BUYING ADVICE (2012 Mac Pro)

[pl1984]

Okay, I'll admit that it's a viable option if money and time we're not an issue, but by using that as a basis for logic, I could go ahead and get a job at Apple, rise up the ranks to Chief something or another and wait for Timothy Crook to either die or be ousted from his position and take over as CEO and demand better Apple hardware myself to solve my problem. I'm getting to the age where retirement is a more realistic option than what you've proposed... Just sayin'...

Again I understand the reasoning behind your statement but then you were considering dropping almost $4,000 on a system based on 10 year old technology. That doesn't appear to be a very wise use of money.

Perhaps it might be smarter to begin your migration, you don't have to do it all at once. The Z620 I am typing this on I picked up on Ebay last year for $900. It's equipped with dual 2.9GHz octa core processors (32 threads total), 64GB of RAM, 1TB spinner, and a Quadro 600 video card. I added a 256GB M.2 AHCI drive for $150, a 512GB M.2 NVMe drive for $200. For another $250 I could bump it up to 128GB of memory (it supports up to 192GB). Throw in a Sapphire HD 7950 w/3GB of memory for $100. Total: $1,600. Oh, did I mention it supports Thunderbolt 2? Throw in another $190 for that card and you're at $1,800. With this configuration you have $2,200 remaining to buy software (some vendors will allow you to use your existing license for software which is available on both platforms).

I'm not trying to convince you to switch but rather say switching is an alternative. It won't be painless and it will cost money. But if it's done as a migration and not a wholesale replacement it can be managed. Normally I wouldn't bring this up as I love Apple solutions. The problem is that Apple isn't offering one and, assuming they do with the 2019 Mac Pro, are you willing to risk another five year delay or outright abandonment of this segment?

EDIT: Thunderbolt pricing

 

[yuzgen]

Bringing it to a Mac VS PC discussion is not fair at all. You found a bargain used HP workstation. That's fine.

If it comes down to that, Imma go ahead and tell you don't forget that HP uses propriety mobo abd PSU and it's not a better buy than a custom build. For instance, you have limited GPU options.

Bargain used cMP's are there. Again, a properly set up Mac has all the OS support of a PC, plus native MacOS.

If one is looking for a brand new computer, he should never look at Apple at the moment. iMac Pro is a joke. See Louis Rossman and Linus' YouTube channels.

BUT the point here is, cMP is THE pinnacle of all workstations ever made, and still very capable. No computer case comes close to its elegant, robust case and fans, and cooling design. A 12 core cMP is like two i7-2600 CPUs running just for you. Two fast hexa core XEONs will beat a 8700K easily in multhithreaded applications. How come is it old, useless technology? Who cares if they are 10 years old?

You can get real cheap, enormous amount of RAM for a cMP easily. It's the opposite for DDR4 systems.

Again I understand the reasoning behind your statement but then you were considering dropping almost $4,000 on a system based on 10 year old technology. That doesn't appear to be a very wise use of money.

Perhaps it might be smarter to begin your migration, you don't have to do it all at once. The Z620 I am typing this on I picked up on Ebay last year for $900. It's equipped with dual 2.9GHz octa core processors (32 threads total), 64GB of RAM, 1TB spinner, and a Quadro 600 video card. I added a 256GB M.2 AHCI drive for $150, a 512GB M.2 NVMe drive for $200. For another $250 I could bump it up to 128GB of memory (it supports up to 192GB). Throw in a Sapphire HD 7950 w/3GB of memory for $100. Total: $1,600. Oh, did I mention it supports Thunderbolt 2? Throw in another $190 for that card and you're at $1,800. With this configuration you have $2,200 remaining to buy software (some vendors will allow you to use your existing license for software which is available on both platforms).

I'm not trying to convince you to switch but rather say switching is an alternative. It won't be painless and it will cost money. But if it's done as a migration and not a wholesale replacement it can be managed. Normally I wouldn't bring this up as I love Apple solutions. The problem is that Apple isn't offering one and, assuming they do with the 2019 Mac Pro, are you willing to risk another five year delay or outright abandonment of this segment?

EDIT: Thunderbolt pricing

 

[verdejt]

I didn't read all the posts but I will go back and read them. I found this on eBay with a 15 second search. With maybe a couple hundred more you can add a good SSD and upgrade the Bluetooth and WiFi.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-Mac-...&_fsrp=1&_sacat=0&_nkw=macpro&_from=R40&rt=nc

 

[pl1984]

Bringing it to a Mac VS PC discussion is not fair at all. You found a bargain used HP workstation. That's fine.

