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Buying a cMP and my head is starting to hurt please help!
- Thread starter slrm94
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Hi Everyone,
I am throwing everything I have at this which with bank loans will be about £4000ish (which after looking at prices means the New Cylinder is out the window)
I don't get it. Why buy a old computer? The nMP, although not for anyone(i NEED nvidia Quadro and dual Xeons since my main business is 3d animation and renderings - hence i switched to Dell, otherwise i would have remained with Apple) is leaps and bound better than the old one for workflows like yours. I would search for something like this instead:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Apple-Mac...916272?hash=item33bbbad730:g:mPYAAOSwvg9XX0WF
Thanks for letting me know! That's why I wrote this post as there is lot of great knowledge in this forum and this is a massive chunk of money for me
I may just go with 1 large PCI-E M.2 card (SM951 (I think 512 is the biggest on the Angelbird Wings))
[doublepost=1482623936][/doublepost]
Thanks but I simply can't afford the 12 core nMP, that link with VAT + shipping is £5,991.466 plus I need more storage so thats a thunderbolt NAS on top
i got my macpro 5.1 on gumtree for £500 about a year ago & that was not the cheapest one!
iv seen plenty of dual cpu 4.1/5.1 for about £800 UK price
i upgraded the cpu myself from a 4core 2.8ghz to a 6 core 3.33ghz cost under £90 (including thermal past etc)
32GB ram on ebay cost me under £50
gpu's can be goten used on ebay and you dont need it flashed (iv used 2 pc cards not flashed with no problems)
was my first ever cpu install, it was easy
ram is super easy to install
just grab a pc card and you relay dont need to pay to get it flashed >.< vary few people need a flashed card (there are a few that do but it's rare)
id relay look at a hackingtosh, if you need speed. (it will be a lot cheaper and faster !)
i do understand fast storage is good but the base price of the unit is not worth £2,195.00
iv seen plenty of dual cpu 4.1/5.1 for about £800 UK price
i upgraded the cpu myself from a 4core 2.8ghz to a 6 core 3.33ghz cost under £90 (including thermal past etc)
32GB ram on ebay cost me under £50
gpu's can be goten used on ebay and you dont need it flashed (iv used 2 pc cards not flashed with no problems)
was my first ever cpu install, it was easy
ram is super easy to install
just grab a pc card and you relay dont need to pay to get it flashed >.< vary few people need a flashed card (there are a few that do but it's rare)
id relay look at a hackingtosh, if you need speed. (it will be a lot cheaper and faster !)
i do understand fast storage is good but the base price of the unit is not worth £2,195.00
If you do go through with it, you might want a USB 3 Card in one of those PCI slots, it would be the cheapest thing on the list, and they're very handy.Hi Everyone,
First Off sorry for all the writing. Would you have a look over the "new" MacPro im specing out and play spot the stupid decision
OLD MAC+BUDGET:
I have been looking to upgrade the my faithful MP for a while .......
Mac Pro (Early 2008), 2 x 3 GHz Quad-Core, 24 GB 800MHz DDR2, ATI Radeon HD 5770, 4TB (2xSamsung Spinpoint F1's + 2xSamsung Spinpoint F3's). It's main jobs are Logic Pro, Adobe AE+Photoshop, Media centre for the house.
I am throwing everything I have at this which with bank loans will be about £4000ish (which after looking at prices means the New Cylinder is out the window
NEW MAC:
I started looking for a good source for 2012 MacPros and found CreatePro in the UK. I will buy most bits separately apart from the GPU's which they charge £50 to fit (is that worth it/am I right in thinking with the GT120 included the 980ti might not even be flashed so It's simply a case of plugging them in?)
Processor: 3.46GHz 12 Core Xeon X5690 Mac Pro 5,1 (2012) £2,195.00
GPU / PCI-e slot 1: Nvidia GTX 980ti 6GB with GT120 £795.00
Memory: 48GB (6x8GB samsung DDR3 1333mHz ECC Ram) £120.00
Total: £3,110.00
The RAM seems suspiciously cheep, most sites seem to range from £320 - 380 (Crucial) so not sure if to buy my own, what do you think?
My headache began when specking out the parts...........
