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AlexMaximus

macrumors 65816
Aug 15, 2006
1,239
583
A400M Base
In single thread workflow it is slower, it is pretty though. To the OP it’s complete overkill for your usage and in the next IMac update you might be really disappointed. Others suggested you wait, you chose not to, others suggested particular configurations working as you do. Again you chose not to follow their advice, that’s all good it is your money.

it is an overkill, but a very smart one. It is a professional workstation grade machine with a longer live span then a regular consumer machine. I think people should not compare that. A Pro machine will not die after apple care runs out. It will not overheat. The iMac Pro is designed for a very long professional live span and low noise. I think the OP will be home free for at least 6 to 8 years maybe even longer with a superb resale value at the end.

In brute reality, the CPU development has been stagnant for years and years now. This is because Intel has hit multiple physical thresholds in many ways. The game of doubling CPU speeds is long over. We only see very small incremental changes with a lot off marketing and re-labelling efforts. For the chip industry this is a very inconvenient truth. I know inside people at Infinion and other companies in that field. That cpu game is actually over. The next big thing is the quantum computer which is based on a completely new technology. If you really need a new machine now, there was never a better option then the iMac Pro, because there is nothing in the pipe left that would be really significant faster.
Ask yourself what really made the difference the last 5 years? Is was SSD not CPU !

But of course it depends how you look at it and how long you keep it. For me, reliability is very important and key. I really don't care about new CPUs at this point. I don't want to replace my machine every two years. I absolutely don't want a consumer machine with a bad risk of failure profile after three years. And since the iMac Pro supports eGPU with TB3, there is no problem coming up what so ever.
Many years ago I was in the same situation as the OP. I could have bought an iMac. Now lets ask the forum, how many 2012 iMac have failed after apple care so far, and how many MacPro 5,1 have failed so far?
THAT would be the only interesting question to ponder about.
 

helloineedhelp

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Apr 5, 2018
16
0
it is an overkill, but a very smart one. It is a professional workstation grade machine with a longer live span then a regular consumer machine. I think people should not compare that. A Pro machine will not die after apple care runs out. It will not overheat. The iMac Pro is designed for a very long professional live span and low noise. I think the OP will be home free for at least 6 to 8 years maybe even longer with a superb resale value at the end.

In brute reality, the CPU development has been stagnant for years and years now. This is because Intel has hit multiple physical thresholds in many ways. The game of doubling CPU speeds is long over. We only see very small incremental changes with a lot off marketing and re-labelling efforts. For the chip industry this is a very inconvenient truth. I know inside people at Infinion and other companies in that field. That cpu game is actually over. The next big thing is the quantum computer which is based on a completely new technology. If you really need a new machine now, there was never a better option then the iMac Pro, because there is nothing in the pipe left that would be really significant faster.
Ask yourself what really made the difference the last 5 years? Is was SSD not CPU !

But of course it depends how you look at it and how long you keep it. For me, reliability is very important and key. I really don't care about new CPUs at this point. I don't want to replace my machine every two years. I absolutely don't want a consumer machine with a bad risk of failure profile after three years. And since the iMac Pro supports eGPU with TB3, there is no problem coming up what so ever.
Many years ago I was in the same situation as the OP. I could have bought an iMac. Now lets ask the forum, how many 2012 iMac have failed after apple care so far, and how many MacPro 5,1 have failed so far?
THAT would be the only interesting question to ponder about.


Thanks for the great answer. Believe me. I really would hate to buy a machine for 3000-3500$ that would not hold on for 3-4 years without any problems.

I bought the iMac Pro because of 1. The design. 2. The long lifetime. 3.Because it was said to be a beast. 4. Resell value.

But, I am pretty annoyed about the speed. Since I am used to the computer responding instantly without loading (my MacBook Pro 2014 responded right away.) This iMac Pro loads sometimes 2-5 sec just going to a new youtube video/facebook page... Even when going into gmail it loads way more than my old MacBook Pro 2014.. - 2-5 sec

This was not anything that I thought I would experience.

I know of course it is Overkill but I really thought the speed would have been instant and way faster for what I bought.
 

AlexMaximus

macrumors 65816
Aug 15, 2006
1,239
583
A400M Base
Thanks for the great answer. Believe me. I really would hate to buy a machine for 3000-3500$ that would not hold on for 3-4 years without any problems.

I bought the iMac Pro because of 1. The design. 2. The long lifetime. 3.Because it was said to be a beast. 4. Resell value.