Yes, it was a bargain. No, it was not a unique bargain:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-Z620-Wo..._udhi=1000&_sacat=0&_nkw=z620&_from=R40&rt=nc

MODS: Not my auction.

If it comes down to that, Imma go ahead and tell you don't forget that HP uses propriety mobo abd PSU and it's not a better buy than a custom build. For instance, you have limited GPU options.

Apple uses proprietary motherboards and PSUs in their Mac Pro models. As for limited GPU options please define limited. The HP supported GPU list dwarfs that of the Mac Pro. Likewise I can use most any GPU I want without having to worry about flashing it.

Bargain used cMP's are there. Again, a properly set up Mac has all the OS support of a PC, plus native MacOS.

The advantage of a Mac is it can use alternative operating systems in addition to macOS? I really don't see that as an advantage. The last computer I would buy to run something other than macOS is a Mac. The reason to buy a Mac is macOS.

If one is looking for a brand new computer, he should never look at Apple at the moment. iMac Pro is a joke. See Louis Rossman and Linus' YouTube channels.

The OP wasn't considering a new Mac. He was considering a Mac based on 10 year old technology. While they're nice systems (I have three cMP's and a 6,1 Mac Pro) I would never drop close to $4,000 on one (unless there were extenuating circumstances).

BUT the point here is, cMP is THE pinnacle of all workstations ever made, and still very capable. No computer case comes close to its elegant, robust case and fans, and cooling design. A 12 core cMP is like two i7-2600 CPUs running just for you. Two fast hexa core XEONs will beat a 8700K easily in multhithreaded applications. How come is it old, useless technology? Who cares if they are 10 years old?

They are very nice systems but they're old systems. To drop close to $4,000 on one is, IMO, a foolish decision (absent extenuating circumstances). Have you ever seen an HP Z series workstation? They're very well constructed, solid systems. While they may lack some of the little refinements the cMP offered they are great systems.

You can get real cheap, enormous amount of RAM for a cMP easily. It's the opposite for DDR4 systems.

I don't consider 128GB of RAM enormous. My Z620 supports 192GB whereas the Z820 supports 512GB. cMP isn't even in the same league.

 

[verdejt]

The price $3,859 is from OWC https://eshop.macsales.com/configure-my-mac/UAFEELE6XXG4XXD on their configure your own mac pro model. I was just selecting the components they offered as options. I can install RAM and an SSD myself if the cable coming off the power supply from the mac pro is a standard plug for an SSD and not something special that I'd have to purchase in addition to the box along with a cable to attach it to the board. I've put together a couple of PCs before, but I've never owned a mac pro, only an imac and macbook pro and everything on macs are proprietary, so if I order the wrong part, let's just say I don't want to go through the headache of mailing things back and forth with vendors.

The same goes for a Hackintosh. I know there are the tonymac forums with parts lists already put together, but I'd hate to order something then spend a few weeks trying to get it to work only to realize it was never compatible in the first place. The concept of Hackintoshing is completely foreign to me and I don't want to waste money or time making mistakes which will take time mailing things back and forth to correct.



It's from OWC. https://eshop.macsales.com/configure-my-mac/UAFEELE6XXG4XXD I just wanted to get something I wouldn't need to worry about updates with and that would support Mojave, dark mode and Metal. I was going to max it out to try and future proof the purchase, but from what I'm reading, that's not going to work. Hence why I rail so much about Apple. I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. I have terabytes of data and all of my work software is mac. Had I known back when I switched over from PC that Apple would have taken this course, I never would have invested all that I have in their ecosystem. Its a constant nightmare which I can never find a solution for. I've been waiting for an update to the mac pro line that's not that bs trash can model, but everything Apple has manufactured has had this obsession with thinner, lighter, and not able to be upgraded (sealed in batteries, no user serviceable components) and they run very hot as a result of constantly compacting the innards. Which means they will burn up and wear out much faster.

Well. I'm glad I posted this, now I've decided against getting the OWC system as it doesn't seem like such a good alternative anymore. I guess I'm just going to be screwed then when this imac s***s the bed.

