Buying a imac 24" alu, wait a bit?

[marcg007]

Just one comment about this multimedia nonsense

There is absolutely nothing wrong with these iMacs. I have had mine since August 22nd and have had no problems at all. To the people who say "it can't play blue-ray or HD and doesn't have this port or that input type", I say that I don't use this thing as a television. I use it for getting work done, talking to far away family with iChat, and playing the occasional game. If you are looking for something that doubles as a television, you can use this that way if you want but there are limitations. This thing is a workhorse and will not be obsolete for several years no matter what comes out in a month or a year or whatever. My previous desktop was a G4 933MHz, also a heck of a good machine. I bought it in May 2002 just before they put out the wind tunnel macs and even now, it will continue to act as a perfectly good machine for a local nonprofit.
Ok enough of this. Time to get back to my homework...

 

[SaSaSushi]

Thanks ever so much for the insightful point-by-point rebuttal of my comments.

Yes, I must admit to a lack of "love" for inanimate piles of obsolescent Al and Si.

OTOH, I greatly admire the Cupertino software weenies -- because they create
products that allow me to do precisely what I want. Ironically, that's the exact
opposite of the company's "we know what's best for you" hardware philosophy.

...be sure to give your glossy screen a big wet kiss for me,

LK

That's right, Leon, and when someone points out your FUD switch to that charming acerbic sarcastic wit of yours. Let's not make it too obvious that I've gotten under your skin.

I've got no problems with detractors of any product be it Apple or otherwise. You've clearly got an agenda in here and I don't have any qualms whatsoever in calling you on it.

Perhaps at this point you should seek professional counseling to try and help you get over whatever horrible experience you had with your own iMacs.

 

[SaSaSushi]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with these iMacs. I have had mine since August 22nd and have had no problems at all. To the people who say "it can't play blue-ray or HD and doesn't have this port or that input type", I say that I don't use this thing as a television. I use it for getting work done, talking to far away family with iChat, and playing the occasional game. If you are looking for something that doubles as a television, you can use this that way if you want but there are limitations. This thing is a workhorse and will not be obsolete for several years no matter what comes out in a month or a year or whatever. My previous desktop was a G4 933MHz, also a heck of a good machine. I bought it in May 2002 just before they put out the wind tunnel macs and even now, it will continue to act as a perfectly good machine for a local nonprofit.
Ok enough of this. Time to get back to my homework...

Right on, brother!

The BluRay/HD-DVD thing is just Leon's latest tact. Before that it was the "universal" gradient defect for all 24" iMacs.

I think he's a bit of a Jeckyll and Hyde: a rare troll who's intelligent and actually occasionally able to offer good, constructive advice when he's not ranting about the new iMacs.

Apparently he had some personal, horrible experience with them that has sent him on this vendetta that I fear he will never overcome until he addresses in counseling.

 

[Richard.John]

By the time HD content is available on our 1gigabit Fibre optic networks, well, we will buy a new Mac/PC for it anyway. Here in Japan, 100mbps connections are common but the content is not available. The future belongs to HD, no doubt, but it may be some way off and for now Youtube will suffice

 

[72930]

The future belongs to HD, no doubt, but it may be some way off and for now Youtube will suffice

As long as there is no HD Ultimate Showdown, YouTube wins by far...

 

[eRondeau]

That's right, Leon, and when someone points out your FUD switch to that charming acerbic sarcastic wit of yours. Let's not make it too obvious that I've gotten under your skin.

FYI, Leon Kowalski was the very slow-witted Replicant in Blade Runner who went into overload because he didn't know what a tortise was. Nice username choice, I wish I'd thought of it first.

 

[Big-TDI-Guy]

At the risk of walking right in front of the firing line.... I agree with LKs first post. BUT - not everybody cares about integrating video and HD into their computer. Some people want an "all in one computer" to take the hassle out and simplify things. So it tends to attract 2, almost oppositely polarized demographics.

The: I need a simple and reliable box that can play some tunes, get my mail, and do computer things I normally wouldn't do with more complicated equipment.

Then the: I WOULD love an 8 core power Mac with Dual 30" LCDs and HD video / Audio kicking about - Or even the iMac Pro pipe dream/mock-up floating around. But in reality, I do not have the Budget and/or Space to accomplish this. FTR: I think I fall into that category. And while I would love nothing more than some video inputs and HD / High Speed data interface - I'm definitely the minority in terms of the iMac customer.