But, I am pretty annoyed about the speed. Since I am used to the computer responding instantly without loading (my MacBook Pro 2014 responded right away.) This iMac Pro loads sometimes 2-5 sec just going to a new youtube video/facebook page... Even when going into gmail it loads way more than my old MacBook Pro 2014.. - 2-5 sec

This was not anything that I thought I would experience.

I know of course it is Overkill but I really thought the speed would have been instant and way faster for what I bought.

That doesn't sound right. The way you describe it could be an installation issue, that would be my guess.
I have tested the iMac Pro in the Apple store in Munich and it was lightning fast. I think you should do a fresh reinstall.
Did you do a time machine installation from an older OSX ? You may want to try out a fresh installation from the current MacOS and load old date later with the migration assistant. Since High Sierra has a different file system, chances have become greater to somehow screw up the installation, it happened to me once as well.
 

helloineedhelp

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Apr 5, 2018
16
0
That doesn't sound right. The way you describe it could be an installation issue, that would be my guess.
I have tested the iMac Pro in the Apple store in Munich and it was lightning fast. I think you should do a fresh reinstall.
Did you do a time machine installation from an older OSX ? You may want to try out a fresh installation from the current MacOS and load old date later with the migration assistant. Since High Sierra has a different file system, chances have become greater to somehow screw up the installation, it happened to me once as well.

I did not put anything on the iMac Pro when I started it. I just started fresh and used USB to drag in 20x pages sites (so now file size.).

Other than that, I have it just like a brand new machine. With nothing added.

I did install Lr and Ps, but no other programs.

And still having this experience.

Would u still suggest me to reinstall it? Did not think I would need to worry about anything when buying a machine for 6000$.
 

burgman

macrumors 68030
Sep 24, 2013
2,801
2,387
Next iMac update? Are u meaning that the new iMac 2018 would beat the current iMac Pro? Or be close to?
For your usage a current model is fine as others said, Upgrade is unknown what will be included but the current 8th and now newer release are much faster than what’s in the IMac now. You have to understand on this website many push the fastest newest tech because it’s the new cool, with little regard for the basic concept of the right tool for the job. No different than car forums when someone asks for advice on new car, many recommend 500hp cars for commuting in the city. Imagine if your new Pro becomes orphaned like the trash can Mac Pro kinda did? Resale dead, software venders in prosumer catagory evaporates, then what? $1000 off sales is a red flag for the future of it.
 

helloineedhelp

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Apr 5, 2018
16
0
For your usage a current model is fine as others said, Upgrade is unknown what will be included but the current 8th and now newer release are much faster than what’s in the IMac now. You have to understand on this website many push the fastest newest tech because it’s the new cool, with little regard for the basic concept of the right tool for the job. No different than car forums when someone asks for advice on new car, many recommend 500hp cars for commuting in the city. Imagine if your new Pro becomes orphaned like the trash can Mac Pro kinda did? Resale dead, software venders in prosumer catagory evaporates, then what? $1000 off sales is a red flag for the future of it.

I thought I would love the iMac Pro because of the speed and so on but I kind a hate it because of the load time.......

I bought it because of longer lasting, design and speed but I really feel like it is missing that instant speed that I was looking for.
 

AlexMaximus

macrumors 65816
Aug 15, 2006
1,239
583
A400M Base
I did not put anything on the iMac Pro when I started it. I just started fresh and used USB to drag in 20x pages sites (so now file size.).

Other than that, I have it just like a brand new machine. With nothing added.

I did install Lr and Ps, but no other programs.

And still having this experience.

Would u still suggest me to reinstall it? Did not think I would need to worry about anything when buying a machine for 6000$.

If YouTube takes a long time to load, it could also be internet related or driver related on your router end. Don't forget, you have a super fast Network card in there, (10Gbit?) this may need a faster router that actually can process it or maybe a router firmware upgrade? (I did upgrade my link sys router firmware two times when wifi AC first hit the markets)
Check wifi settings and network settings.
Your internet service provider may also play a role in this? Check load speeds with a CAT5 network cable vs wifi speed as well. That fast network card is for sure not the standard in the industry, maybe it is throttled down somehow.
You can also call Apple care anytime since your Mac is brand new. You have at least 60 days free customer support which is usually world class. I have never been disappointed so far with apple care.

