Call for opinions: high-end 27" iMac with gaming in mind

[0186279]

If you have a Macbook Pro why not:

1. Build/buy a gaming rig with Windows
2. Buy a monitor that is as aesthetically pleasing as the iMac screen.
3. Plug your MBP into the screen. Upgrade your MBP if it needs an SSD, more ram etc.

You get to keep using OSX with a beefy machine (assuming you have a decent MBP) and can have both computers using the screen. You can even hide the windows box if you think it ruins the aesthetics of your setup or whatever.

You can do all of this and still have a better gaming computer while spending less than the iMac would cost you. You could even probably by a new Macbook Pro and build a better gaming rig than the iMac for around the same price as the iMac you want to get, which won't be upgradeable in the future.

 

[jeanlain]

Interesting. Wonder what the details are of the upgraded SSDs in the new iMac.

I posted a separate thread about this, but do we think response time / input lag is a big deal on these iMacs? If I'm paying $3k for a top-shelf all-in-one, I'm going to be awfully annoyed if there's input lag or ghosting on the panel during fast movements or rendering during games. Unsure if a function of the wireless mouse (easy enough, already have a Razer mouse in my Amazon cart) or the panel/system itself. Of course, gaming will be in Windows 10 via Boot Camp.

I don't see why the input lag should depend on the specific panel as long as it is 60Hz like most others. You need a wired mouse for gaming.
As for ghosting, I don't know. I'd be surprised it the Apple display suffered this. Some say it may have image retention though.

 

[HowDoYouLikeThemApples?]

Pretty sure you'll need to use an external monitor with the eGPU.

Incorrect, Apple official high sierra support will fix this issue as it was lined out in the developer notes. Tinkers have already found a way to do this in macosx with some terminal commands.

 

[exi]

If you have a Macbook Pro why not:

1. Build/buy a gaming rig with Windows
2. Buy a monitor that is as aesthetically pleasing as the iMac screen.
3. Plug your MBP into the screen. Upgrade your MBP if it needs an SSD, more ram etc.

You get to keep using OSX with a beefy machine (assuming you have a decent MBP) and can have both computers using the screen. You can even hide the windows box if you think it ruins the aesthetics of your setup or whatever.

You can do all of this and still have a better gaming computer while spending less than the iMac would cost you. You could even probably by a new Macbook Pro and build a better gaming rig than the iMac for around the same price as the iMac you want to get, which won't be upgradeable in the future.

Definitely a thought. Was looking for a reason to get a Henge Dock. I think part of my reason for erring towards the iMac thing is that when I do game, it's not going to be as seriously as I did years ago where I was a league player building my own machine, helped admin a big online organization, etc.

I don't see why the input lag should depend on the specific panel as long as it is 60Hz like most others. You need a wired mouse for gaming.
As for ghosting, I don't know. I'd be surprised it the Apple display suffered this. Some say it may have image retention though.

A quick Google search says it's 60 Hz at 5K (Ars Technica ran an article on this years ago, too, turns out -- https://arstechnica.com/apple/2014/...imacs-screen-runs-at-60hz-at-5k-resolution/); I came across a post elsewhere which claimed a 16 ms response time at one point but can't speak to accuracy or other details.

 

[jjjoseph]

IMHO a Beefy AMD Gpu on the inside of the iMac with a Beefy Nvidia eGPU on the outside is the best of both worlds for OS X. If you value space and you want a nice compact desktop setup you will have your basis covered for gaming and app support. The eGPU is not small but if you can get an enclosure to match the iMac it will look just like an external hard drive. I would get the beefed out Radeon Pro 580 27" then when High Sierra comes out get a 1080Ti, or just get the TB3 AKiTiO now and bootcamp into Windows for gaming. The TB3 AKiTiO should be officially supported when High Sierra comes out, but don't quote me on it.

You will be set because you will only have to deal with one computer and Apple Loves its AMD/OpenCL/Metal2 GPU accereration, so if you wanna mess with Final Cut Pro X, or if Apple decides to get into high end software again, you have a decent AMD GPU setup.

Then when you need CUDA or high end gaming, BAM! You got a 1080Ti ready to kick some gaming or CUDA "a double s." Consolidating all your needs into a single small desktop space will be dare I say, awesome?

 

[epca12]

With external graphics support coming, it would be tempting to go with the iMac and have a home/work machine and a gaming machine in one. Obviously money would be saved if you go for a PC, and it'll have better performance

 

[Truefan31]

I'm not sure how an egpu can be used to send video to the screen of a new iMac. How do you get from the graphics card video out to the iMac screen? Is an external monitor necessary to use an egpu for gaming? Maybe Apple could bring back the Target Display mode to allow the use of an egpu for gaming.

