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Broadwell... The main reason for the mini's delay.

scottsjack said:
Same here. It is the hardware and Windows compatibility that got me into the Mac camp. I do not have much interest in radically different hardware, ARM or iOS. If the mini became a one-piece, glued together Internet appliance I doubt if I would have one.
Click to expand...

But what happens when ARMs have the power of x86 processors and are a lot cheaper.

What do you do with those chips?

Sooner or later they are going to migrate to laptops just because of battery life and efficiency.

AnandTech claims that the only bottleneck for the A7 from being a desktop computer chip is the RAM.

Apple has solved that problem with partnering for DDR4 manufacturing.

More ARM design work is moving inside Apple.

Something has to come of the chips other than run a phone or tablet.

I'm not advocating the Mini ARM but I think the future will be these chips for mobile computing and even though the Mini is not really mobile it follows that platform.
 
I admit I don't get this notion that Apple will try to make the Mini smaller. There is no reason to make it smaller. In fact, it might work well to keep the same footprint and make it about 1/4 - 1/2 inch greater in height so more could be place within and perhaps a slightly larger fan. The back of the Mini is rather congested and unsure why anyone would want to increase that facet of the chassis.
 
Acorn said:
... hopefully broadwell will use less juice so they can shrink the case down.

if they could manage to shrink it down to the size of their external cd rom drive they sell and still have an i7 processor in it that would be impressive. theoretically it is possible if they can squeeze them in the 15 inch retinas. they are at least that thin. I know I would buy one.
Click to expand...

I was just digging through my 2012 i7 mini to put in a second drive and am certain they can reduce the cases by half when the Broadwell comes out.

It could mean ditching HHD and using minimal-size SSD perhaps even soldered into the machine, reducing the fan, compressing the motherboard (very overdue), and simplifying the power pack.

In terms of today's Apple tech, the mini is VERY roomy.
----
Who can tell how Apple works these days. They are a gigantic and talented tech company with unbelievable wealth and resources...

And they only have a handful of products, many of which they update bi-annually.

Makes no sense. None. It's actually corporate malfeasance.

Apple could release a mere Haswell update in Sept/October. They could change direction and release a Haswell ASAP and then re-update and redesign next year when Broadwells come out. They could skip update this year entirely and wait for the Broadwells next year. Apple isn't operating responsibly, so I doubt they will continue to operate logically... unless we are talking about iProducts.
 
Lesser Evets said:
Apple could release a mere Haswell update in Sept/October. They could change direction and release a Haswell ASAP and then re-update and redesign next year when Broadwells come out. They could skip update this year entirely and wait for the Broadwells next year. Apple isn't operating responsibly, so I doubt they will continue to operate logically... unless we are talking about iProducts.
Click to expand...

The I is about all that really drives Apple anymore.

The Mini would be gone if not for the server business.

When you get bloated in wealth you lose your perspective and innovation.

They probably wish the Mini would just go away. :apple:
 
Crosscreek said:
The I is about all that really drives Apple anymore.

The Mini would be gone if not for the server business.

When you get bloated in wealth you lose your perspective and innovation.

They probably wish the Mini would just go away. :apple:
Click to expand...

Ouch! And yet so true. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
 
Crosscreek said:
The I is about all that really drives Apple anymore.

The Mini would be gone if not for the server business.

When you get bloated in wealth you lose your perspective and innovation.

They probably wish the Mini would just go away. :apple:
Click to expand...
That's rather harsh. Apple is a big company now with a responsibility to it's shareholders, they have to be selective about what they announce. A start up is free to float various ideas, if the fly they reap the praise and if they die they just go onto the next thing - probably having spent a few $ in VC/PE money. I am very confident Apple is working on lots of innovative projects, they just keep them under wraps. The truth is the Mini isn't as exciting as wearables, tv or the MP or an Air refresh. I think a Mini refresh will come but it should be no surprise it's on a slower refresh cycle than the other products, its a desktop box and whilst we love it it's hardly going to generate lots of praise for being innovative no matter what they do with it.
 