I looked at the specs. IMHO here is what I would do. I would drop to the 5680 chip, drop down to 64gb of RAM (you can add more later if you need it.), I would drop down to a 1Tb standard spindle drive and buy a SSD online and install it yourself. You only really need the SSD to boot from and load your apps on. Store all your data on the spindle drive so you can get a away with a 250Gb or even 500Gb SSD, take the standard video card that comes with it and then purchase one online for cheaper from someplace like MVC or some other vendor. I looked at theses units originally before purchasing mine from eBay and they were starting out at $1500 or so. I found one on eBay for under half that price and then purchased a video card from another vendor on eBay to the total for my machine came to about $800. I have a mid 2010 2x2.4Ghz quad cores, 32gb of RAM, 250GB SSD with a 1Tb spindle drive. I purchased the GTX680 video card from another vendor and poof a great machine that I should be able to get about 5 years from running Mojave. I do have a feeling with the new MacPro a no show I think the old MacPros will be supported up to probably 10.16 or 10.17 before they cut them off. They are hugely popular and are a true workhorse. I posted a link to a similar machine on eBay that would fit your needs. Remember if you want a 2012 they you can get a 2010 as they are very similar.

 

[pl1984]

I looked at the specs. IMHO here is what I would do. I would drop to the 5680 chip, drop down to 64gb of RAM (you can add more later if you need it.), I would drop down to a 1Tb standard spindle drive and buy a SSD online and install it yourself. You only really need the SSD to boot from and load your apps on. Store all your data on the spindle drive so you can get a away with a 250Gb or even 500Gb SSD, take the standard video card that comes with it and then purchase one online for cheaper from someplace like MVC or some other vendor. I looked at theses units originally before purchasing mine from eBay and they were starting out at $1500 or so. I found one on eBay for under half that price and then purchased a video card from another vendor on eBay to the total for my machine came to about $800. I have a mid 2010 2x2.4Ghz quad cores, 32gb of RAM, 250GB SSD with a 1Tb spindle drive. I purchased the GTX680 video card from another vendor and poof a great machine that I should be able to get about 5 years from running Mojave. I do have a feeling with the new MacPro a no show I think the old MacPros will be supported up to probably 10.16 or 10.17 before they cut them off. They are hugely popular and are a true workhorse. I posted a link to a similar machine on eBay that would fit your needs. Remember if you want a 2012 they you can get a 2010 as they are very similar.

OP requires Thunderbolt which eliminates the cMP, any cMP, from consideration.

 

[AmazingRobie]

If one is looking for a brand new computer, he should never look at Apple at the moment. iMac Pro is a joke. See Louis Rossman and Linus' YouTube channels.

BUT the point here is, cMP is THE pinnacle of all workstations ever made, and still very capable. No computer case comes close to its elegant, robust case and fans, and cooling design. A 12 core cMP is like two i7-2600 CPUs running just for you. Two fast hexa core XEONs will beat a 8700K easily in multhithreaded applications. How come is it old, useless technology? Who cares if they are 10 years old?

You can get real cheap, enormous amount of RAM for a cMP easily. It's the opposite for DDR4 systems.

So how much should one expect to pay for the cMP which was linked to from OWC that's a 2012 model with the specs indicated in the original post? I do not want to purchase something from the UK or eBay which is an even older model as Matty_TypeR suggested.

And also, how does the HP workstation pl1984 referenced have Thunderbolt and a 2012 Mac Pro does not and cannot have installed? Just curious.

I'm all about repurposing and upgrading to keep things functioning and second hand doesn't bother me much. I've replaced numerous parts, numerous times, in my 2011 iMac to keep it running this long (probably too many times as we should have just bought something else with the money, but we never expected the number of future repairs we would have so it always seemed the cheaper option at the time), the same goes for our 2008 MacBook Pro, but I don't want to buy something that's going to crap out on us multiple times like these devices have...

@pl1984- Yes, spending close to $4,000 for old tech probably isn't the smartest use of dollars, but our intention was to max it out, thinking it would last for at least another 5-7 years and we wouldn't have to repurchase software or relearn everything "differently".
[doublepost=1534100993][/doublepost]

OP requires Thunderbolt which eliminates the cMP, any cMP, from consideration.

I'm curious how you got Thunderbolt on the HP workstation and it can't be installed on the Mac Pro? Just asking, because I do not understand.

 

[Matty_TypeR]

@pl1984- Yes, spending close to $4,000 for old tech probably isn't the smartest use of dollars, but our intention was to max it out, thinking it would last for at least another 5-7 years and we wouldn't have to repurchase software or relearn everything "differently".

A maxed out 2012 model will last as long as you can use it for. the cMP 5.1 is a well built machine, I think that quote of $4000 is kinda steep but its your money. one thing is for sure parts are cheap enough for them if you ever need to replace anything. but thunderbolt you won't have in a cMP

The question you have to ask yourself is what you really want for the $4000 you are going to drop on a system. if you feel the cMP 2012 will do it, then go for it. if not then PC based system it will have to be. HP make some good stuff but like all machines including mac's they can fail too. the choice is yours as they say!