Hard to say from the distance. But if nothing else helps, it is not a big hassle, I would do a reinstall and see what happens.
The final quality check at the factory may only check performed install tasks but not speed. Who knows. Apple is great but not perfect. Also check the version of your High Sierra installation, maybe there is an update available or special versions for the iMac Pro because of your raid system..
Good luck, once it runs, it wont stop...
 

helloineedhelp

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Apr 5, 2018
16
0
If YouTube takes a long time to load, it could also be internet related or driver related on your router end. Don't forget, you have a super fast Network card in there, (10Gbit?) this may need a faster router that actually can process it or maybe a router firmware upgrade? (I did upgrade my link sys router firmware two times when wifi AC first hit the markets)
Check wifi settings and network settings.
Your internet service provider may also play a role in this? Check load speeds with a CAT5 network cable vs wifi speed as well. That fast network card is for sure not the standard in the industry, maybe it is throttled down somehow.
You can also call Apple care anytime since your Mac is brand new. You have at least 60 days free customer support which is usually world class. I have never been disappointed so far with apple care.

Hard to say from the distance. But if nothing else helps, it is not a big hassle, I would do a reinstall and see what happens.
The final quality check at the factory may only check performed install tasks but not speed. Who knows. Apple is great but not perfect. Also check the version of your High Sierra installation, maybe there is an update available or special versions for the iMac Pro because of your raid system..
Good luck, once it runs, it wont stop...


It for sure is a beauty of a computer, no question.

Apple has always been a great thing, had Apple products soon 10 years. Never changed.

My speed is as follows,

89,49 Mbit/s Downloading

83,34 Mbit/s Uploading

Are they bad?
 

Darmok N Jalad

macrumors 603
Sep 26, 2017
5,433
48,476
Tanagra (not really)
LOL, just stumbled across this post. If you had said 'wait 14 months...' you might have been more on target.
Looks like we are waiting even longer. I think if Apple makes a 6 core iMac option, it would encroach on iMac Pro territory. The iMac Pro may have shot our hopes down.

I’ve owned my 2017 almost a year now. Even the base 5K model is pretty quick. Under Bootcamp is has no problems playing games at 1080p high. Certainly not 5K, but they still look great on that big display.
 

tomscott1988

macrumors 6502a
Apr 14, 2009
711
699
UK
To be productive you need a fluid experience and unfortunately non of the 2017 i based iMacs will give you that in lightroom. Lets get the elephant in the room out the way first. Lightroom is not well optimized and will not run buttery unless you have high end hardware. This isnt really apples fault as RAW files are fluid in photos but lightroom... not so much. Lightroom has got better but it has a long long way to go and if you work with lightroom on the daily you need to bare that in mind as spending £1500-3000 on a current iMac probably isnt the best way to get that performance needed for fluid workflow.

The mid range iMac is not suitable IMO. Lightroom is a hog and it needs as much power as possible. Sliders can be very laggy, adjustment brushes can be almost unusable. Depends on the files your using so using JPGs will be lass taxing.

It depends what files your using too. My 5DMKIII raw files perform ok, my 6DMKII and 5DMKIV lag a little and my 5DSr files are a pain.

I bought my father the base 2017 iMac with a 2TB fusion as the only upgrade, there is barely any data on it so the SSD is pretty much the only portion used. I exported a wedding as a catalog and was really disapointed at the performance compared to my almost decade old mac pro.

Im a wedding and events photographer and I couldn't do my work on it, lightroom was far too slow. If your editing 500 images and it takes 1-3 seconds every time you zoom to 100% to render a preview even at lower resolution and its laggy as you move around it really slows you down. Say it takes 2 seconds thats an extra 17 minutes on your workflow of 500 images.

The base level iMac performed a fair amount slower than my 9 year old mac pro in my sig, although it benches quicker single and about the same multi its slower because of the display.

My mac pro is mated to a 27" ACD which is 2560x1440 and the difference is night and day.

A lot of it is the graphics card, lightroom will use GPU acceleration on the iMac because its a high resolution display, even when you set the preview size at 2560 it still takes ages to render because the sliders are trying to run at 60FPS and pushing the amount of pixels on the display is GPU and CPU intensive. That 5k display is 14mp as it is.

The iMac pro struggles far less because it has a much more powerful GPU and more cores but a lower clock speed it also lacks the added extras the i series has like quick sync and H265 encoding that helps on the video side. For the money difference I don't think its worth it for me as I do quite a bit of video work too.

I would agree on the SSD portion it definitely worth the money in this application. I never get rid of my smart previews in my lightroom library because I often revisit so I want it to be speedy when I do, lightroom has to rebuild each preview as you work which is annoying. By default Lightroom gets rid of them after 30 days. My 2018 lightroom library is sitting at 200gbs and if you want the best performance put the RAW files on a traditional drive as they cache and its far cheaper (I usually use at least a 4TB hdd per year so SSD storage doesn't make financial sense) and put the stuff that needs the speed like the OS/Apps/library/previews on the SSD.