So - your POV does hold true - but for most iMac customers - it seems to be a moot point. My own mother is one of the "majority" iMac customers - and while she loves the iMac, 50 bucks says she couldn't tell much different from the 1.8GHz P4 Vaio she had before it. (which was slowwwwww) And that seems to lead me towards her not caring about whether or not it supports Blu-Ray 3 years from now.

AM I the ONLY person alive in the 20-40 something bracket that has yet to see Blade Runner? I also never saw Tron. Should I be worried about that?

 

[Leon Kowalski]

... yada, yada, FUD, yada, yada, under your skin, yada yada, detractors, yada, yada
yada, yada, agenda, yada, yada, qualms, yada, yada, yada, counseling yada, yada ...

...yet another impressive fanboi rant, CDR,

Leon 'Nexus 6' Kowalski

 

[pubjoe]

I don't understand this need for blue-ray.

Unless you watch your movies at your desk, 1 foot from the screen. Is HD really going to be noticeable on a 20/24" screen? If you want it for HD editing, what are your buying an "i"mac for? If you want it for increased data, then I don't think there is a real need for that either. 25-50GB might be nice to have access to but it's hardly a necessity. Really, writable media is slowly becoming obsolete theses days with high-speed broadband, NAS Drives and home LANs anyway - especially when it comes to large data-files. Blue-ray and HDDVD are going to be primarily movie only formats in the future and even then, mass adoption is proving to be slow.

I've just moved to an 24" imac from a much more powerful windows PC. The PC was, to be honest, total over-kill, I think I developed a little bit of l33t-itis. I was so obsessed with upgrading to the peak of consumer technology that I never actually used it for what it was intended for. I bought the imac to put an end to all that time wasting and have a much nicer and more stable computer, and most of all, to stop the stupid benchmarks and specifications obsession.

The imac does everything I need and it does so with far more grace than my last machine. I will miss the sata connection though, but the FW800 port just about compensates - although it does mean I'm going to need to get an expensive enclosure for worse transfer rates - but I'm not losing sleep (edit: it's 2:50AM!! ...Maybe I am!).

To be honest, when the summer imac update came along, I did expect more than the laptop components - what with cheap quad core chips from intel and cheap high performance graphics cards available. But then I remembered, "that is what the pro is for". The imac is for home use with decent pro ability too. I honestly don't need to be on the bleeding-edge for what I use it for. ...And lets face it, the imac is still bloody powerful anyway - The power is simply enough.

I say buy now.

 

[Big-TDI-Guy]

How much HD content have you watched or used on a 20" or 24" LCD? (I'm talking an LCD that has more than 1050 vertical lines - in the case of a 24" monitor 1200. Not a 20" or 24" cheap-o LCD TV)

Because I disagree - and to me it is PAINFULLY obvious. My friend has a 24" dell LCD with the same resolution, and comparable specs to my 24" iMac.

Put in a PC video or DVD in that, and it looks no different that what you'd expect. Looks "normal".

Pop in a HD Game or Blu-Ray video and it is a NIGHT and DAY difference. I don't even have an huge HD set or HD cable - but it is painfully obvious, even on a 20". With that 20" it was only 720p - with the 24" we ran 480, 720p and 1080p - and honestly - there is no comparison between the three.

A good test (what I did) was to hook up a PS3 with the HDMI going into a DVI adapter (cheap and easy to hook up) so you can couple into a monitor. Run that PS3 on games and video with the output set to 480, then try 720 and 1080. A while back I myself thought it was going to be nothing big, until I saw it with my own eyes.

Problem with the current iMac - is the LCD can handle it, it's a 1920 x 1200 display on the 24" - and for 1080p, that should be a cake walk. The problem with the current iMac is there is no way to get that signal TO that lovely screen (be it DVI/HDMI or I/O port). And even with Firewire 800 - you don't have nearly enough bandwidth to pipe it in. That's the "waste" of it all. And that is where an eSATA port, or HDMI / DVI input could greatly broaden an iMacs staying power down the road. I myself would love to hook up my PS3 to it, so I can finally enjoy the games as they were written. Because I don't have the room for an HD set, nice as that would be.