 

[yuzgen]

Try to hook up dual 1080 Ti's in that HP. If you put something other than Mac on the table, I can put something else.

Everybody here knows what PSU cMP uses.

The advantage of Macs is they can use all the OSs a PC uses, PLUS MacOS.

4K is overpriced, yes. I already stated.

I'm using an HP Z6 G4 with 10 core Silver 4114 and P4000, and 32 GB RAM at my office. No, they are not well constructed. I can hear the resonance noise of my disks, because of the cheap plastic case.

Calculate how much you have to spend for 128 GB DDR4 RAM, please.

Yes, it was a bargain. No, it was not a unique bargain:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-Z620-Workstation-2x-Xeon-E5-2690-2-9ghz-16-Cores-64gb-2Tb-K600-Win10/292672771759?hash=item4424a816af:g:wakAAOSwqXJbavtt&_udhi=1000&_sacat=0&_nkw=z620&_from=R40&rt=nc

MODS: Not my auction.


Apple uses proprietary motherboards and PSUs in their Mac Pro models. As for limited GPU options please define limited. The HP supported GPU list dwarfs that of the Mac Pro. Likewise I can use most any GPU I want without having to worry about flashing it.


The advantage of a Mac is it can use alternative operating systems in addition to macOS? I really don't see that as an advantage. The last computer I would buy to run something other than macOS is a Mac. The reason to buy a Mac is macOS.


The OP wasn't considering a new Mac. He was considering a Mac based on 10 year old technology. While they're nice systems (I have three cMP's and a 6,1 Mac Pro) I would never drop close to $4,000 on one (unless there were extenuating circumstances).


They are very nice systems but they're old systems. To drop close to $4,000 on one is, IMO, a foolish decision (absent extenuating circumstances). Have you ever seen an HP Z series workstation? They're very well constructed, solid systems. While they may lack some of the little refinements the cMP offered they are great systems.


I don't consider 128GB of RAM enormous. My Z620 supports 192GB whereas the Z820 supports 512GB. cMP isn't even in the same league.

 

[verdejt]

OP requires Thunderbolt which eliminates the cMP, any cMP, from consideration.

If the OP requires Thunderbolt why did he want to but a 2012 cMP? In his original post he says nothing about Thunderbolt.

 

[pl1984]

So how much should one expect to pay for the cMP which was linked to from OWC that's a 2012 model with the specs indicated in the original post? I do not want to purchase something from the UK or eBay which is an even older model as an earlier person suggested.

I wouldn't be surprised if you're paying a premium to have a "genuine" 2012 Mac Pro. I put genuine in quotes because the configuration you're purchasing was never offered by Apple but the system from which it was built is likely to be a genuine 2012 model. IMO I would not pay extra for a genuine 2012 system as it is essentially a 2010 system with different processors. To my knowledge everything else is the same.

Yes, spending close to $4,000 for old tech probably isn't the smartest use of dollars, but our intention was to max it out, thinking it would last for at least another 5-7 years and we wouldn't have to repurchase software or relearn everything "differently".

I definitely would not recommend dropping $4,000 on a system which is based on 10 year old technology and expect to use it for the next 5-7 years.

I'm curious how you got Thunderbolt on the HP workstation and it can't be installed on the Mac Pro? Just asking, because I do not understand.

Simple: HP designed it to support Thunderbolt whereas Apple did not design the cMP to support Thunderbolt. Granted the Z620 post dates the cMP so it's no surprise it supports technology the cMP does not (the Z600 is the equivalent technology as the cMP and it does not support Thunderbolt either).
[doublepost=1534102037][/doublepost]

If the OP requires Thunderbolt why did he want to but a 2012 cMP? In his original post he says nothing about Thunderbolt.

See post #25 from the OP where he says:

"Well there you go, this was a 2012 Mac Pro and since Thunderbolt was already introduced in 2011, I assumed that it would have a port. Something I did not know, which just adds to the decision that the OWC Mac Pro is not a viable option."

 

[yuzgen]

I buy, upgrade and sell these babies. 2500 USD max for those specs. Not a dime more.

The architecture doesn't support thunderbolt. Sorry.

A cMP will last very long. I converted to HP at my office, because it was the best option I had. Others were iMac Pro and SLI MSI game laptop. Duh. Upgrading etc. were out of question. Working for a holding company.

So how much should one expect to pay for the cMP which was linked to from OWC that's a 2012 model with the specs indicated in the original post? I do not want to purchase something from the UK or eBay which is an even older model as an earlier person suggested.