Jambalaya said:
That's rather harsh. Apple is a big company now with a responsibility to it's shareholders, they have to be selective about what they announce. A start up is free to float various ideas, if the fly they reap the praise and if they die they just go onto the next thing - probably having spent a few $ in VC/PE money. I am very confident Apple is working on lots of innovative projects, they just keep them under wraps. The truth is the Mini isn't as exciting as wearables, tv or the MP or an Air refresh. I think a Mini refresh will come but it should be no surprise it's on a slower refresh cycle than the other products, its a desktop box and whilst we love it it's hardly going to generate lots of praise for being innovative no matter what they do with it.
Click to expand...

They have not innovated anything since Jobs has been gone. The Mini does not fit into the Apple philosophy of sealed tight.... no user upgrading.
 
I thought that the comments about the A7 were appropriate. Doesn't Intel risk Apple pique by further delaying the mobile chips? As Apple has spent significant sums on the A series chips, which are just mobile chips, what is to keep Apple from putting them in a desktop device that already uses a mobile chip?

While Apple has been at pains to keep iOS and OSX separate, it seems that they are getting closer and closer, and putting the A series chips in a desktop or a laptop is the next step.
 
LorenK said:
I thought that the comments about the A7 were appropriate. Doesn't Intel risk Apple pique by further delaying the mobile chips? As Apple has spent significant sums on the A series chips, which are just mobile chips, what is to keep Apple from putting them in a desktop device that already uses a mobile chip?

While Apple has been at pains to keep iOS and OSX separate, it seems that they are getting closer and closer, and putting the A series chips in a desktop or a laptop is the next step.
Click to expand...

I'm sure Apple has a ported version of OSX running on a IPad back in the lab.
It has probably been ported when Jobs was still alive. It may have not run well then but I'll bet it runs just fine on that A7 chip.
 
Honestly the only exciting thing in tech in the last few years IMO has been a decrease in price of SSD drives. It's the one thing that feels like it made a damn of difference in computer speed minus dual\quad\octo cores.

I definitely think mobile and desktop are going to collide hard at some point. As much as we all love tinkering and building our own little upgraded minis I'd say it's more about getting more bang for our buck than us actually wanting to constantly rip those suckers apart.

The asus chromebox and chromebooks are actually pretty capable little devices for what they are. They boot in 7 seconds. Will it run all of our desktop apps? Not yet. When we can get 1TB of storage or more in a built in SSD and it can run everything we throw at it (not costing us an arm and a leg) we might not be as against a smaller quieter more efficient device.

I think fanless designs will eventually increase as well as things become smaller. I personally like that my mini doesn't sound like a jet plane like my old windows desktop. I have to say I am intrigued by the rumored fanless 12" macbook.
 
Crosscreek said:
But what happens when ARMs have the power of x86 processors and are a lot cheaper.

What do you do with those chips?

Sooner or later they are going to migrate to laptops just because of battery life and efficiency.

AnandTech claims that the only bottleneck for the A7 from being a desktop computer chip is the RAM.

Apple has solved that problem with partnering for DDR4 manufacturing.

More ARM design work is moving inside Apple.

Something has to come of the chips other than run a phone or tablet.

I'm not advocating the Mini ARM but I think the future will be these chips for mobile computing and even though the Mini is not really mobile it follows that platform.
Click to expand...

Ultimately it is not ARM that bothers me. It's the glued together Internet appliances that seems to be Apple's target. That is not to say that the products would be bad, they're just not of interest to me.
 
I sure hope the broadwell doesnt delay the mini another year D: I hope they release a 2014 version; broadwell, haswell, no difference to me, as long as it has improved graphics! :D
 
I think if we were going to release with Haswell they'd have done it by now, perhaps with a minor redesign to shuffle ports (swapping FireWire for probably a second Thunderbolt port).

