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dmccloud

macrumors 68040
Sep 7, 2009
3,142
1,900
Anchorage, AK
What's more to the point, neither Diablo II nor Diablo IV has a confirmed Mac release, in fact, they explicitly state "not available for Mac". Seems like Blizzard is giving up on Mac users. :(
They are still supporting the Mac, just not for all of their properties. Diablo IV will hit the Mac sometime after it drops for the PC, while the Overwatch franchise will continue to be PC/Console only. Hearthstone is still cross-platform as well.
 

MrGunny94

macrumors 65816
Dec 3, 2016
1,148
675
Malaga, Spain
I still keep my gaming laptop on the same backpack as my Mac when I'm on the go. Got a Legion 7 with a RTX 2070 with me wherever I go... Just because I raid in World of Warcraft :D
 

Realityck

macrumors G4
Nov 9, 2015
11,423
17,216
Silicon Valley, CA
What's more to the point, neither Diablo II nor Diablo IV has a confirmed Mac release, in fact, they explicitly state "not available for Mac". Seems like Blizzard is giving up on Mac users. :(
Why would Mac owners need 2000's Diablo II? We played that for years even if its got updated graphics, its the same old ending. :p
Diablo IV is still about 2 years off, lot can change. ;)
 

Invisible Elf

macrumors regular
Jan 16, 2011
133
110
Does anyone know if:

(a) WoW Classic is also Apple Silicon native or if it's just Shadowlands?

(b) The Blizzard Launcher is Apple Silicon native?

(c) Any other Blizzard game is currently or is imminently about to be Apple Silicon native?
a) Wow Classic is not native but supposedly it will be in the burning crusade classic expansion
b) It's not native on my computer, but doesn't matter
c) Dunno
 

pmiles

macrumors 6502a
Dec 12, 2013
812
678
They are still supporting the Mac, just not for all of their properties. Diablo IV will hit the Mac sometime after it drops for the PC, while the Overwatch franchise will continue to be PC/Console only. Hearthstone is still cross-platform as well.
Diablo IV will not be coming to the Mac. Blizzard already stated so. This has been stated over and over again.
 

pmiles

macrumors 6502a
Dec 12, 2013
812
678
a) Wow Classic is not native but supposedly it will be in the burning crusade classic expansion
b) It's not native on my computer, but doesn't matter
c) Dunno
Launcher is currently not native... will be eventually. While you don't need the launcher to play WoW (Classic or otherwise), you do need it for updating the game client. So, if they choose to never update the launcher, you will lose access to WoW. Which is why it will be, eventually...

Remember, WoW's Mac team is tiny.... very very tiny. Things happen slowly when it comes to supporting the Mac, if ever.
 

Tsubame

macrumors member
May 11, 2009
73
36
Diablo IV will not be coming to the Mac. Blizzard already stated so. This has been stated over and over again.
Has it? I haven't seen any confirmation one way or the other. I don't disbelieve you, but I would like to see the statement myself. The "Not available on Mac" for the launcher is still fairly ambiguous, because they used that same language for the Warcraft 3 Reforged beta. Which did come on the Mac by launch date.


Pending that, I am still holding hope it will be ported. To date only Overwatch hasn't got mac support and that was for technical reasons (at the time). They could probably do OW now but seems too late to be worth the while. Not only has every other Blizz game got mac support, they had it at launch.
 

pmiles

macrumors 6502a
Dec 12, 2013
812
678
Has it? I haven't seen any confirmation one way or the other. I don't disbelieve you, but I would like to see the statement myself. The "Not available on Mac" for the launcher is still fairly ambiguous, because they used that same language for the Warcraft 3 Reforged beta. Which did come on the Mac by launch date.


Pending that, I am still holding hope it will be ported. To date only Overwatch hasn't got mac support and that was for technical reasons (at the time). They could probably do OW now but seems too late to be worth the while. Not only has every other Blizz game got mac support, they had it at launch.
The reason that Overwatch and Diablo IV will never be available on the Mac is because it uses too many PC instruction sets that will not translate. The game would have to be entirely rewritten to support the Mac... INTEL or ARM... and its too late in the development process for that to happen.

Even Diablo 2 Resurrected isn't available for the Mac. For the same reasons. Blizzard has chosen not to have two development teams.

Don't get your hopes up.
 

