Buy a Merom/Conroe soon? Pros and cons for the undecided

[t0mat0]

How many people are deciding between, getting an upgraded Apple (Conroe/Merom) e.g. getting a MBP now, or waiting till Santa Rosa in early Q2 2007?

What benefits are there from waiting for Santa Rosa, rather than buying now? E.g. You're looking for a laptop that'll last for a good few years - is it better to wait a few weeks, or to wait a few months? Or just get a Merom/Conroe Apple, use it for 6 months, then then sell it on Ebay early 2007?
Pros and cons?

Edit - Just to clarify - I'm a Mac convert, who hasn't bought yet, considering a MBP purchase, but with a working but old PC laptop on XP. I'm looking to check that MBP will run Leopard well, and what a Santa Rosa upgrade would do to the MBP? Does anyone have details about the upgrades coming early 2007 expected? (I know it's a long shot, as e.g. the 802.11n standard hasn't been finalised yet etc.)

 

[Queso]

Well, firstly there aren't any Merom/Conroe models announced yet. All the Intel models are either based on Yonah or Woodcrest processors, although at some point either or both of the Core 2 Duos are going to appear.

As for waiting further than that, if you play that game you'll never buy another computer. There's always something much better six months away. If I were you I'd see whether anything gets announced at Paris. If they update any Yonah models to Meroms buy then.

 

[miles01110]

I decided to get a new machine in early July, and since rumors about Merom were beginning to really pick up around then I decided to wait until the WWDC keynote on August 8 before going out and actually buying one. By early August a significant majority thought that Merom would be announced in the MBP not at WWDC, but in early September. That being said, about an hour after the keynote I bought my Macbook Pro.

If you get a MBP now you have it immediately. It's still a wonderful machine, the nicest one I have ever owned in pretty much every area of consideration (speed, design, software, even battery life beats my old black g3). It might be outdated in about 2 weeks, but it doesn't really matter to me- mainly because its a great machine regardless of whether or not the new ones have a new chip that is "faster" (faster chips do not translate into faster performance of Microsoft Office, and minimal gains only for common, every day applications such as iLife). The biggest myth about Merom is that it will be some kind of miraculous improvement over the Yonah chip. Probably 80-90% of all Merom users won't be able to tell the difference from the Yonah. The 20% performance gain is only going to shine in high-end, professional applications, and even then if you don't have enough RAM you're screwed.

That's my take on the situation. It's silly to wait forever, as Apple will always have something better coming out. It's been happening since the Apple II. I remember when the Performa series was the hype, as well as the Powermac towers (180 MHz!), the iMac revolution, G4, etc. If you need it then why waste time? You're not going to have any regrets buying any Brand-new Mac.

 

[t0mat0]

I'm all for the not waiting more than it's necessary to get an upgraded MBP!

Put another way, for those looking to buy now as soon as Merom/Conroe get added, and are looking to upgrade again earlyish next year, what if any, do people know about Santa Rosa that's worth the upgrade?

How big a leap of technology is for example:
- The FSB clock of Merom will be upped to 800MHz,
- The Crestine chipset
- Kedron possibilities (WiFi/802.11n)
- DirectX10 support

 

[dmw007]

I think that I would just go for a Merom based MacBook Pro- it will be able to run Mac OS X 10.5 just fine. You could wait forever to buy a new laptop if you keep worrying about having the latest & greatest, if you need a new computer now, buy with confidence that you are getting a great machine that will last you for years to come.

 

[MovieCutter]

We need another one of these threads???

<<rips hair out of head and runs to the hills screaming from madness!>>

I think that I would just go for a Merom based MacBook Pro- it will be able to run Mac OS X 10.5 just fine.

My Yonah MacBook runs Leopard "just fine". It's a brand new machine for christ sake...it runs Leopard GREAT. Why would you need to wait until the NEXT revision MBP to run Leopard???

 

[dmw007]

My Yonah MacBook runs Leopard "just fine". It's a brand new machine for christ sake...it runs Leopard GREAT. Why would you need to wait until the NEXT revision MBP to run Leopard???

I agree, there is no need to wait for a Merom based MacBook Pro to run Mac OS X 10.5- a Yonah MB/MBP will be more than fast enough. But the OP was considering waiting for Santa Rosa, and I was just reassuring t0mat0 that a Merom based MBP will be sufficient for his/her needs.

 

[t0mat0]

We need another one of these threads???

Well, I wanted to be quite specific:

1)I am looking for info about Merom/Conroe upgraded Macs with respect to Leopard - what differences would there be between these (due any Tuesday soon...) and the Macs that'll come out in parallel with Leopard, (Santa Rosa timeframe).