 

[pubjoe]

How much HD content have you watched or used on a 20" or 24" LCD? (I'm talking an LCD that has more than 1050 vertical lines - in the case of a 24" monitor 1200.)

Because I disagree - and to me it is PAINFULLY obvious. My friend has a 24" dell LCD with the same resolution, and comparable specs to my 24" iMac.

Put in a PC video or DVD in that, and it looks no different that what you'd expect. Looks "normal".

Pop in a HD Game or Blu-Ray video and it is a NIGHT and DAY difference. I don't even have an HD set or cable - but it is painfully obvious, even on a 20". With that 20" it was only 720p - with the 24" we ran 480, 720p and 1080p - and honestly - there is no comparison between the three.

I have that dell 24" on my PC and I agree, games and movies look great at HD the difference is very noticeable when playing games from the desk. (In fact, it is buying the 2405FPW screen 2 years ago that led the way to my upgrade obsession ).

Sit back 10 feet away on the sofa to watch a film though and the difference becomes a bit pointless.

The imac is not built to play demanding games just as it's not built to play blue-ray discs. It simply serves no purpose. Do you want HD video coupled with the imac's built in speakers for watching a movie?

That lovely imac screen is built in for application real estate and hi-res photos/graphics editing.

I'd rather keep HD movies on the 42" plasma.

Problem with the current iMac - is the LCD can handle it, it's a 1920 x 1200 display on the 24" - and for 1080p, that should be a cake walk. The problem with the current iMac is there is no way to get that signal TO that lovely screen (be it DVI/HDMI or I/O port). And even with Firewire 800 - you don't have nearly enough bandwidth to pipe it in. That's the "waste" of it all. And that is where an eSATA port, or HDMI / DVI input could greatly broaden an iMacs staying power down the road. I myself would love to hook up my PS3 to it, so I can finally enjoy the games as they were written. Because I don't have the room for an HD set, nice as that would be.

Okay, fair enough video-in and e-sata I'll give you. ...Different needs and all that... A couple of extra small features would go a long way for you. But come-on, the inclusion of a built in webcam and no e-sata should tell you all you need to know about what customer group the imac is aimed at. It is not meant to be a TV replacement by any means.

video in and e-sata may be 2 small things that are worth the small expense to add (I would definitely like e-sata). But not blue-ray.

P.S. We've both been editing our posts mid-discussion! We have no excuse for anything less than perfectly crafted arguments!

 

[Big-TDI-Guy]

My Ninja-Skills weren't fast enough to complete my edits before you replied. Yours is a valid point, and I was working under the theory of a cramped apartment, instead of a larger setting. So yeah, no WAY I want to watch any video on this thing more than 5' away. Because even "lo def" can't be discerned that well at 5'.

To the OP - my sincere apologies if I've done anything to derail this topic.

Coming full circle - if the iMac is at a rev B or C (which ever is required to work out the first-run bugs and problems) you should jump if you have the need for one.

With technology - there is never a "right time" in terms of product performance. Because you can wait until the cost of the "new thing" to come down - but by then, you're only 6 months until the next "new thing" - and the one you want will be "old". Just buy something that will comfortably satisfy you needs right now, and you can always get something better. Moores Law is FAR from over, or even slowing down. It's just mutating from speed and bit size to numbers of cores, parallel and specialized processing.

 

[Leon Kowalski]

I don't understand this need for blue-ray.

Don't get so wrapped-up with BlueRay movies. The POINT was the availability
of more 'future-proof' high-bandwidth input/output facilities. BlueRay was just
one of several examples, and "BlueRay capability" includes reading, writing,
copying, editing and creating 1080p HD content -- not just "watching movies."

I say buy now.

Yep, if you need it now, buy it now. But the OP said he didn't need it until March,
and was asking whether something newer/better might appear in the meantime.

... Macworld Expo '08 / San Francisco is Jan 14-18,

LK

 

[pubjoe]

Don't get so wrapped-up with BlueRay movies. The POINT was the availability
of more 'future-proof' high-bandwidth input/output facilities. BlueRay was just
one of several examples, and "BlueRay capability" includes reading, writing,
copying, editing and creating 1080p HD content -- not just "watching movies."
LK

I covered that. That's pretty much entering "pro" territory. The OP wants an imac doesn't he?

