Carbon Cloner + Time Machine + APFS how to

[patent10021]

:: Renamed thread title to help others


I have a 2TB external USB HD that I used a while ago for CCC. On that same drive I added some additional private files to back them up after the fact. Files unrelated to CCC.

Now I want to backup again to the same HD using CCC. Do I turn on SafetyNet? I think it doesn't matter since those files are unrelated to CCC's previous backup right?

I started CCC with SafetyNet Off and it was doing its thing and my files were still ok. But then I realized hmmm, as this progresses it might delete my private files so I better stop and confirm. So here I am.

Naturally, I read this link, but I'm not sure if it matches my situation. Seems like I should select "Don't Delete Anything", but I don't want the previous CCC backup taking up space on the HD. I want a new clone while keeping my manually added files safe.

What should I select?
SafetyNet On
SafetyNet Off
Don't Delete Anything

 

[Boyd01]

My understanding is that if you turn safety net off then the clone disk will exactly match the source and anything else will be deleted. But, honestly I'm not 100% sure of your situation because my backup disks are used solely for backups. IMO, it's a very bad idea to store other files on a backup disk.

Since this is an important issue for you, why not just shoot a quick e-mail to CCC support? That way you'll get a definitive answer you can trust.

 

[patent10021]

My understanding is that if you turn safety net off then the clone disk will exactly match the source and anything else will be deleted. But, honestly I'm not 100% sure of your situation because my backup disks are used solely for backups. IMO, it's a very bad idea to store other files on a backup disk.

Since this is an important issue for you, why not just shoot a quick e-mail to CCC support? That way you'll get a definitive answer you can trust.

Yup thanks. Was just asking here because it's not life or death. I have redundant backups, but would rather save time. I'll go ahead and report back lol

 

[Apple_Robert]

The new backup plan won't affect your older backups with CCC. Whatever you want to do with SafetyNet is fine. I prefer to keep it turned on.

 

[BrianBaughn]

I keep it turned on but clean out older folders in the "_CCC SafetyNet" folder every once in a while.

 

[Fishrrman]

I ALWAYS leave "Safety Net" OFF.

I want the "cloned backup" to be exactly that -- a "clone" of the source drive, and nothing more.

Been doing things like this many years, works for me.

 

[planteater]

If I understand your question correctly, you have a backup disk to which you use CCC to backup your machine. On the same backup disk, you would like to store private files that are not backed up as part of the CCC plan. You want the private files and the CCC backup to co-exist, one not harming the other.

If that is correct, then you need to enable the setting "Protect root-level items on the destination". That setting is located under Advanced Settings, for your backup job.

By enabling that, CCC will clone your machine to your destination disk, but if there are other folders on the destination that are not part of the CCC backup, they will not be affected.

 

[patent10021]

If I understand your question correctly, you have a backup disk to which you use CCC to backup your machine. On the same backup disk, you would like to store private files that are not backed up as part of the CCC plan. You want the private files and the CCC backup to co-exist, one not harming the other.

Ok, will try it. So SafetyNet is irrelevant if I select this? If I don't want dupes of stuff then just select SafetyNet Off plus check the box right?

Thanks

 

[planteater]

Ok, will try it. So SafetyNet is irrelevant if I select this? If I don't want dupes of stuff then just select SafetyNet Off plus check the box right?

Thanks

Safetynet and protect root-level items are independent of each other.

Safetynet is a means to keeps copies of files that change within the backup plan, through each run. Whereas protect root-level items, keeps files on the destination that are not within the plan safe.

An example how I use protect root-level items. I have a 2015 MBP. I use a CCC plan to backup the contents of its internal SSD to an external drive. I also have a 512 GB SD card, and I manually copy some of its contents to the same external disk. For that I create one folder on the external disk called _Protected. The name does not matter, that’s just what I call it.

My folder is safe as long as the setting protect root-level items is on. If that setting is turned off, CCC will delete my folder the next time the plan runs.

 

[patent10021]

Safetynet and protect root-level items are independent of each other.

Safetynet is a means to keeps copies of files that change within the backup plan, through each run. Whereas protect root-level items, keeps files on the destination that are not within the plan safe.

An example how I use protect root-level items. I have a 2015 MBP. I use a CCC plan to backup the contents of its internal SSD to an external drive. I also have a 512 GB SD card, and I manually copy some of its contents to the same external disk. For that I create one folder on the external disk called _Protected. The name does not matter, that’s just what I call it.