NewMac
Processor: 3.46GHz 12 Core Xeon X5690 Mac Pro 5,1 (2012) £2,195.00
GPU / PCI-e slot 1: Nvidia GTX 980ti 6GB with GT120 £795.00
Memory: 48GB (6x8GB) £120.00
STORAGE PCI: Samsung 960 Pro 1TB £512.79 - Audio Drive+Scratch Disk
STORAGE PCI: Angelbird Wings PX1 with Samsung SM951 512GB £487.00 - Boot Drive
STORAGE SATA: Western Digital Red Pro 4TB £199.00 - Archive
STORAGE SATA: Western Digital Red Pro 4TB £199.00 - Archive
STORAGE SATA: Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB £86.99 - Download Drive
OldMac
STORAGE SATA: Western Digital Red Pro 4TB £199.00 - Archive
TOTAL = £4,594.78
My dilemma after choosing the above kit was; if the old MP becomes a Media Centre then I don't know how to best transfer data between them? I thought I could directly connect using an Ethernet cable(Will drill a hole in the wall).
Obviously this limits transfers with 1Gig NIC's to 125MBps, so I have been considering fitting 10 Gigabit Ethernet cards but this seems like overkill as the WDRedPro max out at 218MBps and the cards are £230.47 each?
I could drop a 850 EVO in the old mac with the NICs but this would bring the total to over £5000 .... Can anyone think of a better method?
Thanks but I simply can't afford the 12 core nMP, that link with VAT + shipping is £5,991.466 plus I need more storage so thats a thunderbolt NAS on top [/QUOTE]
I gave you that link just to see that there are cheaper new macpro available. you can see on eba.de some samples. plus i don't think you pay VAT on used items....
http://www.ebay.de/sch/Apple-Deskto...einungsjahr=2013&rt=nc&_trksid=p2045573.m1684
http://www.ebay.de/itm/2013-Apple-M...-1-/252619122929?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368
Just do a comprehensive search and you will find a dream mac pro for your 4k pounds.
[/QUOTE]I gave you that link just to see that there are cheaper new macpro available. you can see on eba.de some samples. plus i don't think you pay VAT on used items....
http://www.ebay.de/sch/Apple-Deskto...einungsjahr=2013&rt=nc&_trksid=p2045573.m1684
http://www.ebay.de/itm/2013-Apple-M...-1-/252619122929?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368
Just do a comprehensive search and you will find a dream mac pro for your 4k pounds.
Being myself an owner of a 5,1 MP, I can't fault the logic of choosing a real computer for real needs.
That said, I second the view that 4+k£ for what essentially is an old computer is ludicrous.
Here's how I see it:
alternative cMP
Get a 5,1, or rather two (so you can switch over components when something breaks, and given the age of the machine, something will sooner or later), but get it cheap. Base 5,1 MPs can be had at around 500€.
- get a couple of 6 core xeons (a pair of X5675's or something above that if you want the extra oomph)
- do the upgrade yourself, or ask someone to do it for you.
- put in as much ram as you like (it's cheap). Budget so far < 1000€ or < 1500 € for two machines (as I would do it here at the edge of the eurozone)
- Get the GPU you need wherever you feel is the least hassle. I (not needing every ounce of power) went for a pair of used reference (PC) 680 GTX's (cost me 150€ for 2) and flash if you want the bootscreen (I only use one, the second is as a backup)
- Get whatever internal storage you need (HDD's are cheap, and the upgrade is no trouble, so futureproofing does not make economic sense. Buy the capacity you need + 50-100%, no economic sense going for the biggest drives).
- Get the PCI-SSD's you need (again, YMMV, but I think your capacities are on the unnecessarily spacious side)
• My guess (and I'm slightly more limited accesswise and pay more for delivery) is that this could be easily done with less than 3000€.
• Remember, that the cMP is limited not only by its age, but also that you will never get any faster connections than USB3/10Gethernet. On the other hand, you get a computer which does anything you throw at it without making noise.
used nMP
as some here have pointed out, you can get nMP's significantly cheaper that that budget, if you go the used/refurbished route. You'll have to get some Thunderbolt disks though, but that might be a sensible investment in any case.
iMac
Eventhough I would not go this route (I'm noise-sensitive), I dare to throw in that option, because the retina iMac's are blazingly fast, especially for all tasks which cannot fully utilise 4+ cores. Again, your storage needs would rely on external TB2 storage, but as far as I can see you can get a (new) maxed-out iMac(r) for around 3500£ and for another 1000£ you could get a nice TB-based external storage solution.
