, the "autopaid" feature or the updated history when version 1.6 comes out (at least immediately). :)
 
So I've downloaded the 'lite' version and I'm impressed by the ease of use for what the App does. Everything is very well put together. I have a bit of trouble figuring out the "collectors" section, but once I got that down, it started making so much sense.

I have a few questions though.

-Is there any way to get rid of the "uncatagorized" catagory? I dont like how it seems to be mandatory.

-Also, what does the 'set period' option do? Is this where I decide how far off in advance it tells me about my upcoming bills?

-What is "pocketmoney integration?"

-Where is the abilty to tell the "bill reminder" that the bill will be automatically deducted from my account?

*Also, the app crashed on me twice. Is this a reoccuring trend in your paid App? Is it a problem you are working on? When I opened the App, the screen went black with only the top status bar showing (time, battery indicator, signal strength, etc) and would not leave that screen. I had to exit the app and reopen it for it to work.

Thanks again, if your answers satisfy my questions, you have yourself a happy customer. :)
 

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So I've downloaded the 'lite' version and I'm impressed by the ease of use for what the App does. Everything is very well put together. I have a bit of trouble figuring out the "collectors" section, but once I got that down, it started making so much sense.

I have a few questions though.

-Is there any way to get rid of the "uncatagorized" catagory? I dont like how it seems to be mandatory.

> Not currently, we need a place to stick bills when you delete a category but don't want to delete the bills :)

-Also, what does the 'set period' option do? Is this where I decide how far off in advance it tells me about my upcoming bills?

> That's right. It also impacts the number on the badge

-What is "pocketmoney integration?"

> Pocket Money is another great financial app made by the folks at Catamount Software. Basically, if you enable this and have PocketMoney, you can send the information from BillMinder about a particular bill to PocketMoney after you pay a bill (kind of like keeping track of a receipt)

-Where is the abilty to tell the "bill reminder" that the bill will be automatically deducted from my account?

> The "autopaid" option is a new feature in version 1.6, so it is not yet available in the lite or paid versions of BillMinder. It will be available in BillMinder 1.6, whenever that is approved by Apple

*Also, the app crashed on me twice. Is this a reoccuring trend in your paid App? Is it a problem you are working on? When I opened the App, the screen went black with only the top status bar showing (time, battery indicator, signal strength, etc) and would not leave that screen. I had to exit the app and reopen it for it to work.

> Yep there are some kinks in the lite version we have out there. We're always working to squash bugs (usually with help from a few testers and our users). BillMinder 1.5.1 is definitely more stable than BillMinder Lite 1.5. Generally when there are big issues (like crashes), we get a new build to Apple within a day or two, although I can't guarantee that in every instance, it's generally how we roll.

Sorry to inline the answers but I think it's most clear in this case
 
Great answers! Thank you so much!
I'll be downloading the paid version as soon as possible. For 1$ I can see this helping me a lot. :)

One last question:
I understand the function of the uncatagorized catagory, but can I at least change the name of it? :p
 
Great answers! Thank you so much!
I'll be downloading the paid version as soon as possible. For 1$ I can see this helping me a lot. :)

One last question:
I understand the function of the uncatagorized catagory, but can I at least change the name of it? :p

ok ok, we'll look at making it "Misc" or something like that -- we have some changes we want to make anyway. No promises tho :D. We actually want to rename somethings anyway so it works out.
 
Simple question that I can't find from the descriptions anywhere: What is the difference between BillMinder and BillMinder Lite?
 
Simple question that I can't find from the descriptions anywhere: What is the difference between BillMinder and BillMinder Lite?

Currently BillMinder Lite limits the number of collectors one can have. BillMinder does not have this limitation. When BillMinder 1.6 comes out, BillMinder will also have a calendar view, the ability to support push notifications (costs a bit extra as mentioned earlier), and the ability to automatically mark a bill paid for you on its due date. BillMinder 1.6 also has a slightly updated look to its history view and some bug fixes.
 
Currently BillMinder Lite limits the number of collectors one can have. BillMinder does not have this limitation. When BillMinder 1.6 comes out, BillMinder will also have a calendar view, the ability to support push notifications (costs a bit extra as mentioned earlier), or the ability to automatically mark a bill paid for you on its due date. BillMinder 1.6 also has a slightly updated look to its history view and some bug fixes.
Thanks.
 
i guess some of us just hates the idea of having to pay every single year. but speaking of pricing, had you charged 2.99 for this app, would push have come for free for us? that's the price i paid back then. it seems like you've lowered the price to 0.99, but then say that you don't make enough to cover cost of servers. logic suggests that lowering your app to 0.99 would have boosted sales. just wait until one of the competing "pay bills app" comes out with free push notification, it will definitely hurt your sales. bottom line is, i think you should focus on sales rather than nickle-diming current users. take a look at pocket god, it's managed to continue to grab people's attention because of their constant updates/improvements. it says alot to new customers right before making a purchase. and there's so many ways to improve your app, just take a look at the multitude of finance apps and add more features to billminder. anyways, enough rambling, just trying to give you some ideas.
 
I understand I am free to purchase or not. I am simply suggesting alternative methods and unless I kiss your ass you seem to come off as a developer that doesn't give a sh*t about their customers. Which, by the way, I am one of them as I purchased your app knowing push would come with a price later on. I am sad that I did this now to see your attitude of "don't buy if you don't like it" when a suggestion is put forward.

