MP All Models Bootable PCI SSD Cards/Drives for Mac Pro (NVMe M.2, U.2, EDSFF E3.S, etc.)

[ZombiePhysicist]

@ZombiePhysicist : Can you try the Sonnet Fusion Dual U.2 SSD PCIe Card with 9400Pro?

I believe @Eyezestful tried the micron 7450 and it didn’t work. Any reason why you think the newer 9400 pro might work on the sonnet?

I did send their technical support a question asking if they know if the 9400 pro might work with that card or any other cards they may have. They have not gotten back to me yet. I will let you know If/when they do.

 

[Rimmsi]

From what I've read, Micron 9x00 U.2 drives should work on Macs. Unfortunately, I don't have my own experience.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

From what I've read, Micron 9x00 U.2 drives should work on Macs. Unfortunately, I don't have my own experience.

The 9400 is a U.3 Drive. And if you look at the compatibility lists that I shared about from High Point, you see that some of the older controllers do not do as well with the U.3 drives even though in theory, they should be compatible.

Anyway, it’s probably worth a shot, but for now I’m gonna wait on the new High Point card and see how that goes.

 

[Rimmsi]

I missed that the 9400 is U.3. Mea culpa.

 

[joevt]

Updated: Ok I forgot to chmod and now it runs but the output is a bit... sparse:
That said, I probably messed up the install of your tools.

Probably, but you didn't show your work so I don't know which step you messed up. What OS are you using? Did you test the pciutils commands as suggested in the linked page? You didn't include sudo in the pcitree.sh command.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

Probably, but you didn't show your work so I don't know which step you messed up. What OS are you using? Did you test the pciutils commands as suggested in the linked page? You didn't include sudo in the pcitree.sh command.

I ran it via super user account. But I suspect I fouled up the setup because I installed it via regular user.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

Arg, it seems like everything is one step forward, 2 steps back. I got the card and cables. But I bought the wrong cables, apparently?

I ordered this cable (which was apparently? a mistake):

𝐃𝐢𝐋𝐢𝐧𝐤𝐞𝐫 PCIe Gen4 𝐒𝐥𝐢𝐦𝐒𝐀𝐒 4X to 𝐔.𝟐 𝐍𝐕𝐌𝐞 Adapter,𝐒𝐅𝐅-𝟖𝟔𝟓𝟒 38P to 𝐒𝐅𝐅-𝟖𝟔𝟑𝟗 68P Cable with Power, 75CM

U.2 (SFF-8639) compatibility: The cable is compatible with U.2 (SFF-8639), a high-performance storage interface commonly used in data centers and enterprise applications.

www.amazon.com

Highpoint shows these cables, but not available on Amazon so I guess I'll have to order from Highpoint, but it might take forever to get here:

https://www.highpoint-tech.com/product-page/ts8i-8639-060

These cable names are beyond atrocious. No mere mortals can possibly get this right. Arg.

So apparently it's not enough for the cable stop be SFF 8654 to 8639 cables. I dont even know what he difference is other than the Highpoint cable has more pins on top yet is still apparently an SFF 8654 cable (my guess is since the highpoint cable supports 2 drives off one connector it needs more pins)

You cannot see the connector well on Highpoint's site, but you can kind of see here (off the Walmart site):

And of course no site can deliver this for another week. The Highpoint site wants, get this, $36 for ground delivery, and like $110 for overnight delivery of their cables. Are they high?

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

BTW, I'm not sure the problem is with the cable. But the drive does not show up. However, I do see the PCI card come up in system profiler under the PCI cards section.

I'm *assuming* it's a cable issue, but more I think about it, it seems like the cables I got, *should* work too.