The fusion only has a 128gb portion so the likelihood is once you have your OS and apps that 128 drive will be full. You can always buy external blade storage like the samsung x5 but they are as much as upgrading the internal storage.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07GL8M...t=&hvlocphy=9046623&hvtargid=pla-562941756642

The i7 is the best here, it runs lightroom fairly well from my experience but the fans will start on export and the adjustment brush is still very laggy, again this is a lightroom issue but there are limitations with the iMac hardware.

At the end of the day the iMac is a mid range machine with components like the 5K display that can be more of a hindrance than a help when it comes down to doing actual work, they take a lot of resources to run as it is.

Im waiting for the new mac pro to see what it offers. Ive been thinking about the 5K i7 iMac as an interim but I just cant justify spending that much on an older computer especially when the 9th gen chips are on their way, it doesn't offer too much more than my current machine, loose my storage capability and at the end of the day it throttles and you loose that performance gain because of apples poor cooling solution.

The iMac Pro is better but you still have all the issues of an all in one. ECC ram is a lot less resiliant than normal ram as it error corrects all the time it works much harder. Ive had 4 sticks go in my mac pros since 2008, you just take the faulty stick out and crack on and order another. With the iMac pro you will loose the machine for 2 weeks to apple and who knows what condition it will be in when it comes back.

You could wait for the next iMac but who knows when its coming. People who think they know what they are talking about like Fishrrman have been telling people for ages but alas all their predictions have been wrong.

What you can draw from the next iMac is that it will be using the newer CPUs the apple K series tend to bench slightly lower than their windows counterparts. The 8700k in PCs is benching between 6-6500 single and up to 30k multi but thats with adequate cooling. But will apple use 9th gen? Who knows but the next high end CPU will be as powerful as the current base iMac pro for probably 30% less money.

It will use Vega which in the macbook pro has seen 20-30% gains over the 5 series which would be a nice addition, the ram is also on the chip making it more efficient. If there is a redesign then possibly no user ram upgrades, who knows what the cooling solution will be like. Maybe they add the iMac pro cooling which is still not optimal the Xeons still run too hot.

Sounds crazy but building a PC with powerful components might be a better option... I also have PCs with my macs, W10 works well and you can get the components you want when you need rather than waiting for apple to give you out of date hardware at top dollar. Then again putting a PC together and matching the 5K display is a similar cost...

Not the best time to be looking at a desktop everything but the mac mini is out of date.

Im interested to see what the mac pro brings, whether it will still be a consumer product or whether it will be in the stratosphere with 50 odd cores and start at 10-15k... we will see.
 

mpe

macrumors 6502
Sep 3, 2010
334
205
To be productive you need a fluid experience and unfortunately non of the 2017 i based iMacs will give you that in lightroom. Lets get the elephant in the room out the way first. Lightroom is not well optimized and will not run buttery unless you have high end hardware. This isnt really apples fault as RAW files are fluid in photos but lightroom... not so much. Lightroom has got better but it has a long long way to go and if you work with lightroom on the daily you need to bare that in mind as spending £1500-3000 on a current iMac probably isnt the best way to get that performance needed for fluid workflow..

I would go even further and say that the Lightroom Classic won't run "buttery" on any hardware. No matter how much you spent.

I use iMac Pro with 36mpx RAWs. While the performance is definitely usable, it isn't fluid like other photo apps are.

The Lighroom CC (the reworked cloud-only version) works very well. On almost any hardware if you can work with its limitations.
 

tomscott1988

macrumors 6502a
Apr 14, 2009
711
699
UK
The nice thing about lightroom CC is that it was made from the ground up... but Classic has all the features...

Time will tell. Most of Adobe software is a mess the most recent update has made indesign illustrator and premier extremely unreliable, constant crashes so laggy. So fed up of paying the premium and getting sub par performance.

I have it installed on 3 devices too, a gaming PC with decent specs, a Dell workstation and my mac pro all have the same problems so its not platform specific.
 

BigBoy2018

Suspended
Oct 23, 2018
964
1,822
The nice thing about lightroom CC is that it was made from the ground up... but Classic has all the features...

Time will tell. Most of Adobe software is a mess the most recent update has made indesign illustrator and premier extremely unreliable, constant crashes so laggy. So fed up of paying the premium and getting sub par performance.

I have it installed on 3 devices too, a gaming PC with decent specs, a Dell workstation and my mac pro all have the same problems so its not platform specific.

Noted. Didn't realize there were significant problems with the latest update of Premiere. The good thing is, Adobe allows us to keep previous versions and that's what I've done. I often just use the 2015.3 release of Premiere because I KNOW it's rock solid.
 