I'm taking a wild guess that he's not buying it for a HD video editing suite. I do agree that e-sata is one thing that wold be nice but I didn't deem it worth waiting for, just incase it might be in the next update.

I picked up on blue ray because it cropped up several times and it's the one thing I see no reason why it should appear in any imac update for quite some time.

 

[SaSaSushi]

FYI, Leon Kowalski was the very slow-witted Replicant in Blade Runner who went into overload because he didn't know what a tortise was. Nice username choice, I wish I'd thought of it first.

Indeed, the best (if very short) role ever played by the late great Brion James. It's one of my favorite movies ever.

 

[SaSaSushi]

...yet another impressive fanboi rant, CDR,

Leon 'Nexus 6' Kowalski

Not as witty this time, Leon. Are you running out of steam or something? I'm all for you taking a break.

 

[SaSaSushi]

Problem with the current iMac - is the LCD can handle it, it's a 1920 x 1200 display on the 24" - and for 1080p, that should be a cake walk. The problem with the current iMac is there is no way to get that signal TO that lovely screen (be it DVI/HDMI or I/O port). And even with Firewire 800 - you don't have nearly enough bandwidth to pipe it in. That's the "waste" of it all. And that is where an eSATA port, or HDMI / DVI input could greatly broaden an iMacs staying power down the road. I myself would love to hook up my PS3 to it, so I can finally enjoy the games as they were written. Because I don't have the room for an HD set, nice as that would be.

I have no problems whatsoever in getting HD content to my iMac, usually in the H.264 format. It looks fabulous. At this moment in time I personally don't have any need for streaming HD content and that's really all you're talking about. We shouldn't be giving people the misconception that the current iMacs are in any way incapable of displaying HD content.

 

[Big-TDI-Guy]

I have no problems whatsoever in getting HD content to my iMac, usually in the H.264 format. It looks fabulous. At this moment in time I personally don't have any need for streaming HD content and that's really all you're talking about. We shouldn't be giving people the misconception that the current iMacs are in any incapable of displaying HD content.

It was never my intention. But between the installed hardware - and legitimately available content - I didn't think there was much HD to be had without rips, downloads or imovie. Has the itunes store started selling HD video that plays on imacs?

And my issue still stands - I was speaking from a hardware versatility down the road - hi bandwidth IO streaming or Digital video input would greatly extend the service life of an iMac, in my opinion.

7 years from now: "Yeah, that old Apple iMac sucks, but it at least makes a great TV screen for the kitchen!"

 

[Roller]

I don't understand this need for blue-ray.

It's an issue if you intend to do any HD video editing on the Mac and need some way to save the results and play them on an HDTV. Sure, the Mac Pro is a much better choice for pro video editors. But with HD camcorders becoming mainstream, there will be more home videographers who want to edit on their computer and save to an HD-compatible optical format.

Optical media will become obsolete only when there's enough bandwidth around to handle content delivery and distribution (and there's a good alternative archival medium), but we're not there yet by any means.

 

[isaack]

hahahaha, i think its funny that this has turned into an arguement over hddvd and bluray, when i was a little more concerned over processors, cores and graphics cards, but after thinking about it a hdmi port would be awesome as im a poor uni student and almost all my savings are going into this computer and my xb360 it'd be great if my imac also functioned as a tv (but this isn't the be all and end all). i dont care about blu-ray and hd-dvd so much, as i work at a blockbuster store and will be able to rip all the dvd's and store them on a harddrive (quality doesnt bother me), but wouldn't complain if one does come on the next update, and after thinking about it a little if mac was to pickup either one of the new formats it could be the clincher in the war. thanks for all your comments

 

[Big-TDI-Guy]

Sorry for my part in hijacking your thread, dude.

That said - seriously - the more I think about this - the more I think it would be possible without a huge level of effort.

The connector in my 24" imac going from the LCD to the mainboard - looks very much similar to the connector in my 20" imac.

And both of these connectors look nearly identical to laptop dipslay connectors I've seen (although the laptop connectors had a 90 degree coupling - likely because of the packaging)

So I'm wondering if there is a interface standard - I mean it would make a whole lot of sense to have been done from the industry standpoint - because LCDs would cost quite a bit more if each manufacturer used their own interface and connection formats.