What is annoying if you contact Highpoint tech support they want you to put in their awful kernel extension which requires you to turn off all kinds of security, and frankly I do not want to do that. Particularly since the 7120 has worked for years without the kernel extension. And they want you to run their WebUI to get them some kind of diagnostics. Some how I have to threaten and compromise my entire system to debug stuff because they feel like going through a manual of steps rather than truly diagnosing the issue actually thinking it through. This on top of help being via email and disconnected by 12 hour time zones makes for a lovely time.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

Here is a Broadcom guide to several different types of cables for HBAs (Host Bus Adapter) cards:

https://docs.broadcom.com/doc/12354774

It does not show the 2 kinds of SFF 8654 connectors, though. :/

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

Ok looks like I found the difference. One is a x4 cable, and the other is an x8 cable. Not sure if the series 8ES4/8ES8 designation is specific to 3M where I found this:

https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/1425176O/3m-slimline-twin-axial-cable-assembly-sff-8654-for-sas-and-pcie-applications.pdf

Actually, looks like the 2 types are SFF-8654 4i and SFF-8654 8I for x4 and x8 capacity, respectively.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

And, if that were not all complicated enough. There seems to be a distinction between U.2 end cables, and U.3 end cables. Totally not clear if there is any true difference, and what that is? The cable numbering seems to be identical. For example:

Here is a cable that ends in a 2 U.2 SFF 8639 cables:

Linkreal PCIe 4.0 SlimSAS 8i (SFF-8654) to Two U.2 SFF-8639 Cable - Newegg.com

Buy Linkreal PCIe 4.0 SlimSAS 8i (SFF-8654) to Two U.2 SFF-8639 Cable with fast shipping and top-rated customer service. Once you know, you Newegg!

www.newegg.com

And here is a cable that ends in 2 U.3 SF 8639 cables (but they also make cables that end in 4 and 8 8639 cables!?!):

‌SlimSAS 8i S‌FF-8654 to 2 X SFF-8639 U.3 Cable - 1 Meter - Walmart.com

Buy ‌SlimSAS 8i S‌FF-8654 to 2 X SFF-8639 U.3 Cable - 1 Meter at Walmart.com

www.walmart.com

There seems to be a different draw for power, I guess?

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

What is bothering me is I think that the cable I did get, should still work. The SFF-8654 4i to SFF-8639 cables. It's just one drive, so not sure why the 9300 Pro wont even show up on the Highpoint 1580 while it does with the 7120.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

Seagate Nytro 5060 PCIe Gen5 Enterprise SSD Teased at FMS

The Seagate Nytro 5060 PCIe Gen5 SSD was quietly revealed at the Flash Memory Summit Conference & Exhibition 2023.

www.storagereview.com

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

ARGG. So I got the high point cables. I guess the good news is the Highpoint 1580 with the Highpoint cable can run my Micron 9300 pro just fine. But macOS still cannot see the 9400 Pro even with the new controller.

Arg what a huge let down. I guess I'll pack up the 9400 Pro and send it back. I'll keep the new Highpoint controller since it does work my my current 9300 pro just because it looks like it should have far greater compatibility with more drives than my old 7120 does.

Man, Im super bummed. What an expensive "trial".

Apple, man, is just pure s**t. I cannot believe no one reports on just how bad and hostile they are. You cannot clone your boot drive (so so much for having continuous reliability). And it makes no sense, their 'security' is on a basically read only system drive that is not cloneable. Worse, you cannot copy/migrate your Time Machine to a new bigger drive. It wont work between APFS journaling or HFS+ weird links. It's soooo user hostile. It's MY data and you give me no way to migrate it over to a bigger drive so I just lose all my versions. They dont provide I guess the most basic drivers for newer U2/U3 drives. The s**tshow that is Ventura and it's sysPrefs atrocity.

Just at every turn, they are fat, dumb, lazy and outright incompetent. You really get the feeling more and more, that pros are just not welcome.

Just frazzled from why this stuff is like my going to the moon. It shouldn't be this difficult.

Just really, F apple.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

And of course it works just fine under windows. Actually way faster than I thought it would on the 2019 Mac Pro, getting around 5100MB/s read/write. That is almost double the performance of the 9300 pro on the same machine.

