Can some of you guys with 2010/2009 Mac Pro's give me your Max load temp readouts...

[nanofrog]

If you're asking have I tried using the CPU that was originally under heatsink A before it was lapped with heatsink A after it was lapped, the answer is no.

Yes, this is what I was asking.

I wanted to be sure that the contact surface on the cooler wasn't an issue (both if there really is a noticeable difference in the CPU's; that is, with the improved contact surface, that one of the CPU's will still run more than a degree or two cooler in the same socket). That's why I was wondering if you'd done a CPU swap after lapping the cooler in question.

Now if one does run hotter, then place each one in the best location in order to keep them cool (i.e. hottest CPU in the cooler that gets the most cool ambient air <should be CPU A IIRC>).

I'm not saying that you've a problematic CPU, but the post cooler lapping swap will prove it, and also allow you to see which CPU may run cooler under it, even if it's just by a couple of degrees (67 - 72C should be fine anyway, as there is a little margin; just not a lot). There's more variance for limited use (i.e. can run hotter for short periods of time, and Intel has thermal data on this if you want to read up on the data sheets for your CPU family). But the higher temps aren't meant for 100% duty cycles (24/7 operation at load). This is where the 67C figure comes from, as that's what is stated as the max temp value for 24/7 operation.

I just decided to eliminate as many factors as I could in one go. So I removed both heatsinks, swapped around the processors and the known cool running CPU in socketB/HeatsinkB was put into SocketA\Heatsink A and is it turned out the CPU's had nothing to do with it, both run at near same max (67c -72c diode temp) temperatures under Heatsink B and both run hot under heatsink A (diode temperature of 85c, heatsink temp of 73c or so as reported by hardware monitor)

85C is too hot for 24/7 operation. Even for extended periods of time (past Intel's thermal profiles), will cause damage (presuming that you will exceed Intel's thermal profiles for higher temp/duty cycle operations as a means of playing it safe).

Which is why I'm trying to help you find a way to get CPU B as cool as possible (tricks like lapping cooler B + finding the CPU of the pair that runs the coolest under load placed at location CPU B).

As mentioned, it would also be a good idea to get software to ramp up the fan speeds as a means of getting the load temp where it needs to be (you'll have to deal with the additional noise for the additional air flow), as both methodologies are cheaper than replacing the cooler for CPU B (and certainly cheaper than having to replace a CPU).

BTW, I'm assuming the CPU's aren't actually that different from one another, so the cooler lapping and fan control software are the biggest things you can try. But as the lapping hasn't had that much of an effect, swapping CPU's to find the coolest one for socket B isn't a bad idea either.

Hopefully this will give you an idea of my train of thought anyway.

 

[JollyJoeJoe]

Yes, this is what I was asking.

I wanted to be sure that the contact surface on the cooler wasn't an issue (both if there really is a noticeable difference in the CPU's; that is, with the improved contact surface, that one of the CPU's will still run more than a degree or two cooler in the same socket). That's why I was wondering if you'd done a CPU swap after lapping the cooler in question.

Now if one does run hotter, then place each one in the best location in order to keep them cool (i.e. hottest CPU in the cooler that gets the most cool ambient air <should be CPU A IIRC>).

I'm not saying that you've a problematic CPU, but the post cooler lapping swap will prove it, and also allow you to see which CPU may run cooler under it, even if it's just by a couple of degrees (67 - 72C should be fine anyway, as there is a little margin; just not a lot). There's more variance for limited use (i.e. can run hotter for short periods of time, and Intel has thermal data on this if you want to read up on the data sheets for your CPU family). But the higher temps aren't meant for 100% duty cycles (24/7 operation at load). This is where the 67C figure comes from, as that's what is stated as the max temp value for 24/7 operation.


85C is too hot for 24/7 operation. Even for extended periods of time (past Intel's thermal profiles), will cause damage (presuming that you will exceed Intel's thermal profiles for higher temp/duty cycle operations as a means of playing it safe).

Which is why I'm trying to help you find a way to get CPU B as cool as possible (tricks like lapping cooler B + finding the CPU of the pair that runs the coolest under load placed at location CPU B).

As mentioned, it would also be a good idea to get software to ramp up the fan speeds as a means of getting the load temp where it needs to be (you'll have to deal with the additional noise for the additional air flow), as both methodologies are cheaper than replacing the cooler for CPU B (and certainly cheaper than having to replace a CPU).

BTW, I'm assuming the CPU's aren't actually that different from one another, so the cooler lapping and fan control software are the biggest things you can try. But as the lapping hasn't had that much of an effect, swapping CPU's to find the coolest one for socket B isn't a bad idea either.

Hopefully this will give you an idea of my train of thought anyway.

Any idea if the heatsinks on the early 2009 dual socket Mac Pro's are the same as on the mid 2010 5,1 models? I recall someone saying the 2009 8-core has virtually no difference to 2010 model, however the heatsinks do look different and cost less for the 2009 so I presume they are different.