And also, how does the HP workstation pl1984 referenced have Thunderbolt and a 2012 Mac Pro does not and cannot have installed? Just curious.

I'm all about repurposing and upgrading to keep things functioning and second hand doesn't bother me much. I've replaced numerous parts, numerous times, in my 2011 iMac to keep it running this long (probably too many times as we should have just bought something else with the money, but we never expected the number of future repairs we would have so it always seemed the cheaper option at the time), the same goes for our 2008 MacBook Pro, but I don't want to buy something that's going to crap out on us multiple times like these devices have...

@pl1984- Yes, spending close to $4,000 for old tech probably isn't the smartest use of dollars, but our intention was to max it out, thinking it would last for at least another 5-7 years and we wouldn't have to repurchase software or relearn everything "differently".
[doublepost=1534100993][/doublepost]
I'm curious how you got Thunderbolt on the HP workstation and it can't be installed on the Mac Pro? Just asking, because I do not understand.

 

[AmazingRobie]

I don't consider 128GB of RAM enormous. My Z620 supports 192GB whereas the Z820 supports 512GB. cMP isn't even in the same league.

So you're running windows on the Z820 correct, it's not one of the HP's that's able to be made into a Hackintosh with already existing internals? Again, just asking questions here...

 

[pl1984]

Try to hook up dual 1080 Ti's in that HP. If you put something other than Mac on the table, I can put something else.

I could if I wanted so I'm not sure what your point is.

Everybody here knows what PSU cMP uses.

OK, and?

The advantage of Macs is they can use all the OSs a PC uses, PLUS MacOS.

Again: Why is being able to run other operating systems an advantage? If I'm going to buy a Mac it's not because it can run alternative operating system but rather because it can run macOS.

4K is overpriced, yes. I already stated.

I'm using an HP Z6 G4 with 10 core Silver 4114 and P4000, and 32 GB RAM at my office. No, they are not well constructed. I can hear the resonance noise of my disks, because of the cheap plastic case.

There is no Z6 G4, the Z6 is the fourth generation of the Z series systems...is that what you meant? As for noise I can hear the hard disks in my Mac Pro's so I'm not seeing an advantage.

Calculate how much you have to spend for 128 GB DDR4 RAM, please.

Why would I want to do that? The Z620 uses DDR3 memory.
[doublepost=1534102739][/doublepost]

So you're running windows on the Z820 correct, it's not one of the HP's that's able to be made into a Hackintosh with already existing internals? Again, just asking questions here...

No, I am running Linux on a Z620. But Windows 7 and 10 are fully supported by HP on this system.

 

[Matty_TypeR]

So you're running windows on the Z820 correct, it's not one of the HP's that's able to be made into a Hackintosh with already existing internals? Again, just asking questions here...

I have never been a fan of Hackintosh as there is always something to update at every OS update, I admire peoples dedication to hackintosh and the effort they put into them but as solid working machines I would not be interested. for me its got to work from when I push the on switch, I dot want to be loading boot loaders or terminal commands to get it running. if you want to use OSX then you have picked that $4000 Mac Pro 5.1 2012, which is no different to 2010 machine as its not using the original CPU's a 2012 Mac Pro came with. so the question is, if you want to stay OSX go 2012 machine, if you want more modern tech, then you have to look at PC based work station.

 

[yuzgen]

Are you pretending you don't understand? If you actually think an HP is well constructed as a cMP, you're deluded. The thing resonates just like a cheap PC case.

You need to read the context again instead of asking "OK and?" type questions.

I'm using the HP and you say it doesn't exist. LMAO.

DDR4 was put to table because it's new technology, unlike your old DDR3 HP.

Edit: Proof that I'm not mad and it exists. LOL.
http://www8.hp.com/tr/tr/products/workstations/product-detail.html?oid=16449901

I could if I wanted so I'm not sure what your point is.


OK, and?


Again: Why is being able to run other operating systems an advantage? If I'm going to buy a Mac it's not because it can run alternative operating system but rather because it can run macOS.


There is no Z6 G4, the Z6 is the fourth generation of the Z series systems...is that what you meant? As for noise I can hear the hard disks in my Mac Pro's so I'm not seeing an advantage.


Why would I want to do that? The Z620 uses DDR3 memory.
[doublepost=1534102739][/doublepost]
No, I am running Linux on a Z620. But Windows 7 and 10 are fully supported by HP on this system.

