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compuwar

macrumors 601
Oct 5, 2006
4,717
2
Northern/Central VA
As long as Nikon sticks with te 1.5x and lower iso range they will lag behind. Didn't everyone see the stats about a week ago?

If you've been paying attention, you'll see that Nikon's been doing a lot to increase their ISO performance, even at the low end consumer DSLR segment. There's nothing to indicate their next pro body won't nail it, and strong rumor says they have done so even in the D3H prototypes that are floating around.

It's also been rumored that the D3H will be full-frame, but we'll have to wait utnil sometime during the summer to know for sure, I suspect.

Canon is ruling the market at the moment. There was an ad in a recent magazine, Time I think pointing out that 95 percent of all images shot at the super bowl (tv and still) were Canon. This is a great model that bridges the

Canon's owned the media market ever since they started giving media companies incredible deals on their camera systems that Nikon simply couldn't compete with several years ago. Coupled with their high-ISO performance, it made good sense, and still makes good business sense.

Nikon's been picking up market share at the new low-end part of the segment, but as long as the market continues to grow, both companies stand to do well, which is the best thing overall for photographers.

gap between the needs of a news shooter with someone who needs more of a full frame rig. That's me to a tee. I shoot news for all types of print publication and web use. Sometimes the photos show up in a newsprint publications sometimes they are full bleed magazine covers. So I have to fractal what I shoot now. This camera would fill both needs nicely.

I'd wait until they're out and see how they perform, shutter lag is 55ms on the Canon, if the D3H is indeed full frame and matches the increased resolution and keeps the current shutter lag, the competition should make the next round of bodies phenomenal.

I hope the silent mode is a trend! That rocks.
 

robbieduncan

Moderator emeritus
Jul 24, 2002
25,611
893
Harrogate
How does the live view mode work?

Is AF disabled/impossible during live view?

What's the point of live view on a camera like this?

Read the white paper. Basically the mirror is flipped up and the CMOS runs live. It's Manual Focus only. The purpose is to enable you to see what's going in when you can't get to the viewfinder. Very cool when used remotely!
 

Mantat

macrumors 6502a
Sep 19, 2003
619
0
Montréal (Canada)
How does the live view mode work?

Is AF disabled/impossible during live view?

What's the point of live view on a camera like this?

I asked myself the same question... But the 5x and 10x zoom feature is even weirder... Its a good idea for portrait or landscape, but not for fast moving subjects... weird and I hope we can reprogram these buttons to do something else.

I cant wait to see independant review of the IQ of the shots at high ISO.
 

failsafe1

macrumors 6502a
Jul 21, 2003
621
1
If you've been paying attention, you'll see that Nikon's been doing a lot to increase their ISO performance, even at the low end consumer DSLR segment. There's nothing to indicate their next pro body won't nail it, and strong rumor says they have done so even in the D3H prototypes that are floating around.


After your note I saw where Nikon was increasing the high end iso but not the low end. It looks like they are trying to decrease noise so it should be interesting. Competition is a great thing. I use both systems so a new Nikon body at the office would be nice. I could not find anything on the new rumored Nikon body would be full frame. I really like the low iso's so having a setting of 50 is very appealing.
 

failsafe1

macrumors 6502a
Jul 21, 2003
621
1
I asked myself the same question... But the 5x and 10x zoom feature is even weirder... Its a good idea for portrait or landscape, but not for fast moving subjects... weird and I hope we can reprogram these buttons to do something else.

I cant wait to see independant review of the IQ of the shots at high ISO.

Looks like the live preview is a studio benefit or architectural feature? Looking at the specs on the Canon site manual focus seems to be the order of the day with live preview. I could see this as a help with critical studio setups?
 

compuwar

macrumors 601
Oct 5, 2006
4,717
2
Northern/Central VA
After your note I saw where Nikon was increasing the high end iso but not the low end. It looks like they are trying to decrease noise so it should be interesting. Competition is a great thing. I use both systems so a new Nikon body at the office would be nice. I could not find anything on the new rumored Nikon body would be full frame. I really like the low iso's so having a setting of 50 is very appealing.

Thom Hogan's been dropping the most unsubtle hints on the planet (Like "Expect something very big from Nikon...did I say big?", and apparently has 2 or 3 sources he trusts feeding him the tidbits. DX works fine for me, but I'm interested in anything that pushes the dynamic range and tonal range.

At this point, it's all still strong speculation, but Thom isn't often wrong.

I asked myself the same question... But the 5x and 10x zoom feature is even weirder... Its a good idea for portrait or landscape, but not for fast moving subjects... weird and I hope we can reprogram these buttons to do something else.

I cant wait to see independant review of the IQ of the shots at high ISO.

I think it's useful for folks doing the "over everyone's head" breaking news shots, but the ability to check and nail things if you're shooting sports from the side is interesting too. Heck, it might even be useful for macro.

I've been contemplating one of the camera hooked to the viewfinder LCD systems, and if I shot more, I'd likely get one.
 

Abstract

macrumors Penryn
Dec 27, 2002
24,869
901
Location Location Location
Ignoring the potential fanroo stuff, why would it make Nikon quake? D2HS shooters aren't likely to flock in droves at this point, since a rumored D3H is likely not too far away.

I don't think that Nikon's D3H will keep up with Canon. Since Canon let their cat out of the bag first, I think Nikon realized that the D3H isn't enough. The D2Hs can do what.....8 fps at something like 4 MP? Even if Nikon offers an 8 MP camera that shoots at 8 fps, it's still lagging. The D2Xs can shoot at 8 fps, but again with a crop, where it's only shooting photos at 5 or 6 MP at that speed.