I am asking because I think it would be easier for me just to get a new heatsink instead of trying to rectify the current underperforming one if it's even possible and the ones widely available for sale seem to be all from 2009 models.

Looking at buying this one:
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160584686955&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_867wt_901

Also I presume it's not possible to latch on some extra fans on these heatsinks as there are no available fan power connector headers ?

There's obviously something wrong with that heatsink as either processors runs at acceptable temps under heatsink B and the positioning does not appear to have much to do with it as others have posted their temp results and the difference is little to none. Using MX-4 Arctic Silver non conductive, which is just as good AS5 +- 1c so changing thermal paste would not help me much I think.

 

[nanofrog]

Any idea if the heatsinks on the early 2009 dual socket Mac Pro's are the same as on the mid 2010 5,1 models? I recall someone saying the 2009 8-core has virtually no difference to 2010 model, however the heatsinks do look different and cost less for the 2009 so I presume they are different.

The 2010 DP systems added the latch mechanisms that are usually present on the CPU sockets, as well as went to using CPU's with an IHS (standard OEM CPU offerings from Intel). So they would have had to adjust for the height, and different P/N's would be expected.

The newer P/N's may work for you if you've swapped out the original CPU's for ones that have IHS's in them (can't recall which CPU's you're running), since the CPU is taller than the latch mechanism.

I am asking because I think it would be easier for me just to get a new heatsink instead of trying to rectify the current under-performing one if it's even possible and the ones widely available for sale seem to be all from 2009 models.

Looking at buying this one:
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160584686955&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_867wt_901

I would think so. As to which one to use (2009 or 2010 cooler P/N), it will depend on the CPU's your currently using (equipped with an IHS or not).

If it's still under warranty, I'd try to get Apple to cover the replacement (they'd only use the 2009 P/N, but it would be free).

Also I presume it's not possible to latch on some extra fans on these heatsinks as there are no available fan power connector headers ?

I wouldn't say it's 100% impossible, but difficult (would need to splice into the existing CPU fan's wiring). It would also void any remaining Apple Care, so that may be reason enough to skip something like this, unless you'd be willing to replace the cooler with a new one before it was taken into an Apple Store.

There's obviously something wrong with that heatsink as either processors runs at acceptable temps under heatsink B and the positioning does not appear to have much to do with it as others have posted their temp results and the difference is little to none. Using MC-4 Arctic Silver non conductive, which is just as good AS5 +- 1c so changing thermal paste would not help me much I think.

Definitely a bad cooler. I was just trying to think of ways you could accomplish your goal without having to go buy one, as they're not exactly what most would consider "pocket change".

But pursuing a warranty replacement would be the way to go if it's still covered.

 

[JollyJoeJoe]

The 2010 DP systems added the latch mechanisms that are usually present on the CPU sockets, as well as went to using CPU's with an IHS (standard OEM CPU offerings from Intel). So they would have had to adjust for the height, and different P/N's would be expected.

The newer P/N's may work for you if you've swapped out the original CPU's for ones that have IHS's in them (can't recall which CPU's you're running), since the CPU is taller than the latch mechanism.


I would think so. As to which one to use (2009 or 2010 cooler P/N), it will depend on the CPU's your currently using (equipped with an IHS or not).

If it's still under warranty, I'd try to get Apple to cover the replacement (they'd only use the 2009 P/N, but it would be free).


I wouldn't say it's 100% impossible, but difficult (would need to splice into the existing CPU fan's wiring). It would also void any remaining Apple Care, so that may be reason enough to skip something like this, unless you'd be willing to replace the cooler with a new one before it was taken into an Apple Store.


Definitely a bad cooler. I was just trying to think of ways you could accomplish your goal without having to go buy one, as they're not exactly what most would consider "pocket change".

But pursuing a warranty replacement would be the way to go if it's still covered.

I have the 2010 DP 5,1 Mac Pro. I purchased it new off an auction. It came with 2x quad core westmere's with IHS.

I upgraded the machine to 2x X5690 hex core, turning it into a 12-core unit.

So the Mac Pro 2009 8-core DP model heatsinks won't cut it me thinks, it also does not look like the 2009 model heatsink A has the gap cut out in them that goes over a small heatsink on the processor board like in the 2010 model heatsink A.

I do not think it's a warranty issue because the underperforming heatsink would still keep the older 2.4GHz Westmere's at acceptable temps, just not the X5690. If you don't recall I also gave the underperforming heatsink A a slight lapping which did nothing to help. If I do try for warranty can I just send them the Heatsink ? Because I have the MaxUpgrade backplane HDD adapter kits, SSD power/data backplane extension cable installed already and 3rd party RAID which I presume are not inline with the warranty terms.

 

[nanofrog]

I have the 2010 DP 5,1 Mac Pro. I purchased it new off an auction. It came with 2x quad core westmere's with IHS.