2) Does anyone knew more about Santa Rosa / the next generation? If there was a big increase in performace for May time 2007, then (Leopard is early 2007 etc etc), then I'd be the first to actually buy now, so that I get benefit now, and upgrade when needed, with a Mac in hand working in the interim.

Why would you need to wait until the NEXT revision MBP to run Leopard???

I'd wait till the Merom version, then buy. I'm also interested in what's to come. Core 2 Duo Merom laptops are on order from other suppliers, and Buyers Guide is full to bursting with "Don't buy now, wait till next Tuesday" notices As I mentioned, for me, it'd be my first purchase, so I can wait till say, the Paris Expo. XP ain't changing anytime soon! I'm only just getting up to speed on Macs, before purchasing, and can't see why not wait for the Merom upgrades at least. That upgrade is an imminent (few weeks at most) thing, and I'm not stuck in buying right now this minute. Others might be. If I was, I'd be happy with a MBP right now.

As far as I knew, Mac OS X v10.5 "Leopard"'s release is Spring 2007. So isn't wanting to know what will run it a legitimate question?

3) I was also curious as to how many people are deciding between, getting an upgraded Apple (Conroe/Merom) e.g. getting an Apple (e.g. MBP) now, waiting a few weeks for the Merom/Conroe version or waiting till Santa Rosa in early Q2 2007?

 

[matttrick]

my biggest concern is this. sure right now 64 bit wont make that big a difference. however, down the line i think it will be good to have even the first 64 bit chip. im going to try real hard to hold off until something is in stone. if merom is months off ill buy. if its 2 weeks, ill suffer.

 

[extraextra]

As far as I knew, Mac OS X v10.5 "Leopard"'s release is Spring 2007. So isn't wanting to know what will run it a legitimate question?

3) I was also curious as to how many people are deciding between, getting an upgraded Apple (Conroe/Merom) e.g. getting an Apple (e.g. MBP) now, waiting a few weeks for the Merom/Conroe version or waiting till Santa Rosa in early Q2 2007?

Leopard is guarenteed to run on G4 machines, so uh, I think the MB/MBP will be ok.

I'm not sure what your second question is? You're just asking if people are buying now, waiting for Merom, or waiting till Santa Rosa? I'm most likely waiting till Santa Rosa (or later) because I am buying a 12" PB soon. Then next year I will buy a MBP.

 

[Samberino]

In Feb of this year, I bought a MBP - the best darn decision I ever made. It was the 'switch' I had been planning on making for the past couple of years.

I love my MBP to bits, and currently in the process of getting my battery swapped (MBP Battery Exchange programme). It does all that I need to get done, and then some. I plan on keeping it until Q2/Q3 of next year, which is when I plan to sell it and buy an MBP at the time of Santa Rosa with Robson technology (NAND Flash). This only makes sense, as the Merom MBPs which are due to be launched shortly will in all probability have just the processor upgrade (with perhaps a few slight changes).

Buying a MBP in Q2/Q3 of next year will allow you to have a machine that:
- Comes with Mac OS Leopard
- Boots up dramatically faster boot time & application launch/start-up time(NAND Flash)
- 800 MHz FSB compared with 667 MHz of today & therefore faster memory
- 802.11n WiMAX

Just my opinion (for what its worth).

 

[Reep]

I'm holding off for the next launch, hopefully in September.

My first choice would be a black merom MB with a video card.
A close second would be a 23" iMac with a core 2 duo chip.

Since I don't think either of those are likely, I will probably decide between a merom MB (getting an iMac after Leopard) or a C2D iMac (getting a 13" laptop at some point in the next year or so). The iMac is in the lead, but if the iMac is not upgraded and the MB is, then I will get the MB.

 

[gadgetgirl85]

In Feb of this year, I bought a MBP - the best darn decision I ever made. It was the 'switch' I had been planning on making for the past couple of years.

I love my MBP to bits, and currently in the process of getting my battery swapped (MBP Battery Exchange programme). It does all that I need to get done, and then some. I plan on keeping it until Q2/Q3 of next year, which is when I plan to sell it and buy an MBP at the time of Santa Rosa with Robson technology (NAND Flash). This only makes sense, as the Merom MBPs which are due to be launched shortly will in all probability have just the processor upgrade (with perhaps a few slight changes).

Buying a MBP in Q2/Q3 of next year will allow you to have a machine that:
- Comes with Mac OS Leopard
- Boots up dramatically faster boot time & application launch/start-up time(NAND Flash)
- 800 MHz FSB compared with 667 MHz of today & therefore faster memory
- 802.11n WiMAX

Just my opinion (for what its worth).