I do think that better timing and technique helps tremendously, and that 10 fps isn't really that much better than 8 fps (it's all adequate), but some people are going to want it just to have it --- just to say "I can shoot at 10 fps".
 

compuwar

macrumors 601
Oct 5, 2006
4,717
2
Northern/Central VA
I don't think that Nikon's D3H will keep up with Canon. Since Canon let their cat out of the bag first, I think Nikon realized that the D3H isn't enough.

I have no idea what logic you're using here, but Nikon hasn't been sceduled to release the D3H until summer- all accounts are that it's on track and will likely match the Canon body performance-wise. What leap of logic brings you to "Nikon realized" for a body they're still working on that's on schedule?

See, if you're not a fanboy, or you don't have very, very specific requirements, even if it *didn't* have "better" stats it wouldn't matter- the D3H pretty-much has to replace the D2H and make D2H shooters happy to upgrade. That's its primary market. Even if the D3H edges out the mkIII in stats *that* doesn't matter either, it just had to satisfy folks upgrading from the earlier Canon body.

By all reports and a careful analysis of the specs, the MkIII handily met that goal- including taking some things that have traditionally been only on Nikon bodies like an independent AF button. That's good- it means Canon's listening to their customers and providing them with a tool that meets their needs and adds all the features that that class of customer wants.

The D2Hs can do what.....8 fps at something like 4 MP? Even if Nikon offers an 8 MP camera that shoots at 8 fps, it's still lagging. The D2Xs can shoot at 8 fps, but again with a crop, where it's only shooting photos at 5 or 6 MP at that speed.

Don't give in to the megapixel myth. More megapixels aren't always better, since they tend to introduce diffraction issues once the photosites get small enough. The D2x has been shooting 6MP at 8FPS in high-speed crop mode for two years in the hands of customers as of tomorrow. Those 6MP prints will do full-bleed images just fine- and at the correct viewing distance they'll do straight 11x14s with aplomb. What exactly would more megapixels bring to the table besides the ability to crop the crop and diffraction at a larger aperture? While HSC mode was heralded by half the camera media and all the Nikon fanboys as delivering "two cameras in one" or "a free D2H with a high megapixel body," the D2H crowd really hasn't budged- it's not the right tool for that job (it's not a bad tool for that job, but it's not the right one.)

The D2H was released in what? November of 2003? I'm hardly impressed that it's taken either manufacturer this long to up the ante, but I am impressed that both of them took their time to do so- hopefully that means we'll all benefit more than if they'd rushed it.

The fact that you can up-res a 2H shot and deliver a full bleed cover when it's got 1/3 the resolution of the D2x says a lot about how well done that body/sensor combination was. That's a positive thing because neither Nikon nor Canon need to shorten their pro body R&D cycles down to the P&S level, we'd all just lose out on reliability and interesting/useful improvements versus gimicks.

I do think that better timing and technique helps tremendously, and that 10 fps isn't really that much better than 8 fps (it's all adequate), but some people are going to want it just to have it --- just to say "I can shoot at 10 fps".

Sure, but they're the folks you'll see on DPReview switching from Nikon to Canon every year or so and complaining bitterly about both at some point- if not the same time.

failsafe1 said:
After your note I saw where Nikon was increasing the high end iso but not the low end. It looks like they are trying to decrease noise so it should be interesting. Competition is a great thing. I use both systems so a new Nikon body at the office would be nice. I could not find anything on the new rumored Nikon body would be full frame. I really like the low iso's so having a setting of 50 is very appealing.

Low ISOs aren't easy on digital sensors, artificially damping the signal that much just sort of kills the images- I'll have to see if I can dig up the articles I've seen about it. The natural ISO of most of Nikon's sensors (and I don't think Canon's are too different, but I'd appreciate data if it is) is about ISO200. You're better off throwing an ND filter in front of the lens than trying to let the electronics deal with the shift in range. What pisses me off the most is not being able to find any ND drop-ins for my 400/2.8, and ND grads are completely out of the question. A Cokin holder and 2-3 Lee filters should give you the same basic effect (I've heard the Cokin filters aren't true neutral and cast to magenta.)
 

Abstract

macrumors Penryn
Dec 27, 2002
24,869
901
Location Location Location
I have no idea what logic you're using here, but Nikon hasn't been sceduled to release the D3H until summer- all accounts are that it's on track and will likely match the Canon body performance-wise. What leap of logic brings you to "Nikon realized" for a body they're still working on that's on schedule?

Well, I have never really thought Nikon's D2Xs or D2H were on par with Nikon's pro offerings. Sure, I like my Nikon body, but I'm one of those people who doesn't think it matters very much. But I can understand that from a pro's perspective, some things like shooting at 8 or 10 fps at the highest level of JPEG quality matters (along with shooting RAW). It's not quite a myth. If you don't need the MP, then you don't need it. If you DO have it, then great. People would rather have more pixels if the photo quality can be maintained. You can add some pretty nice features to the D2H right now, but if the camera was still shooting at 4 MP, you don't think that pros that use Nikon cameras would be disappointed? What if Nikon only managed to offer a 5 MP D3H?

Now, I know that Nikon is going to offer more than this, judging from what I've read. Or maybe it's hype. I don't know.

I'm sure that one day, we'll be playing around with our 16 MP Nikons and thinking about how much better it is than having 4 MP.
 
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