Wait, WTF? Where did this come from? Talk about escalation...

You speak of annual fees and fail to speak to how you intend to do this. As someone who cares who stores her personal financial data I have a right to ask and a right to command an answer if my money is going into your pocket. If people want to blindly pay you for an app like this then ok. You're not the only game in town, you're just a game who has been active on these boards and peeked my interest.

In app purchase for push. Updated every year I'm guessing. You really don't understand that MOST iPhone users wouldn't download an app that cost $5 but would if it costs $5 over 3 years, right? I mean, you're MAKING money on the float with interest over just buying it with an initial outlay. Combine this with the fact that all purchases are through iTunes (seriously, where else would they be?), who already has your credit card, means that your whole tirade on financial security is a pretty moot point.

I'm just left scratching my head on how you got all worked up and mad at someone who was super nice about explaining their program and putting it on sale again for us.
 
Purchased. Looks like it will be a good app to remind me of my bills before they are due. Thanks for the app and for the reduced price!
 
I love this app! Thank you so much and cannot wait for push notifications. I will gladly pay $1 to not forget to pay my bills which when late cost more than that each month! :)
 
i guess some of us just hates the idea of having to pay every single year. but speaking of pricing, had you charged 2.99 for this app, would push have come for free for us? that's the price i paid back then. it seems like you've lowered the price to 0.99, but then say that you don't make enough to cover cost of servers. logic suggests that lowering your app to 0.99 would have boosted sales. just wait until one of the competing "pay bills app" comes out with free push notification, it will definitely hurt your sales. bottom line is, i think you should focus on sales rather than nickle-diming current users. take a look at pocket god, it's managed to continue to grab people's attention because of their constant updates/improvements. it says alot to new customers right before making a purchase. and there's so many ways to improve your app, just take a look at the multitude of finance apps and add more features to billminder. anyways, enough rambling, just trying to give you some ideas.

We certainly appreciate the feedback. Yep, it's on sale for $0.99 right now but it is not permanent by any means. We think we do a pretty good job of continually adding features to BillMinder. Since version 1.0, every major release has brought a lot of new and exciting stuff. Often this has been the direct result of user suggestions (the "autopay" feature is a great example of this). The same is true of backup and export.

Pocket God is a wonderful app -- you're absolutely right. And not to downplay the awesome work that the developers have (and continue to) put into it, but I think part of that is its mass appeal. Not everyone wants or needs a bill tracking application. It's not nearly as "sexy" as something like Pocket God (btw I own Pocket God -- it rocks!). How many paid financial apps have you seen in the over all top 50 on the App Store? I think at $2.99, BillMinder was a great value and I think it's a steal when it's on sale. The problem with a higher price in general is one's app drops like a rock in the rankings (this isn't a hard rule but generally it's what happens when you raise your price). If you are not in the top 100 in a category, the only way for folks to find your application is really to search or be referred by someone. This is unsustainable from our perspective. Also, if some people aren't going to use the functionality, why charge them for it? Another problem is that server costs are recurring. If a user pays $0.99 (i.e. raising our price to $3.99 from our normal price) for it only once, then a few months from now when that money runs out, what happens? Aside from the financial debate, we have to proceed cautiously in terms of server load. We don't want to just open the flood gates and crash our server and screw over all of our users. It's a sticky situation for sure. We see this as a premium option and so we're charging a little for it. It's not as simple as typing up some 20 lines of text and paying some company 20 bucks and oh look, we have push. That's simply not how software development works. It did take a lot more than just 20 lines of code, btw.

There's a lot to talk about here -- lots of great discussions to be had. And again, we really do appreciate the feedback and it helps us make better decisions on where to go with things. :)
 
I don't mind this extra fee for Push. You are still given a great app that works on its own, and people that really need it can purchase push in app with your itunes account. We're talking about a dollar or two for a year. I only paid $1 for the app, so with annual fee of say a dollar, I'd only pay $10 total after 9 years. OMG, how horrible :) Even if I paid more for the app, this has been a feature that I really need. Some apps in the past used texting, that would cost too much annually with or without a texting plan, e-mails are too slow and unorganized.

Also, it seems like a lot of work to ask of a small developer, kind of a burden. When the sales run out or slow, and not much profit is coming in, but they are left with having to maintain a server for push for existing customers. I'd like to know the annual fee would help maintain the service and not be abandoned during hard times.

I bet Apple will eventually allow background applications as processors get faster, more ram, multiple cores, etc, it's inevitable. So Push will probably be dropped at some point anyway, but probably would have some use for certain applications. Maybe one day you'll have a choice to run the app in the background, or use Push.

EDIT: Too bad Apple didn't develop some sort of internal push feature that runs in the iPhone only. Sure you need an outside server for things like AIM messaging, breaking news, etc. But if you have an app with tasks, bills, calendars, where all the info is on the iPhone, why not have a way for the app to store scheduled alerts to some service directly on the phone to remind you later. Seems crazy to have to set up an outside server to communicate back and forth for a simple alarm or notice when all the info is on the phone. Probably would be an eco friendly feature with all the servers it would save.
 
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