But with no sign of that happening I'm inclined to agree that Broadwell is seeming pretty likely; it will make a lot more sense as part of a Mac Mini redesign, since any reduction in size will benefit from Broadwell's greater power/heat efficiency. Of course I'm hoping Apple aren't going to reduce the size too much (NUCs sacrifice too much for their size IMO); personally I like having the internal power supply, and I think it makes sense for the Mac Mini to stay big enough for a VESA mount (ideally with Apple including holes for it for once), but that's partly my personal bias. Still, I'd rather the Mac Mini got a bigger fan rather than getting even smaller, sure it's already pretty quiet, but it could be even quieter under load, which a bigger fan in some of the empty space could really help with.

However, if it is Broadwell that they're waiting for then it seems unlikely we'll get a Mac Mini update until after the iMacs are updated, which means September or so for them, maybe with the Mac Minis at the same time or shortly afterwards. Disappointing, as I was hoping to have had a Haswell upgrade to buy by now, as the current Mac Minis don't quite meet my needs as-is, and I'm conscious of their decreasing value for money thanks to the lack of an update.
 
I agree with the posts that basically say the Mini is going to get Airport-ified. Predicted specs:

Design: Size of Airport Time Capsule, maybe 20% bigger, but the height will remain the same as the current mini.

Storage: PCI-e Flash. (The Mac Pro's, Retina MacBooks, and iMac's are paying off R&D)

CPU: i3/5/7 Broadwell Dual and Quad, running at 2.66GHz and 2.9GHz or 3.1GHz.

Wi-Fi: 802.11ac integrated into the CPU. (Broadwell has integrated Wi-Fi)

GPU: The next-generation Iris GPUs. Also integrated into the CPU.

I/O: 4 USB 3.0 Ports, Two Thunderbolt 2.0 Ports. Audio Input/Output. HDMI Output. SDXC Port.

Cost: $499/$599, $699/$799. Apple dropped the price of the MacBook Pro Retina which was a very "un-Apple" move, so you never know. The smaller size and integrated components could allow Apple to drop the price.





@Crosscreek: Thanks!
 
SolarShane said:
I agree with the posts that basically say the Mini is going to get Airport-ified. Predicted specs:

Design: Size of Airport Time Capsule, maybe 20% bigger, but the height will remain the same as the current mini.

Storage: PCI-e Flash. (The Mac Pro's, Retina MacBooks, and iMac's are paying off R&D)

CPU: i3/5/7 Broadwell Dual and Quad, running at 2.66GHz and 2.9GHz or 3.1GHz.

Wi-Fi: 802.11ac integrated into the CPU. (Broadwell has integrated Wi-Fi)

GPU: The next-generation Iris GPUs. Also integrated into the CPU.

I/O: 4 USB 3.0 Ports, Two Thunderbolt 2.0 Ports. Audio Input/Output. HDMI Output. SDXC Port.

Cost: $499/$599, $699/$799. Apple dropped the price of the MacBook Pro Retina which was a very "un-Apple" move, so you never know. The smaller size and integrated components could allow Apple to drop the price.

@Crosscreek: Thanks!
Click to expand...

I like your idea with the following changes;

Design: Exact size of the current Time Capsule including the height.

Storage: The is plenty of room inside a Time Capsule to replace the 3.5" HDD bay with a single PCI-e slot and two 2.5" HDD bays. The base model could come with one 2.5" drive with options from there.

I/O: It's time the mini gets a decent number of USB ports. Four USB3 and four USB2 would bring it up to current standards. Two TB2 and one HDMI would round out the set.

User Configuration: Unsnap the bottom and lift off the top. Snap-in HDD bays and RAM slots would be right there without fiddling with the logic board. Put all of the ports on a vertical plastic panel like current and past minis so when the top is removed nothing has to be unplugged.
 
scottsjack said:
I like your idea with the following changes;

Design: Exact size of the current Time Capsule including the height.

Storage: The is plenty of room inside a Time Capsule to replace the 3.5" HDD bay with a single PCI-e slot and two 2.5" HDD bays. The base model could come with one 2.5" drive with options from there.

I/O: It's time the mini gets a decent number of USB ports. Four USB3 and four USB2 would bring it up to current standards. Two TB2 and one HDMI would round out the set.