In any case, I wish you luck on whatever path you choose
Oh? I thinks this is the limitation of the nMP, but not the cMP. The cMP can have USB 3.0 because it has PCIe slot. When Anything faster coming out (e.g. USB 4.0), the cMP still has a chance to upgrade. In fact, this also happen on the network speed. nMP only has 1Gb ethernet, but the cMP can have 10Gb ethernet because you can install the PCIe card by yourself.
Basically, the real limit so far are CPU, RAM, Thunderbolt... because all these are bonded to the logic board, you can't upgrade these parts without changing the logic board. Any other parts that can be upgrade via PCIe card, the cMP still stand a chance, until one day that the new connection protocol's bandwidth reach 8000MB/s (the theoretical max bandwidth of PCIe 2.0 x16), then we really hit the wall that "we can never get anything faster than that).
Even though the real world max for PCIe 2.0 x16 is just about 6000MB/s, that's still plenty of room for the cMP to "improve" when you compare it to the USB 3.0 / 10Gb ethernet.
Seems kind of obvious you just want to trick out a cMP regardless that even the cMP diehards are telling you this doesn't make sense to spend that kind of money. On top of that, you're spending thousands on extra gear that is crazy overkill for your needs.Hi Everyone,
First Off sorry for all the writing. Would you have a look over the "new" MacPro im specing out and play spot the stupid decision
OLD MAC+BUDGET:
I have been looking to upgrade the my faithful MP for a while .......
Mac Pro (Early 2008), 2 x 3 GHz Quad-Core, 24 GB 800MHz DDR2, ATI Radeon HD 5770, 4TB (2xSamsung Spinpoint F1's + 2xSamsung Spinpoint F3's). It's main jobs are Logic Pro, Adobe AE+Photoshop, Media centre for the house.
I am throwing everything I have at this which with bank loans will be about £4000ish (which after looking at prices means the New Cylinder is out the window
NEW MAC:
I started looking for a good source for 2012 MacPros and found CreatePro in the UK. I will buy most bits separately apart from the GPU's which they charge £50 to fit (is that worth it/am I right in thinking with the GT120 included the 980ti might not even be flashed so It's simply a case of plugging them in?)
Processor: 3.46GHz 12 Core Xeon X5690 Mac Pro 5,1 (2012) £2,195.00
GPU / PCI-e slot 1: Nvidia GTX 980ti 6GB with GT120 £795.00
Memory: 48GB (6x8GB samsung DDR3 1333mHz ECC Ram) £120.00
Total: £3,110.00
The RAM seems suspiciously cheep, most sites seem to range from £320 - 380 (Crucial) so not sure if to buy my own, what do you think?
My headache began when specking out the parts...........
NewMac
Processor: 3.46GHz 12 Core Xeon X5690 Mac Pro 5,1 (2012) £2,195.00
GPU / PCI-e slot 1: Nvidia GTX 980ti 6GB with GT120 £795.00
Memory: 48GB (6x8GB) £120.00
STORAGE PCI: Samsung 960 Pro 1TB £512.79 - Audio Drive+Scratch Disk
STORAGE PCI: Angelbird Wings PX1 with Samsung SM951 512GB £487.00 - Boot Drive
STORAGE SATA: Western Digital Red Pro 4TB £199.00 - Archive
STORAGE SATA: Western Digital Red Pro 4TB £199.00 - Archive
STORAGE SATA: Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB £86.99 - Download Drive
OldMac
STORAGE SATA: Western Digital Red Pro 4TB £199.00 - Archive
TOTAL = £4,594.78
My dilemma after choosing the above kit was; if the old MP becomes a Media Centre then I don't know how to best transfer data between them? I thought I could directly connect using an Ethernet cable(Will drill a hole in the wall).
Obviously this limits transfers with 1Gig NIC's to 125MBps, so I have been considering fitting 10 Gigabit Ethernet cards but this seems like overkill as the WDRedPro max out at 218MBps and the cards are £230.47 each?
I could drop a 850 EVO in the old mac with the NICs but this would bring the total to over £5000 .... Can anyone think of a better method?