Tsubame

macrumors member
May 11, 2009
73
36
Reforged in particular is what does get my hopes up, at least until Blizz confirms their position directly.

Not that it was a fantastic package, but that it was a [recent] title that got Mac support. That along with Shadowlands being fully supported makes OW feel more like a fluke than a new trend. If Reforged hadn't come out on Mac, there was a very good chance I would have just bought a gaming rig instead of my recent iMac, blizzard stuff is 90% of my PC gaming.
 

GrumpyCoder

macrumors 68020
Nov 15, 2016
2,126
2,706
Reforged in particular is what does get my hopes up, at least until Blizz confirms their position directly.
Reforged is using the same old engine from 2002, so it's not surprising it's running on macOS.

D2: Resurrected is not using the old D2 engine, that's why it doesn't work on macOS.
D4 is also not using the old D3 engine or any old Blizzard engine for that matter, but the new Blizzard in-house engine, which again, does not support macOS and likely never will.

Diablo Immortal is using NetEase Messiah engine, which is primarily an Android engine, with cross-portability for iOS. This is not an in-house engine, but 3rd party.

The macOS-support ship is sailed for Blizzard. Looking at the number of players Mac vs PC and the costs and effort involved in porting to Mac or building the engine with Mac support in the first place, it's simply not feasible when the focus is on making $.
 
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Realityck

macrumors G4
Nov 9, 2015
11,423
17,216
Silicon Valley, CA
Diablo IV will not be coming to the Mac. Blizzard already stated so. This has been stated over and over again.
Nothing definite has been said really about that. We know Diablo 4 is not this year, could be still a 2 to 3 years, it’s a game environment still being tested in a pre alpha state with one large area where they are testing the characters and what they encounter. This is a new gaming engine. The 3 listed below were mentioned during the earliest system requirements. The fact that it says medium requirements doesn’t say it couldn’t be run in some environment that a Mac could use, example VM, Wine, and so on.

Diablo 4 Game Details​

  • Release Date: TBA (Microsoft Windows, PlayStation 4, Xbox One)
  • System Requirements: Medium
  • Genre: Action role-playing game
  • Developer: Blizzard Entertainment
  • Publisher: Blizzard Entertainment
 
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pmiles

macrumors 6502a
Dec 12, 2013
812
678
Nothing definite has been said really about that. We know Diablo 4 is not this year, could be still a 2 to 3 years, it’s a game environment still being tested in a pre alpha state with one large area where they are testing the characters and what they encounter. This is a new gaming engine. The 3 listed below were mentioned during the earliest system requirements. The fact that it says medium requirements doesn’t say it couldn’t be run in some environment that a Mac could use, example VM, Wine, and so on.

Diablo 4 Game Details​

  • Release Date: TBA (Microsoft Windows, PlayStation 4, Xbox One)
  • System Requirements: Medium
  • Genre: Action role-playing game
  • Developer: Blizzard Entertainment
  • Publisher: Blizzard Entertainment
Even if the game released in 2035 and Apple had a machine that made quantum computing look like a joke when it came to graphics processing... it still doesn't change the fact that some code is not portable... it literally has to be written for a specific platform from the onset. WoW was written for the Mac OS at the onset. It wasn't ported to the Mac after the fact.

Blizzard literally chose not to support their latest titles on the Mac. Chose not to. They chose. It's a done deal. If you think Blizzard really gives a crap about the Mac platform these days... you are completely out for lunch. They have far bigger problems these days than worrying about Mac users.

You can run Overwatch, Overwatch 2, Diablo 2: Resurrected, and Diablo 4 under bootcamp (or any other environment that either runs or emulates Windows). Guess what. You're not using the Mac OS. You might as well be using a PC at that point.
 

Realityck

macrumors G4
Nov 9, 2015
11,423
17,216
Silicon Valley, CA
Blizzard literally chose not to support their latest titles on the Mac. Chose not to. They chose. It's a done deal. If you think Blizzard really gives a crap about the Mac platform these days... you are completely out for lunch. They have far bigger problems these days than worrying about Mac users.
Yes we know your view.
Diablo IV will not be coming to the Mac. Blizzard already stated so. This has been stated over and over again.
We understand your opinion not based on Blizzard staff comments, but given the game takes about 4 years to develop (based on 2008-2012 for D3) we just have to wait to 2023 to see.
 