My folder is safe as long as the setting protect root-level items is on. If that setting is turned off, CCC will delete my folder the next time the plan runs.

Yeah so whatever data is (not) part of the data being cloned, is safe as long as the Protect Root-level Items option is checked. Does the non-related data need to be in its own folder? Mine is in its own folder, but I'm just curious.

The BigDataBackup folder is my manually added stuff. The other files are from CCC. That's ok? And with CCC we don't need to actually select that folder like TimeMachine asks you to do since CCC already knows to leave it alone.

 

[patent10021]

Read this too.

If your Mac is running Big Sur, yes. As of macOS Big Sur, we're required to use Apple's APFS replicator to establish a bootable clone of an APFS volume group. We're unable to leverage the SafetyNet feature, and it's no longer appropriate to store other data on the backup volume. You must dedicate a volume to your bootable backup. Once your bootable backup is established, CCC will use its own file copier to update the destination Data volume in subsequent backup tasks.

I want my clone to be bootable therefore with Big Sur we can no longer have extraneous data on the same drive.

That's easy because with Disk Utility and APFS you can split your HD without partitioning. The volume sizes get adjusted as needed on the fly. So I have a "CCC Backup" volume and a "Other Data" volume. Whatever amount CCC needs its volume will use that and the other volume can use what's left. Very nice!

 

[BrianBaughn]

You can have a clean CCC clone (no Safetynet) on one volume and set up a second, non-bootable CCC clone, folder to folder if you like, on another volume for selected data folders. In this way, you can maintain historical backups of your files without Safetynet throwing a bunch of system stuff in the Safetynet folder.

 

[patent10021]

I have two volumes on my 2TB HDD. Namely, "CCC Back Up" and "Extra Space"

It seems Time Machine will not let me backup to that other volume called "Extra Space". Is that because the same HDD is also being used by the "CCC Back Up" volume? They are both APFS.

Or maybe unrelated issue/setting. Maybe cause I didn't initialize it as a Time Machine disk from the start.

 

[planteater]

Yeah so whatever data is (not) part of the data being cloned, is safe as long as the Protect Root-level Items option is checked. Does the non-related data need to be in its own folder? Mine is in its own folder, but I'm just curious.

The BigDataBackup folder is my manually added stuff. The other files are from CCC. That's ok? And with CCC we don't need to actually select that folder like TimeMachine asks you to do since CCC already knows to leave it alone.

Yes, that is correct. Any file or folder not part of the CCC backup is safe. I also just put my extra files in a single folder, it seems more organized and identifiable that way.

 

[ignatius345]

I leave it on, but I have always found it fails to prune enough space correctly before a new backup, even though I have that set to happen. More times than not, I've wound up clearing the SafetyNet folder out myself in order to make enough space for a new clone.

 

[Blowback]

Read this too.


I want my clone to be bootable therefore with Big Sur we can no longer have extraneous data on the same drive.

That's easy because with Disk Utility and APFS you can split your HD without partitioning. The volume sizes get adjusted as needed on the fly. So I have a "CCC Backup" volume and a "Other Data" volume. Whatever amount CCC needs its volume will use that and the other volume can use what's left. Very nice!

"I want my clone to be bootable therefore with Big Sur we can no longer have extraneous data on the same drive."
Me also. I leave it 'off'. But, per the above statement, are you saying that Safety Net precludes the making of bootable clones using CCC? Just asking for my on info as I don't remember reading this anywhere. Though I may have and just forgotten. Thanks...

 

[patent10021]

"I want my clone to be bootable therefore with Big Sur we can no longer have extraneous data on the same drive."
Me also. I leave it 'off'. But, per the above statement, are you saying that Safety Net precludes the making of bootable clones using CCC? Just asking for my on info as I don't remember reading this anywhere. Though I may have and just forgotten. Thanks...

I don't think SafetyNet has any relevance to whether or not you want bootable or not. More info here.



What I'm now trying to figure out is why Time Machine does not let me choose one of those APFS volumes I created using Disk Utility.

Apple started shifting Macs from its old HFS+ filesystem to its more sophisticated APFS format with macOS 10.13 High Sierra ...snip... But it took a full three releases from the first APFS appearance until Time Machine backups could be written to drives formatted with APFS: macOS 11.0 Big Sur is the first release to allow that.