I'm sure they'll allow it though. Doesn't seem to be an issue on the mbp using a egpu.

 

[Maven1975]

It can be done

Check egpu.io for all your egpu questions.

 

[PJivan]

Incorrect, Apple official high sierra support will fix this issue as it was lined out in the developer notes. Tinkers have already found a way to do this in macosx with some terminal commands.

Can you post the source please?
Do you need to have 2 TB connected?

 

[exi]

Not just about gaming, but Ars posted an article about iMac hardware over time, from years ago to now, as I posted in another thread here. For anyone interested: https://arstechnica.com/apple/2017/...f-high-end-imac-performance-from-2012-to-now/

 

[Truefan31]

There you go. Egpu supported. High sierra will make it even better.

Unfortunately target display is not supported. Looks like my 2013 is here to stay for now.

 

[francois_paris]

I got a new imac 27' with the Radeon pro 580. I installed bootcamp on a external Samsung t3 SSD drive, to save some space on my ssd internal drive, it works wonderfully!
I installed witcher 3, the game runs at 60fps 1440p with all graphics to maximum (except "hairworks" which is useless in my opinion). I'm very happy with the GPU. First time in my life i feel like my mac is a very decent game machine.
GTA V also run very well, test scenes shows between 60 and 80 FPS, at 1440 with almost all settings to maximum except MSAA)

 

[jeanlain]

How do you find the sharpness of games at 1440p ? Some say it's much worse than on a native 1440 display.

 

[francois_paris]

I think the sharpness is really good. But I don't have a native 1440p screen so I can't make a real side by side comparaison.
Maybe I'm not perfectionist enough on this, but in my opinion, graphics are really beautiful and sharp. It doesn't appear blurry or anything.
I come from a 2011 imac though.

 

[gian8989]

I got a new imac 27' with the Radeon pro 580. I installed bootcamp on a external Samsung t3 SSD drive, to save some space on my ssd internal drive, it works wonderfully!
I installed witcher 3, the game runs at 60fps 1440p with all graphics to maximum (except "hairworks" which is useless in my opinion). I'm very happy with the GPU. First time in my life i feel like my mac is a very decent game machine.
GTA V also run very well, test scenes shows between 60 and 80 FPS, at 1440 with almost all settings to maximum except MSAA)

Do you have i5 or i7? What is the GPU temp during a gaming session? Does the fan make a lot of noise?

 

[BuCkDoG]

I think the sharpness is really good. But I don't have a native 1440p screen so I can't make a real side by side comparaison.
Maybe I'm not perfectionist enough on this, but in my opinion, graphics are really beautiful and sharp. It doesn't appear blurry or anything.
I come from a 2011 imac though.

What is the temps you are getting for the CPU and GPU while gaming? There has been many comments about how loud the fan is as well so how is that been for you? Also anyway you could post some screenshots of what games look like at 1440p? I too am curious what games look like at 1440p versus the 5k panel.

 

[francois_paris]

What is the temps you are getting for the CPU and GPU while gaming? There has been many comments about how loud the fan is as well so how is that been for you? Also anyway you could post some screenshots of what games look like at 1440p? I too am curious what games look like at 1440p versus the 5k panel.

I didn't check the temperature yet. But the drivers are yet to be updated. Sometime the fans are going crazy on windows, for no particular reason. There are also some weird framerate drops. I switch to windows, then I come back to the game and everything is back to normal. Surely amd drivers issues which should be fixed soon.

In general the fans are barely audible. I did some work on final cut pro, then we can hear the fans but it's really acceptable. I don't think there is nothing to worry about the fans or the noise.

The CPU of my iMac 27" 2017 is a i7.

Also, my internal drive is a SSD, which should be much cooler than a fusion drive. Maybe that makes the difference.

I'll try to do some screenshots and send it soon!

 

[BuCkDoG]

I didn't check the temperature yet. But the drivers are yet to be updated. Sometime the fans are going crazy on windows, for no particular reason. There are also some weird framerate drops. I switch to windows, then I come back to the game and everything is back to normal. Surely amd drivers issues which should be fixed soon.

In general the fans are barely audible. I did some work on final cut pro, then we can hear the fans but it's really acceptable. I don't think there is nothing to worry about the fans or the noise.

The CPU of my iMac 27" 2017 is a i7.

Also, my internal drive is a SSD, which should be much cooler than a fusion drive. Maybe that makes the difference.