What the heck is different in some drives that macOS just cannot see them? I wonder if maybe the drive needs to be in port 1 of the HBA controller card to be seen under macOS? Maybe will try that before I send it back.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

Nope switched ports. Same thing. Maybe if I put both drives on the same port, since the high point cables split into 2 connectors?

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

Nope switched ports. Same thing. Maybe if I put both drives on the same port, since the high point cables split into 2 connectors?

Nope no joy. I guess macOS is fundamentally not compatible with the 9400 and apparently many other U2/U3 SSDs. The question is why?

 

[joevt]

What the heck is different in some drives that macOS just cannot see them? I wonder if maybe the drive needs to be in port 1 of the HBA controller card to be seen under macOS? Maybe will try that before I send it back.

It would help to know what macOS can see. Still waiting for pcitree or ioreg output. PM me if you need help with those.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

Thanks. Ok, not sure I'll figure out how to install pcitree, but I got ioreg to dump the attached.

One thing to note. When I boot without the 9400 Pro plugged in, the system boots up in maybe 40 seconds. When I boot with the 9400 Pro plugged in, it takes over 5 minutes. So it's hanging/polling at something.

Also, here is the output from SystemInformation.app

 

[joevt]

Thanks. Ok, not sure I'll figure out how to install pcitree,

PM me with a copy of the Terminal.app output and I'll tell you what to do different.

but I got ioreg to dump the attached.
Also, here is the output from SystemInformation.app

In the ioreg, I see a device pci1344,51b1. A IONVMeController driver is loaded for it. It shows there's one IONVMeBlockStorageDevice which is a Micron_9300_MTFDHAL15T3TDP with some partitions. The same info is shown in the PCI tab of System Information.app
https://admin.pci-ids.ucw.cz/read/PC/1344/51b1

There's another device pci1344,5196
https://admin.pci-ids.ucw.cz/read/PC/1344/5196
That's the 9400 but no driver is getting loaded for it. The PCI tab of System Information.app also shows this.
Need to see the class code and other PCI info to see if there's a reason the NVMe driver won't load for it.
I think the generic NVMe driver only requires class code 01:08:02.
https://admin.pci-ids.ucw.cz/read/PD/01/08/02

ioreg -filw0 > ioreg_all.txt will output more info about the devices and drivers such as the product IDs for the parent PCIe bridges.
ioreg -filrw0 -c IOPCIBridge > ioreg_pci.txt is the same except it will include only everything connected to PCI.

One thing to note. When I boot without the 9400 Pro plugged in, the system boots up in maybe 40 seconds. When I boot with the 9400 Pro plugged in, it takes over 5 minutes. So it's hanging/polling at something.

Not sure what to do about that. You can try booting in verbose mode to see if there's a clue there. Is it trying to do TRIM to NVMe devices? Check the logs?
What if you switch the position of the 9400 and the 9300?

What version of macOS? I think you said Ventura? Did you try other versions? Ventura doesn't add anything new to the IONVMeFamily plist except IOPCIUseDeviceMapper whatever that is.

Maybe the problem is the capacity?[/code]

 

[Rimmsi]

I wondered if Apple doesn't use a White List on U.2 drives like Lenovo does on their laptop wifi cards. The only solution was to remove this limitation in BIOS modification.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

PM me with a copy of the Terminal.app output and I'll tell you what to do different.