User Configuration: Unsnap the bottom and lift off the top. Snap-in HDD bays and RAM slots would be right there without fiddling with the logic board. Put all of the ports on a vertical plastic panel like current and past minis so when the top is removed nothing has to be unplugged.
Click to expand...

I kind of like my SDXC card slot. :)

HDMI 1.4 :)

I hope that cheap IMac is not meant to take over the Mini market. There was talk of doing away with the Mini last year and replacing with cheap IMac. :mad:
 
I have analyzed all posts in this thread. And I think that what we are all trying to say is...

that at the end of the day, it should be a LAW that Apple upgrade/refresh the mini and if they do not, they immediately owe us the next refreshed model at 50% off. No, wait a minute. Free.

AND

They can NEVER discontinue it without the approval of everyone in this thread.

We also allow them to "fork" the mini, if necessary, to have a model more like the current one but refreshed and also a smaller, newer, different mini.

This way, all of our hard work on this thread will not be in vain.

And, you knew it was coming...everything they ever do or announce about the mini simply HAS to be on a Tuesday.

Yay Apple!
 
scottsjack said:
I like your idea with the following changes;

Design: Exact size of the current Time Capsule including the height.

Storage: The is plenty of room inside a Time Capsule to replace the 3.5" HDD bay with a single PCI-e slot and two 2.5" HDD bays. The base model could come with one 2.5" drive with options from there.

I/O: It's time the mini gets a decent number of USB ports. Four USB3 and four USB2 would bring it up to current standards. Two TB2 and one HDMI would round out the set.

User Configuration: Unsnap the bottom and lift off the top. Snap-in HDD bays and RAM slots would be right there without fiddling with the logic board. Put all of the ports on a vertical plastic panel like current and past minis so when the top is removed nothing has to be unplugged.
Click to expand...

I agree with the posts that basically say the Mini is going to get Airport-ified. Predicted specs:

Design: Size of Airport Time Capsule, maybe 20% bigger, but the height will remain the same as the current mini.

Storage: PCI-e Flash. (The Mac Pro's, Retina MacBooks, and iMac's are paying off R&D)

CPU: i3/5/7 Broadwell Dual and Quad, running at 2.66GHz and 2.9GHz or 3.1GHz.

Wi-Fi: 802.11ac integrated into the CPU. (Broadwell has integrated Wi-Fi)

GPU: The next-generation Iris GPUs. Also integrated into the CPU.

I/O: 4 USB 3.0 Ports, Two Thunderbolt 2.0 Ports. Audio Input/Output. HDMI Output. SDXC Port.

Cost: $499/$599, $699/$799. Apple dropped the price of the MacBook Pro Retina which was a very "un-Apple" move, so you never know. The smaller size and integrated components could allow Apple to drop the price.

@Crosscreek: Thanks!

I really like all the ideas above. Yes! This Tuesday! Please God!
 
riggles said:
If there's one thing history should teach us about Apple, it's that when Apple wants something to go away, they put it away.
Click to expand...

Or it fades away...........

I know many of us have a passion for our Mini.

I hope it gets a Broadwell processor. I would like to see DDR4 but that won't happen until the generation after Broadwell and we could have ARM by then.

I am happy with this 2012 I5 and it will not be replaced until 4k and for me that's a year or 2 away because of prices and because of ISP speed for streaming. They need to fiberoptic me and that will be ,,,,,,well who knows.

The IPad and phone gets the upgrade this year and I'll see how things progress for 2015. :cool:
 
Mr. Retrofire said:
A new logic board for the Haswell platform makes no sense, because the Haswell Mac mini would come with the newer (2014) Haswell CPU, and therefore zero options for future Haswell upgrades.
Click to expand...

Er, aren't Broadwell chips the "future Haswell upgrades", they use the same socket and chipset designs, etc?

Anyway, there's no reason why there isn't a Haswell mini, be it with the original or the refreshed chips; waiting for Broadwell is doable, especially since the mini isn't apparently a priority, but it's odd.
 
Last edited:
That's not a reason to delay the mini. It could have received an annual update with haswell, then another with broadwell. I find the delay to be a bit odd for something incremental.
 
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