Mr. Bell

macrumors newbie
Dec 9, 2018
9
1
Has Apple ever released an early year iMac? Probably not seeing a new iMac until mid to late 2019. Oh and use a real editor like Photoshop, Lightroom is for kids.
 

BigBoy2018

Suspended
Oct 23, 2018
964
1,822
There is a reason is half the price of Photoshop, it’s half the program. It’s basicLly Photoshop lite, but if that’s all you need then cool.

Any idea if photoshop performs better than lightroom?
I’m not a heavy user of either so when I have used lightroom, I havent noticed the sluggishness mentioned in earlier posts here.
But again, that may be because I’ve never stressed either program much.
 

Mr. Bell

macrumors newbie
Dec 9, 2018
9
1
Any idea if photoshop performs better than lightroom?
I’m not a heavy user of either so when I have used lightroom, I havent noticed the sluggishness mentioned in earlier posts here.
But again, that may be because I’ve never stressed either program much.

Lightroom is basically a glorified organizer with some presets built in. It works with a large number of RAW files better than Photoshop, but it’s nowhere near as powerful or robust for those of us who retouch photos. If you only do very basic edits to photos, LR is ok but it’s not a full on program for retouching photos.
 

tomscott1988

macrumors 6502a
Apr 14, 2009
711
699
UK
Any idea if photoshop performs better than lightroom?
I’m not a heavy user of either so when I have used lightroom, I havent noticed the sluggishness mentioned in earlier posts here.
But again, that may be because I’ve never stressed either program much.

Like I said depends on the size of the files. iPhone jpgs for example are a breeze but a 50mp full frame raw file is really quite taxing.

Lightroom is completely none destructive, it reads the RAW, creates a preview, then when you edit the file the edits are written to the library. If you want it can also write an exif file like it would in camera raw. The main benefit is that it uses a library so you can sort and batch edit with ease. Photoshop has all the features of Lightroom and more and if you are editing one image may be fine but the majority of professional photographers do not. Many edit hundreds if not thousands of images at a time. Photoshop isn't the correct tool for this process, it is a pixel based program with photographs being just one part of its skill set. It has many other assets that accommodate graphic designers, architects, animators, publishers, photographers and even 3D artists etc

Lightroom came about by putting the relevant parts of photoshop with the ability to quickly view images like bridge and made one program. Bridge has always been slow and photoshop has so many features it can be daunting and take longer to do the things you want to do, unless you use scripts its also difficult to do the same thing to multiple images.

The main reason Lightroom is slow is because it is essentially creating complex mathematical equations as it goes that are written rather than actually manipulating pixels physically. This is why the adjustment tool and the spot healing tool in Lightroom are sluggish. What ever the code base they are using, its really old and not very efficient which is why they designed another version of Lightroom specifically for mobile "Lightroom CC" and created all the features from scratch. Obviously this takes time and eventually all the features will feature in CC. The difference is it is cloud based so nothing is local all is in the cloud.

This is great because the files are accessible from any device that supports Lightroom anywhere in the world but obviously if you do large amounts of shooting then it can take time to get images into the cloud and the space wont last forever therefore you have to pay more.

Ive been a professional photographer for over 15 years and before I started using Lightroom, my workflow solely consisted of Adobe Camera RAW (which allows opening, manipulating and converting RAW files) and Photoshop (which I used to fine-tune images before saving them into my hard drive). It was a complex, cumbersome and inefficient process, even after I semi-automated it through a batch process in Photoshop. The biggest challenge was organising edited images on my hard drive, sorting and cataloging them. I am not even going to talk about finding images, because it was an impossible task that required reviewing thousands of thumbnails and image metadata in order to find what I was looking for or using 2 or 3 additional programs. Lightroom was designed to solve these issues.

Photoshop is a great addition to do more complex edits that Lightroom can't. For example clone, healing and selection work or larger photo manipulations but photoshop has become too advanced and it takes far longer to do the same thing. Once your photo is rendered out of camera raw then it is now destructible, although an exif will also be created. Photoshop is essentially used for retouching which is the final stage and if your delivery 500 images you don't spend endless hours retouching every image. Select the right tool for the right job.

So yes you can do the same image manipulations in photoshop but Lightroom has the tools where you need them and makes editing a breeze.

Same with the whole CC program library, you can type set in illustrator or photoshop but Indesign is the correct tool. You can illustrate in indesign but Illustrator is the correct tool. Selecting the right tool to do the right job saves you time and time = money.
 
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