In the ioreg, I see a device pci1344,51b1. A IONVMeController driver is loaded for it. It shows there's one IONVMeBlockStorageDevice which is a Micron_9300_MTFDHAL15T3TDP with some partitions. The same info is shown in the PCI tab of System Information.app
https://admin.pci-ids.ucw.cz/read/PC/1344/51b1

There's another device pci1344,5196
https://admin.pci-ids.ucw.cz/read/PC/1344/5196
That's the 9400 but no driver is getting loaded for it. The PCI tab of System Information.app also shows this.
Need to see the class code and other PCI info to see if there's a reason the NVMe driver won't load for it.
I think the generic NVMe driver only requires class code 01:08:02.
https://admin.pci-ids.ucw.cz/read/PD/01/08/02

ioreg -filw0 > ioreg_all.txt will output more info about the devices and drivers such as the product IDs for the parent PCIe bridges.
ioreg -filrw0 -c IOPCIBridge > ioreg_pci.txt is the same except it will include only everything connected to PCI.


Not sure what to do about that. You can try booting in verbose mode to see if there's a clue there. Is it trying to do TRIM to NVMe devices? Check the logs?
What if you switch the position of the 9400 and the 9300?

What version of macOS? I think you said Ventura? Did you try other versions? Ventura doesn't add anything new to the IONVMeFamily plist except IOPCIUseDeviceMapper whatever that is.

Maybe the problem is the capacity?[/code]

Thanks @joevt . Not comfortable sharing the output of those commands. They include too much private/system info. Perhaps if there is a section of that you wish to see that I could search for?

I have tried switching the position of the drives, same result. It is strange. But it gets stranger.

I'm having a frustrating time talking to Highpoint tech support about the problem. They want me to install a driver and I want nothing to do with a driver (you have to disable SIP and bunch of other things) as it always ends up borking the system, and the cards run just fine without the driver. They want some diagnostic report from their WebUI tool, but wont tell me how to install that without installing the macOS driver. I can tell they are just following a script, and there few things worse than people abandoning their brains to follow a script.

Anyway, they just informed me, get this, that the Highpoint 1580 does not support macOS:

U.2/3 disks may have compatibility problems in Mac, which has nothing to do with cables and controllers, so we still hope that you can provide us with a log information so that we can analyze the reasons.
In addition, our R1580 does not support MacOS at present, you can refer to the Specifications information in the link below.
https://www.highpoint-tech.com/nvme-aic/r1580

Regarding the recommendation of large-capacity disks, we are discussing internally, and we will let you know when we have a reply, and we will only recommend the models used with SSD7120 for large-capacity disks, because R1580 does not support Mac OS.

The above is useful in that they do not think the U.3 style cabling (with the different power source) is what makes the difference in compatibility, so at least I do not have to go further down that rabbit hole.

But with regard to macOS compatibility, really, then what explains the macOS logo on that very same page!?!

Not to mention, the 1580 is literally working right now as I type this out, without a driver on my 9300 Pro, BTW. It's bizzaro world.

And I also still have the 7120 card, way not to answer the question of what 30TB or larger U2/U3 drives work on macOS with your cards. Which I re-asked, for the 7120 too, to them to make it clear...I don't care which of their cards support it, tell me of any such drives.

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

Wow. So I just got a 22TB SATA drive (for Time Machine). And the machine does not see the drive at all. Does macOS have an inability to see any drive/storage over 16TB?

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

Wow. So I just got a 22TB SATA drive (for Time Machine). And the machine does not see the drive at all. Does macOS have an inability to see any drive/storage over 16TB?

The 22TB drive happens to be DOA, and messing with the Mac Pro's brain dead case. Man I'm having a great few weeks dealing with storage!

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

Well I had to send the 30tb Micro 9400 pro back as I was at the end of the return period. I’m keeping the HighPoint rocket 1580 (despite HighPoint tech support saying it’s not compatible with the Mac) as under windows because even wit my pci3 2019 Mac Pro, it basically doubled the throughput of the 7120 card combo with the 9300 pro.

So now the search begins for a 30+tb u.2/u.3 drive that will work on macOS. It appears as though no such thing currently exists.

The biggest u2/u3 drive know to work is my 15tb micron 9300 pro…so far.

I think the Solidigm drives might be the leading candidates. Has anyone spotted either the 30 or 60tb versions for sale anywhere. I don’t see them yet.