 

[AmazingRobie]

I have never been a fan of Hackintosh as there is always something to update at every OS update, I admire peoples dedication to hackintosh and the effort they put into them but as solid working machines I would not be interested. for me its got to work from when I push the on switch, I dot want to be loading boot loaders or terminal commands to get it running. if you want to use OSX then you have picked that $4000 Mac Pro 5.1 2012, which is no different to 2010 machine as its not using the original CPU's a 2012 Mac Pro came with. so the question is, if you want to stay OSX go 2012 machine, if you want more modern tech, then you have to look at PC based work station.

Okay man. I gives up. There's so much here making my head swim. So 2012 cMPs are essentially 2010s with upgraded internals which can be done cheaper from parts sourced on the internet, either Amazon or eBay, but that still doesn't solve the thunderbolt issue.

Again, I'm back to the same place again where I cannot resolve this, except to keep sinking money into this imac as it breaks down or buy a newer model, because the trash can mac pros are not what I want and Hackintosh presents many a problem and there's no way I'm going to sink the investment into switching back to Windows.

I'm going to close this thread now. Thanks for everyones input.

 

[pl1984]

Are you pretending you don't understand? If you actually think an HP is well constructed as a cMP, you're deluded. The thing resonates just like a cheap PC case.

You need to read the context again instead of asking "OK and?" type questions.

I'm using the HP and you say it doesn't exist. LMAO.

DDR4 was put to table because it's new technology, unlike your old DDR3 HP.

Edit: Proof that I'm not mad and it exists. LOL.
http://www8.hp.com/tr/tr/products/workstations/product-detail.html?oid=16449901

As someone who has both a Z620 and multiple cMP's (a 1,1, a 3,1, and a 5,1) literally sitting right next to me I think I'm more than qualified to state the Z620 (and the Z600 I owned prior to it) is a solid system...among the best in the business. Perhaps HP cheapened the Z6 but the Z620 system, which is the system under discussion, is a solid system. DDR4 is irrelevant as it is not used by the systems being discussed. No point discussing newer technology.
[doublepost=1534103945][/doublepost]

Okay man. I gives up. There's so much here making my head swim. So 2012 cMPs are essentially 2010s with upgraded internals which can be done cheaper from parts sourced on the internet, either Amazon or eBay, but that still doesn't solve the thunderbolt issue.

Aside from different processors the 2010 and 2012 models are exactly identical. A 2010 Mac Pro with dual 3.46GHz processors is no different than a 2012 Mac Pro with dual 3.46GHz processors as Apple never sold a 2010 / 2012 Mac Pro with dual 3.46GHz processors.

Again, I'm back to the same place again where I cannot resolve this, except to keep sinking money into this imac as it breaks down or buy a newer model, because the trash can mac pros are not what I want and Hackintosh presents many a problem and there's no way I'm going to sink the investment into switching back to Windows.

Why are you so committed to a platform which has been all but abandoned by its manufacturer? As a business owner I would consider that foolish.

 

[AmazingRobie]

Why are you so committed to a platform which has been all but abandoned by its manufacturer? As a business owner I would consider that foolish.

The machine I have already does everything I need it to EXCEPT run Dark Mode (I turn the brightness on my screen all the way down as far as it can go all day) and it needs to be faster for editing. I don't care about Apples operating systems, honestly I feel that they've plateaued and now they're just making changes for changes sake to fool consumers.

But a computer is a tool just like anything else. A hammer still hammers things after 20 years if its durable. This imac is not. Its proven itself to be unreliable and its slooow while editing.

If my computer were more reliable and it had never broken down before (in my case several times) and Dark Mode didn't exist and there were a way to speed it up by adding more RAM or swapping out the processor for a faster one, we wouldn't be having this conversation. But everything is already maxed out in it.

If they had made one more revision to the cMP, I believe Apple could have stopped making them like they have for another 10 years and no one would have complained, but they started building those trash cans and squashed everything down into a small container, screwing everybody.

I hate Apple the company. With a deep, deep passion. But I love the software developers for macOS and related software. All software I use inspires creativity. Windows never did that for me. If I could run macOS easily on PC parts, I could give a s*** about ever buying another Apple piece of hardware. I don't want to ever give Timothy Crook any more of my money. The man turns my stomach. I get a very strong gut feeling he is a liar and a dishonest person, I never trusted Jobs either but he was one helluva entertaining and excited son of a you-know-what...

 

[pl1984]

The machine I have already does everything I need it to EXCEPT run Dark Mode (I turn the brightness on my screen all the way down as far as it can go all day) and it needs to be faster for editing. I don't care about Apples operating systems, honestly I feel that they've plateaued and now they're just making changes for changes sake to fool consumers.

If you don't care about them then why are you so hell bent on staying with them?