People don't seem to get that the merom upgrade is a small upgrade and nothing work writing home about for low end users. Bigger upgrades will be next year. They think next week (or whenever) this magical chip will make the MBPS 1000x better well they will be disappointed! Besides the MBP is perfect the way it is now

 

[Emrtr4]

I am waiting for Santa Rosa

First off, there are other features I want than just a new processor.

I currently have a 2003 Powerbook G4 (1.5 ghz, 2 gigs ram, 80 gig hardrive 5400 RPM, 15 inch)

So it is still holding in there for every day work. I plan on keeping it around until next year and still have my apple care working.

There are a few things that I would like to see in a new apple computer.

A new processor, with Santa Rosa we will get faster Ram speed (800 v. 667), faster front side bus, new socket (which means upgrade in the future) and also expect speeds of about 2.6ghz.

All of those things are BIG improvments over what I have now, while a simple Core duo or Core Two Duo would not be worth $3K in my opinion, if I could just wait a little longer and get a much better product.

Also, I hope by then (I plan to buy in Q2-Q3 07) that there will be NAND ram (for faster loading of OSX) Leapord will be released (So that I won't have to go out and buy the OS seperatly and spend more money) the battery issues and heat issues will most defanitly be resolved and of course a 250 gig hardrive will have be availible (every other comp maker has them now, except Apple).

Plus the new ATI X1700 XT wich offers some improvments over the current X1600, that is expected to be released this fall.

Overall, by then I expect to see improvments in every aspect of the Apple MBP line (graphics, processor, memory, hardrive, screen res, batter life, heat issues, fan issues, new OS) so I think my money would be much better spent.

 

[gadgetgirl85]

First off, there are other features I want than just a new processor.

I currently have a 2003 Powerbook G4 (1.5 ghz, 2 gigs ram, 80 gig hardrive 5400 RPM, 15 inch)

So it is still holding in there for every day work. I plan on keeping it around until next year and still have my apple care working.

There are a few things that I would like to see in a new apple computer.

A new processor, with Santa Rosa we will get faster Ram speed (800 v. 667), faster front side bus, new socket (which means upgrade in the future) and also expect speeds of about 2.6ghz.

All of those things are BIG improvments over what I have now, while a simple Core duo or Core Two Duo would not be worth $3K in my opinion, if I could just wait a little longer and get a much better product.

Also, I hope by then (I plan to buy in Q2-Q3 07) that there will be NAND ram (for faster loading of OSX) Leapord will be released (So that I won't have to go out and buy the OS seperatly and spend more money) the battery issues and heat issues will most defanitly be resolved and of course a 250 gig hardrive will have be availible (every other comp maker has them now, except Apple).

Plus the new ATI X1700 XT wich offers some improvments over the current X1600, that is expected to be released this fall.

Overall, by then I expect to see improvments in every aspect of the Apple MBP line (graphics, processor, memory, hardrive, screen res, batter life, heat issues, fan issues, new OS) so I think my money would be much better spent.

Hey technology always gets better and better and better. The longer you wait the more updated the system. But you can play the waiting game the rest of your life You can never beat technology!

 

[t0mat0]

Do you think that Apple users are having to overcome any jealousy issues here? I mean, it's both Apple users, and Apple that are going through the changes of having (hopefully) a shorter length of time before upgrades/supercedants are announced on a product line (maybe less so ipods, but competition is ramping up there too).

More people had similar configs as the time fore updates of say the MacBook line took ~1 year. If you're looking at say 2-3 months per press release on a certain line, less people will be in lock-step over configurations/where they are in their own buying cycle (Buy a PC, use it normally for a bit, start to feel the lag, getting envious/window shopping/lust/ then decide, and buy new purchase and repeat).

More updates might smooth the marketplace for orders hopefully though, potentially stopping people waiting so much for the next big thing?

Emrtr4 posts similar sentiments to me - currently I don't think that the improvements now justify buying now, over the bigger improvements following the Intel movements, about what Santa Rosa/early 2007 tech will hold.

Or more specifically, it might not be worth buying for some now, unless youcan buy and resell, without losing too much (a bit like phones, in terms of resale value for the reseller getting next year's model, versus buying the phone, and using to destruction and not recouping some of the initial cost).

Every aspect will be vamped - (and some is overdue) - Graphics, CPU, memory (NAND RAM), storage (perp),OS (Leopard), less heat issues, .... It's that eternal race to get to the technology horizon I guess.