GrumpyCoder

macrumors 68020
Nov 15, 2016
2,126
2,706
We understand your opinion not based on Blizzard staff comments, but given the game takes about 4 years to develop (based on 2008-2012 for D3) we just have to wait to 2023 to see.
No idea where you got the timeline. A former Blizzard employee who worked on it stated that development for D3 started in 2001, back at Blizzard North. Development started with Windows and Mac versions in mind and it went through several iterations before it was first shown to the public in 2008.

Since D4 was announced back in 2019, you can bet they've been working on this behind closed doors for years. And if they had a Mac version on mind, this would already work on the Mac right now. This is very common in the game industry, work begins long before a game is first announced to the pubic. And not just the game industry, it's everywhere. Apple had a Intel version of macOS years before they announced the switch from PPC to Intel and the same can be said for the current transition.

If D4 doesn't work for macOS right now, then there's no way it will happen in 2023. Add another 5 years to that, if you're lucky. I don't say it will happen 5 years later, this is all based on how long software development in the gaming industry usually takes and that's also the best case when there's money to be made (on top of development costs).
 

Realityck

macrumors G4
Nov 9, 2015
11,423
17,216
Silicon Valley, CA
No idea where you got the timeline. A former Blizzard employee who worked on it stated that development for D3 started in 2001, back at Blizzard North. Development started with Windows and Mac versions in mind and it went through several iterations before it was first shown to the public in 2008.

Since D4 was announced back in 2019, you can bet they've been working on this behind closed doors for years. And if they had a Mac version on mind, this would already work on the Mac right now. This is very common in the game industry, work begins long before a game is first announced to the pubic. And not just the game industry, it's everywhere. Apple had a Intel version of macOS years before they announced the switch from PPC to Intel and the same can be said for the current transition.

If D4 doesn't work for macOS right now, then there's no way it will happen in 2023. Add another 5 years to that, if you're lucky. I don't say it will happen 5 years later, this is all based on how long software development in the gaming industry usually takes and that's also the best case when there's money to be made (on top of development costs).
Only based on the first public showing to the eventual release to Microsoft Windows and OS X in May 2012, the PlayStation 3 and Xbox 360 in September 2013, the PlayStation 4 and Xbox One in August 2014. Not at all behind the scenes work for years before that. I'm sure D4 has had a lot longer lead with development as you said unannounced. ;)

BTW the 11.4 beta 1 video drivers seem to be of benefit if you noticed your fans kick up using 11.3 beta cycle. I have an older AMD Radeon in mine so far its doing better, but will continue to push it. :cool:
 

JMacHack

Suspended
Mar 16, 2017
1,965
2,424
Even if the game released in 2035 and Apple had a machine that made quantum computing look like a joke when it came to graphics processing... it still doesn't change the fact that some code is not portable... it literally has to be written for a specific platform from the onset. WoW was written for the Mac OS at the onset. It wasn't ported to the Mac after the fact.

Blizzard literally chose not to support their latest titles on the Mac. Chose not to. They chose. It's a done deal. If you think Blizzard really gives a crap about the Mac platform these days... you are completely out for lunch. They have far bigger problems these days than worrying about Mac users.
Acti-Blizz (not the same Blizzard of the past, make that distinction) is not interested in anything but wringing the most profit with the least creativity or passion.
 

Tsubame

macrumors member
May 11, 2009
73
36
Acti-Blizz (not the same Blizzard of the past, make that distinction) is not interested in anything but wringing the most profit with the least creativity or passion.
People always say this, but don't seem to realise exactly how long ago the merger happened. It was in 2008. They've been Activision-Blizzard almost as long as they were just Blizzard. Most of WoW, including the expansions regarded as the best were under this umbrella. Both SC2 and D3 came out after this.

You may not like their recent releases, but I don't think it really has much to do with Activision's involvement, they've been involved for ages.
 

GrumpyCoder

macrumors 68020
Nov 15, 2016
2,126
2,706
Both SC2 and D3 came out after this.
Yes, but again... development for D3 started in 2001, development for SC2 started in 2004 if I remember correctly (could have been 2003). So the merger has very little influence on these games. If anything, after 2008 it had an impact on character/level design and optimization of code (removing bugs, etc.), but not introducing new features.