Upgraded to Big Sur (gorgeous by the way), but Time Machine STILL would not let me use those APFS volumes as Time Machine backups.

Discovered by experimenting that those APFS volumes need to actually be created with Disk Utility for Big Sur. At least for me, creating APFS volumes with Catalina Disk Utility then upgrading to Big Sur didn't work.

So on my 2TB HDD I created a volume called "CCC Backup" and a volume called "Time Machine". Time Machine Big Sur gives me the option to use any APFS volume now.

 

[Blowback]

I don't think SafetyNet has any relevance to whether or not you want bootable or not. More info here.



What I'm now trying to figure out is why Time Machine does not let me choose one of those APFS volumes I created using Disk Utility.



Upgraded to Big Sur (gorgeous by the way), but Time Machine STILL would not let me use those APFS volumes as Time Machine backups.

Discovered by experimenting that those APFS volumes need to actually be created with Disk Utility for Big Sur. At least for me, creating APFS volumes with Catalina Disk Utility then upgrading to Big Sur didn't work.

So on my 2TB HDD I created a volume called "CCC Backup" and a volume called "Time Machine". Time Machine Big Sur gives me the option to use any APFS volume now.

Not sure (memory ) but isn't there an issue with TimeMachine-->APFS--> 'Spinning Disc' Hard Drives??? Thought when all of this started that was the case?

 

[patent10021]

Not sure (memory ) but isn't there an issue with TimeMachine-->APFS--> 'Spinning Disc' Hard Drives??? Thought when all of this started that was the case?

Not for me. That was probably back when Time Machine on Big Sur wasn't ready for APFS. It's seamless. Not having to create partitions and to be able to safely use CCC and TM on the same HDD using separate volumes is really slick.

 

[patent10021]

So I just found out about Arq and bought the promo. $39 for a year/1TB. My machine is always less than 1TB so it's perfect. I've always wanted a cheap and easy cloud solution and until now wasn't satisfied with available offerings.

Arq + CCC or TM should be peace of mind.

Anyone have any recommendations as to whether I should use CCC or TM with Arq? On another thread people were debating whether to ditch TM or CCC.

 

[Blowback]

So I just found out about Arq and bought the promo. $39 for a year/1TB. My machine is always less than 1TB so it's perfect. I've always wanted a cheap and easy cloud solution and until now wasn't satisfied with available offerings.

Arq + CCC or TM should be peace of mind.

Anyone have any recommendations as to whether I should use CCC or TM with Arq? On another thread people were debating whether to ditch TM or CCC.

Don't know anything about 'Arq' but would say that since you already have both TM and CCC use them both as CCC gives you a 'bootable' clone whereas TM doesn't. Also, 2 different solutions are better than 2 of the same or just a single. Just my 2 cents....also, you have iCloud of some gb available for off-site storage of most important data?

 

[patent10021]

Don't know anything about 'Arq' but would say that since you already have both TM and CCC use them both as CCC gives you a 'bootable' clone whereas TM doesn't. Also, 2 different solutions are better than 2 of the same or just a single. Just my 2 cents....also, you have iCloud of some gb available for off-site storage of most important data?

From what I've been reading, CCC does everything TM does and more and many users are going with one cloud solution like Arq + CCC.

Honest question since I'm not a pro backup user. Why use TM if CCC does what TM does plus more?

 

[Nacho Varga]

I ALWAYS leave "Safety Net" OFF.

I want the "cloned backup" to be exactly that -- a "clone" of the source drive, and nothing more.

Been doing things like this many years, works for me.

Same with me and my SuperDuper! backups for both of my Macs. Just wish SuperDuper! had a version that works directly with Big Sur. Am really going to miss SD when I move to Big Sur, as I will need to switch to CCC (both of my Macs are Intel-based, and CCC works like normal with Intel-based Macs and Big Sur).

 

[Blowback]

From what I've been reading, CCC does everything TM does and more and many users are going with one cloud solution like Arq + CCC.

Honest question since I'm not a pro backup user. Why use TM if CCC does what TM does plus more?

CCC gives you a 'Bootable' clone...TM is a back-up of your files. Two different things....also, CCC gives you an 'exact copy ' of 'Now'...I don't think TM copies everything ....or is 'bootable'...TM is for 'recovery' ...

 

[Nacho Varga]

Honest question since I'm not a pro backup user. Why use TM if CCC does what TM does plus more?

First, TM is free. Second, some folks just want to use Apple products.