Maybe you should consider a Hackintosh instead, since you're going to be dealing with just as much headache?
However, it's your money, and as a hobby, there's just as silly ways to spend money. For pretty much anyone else considering this, this would be considered pretty nutty.
you should look into https://macbank.co.uk/product-category/mac-pro/mac-pro-51/ (formerly scrumpymacs) - haven't used before but i'm considering it to replace my 3,1
You are not limited to expensive Thunderbolt peripherals as the iMac has four USB3 ports which can be used for connecting external storage.
True, but when compared to the speeds of internal storage (i.e. SATA), I would consider a Thunderbolt disk or array to be more in line with the OP's needs.
[doublepost=1482928073][/doublepost]
True, in some ways. In some other ways not true. When you have a cMP the only sensible way to get massive storage is internal (due to lack of TB), or in a corporate setting 10GLan with some huge SAN. With a nMP (or iMac) the sensible way is external: TB for work files and USB3 for backups etc.
Totally agree. Another option is to get a quad core nMP off eBay and then upgrade with a second hand 10 or 12 core cpu.
Here is a page about compatible cpus:
http://www.everymac.com/systems/app...o-upgrade-mac-pro-cylinder-cpu-processor.html
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The 10-core CPUs seem to be typically listed at around £1000 - £1500 on eBay. . . . . .
Well here is a compatible one for around £600:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/INTEL-XEO...087133?hash=item237a15895d:g:X4gAAOSwa~BYXDbN
If you are doing this for music composistion with logic pro x you could continue using your current machine as-is and then buy an inexpensive second mac and install MainStage on it. Since MainStage uses virtually the same sound libraries as logic you could push your track count way up over two machines working together.
Plus £180 postage and import duties for the OP, who lives in the UK. I did say "typical".
Surprised people would spend so much on ageing computers.
Don't get obsessed with cores - newer architecture can trump cores even on multicore tests. For instance, my mildly overclocked i7 SkyLake Hackintosh with a couple of used 280x graphics cards outperforms the 2013-era 6-core nMacPro on every major test. Cost under £900 with sexy water-cooling and good RAM and would have been less if I'd used my old case and power supply that would have done the job. It's never crashed or displayed any quirks at all. If I needed more could have made a Xeon hack but it's a very fast computer.
Don't get obsessed with cores - newer architecture can trump cores even on multicore tests. For instance, my mildly overclocked i7 SkyLake Hackintosh with a couple of used 280x graphics cards outperforms the 2013-era 6-core nMacPro on every major test. Cost under £900 with sexy water-cooling and good RAM and would have been less if I'd used my old case and power supply that would have done the job. It's never crashed or displayed any quirks at all. If I needed more could have made a Xeon hack but it's a very fast computer.
yep new cpu's are much much much faster than the old ones (mac pro = i7 960/970/980 cpu) which is much much slower than the newer ones a 4c cpu at same ghz speed will beat it by far.
+1 for imac or hackintosh
new cpus are also hotter and use more power
edit older cpus are hotter and use more power to do the same work.
+1 for imac or hackintosh
new cpus are also hotter and use more power
edit older cpus are hotter and use more power to do the same work.
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ops yes good catch pastrychef
just saw a LinusTechTips video that has a chart with the fastest macpro cpu on for comparison
see how the i7 990X compares to the newer cpu's in single core and multi core.
the i7 3960x looks like the sweet spot for single core.
just saw a LinusTechTips video that has a chart with the fastest macpro cpu on for comparison
the i7 3960x looks like the sweet spot for single core.
A USB 3.0 external disk will have much the same read/write performance as an internal SATA disk in a cMP. The bandwidth of USB 3.0 is easily enough that the bottleneck is getting data on & off the disk not down the USB 3.9 pipe. If connecting fast disk arrays then Thunderbolt would have an advantage but that's not what we were discussing.
I assume you mean by that, that one can't get dual CPU tray cMP's as cheap as you can single CPU tray machines? If so, then true on average, not true if you hunt around some. In my experience, especially the low-end 5,1's (octo 2,4 Ghz) are the perfect target for an upgrade...
RGDS,
Can you buy a single core and put a dual core tray in (I thought I heard the MoBo was different some how)?