That also involves the decision for OS support for the engine. If Blizzard is smart, they should just slap some form of Wine around their games and sell this emulated version running it in lowest settings. That way, they can make a few bucks that surely pays off a handful developers for two weeks. Works for GGG with PoE, which is also a bare-minimum version of the game.
 

BigMcGuire

Cancelled
Jan 10, 2012
9,832
14,032
I’ve always thought that optimizations on Windows were more of a thing. I’ve been a Mac user since 2015 and even did WoW on a MBA via external monitor on low settings for years (I didn’t have much $ back then). When I had $ to buy an eGPU I noticed that an RX 580 with my MBP would not be able to push anywhere near the same graphics settings in a Windows box. Same for when I got an RX 5700 XT last year - even with v-sync on, it screamed max fans in an eGPU with my MBP vs no fans in a Windows box. (Last year of course).

Always got the impression that Blizzard put half effort in Mac - and/or it could be horrible drivers for Mac (Apple’s Fault?). No idea.

I retired from WoW last year but still play Starcraft II a few times a week with my RX 580 or M1 MBP. Surprisingly, the M1 is noticeably smoother but can’t do as high graphics quality. The eGPU jitters around a lot putting stuff in ram (M1 is smooth) and can almost do the same graphics.

I’ve been so tempted to go back for Classic (I left right when Classic came out and there were lines of 20-30 people for each quest).
 

leman

macrumors Core
Oct 14, 2008
19,521
19,679
I’ve always thought that optimizations on Windows were more of a thing. I’ve been a Mac user since 2015 and even did WoW on a MBA via external monitor on low settings for years (I didn’t have much $ back then). When I had $ to buy an eGPU I noticed that an RX 580 with my MBP would not be able to push anywhere near the same graphics settings in a Windows box. Same for when I got an RX 5700 XT last year - even with v-sync on, it screamed max fans in an eGPU with my MBP vs no fans in a Windows box. (Last year of course).

A lot of this has to do with drivers and API. Many games are still using OpenGL, which is a terrible API from the perspective of the hardware. Windows can partially get around this because GPU manufacturers include game-specific optimizations for popular titles. After all, they make money from selling hardware that runs game fast. This model doesn’t really work on macOS though.

Modern APIs (Vulkan, DX12 and Metal) are much better in this regard, and they pretty much guarantee good performance as long as you use them competently. You’ll find that Mac games that use Vulkan or Metal usually perform much closer to their Windows versions. There are still optimizations drivers can do (e.g. shader rewriting, but they are much less impactful than they used to be).

As more and more games get built abs tested for Apple Silicon, the performance will improve. Just look at Metro - an x86 application - running on M1. It’s playable on med/high settings up to full HD, which is super impressive for a 10W GPU running on LPDDR5.
 

David Hassholehoff

macrumors regular
Jul 26, 2020
122
90
The beach
Blizzard literally chose not to support their latest titles on the Mac. Chose not to. They chose. It's a done deal. If you think Blizzard really gives a crap about the Mac platform these days... you are completely out for lunch. They have far bigger problems these days than worrying about Mac users.
Yes, it seems Blizzard’s board of directors had a discussion on whether to support the Mac or the PC and they chose the CCP.
 

GrumpyCoder

macrumors 68020
Nov 15, 2016
2,126
2,706
Yes, it seems Blizzard’s board of directors had a discussion on whether to support the Mac or the PC and they chose the CCP.
This nonsense again. It's plain and simple, they've voted with their wallet. Do the math, when it costs more money to release a game for macOS than what you actually make from the macOS players who buy it, then it's not worth to bother about it. I'd do exactly the same.
 

David Hassholehoff

macrumors regular
Jul 26, 2020
122
90
The beach
This nonsense again. It's plain and simple, they've voted with their wallet. Do the math, when it costs more money to release a game for macOS than what you actually make from the macOS players who buy it, then it's not worth to bother about it. I'd do exactly the same.
That is exactly what I mean. All their decisions are financially motivated. I'm not sure what you thought I meant.
 

GrumpyCoder

macrumors 68020
Nov 15, 2016
2,126
2,706
That is exactly what I mean. All their decisions are financially motivated. I'm not sure what you thought I meant.
Sorry, was reading the CCP comment as their connection to China and as some people always claim that China owns Activision/Blizzard and they do their bidding. It's all about money in the end.
 
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