I'll try to do some screenshots and send it soon!

Awesome thanks for the update! I certainly appreciate it because I'm pretty much all in on this iMac providing the fans are not insanely loud. Playing WoW on this panel is going to be godlike for me lol

 

[gian8989]

I didn't check the temperature yet. But the drivers are yet to be updated. Sometime the fans are going crazy on windows, for no particular reason. There are also some weird framerate drops. I switch to windows, then I come back to the game and everything is back to normal. Surely amd drivers issues which should be fixed soon.

In general the fans are barely audible. I did some work on final cut pro, then we can hear the fans but it's really acceptable. I don't think there is nothing to worry about the fans or the noise.

The CPU of my iMac 27" 2017 is a i7.

Also, my internal drive is a SSD, which should be much cooler than a fusion drive. Maybe that makes the difference.

I'll try to do some screenshots and send it soon!

K ty. It is probably just some defected fans like with the first release of the 2015 5k that had clicking sound + unoptimize bootcamp/amd driver.
My main problem is the noise. I skipped both 2014 and 2015 release because of gpu temp and noise.
I don't use the imac for gaming buy I can't stand noise and the fact that I like to stay in summer in my room with 30° C without the air conditioning doen't help iMac temp.

 

[Haswell]

 

[francois_paris]

K ty. It is probably just some defected fans like with the first release of the 2015 5k that had clicking sound + unoptimize bootcamp/amd driver.
My main problem is the noise. I skipped both 2014 and 2015 release because of gpu temp and noise.
I don't use the imac for gaming buy I can't stand noise and the fact that I like to stay in summer in my room with 30° C without the air conditioning doen't help iMac temp.

Crazy fans only happened a few times on windows. It didn't happen again since yesterday. I personally don't think the fans are defected. It's certainly related to the bootcamp amd drivers, and will certainly be fixed. Other than that, the iMac 27" is a quiet machine for me.


Here are the screenshots, from the witcher 3 and GTA V. Framerate is ~ 60FPS in both games. I play in 1440p. Graphic settings are mostly on "ultra", excepting some useless stuff like Nvidia hairworks. I turn vertical sync off as it doesn't seem to be needed.
Now I have to see how I can get the temperatures in windows.
t

 

[francois_paris]

Some more screenshots

 

[BuCkDoG]

Some more screenshots
View attachment 704498View attachment 704499View attachment 704500View attachment 704501View attachment 704502View attachment 704503View attachment 704504View attachment 704505View attachment 704506

Thank you thank you!! So those screenshots are in 1440p which still look very solid so I'm not at all worried now as games will play at that res on max settings which is great! And your saying the fans aren't too bad even when fully taxed so that's a huge deal! Thanks again!

 

[nyc2pdx]

I got a new imac 27' with the Radeon pro 580. I installed bootcamp on a external Samsung t3 SSD drive, to save some space on my ssd internal drive, it works wonderfully!
I installed witcher 3, the game runs at 60fps 1440p with all graphics to maximum (except "hairworks" which is useless in my opinion). I'm very happy with the GPU. First time in my life i feel like my mac is a very decent game machine.
GTA V also run very well, test scenes shows between 60 and 80 FPS, at 1440 with almost all settings to maximum except MSAA)

How did you install bootcamp on the external SSD? I looked everywhere for instructions to do this, but found none. I broke down and installed it on my internal, but I really wanted it on my external. Are you running the entire bootcamp partition on the T3?
[doublepost=1497717249][/doublepost]I am having no issues with x-plane 11 on my rig, pulling 40-50fps

 

[francois_paris]

How did you install bootcamp on the external SSD? I looked everywhere for instructions to do this, but found none. I broke down and installed it on my internal, but I really wanted it on my external. Are you running the entire bootcamp partition on the T3?
[doublepost=1497717249][/doublepost]I am having no issues with x-plane 11 on my rig, pulling 40-50fps

Yes, my entire bootcamp+windows is on my external samsung T3 SSD. It's fast, maybe not as fast as the internal ssd drive, but it's more than enough to play games, and it shouldn't have any impact on framerates.

This method is easy, and that's the only method that worked for me:

[doublepost=1497720445][/doublepost]Here are the temperatures.

This is idle:


This is after 10mn of gameplay (witcher 3) :



This software doesn't seem to be able to get the fan speed. Fans were working, I could hear them, it wasn't that noisy. Really acceptable fan noise, knowing that it's quite hot here today, temperature in my room is 29' C / 84,2' F.
Do you think the temperature (about 91'C = 195,8 F) is acceptable, or bad for the GPU??