Maybe it's a feeling of [probably getting more value for money next Spring?

 

[generik]

Thing is apart from Mac users I don't even heard people (ie: PC users) talk about Santa Rosa, what this means I don't know, perhaps Mac users are easily fleeced and buy into koolaid easily.

Personally I am not waiting for Santa Rosa, only cool thing going for it at this stage is Robson caching, there wouldn't even be 802.11n since ratification for that standard has been pushed back to 2008. The new 800Mhz bus? Well, even my Conroe box running with a 1066Mhz bus doesn't seem anything special, all these numbers and figures are just hype, they do nothing.

 

[dmw007]

I don't know, perhaps Mac users are easily fleeced and buy into koolaid easily.

Koolaid *slurp* what *gulp* koolaid are you reffering to generik?

 

[t0mat0]

Thing is apart from Mac users I don't even heard people (ie: PC users) talk about Santa Rosa, what this means I don't know, perhaps Mac users are easily fleeced and buy into koolaid easily.

Personally I am not waiting for Santa Rosa, only cool thing going for it at this stage is Robson caching, there wouldn't even be 802.11n since ratification for that standard has been pushed back to 2008. The new 800Mhz bus? Well, even my Conroe box running with a 1066Mhz bus doesn't seem anything special, all these numbers and figures are just hype, they do nothing.

You could spend/waste/burn $1000 - $3000 on say a MB/MBP. At that price, you aren't talking Optiplex Dell customers. If you checked with a PC user spending 1-3k on a laptop say, I would hope that they'd checked the market, if not the upcoming future products, or at least where laptops were in terms of chip cycles.

The new chips from Intel are being made to really use Merom/Centrino - it might be pure hype, but I think that the Merom & this mobo /chipset is a stop-gap to spring 2007 products.
Heck - I might have to use Vista on it - your Apple needs all the strengths it can have to be ready for that behemoth.

I thought there were draft 802.11n chips/routers out there/being produced this quarter?

 

[extraextra]

People don't seem to get that the merom upgrade is a small upgrade and nothing work writing home about for low end users. Bigger upgrades will be next year. They think next week (or whenever) this magical chip will make the MBPS 1000x better well they will be disappointed! Besides the MBP is perfect the way it is now

It's also 64 bit. Which some people are waiting for, rather than the miniscule speed increase.

 

[gadgetgirl85]

It's also 64 bit. Which some people are waiting for, rather than the miniscule speed increase.

But by the time programs start really utilizing 64 bit it will be time to get a new computer

 

[swingerofbirch]

I am horrible at deciding between two unnanounced products!

Just out of curiosity what sort of work does someone do that requires more power than what is going to be available with Merom?

For pete's sake, CNN uses FCP to edit footage on the run with Powerbook G4s!

Have you ever seen Microsoft's mac development lab? It's filled with aging Macs!

I have have made some amazing iMovies on a 500 mhz ibook.

At the same time I am hoping a new iMac comes out soon. That's just cos I want to get what's fresh.

But I don't understand waiting a whole other cycle.

 

[gadgetgirl85]

I am horrible at deciding between two unnanounced products!

Just out of curiosity what sort of work does someone do that requires more power than what is going to be available with Merom?

For pete's sake, CNN uses FCP to edit footage on the run with Powerbook G4s!

Have you ever seen Microsoft's mac development lab? It's filled with aging Macs!

I have have made some amazing iMovies on a 500 mhz ibook.

At the same time I am hoping a new iMac comes out soon. That's just cos I want to get what's fresh.

But I don't understand waiting a whole other cycle.

I really take my hat off to people who stick to old technology and not need the latest model. I really don't know why I do though But older machines can do the job just as well as new ones. I was very tempted to buy a powerbook as they ran great at the shop but went MBP instead.

 

[Flynnstone]

Since this is all speculation at this point, here goes :
I think ALL Mac should be dual processor/core, however you want to look at it. And 64 bit.
So ...
Mini and Macbook : Merom
Macbook Pro and iMac : Conroe
Mac Pro Woodcrest

Good, Better, Best
All 64 bit & all duals.

 

[gadgetgirl85]

Why would they put conroe in the MBP isnt it more of a desktop chip? Wouldn't it be more likely MBP and MB Merom MP Woodcrest Imac Conroe Mini...I don't know?

Since this is all speculation at this point, here goes :
I think ALL Mac should be dual processor/core, however you want to look at it. And 64 bit.
So ...
Mini and Macbook : Merom
Macbook Pro and iMac : Conroe
Mac Pro Woodcrest

Good, Better, Best
All 64 bit & all duals.