But a computer is a tool just like anything else. A hammer still hammers things after 20 years if its durable. This imac is not. Its proven itself to be unreliable and its slooow while editing.

I agree, which circles back to what I keep saying: Why are you sticking with this tool when, apparently, it is no longer suitable for you?

If my computer were more reliable and it had never broken down before (in my case several times) and Dark Mode didn't exist and there were a way to speed it up by adding more RAM or swapping out the processor for a faster one, we wouldn't be having this conversation. But everything is already maxed out in it.

Understood, your current too no longer is able to meet your needs. So it's time to find a replacement.

If they had made one more revision to the cMP, I believe Apple could have stopped making them like they have for another 10 years and no one would have complained, but they started building those trash cans and squashed everything down into a small container, screwing everybody.

But they didn't make "one more revision", so what now?

I hate Apple the company. With a deep, deep passion. But I love the software developers for macOS and related software. All software I use inspires creativity. Windows never did that for me. If I could run macOS easily on PC parts, I could give a s*** about ever buying another Apple piece of hardware. I don't want to ever give Timothy Crook any more of my money. The man turns my stomach. I get a very strong gut feeling he is a liar and a dishonest person, I never trusted Jobs either but he was one helluva entertaining and excited son of a you-know-what...

Windows, nor macOS, should inspire creativity...that's just Apple's marketing. Have you ever heard the phrase "A poor craftsman blames his tools"? That's what you're doing but in the reverse. You're stating your success if tied to the tools you use. I would argue I doubt that is the case.

Regardless Apple does not make a tool that suites your requirements. So you'll continue buying overpriced, outdated Apple hardware until the end of time? This is not about Apple versus PC but rather Apple not offering a solution for you. If they did I wouldn't be here. But the reality is they do not, so your options are to stay on the platform with hardware which is substandard for your needs or to migrate to an alternative.

 

[verdejt]

The machine I have already does everything I need it to EXCEPT run Dark Mode (I turn the brightness on my screen all the way down as far as it can go all day) and it needs to be faster for editing. I don't care about Apples operating systems, honestly I feel that they've plateaued and now they're just making changes for changes sake to fool consumers.

But a computer is a tool just like anything else. A hammer still hammers things after 20 years if its durable. This imac is not. Its proven itself to be unreliable and its slooow while editing.

If my computer were more reliable and it had never broken down before (in my case several times) and Dark Mode didn't exist and there were a way to speed it up by adding more RAM or swapping out the processor for a faster one, we wouldn't be having this conversation. But everything is already maxed out in it.

If they had made one more revision to the cMP, I believe Apple could have stopped making them like they have for another 10 years and no one would have complained, but they started building those trash cans and squashed everything down into a small container, screwing everybody.

I hate Apple the company. With a deep, deep passion. But I love the software developers for macOS and related software. All software I use inspires creativity. Windows never did that for me. If I could run macOS easily on PC parts, I could give a s*** about ever buying another Apple piece of hardware. I don't want to ever give Timothy Crook any more of my money. The man turns my stomach. I get a very strong gut feeling he is a liar and a dishonest person, I never trusted Jobs either but he was one helluva entertaining and excited son of a you-know-what...

Which iMac do you have and what are the specs. Just curious. Also exactly what is it you are doing with it? Just trying to get a handle on which direction you should go.

 

[AmazingRobie]

Which iMac do you have and what are the specs. Just curious. Also exactly what is it you are doing with it? Just trying to get a handle on which direction you should go.

I utilize Final Cut X, Logic, AudioMulch, NI Kontakt, CrazyTalk Animator, Adobe Photoshop, Illustrator, Lightroom & Character Animator, Aurora3DAnimation, a number of VSTs and plugins/filters for all of the software mentioned above. I animate, edit video, create graphics and compose soundtracks. I really just wanted to see if there was an option I hadn't thought of which would be like my current setup (with Thunderbolt ports), but faster and able to at least run Mojave for Dark Mode. Speed/Processing power and Dark Mode are pretty much the missing pieces that once I obtain, I'll be set free from following anything Apple ever again (or at least a good long while).

There are also several Binaural Beats programs I use virtually in Windows with VMWare, but those are very low CPU intensive.

@pl1984 - We're just going to have to agree to disagree brother. I feel the polished appearance of the software and OS are important and I like macOS's aesthetic. I'm not saying I couldn't use something else to create, but more that I don't want to. I'll figure out a solution, whether its keeping this box going until something presents itself via Apple or eventually breaking down to go the Hackintosh route. Like I stated before, terabytes of data migrated over to newly formatted drives would take weeks if not longer and more time than I care to spare, not to mention the financial expense. What your suggesting sounds like crazy talk to me. No offense. Take care.