So if my connector going to my mainboard is some sort of DVI format (which is where I'm going, and where I'm praying this leads to) I woudln't have a moments hesitation on getting to work on a DVI I/O switch, and maybe a bypass so I can fire up the LCD power supply (backlight) without having to fire up my iMac. Though I'd want to have a working input before I worried about isolating power.

I'm well aware I won't have any useful adjustments available to me (contrast / brightness / gamma correction, clock shift or other resolutions) But if I could match the SOURCE signal to satisfy these needs - this just might work.

And if I do happen to find that a standard does exist - I wonder how hard it would be to buy a damaged LCD of the same size - say a dell 2007 WFP - and incorporate it's signal converter to make myself an iMac with 4 extra inputs.

Wait - fudge that. I'm going to crack open my friends WFP and start measuring that panel of his - and take a look at the interface from the signal converter to the panel itself. I'm now going into an entirely different (and likely easier) direction. Having a panel with a far better contrast ratio, and 5 extra inputs - maybe even a USB 2.0 hub - would be a sweet (if somewhat involved) addition to my iMac. So if I'm going to replace this panel (because of some problems i'm not keen on) why not upgrade?

Sorry again for that hijack - and the rambling post. Anyone know anything about laptop and imac LCD interfaces?

 

[Leon Kowalski]

So I'm wondering if there is a interface standard ...

Yes, there is a standard interface: LVDS (Low Voltage Differential Signaling);
don't know much about it -- except that it's also used for lots of stuff that has
nothing to do with displays. It's not compatible with DVI/HDMI/TMDS -- they're
at different levels in the video food-chain.

...happy googling,

LK

 

[gorby]

I guess I'll throw my 2 cents in regarding this whole BR/HD DVD thing.... I don't see why Apple would throw their weight behind either/both when one of them could well be obsolete.

Me? I have a HD DVD player (via the Xbox 360) and I watch them on my HDTV. It would be a cool bonus to be able to watch my HD DVD's on my iMac too, since the screen is gorgeous. But it's not a deal breaker. Hell, as long as they let me plug in my add-on drive, I'd be happy.

 

[Big-TDI-Guy]

Leon - Thanks for that info. Much easier looking for something once you know the name of it. This looks more probable by the second - and got me all excited for an instant. The following vendor I looked into poured me a Great Big Bowl of Honey-Nut Cheerios - only to turn around and poop in them at the last second! (my panel is 1920 x 1200 -- this unit supports only 1600 x 1200 -- which IS most certainly within 1080P territory - but will leave the sides of my monitor nude) But the fact that this device is in existence - proves there likely are others.

Edit: Is Are Finding More Info - this is seemingly the best option yet - and should "work". But in the "order tab" it says "add to wishlist" - Maybe if enough people out there start wishing??

For easy Plug&Display connections of flatpanels to
analog RGB- and DVI-Video sources
TTL RGB (FLEX32) or LVDS (KAB-JILI30) output
Highest picture quality by improved scaling algorithm
Flatpanel configuration via powerful software tools

Description
The CRTtoLCD-5 is a highly integrated flatpanel controller that allows to connect standard analog RGB and DVI (optional) sources to digital and LVDS Flatpanels. It includes all the necessary functionality to design e.g. full featured industrial LCD monitors, open frame kits or other LCD based visualisation solutions.

From a single 12 V power supply, the CRTtoLCD-5 generates all the voltages required by a TFT panel and includes power sequencing features and backlight support.

Typical Applications: Point of Sales (POS), Point of Information (POI), Gaming Machines, Digital Signage and all other industrial environment with VGA (15-Pin) and DVI -Output.

Product is RoHS compliant
PLUG & DISPLAY!



Downloads
Datasheets
Manuals
Tools
Panel Files


Detailed Download Overview



Products
CRTtoLCD-5 - 21024
CRTtoLCD-5 - Flatpanel Controller with analog RGB and DVI-Input with LVDS Output (further variants see below)

 

[skye12]

Yes but BD is pointless on a 24 inch screen anyway. I use my PS3 for BDs on a Sony 32 inch HDTV and its debatable if its superior to an upscaled DVD.

Use a Blu-ray with one of the newer 1080p sets and the difference is HUGE.