I upgraded the machine to 2x X5690 hex core, turning it into a 12-core unit.

So the Mac Pro 2009 8-core DP model heatsinks won't cut it me thinks, it also does not look like the 2009 model heatsink A has the gap cut out in them that goes over a small heatsink on the processor board like in the 2010 model heatsink A.

I wasn't sure of which model you had, but figured it was a 2009 (possibly with a firmware flash for running B1 stepped parts).

I do not think it's a warranty issue because the under-performing heatsink would still keep the older 2.4GHz Westmere's at acceptable temps, just not the X5690. If you don't recall I also gave the under-performing heatsink A a slight lapping which did nothing to help. If I do try for warranty can I just send them the Heatsink ? Because I have the MaxUpgrade backplane HDD adapter kits, SSD power/data backplane extension cable installed already and 3rd party RAID which I presume are not inline with the warranty terms.

I recalled the lapping, just not the exact CPU's or if it was a 2009 or 2010.

There's a difference between the fastest DP CPU Apple uses X5670 (2.93GHz) and the X5690 (95W and 130W respectively). But showing the difference with the existing CPU's should be enough to prove the case from a technical POV (shows that they're off by quite a bit of one another). BTW, the coolers are meant to run under varied conditions, so they're usually over-designed = will handle more than they're rated for; this is particularly the case for those used with enterprise grade CPU's).

Unfortunately, like you, I don't think they'd acknowledge that fact due to the upgraded CPU's. But maybe you'll get lucky and either Apple will ship you the part, or the Genius won't pay attention.

As per shipping you the part, it seems this has been done for some. But the usual way they do business is to have the owner bring in the system. The difference may have to do with your distance from the closest Apple Store.

Worth a shot IMO, so I'd give it a try first (much easier than pulling all the upgrades out of it to be sure they don't disappear).

In terms of the upgrades, if you can sit with the system (they'll get it done when you bring it in), you could leave them in. But there's some horror stories here in MR that a system had to be sent in, or sat in the Apple store for some time, and the upgrades disappeared when the machine had to be replaced (they don't inventory and swap upgrades over - this is in the fine print somewhere IIRC). So it's definitely in your best interest to call first, and it may mean you'll have to remove all the upgrades (RAID, CPU's, ...) and get it back to what Apple shipped.

 

[JollyJoeJoe]

I wasn't sure of which model you had, but figured it was a 2009 (possibly with a firmware flash for running B1 stepped parts).


I recalled the lapping, just not the exact CPU's or if it was a 2009 or 2010.

There's a difference between the fastest DP CPU Apple uses X5670 (2.93GHz) and the X5690 (95W and 130W respectively). But showing the difference with the existing CPU's should be enough to prove the case from a technical POV (shows that they're off by quite a bit of one another). BTW, the coolers are meant to run under varied conditions, so they're usually over-designed = will handle more than they're rated for; this is particularly the case for those used with enterprise grade CPU's).

Unfortunately, like you, I don't think they'd acknowledge that fact due to the upgraded CPU's. But maybe you'll get lucky and either Apple will ship you the part, or the Genius won't pay attention.

As per shipping you the part, it seems this has been done for some. But the usual way they do business is to have the owner bring in the system. The difference may have to do with your distance from the closest Apple Store.

Worth a shot IMO, so I'd give it a try first (much easier than pulling all the upgrades out of it to be sure they don't disappear).

In terms of the upgrades, if you can sit with the system (they'll get it done when you bring it in), you could leave them in. But there's some horror stories here in MR that a system had to be sent in, or sat in the Apple store for some time, and the upgrades disappeared when the machine had to be replaced (they don't inventory and swap upgrades over - this is in the fine print somewhere IIRC). So it's definitely in your best interest to call first, and it may mean you'll have to remove all the upgrades (RAID, CPU's, ...) and get it back to what Apple shipped.

Hell no, I am not shipping the whole system just because of a dodgy heatsink. If I can bring it in to a local store without stripping upgrades that would be fine. Otherwise if having to strip all upgrades the heatsink is not worth the time and effor. Better just buy a new one of these overprices POS for $216 and hope it does better and sell existing one on Ebay as it would do the job fine on anything up to X5670.

 

[nanofrog]

Hell no, I am not shipping the whole system just because of a dodgy heatsink. If I can bring it in to a local store without stripping upgrades that would be fine. Otherwise if having to strip all upgrades the heatsink is not worth the time and effort. Better just buy a new one of these overprices POS for $216 and hope it does better and sell existing one on Ebay as it would do the job fine on anything up to X5670.

I don't blame you.

I'd attempt to see if they'd ship one to you, and the Apple Store at most if they refuse as a means of getting Apple Care to cover it (assuming it's within a reasonable distance to do so).

All else fails (neither of the above works out), then pay the $216 out of pocket as you value your time more than that amount.