 

[verdejt]

AmazingRobie from what you describe you definitely need a multi processor machine. If you don't have a lot of Thunderbolt devices then a cMP is a cheaper way to go. I have a 2010 27" iMac that has developed a video card issue so I was forced into replacing it. With not much ready cash I went the cMP route in hopes of getting about 3-5 years out of this machine. Hopefully by then I can afford a newer model. I love the iMac but after doing so in depth reading it seems that the 27" models run super hot and fry the video cards. The price to repair mine was around 700-800 dollars and then no guarantee that it would last. A little over 800 is what it cost me for this machine ( I purchased a new video card flashed for Mac. The one that came with it is just a PC video card) From what I read on a lot of the 27" older iMacs the video cards start to go out in a couple of years due to heat.

 

[OS6-OSX]

1. In FCP I have problems playing back 8K
2. In FCP the render times are waaaay too long
3. In Logic Audio midi is fine until I add over x-amount of NI instruments
4. I don't use Kontakt will the instruments play better if I did
5. I don't have a RAID setup so my HD speed is basic

With each "issue" there may be a solution that has nothing to do with a new or 5,1 computer.

Example: Question "The time line in Media Composer has a rough time playing multi trks or 4K-8K". "Which computer should I get to help with the playback and render times?"
Answer It's probably not your computer. Check Avid's list of qualified computers. They have the same issue! It's Avid's decades old playback engine. For faster render times export as an AAF, import into Davinci, render there using the Nvidia card you have that has 6-12GB of ram. After the faster rendering time based on CUDA cores, send back to Avid. Known as "round tripping" it is "the" solution.

A specific issue with a specific solution.

But it sounds like Dark Mode is the only issue

 

[AmazingRobie]

AmazingRobie from what you describe you definitely need a multi processor machine. If you don't have a lot of Thunderbolt devices then a cMP is a cheaper way to go. I have a 2010 27" iMac that has developed a video card issue so I was forced into replacing it. With not much ready cash I went the cMP route in hopes of getting about 3-5 years out of this machine. Hopefully by then I can afford a newer model. I love the iMac but after doing so in depth reading it seems that the 27" models run super hot and fry the video cards. The price to repair mine was around 700-800 dollars and then no guarantee that it would last. A little over 800 is what it cost me for this machine ( I purchased a new video card flashed for Mac. The one that came with it is just a PC video card) From what I read on a lot of the 27" older iMacs the video cards start to go out in a couple of years due to heat.

Imma probably look around for the next couple of days (maybe weeks) and see what I can find. I don't buy from eBay a whole lot, I have, but small things which I could insure they were working right when I got em like replacement pads for earphones and such...but buy Apple equipment off eBay given my track record of buying Apple products that fail, just kinda puts me off the whole idea. I haven't heard anything bad about the mac pros per se, not like the 2008 macbook pro graphic chip failures or the 2011 imac graphics chip/logic board failures and dark displays, but surely you can see why one might be hesitant to buy used on a marketplace like eBay given the dollar values we're speaking of here...which brings me to...

View attachment 775643
With each "issue" there may be a solution that has nothing to do with a new or 5,1 computer.

A specific issue with a specific solution.

But it sounds like Dark Mode is the only issue

...dear sir/madame, uh, my initial request is all regarding the purchase of a very specific machine I was contemplating as a replacement for my current one. Allah my questions were and still are about that model because up until it was pointed out that it doesn't have a thunderbolt port (which not being a total mac richard, I did not know) that was the only one which I was considered as an option.
My "needs" could be "wants" as far as you all are concerned, its a nunya beeswax type situation. Editing is slow in final cut, but that's besides the point here.

Yeah, I want dark mode because the imac I've been on has had its freakin graphics chip fail multiple times (hence the multiple replacements mentioned earlier in these posts, which has been expensive as f***), so I've been using it with the brightness turned all the way down as far as it will go and having to constantly monitor the systems heat status so the chip doesn't burn itself out too quick again, and I've also found it reduces my eye strain so I'm used to it.

But dark mode is hardly the only issue for the replacement and my initial request was never to ask the good people here for other options other than that specific machine. So specifics...nah.

Not meaning to sound rude (because I respect everyones input and appreciate the time you and others have taken out of your busy life cycle to even give answers/suggestions), but your little graphic and the overall tone of your last comment...irritates

Besides. I'd already written in the original post hours before that I wanted to close this discussion, so the point which you're trying to make, is a moot one my friend.