not really it fit the narrative and context he framed his post that I responded to.....
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Chromebooks outsold Macs for the first time in the US
- Thread starter bobenhaus
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I don't own a Mac myself (my wife does) but even I can see that they cost generally 10 times the amount a Chromebook does. It doesn't take much initiative to realise the price point and different market approach of each product.
In the UK Chromebooks are common in schools as they get massive discounts where every child has access to an affordable computer. They are cheap and very popular at £149. I can't imagine the same scheme running for a MacBook that costs from £800-£2500, or even why that would be needed anyway. Horses for courses.
In the UK Chromebooks are common in schools as they get massive discounts where every child has access to an affordable computer. They are cheap and very popular at £149. I can't imagine the same scheme running for a MacBook that costs from £800-£2500, or even why that would be needed anyway. Horses for courses.
I don't dislike Chromebooks, in fact think they are pretty slick and found I can do much of my daily workflow on them. My biggest issue to date has been hardware quality. They're great for my kids though who have Google accounts sets up through their school and don't care about build or display quality like I do.
But with this announcement of availability of the Google Play Store and Android apps that appear to run well, I'd love an iPad Pro (the big one
) type device that ran Chrome--tablet with a keyboard attachment that's easily removed and unlike the Surface Book, doesn't contain the hardware guts. I would prefer the removable keyboard be like the Typepad for the Surface Pro 4 as I'd want a touchpad for Chrome OS use.
But with this announcement of availability of the Google Play Store and Android apps that appear to run well, I'd love an iPad Pro (the big one
) type device that ran Chrome--tablet with a keyboard attachment that's easily removed and unlike the Surface Book, doesn't contain the hardware guts. I would prefer the removable keyboard be like the Typepad for the Surface Pro 4 as I'd want a touchpad for Chrome OS use.The chromebooks are the best choice for the average consumer.
A MacBook is way too expensive for people who use their computer just for surfing, email and music/video. And chromebooks are idiot proof, all you need to know is your google account data and your done. You can log yourself into any existing chromebook all over the world and got your data.
I don't see a future for Apple in the education field, an iPad might be useful at kindergarten, but everywhere where you got much text work, a physical keyboard and mouse are still unbeaten.
Also Google cloud services will improve dramatically in future. Everything that needs heavy processor load will be done in the cloud, no stationary computer will be able to provide this process power.
Apple is still stuck in their own past, where Jobs saw anyone just as a consumer, not a creator. Just impressing some bloggers, journalists and Instagram hipsters might provide media appearances but is no lasting business model.
Google has understood early that the world is filled by people with low or midfield income and they are the market, whilst apples fanboys are just waiting for the next big thing, whoever offers it.
Apple unfortunately was innovative in hardware, but not really in software. That might break their neck soon, as hardware becomes obsolete when cloud services get alive.
I don't like Google because of selling personal data, but I have to admit that they got innovations and make those affordable for anyone. Apple just made a lot of money, but money can't buy visions.
A MacBook is way too expensive for people who use their computer just for surfing, email and music/video. And chromebooks are idiot proof, all you need to know is your google account data and your done. You can log yourself into any existing chromebook all over the world and got your data.
I don't see a future for Apple in the education field, an iPad might be useful at kindergarten, but everywhere where you got much text work, a physical keyboard and mouse are still unbeaten.
Also Google cloud services will improve dramatically in future. Everything that needs heavy processor load will be done in the cloud, no stationary computer will be able to provide this process power.
Apple is still stuck in their own past, where Jobs saw anyone just as a consumer, not a creator. Just impressing some bloggers, journalists and Instagram hipsters might provide media appearances but is no lasting business model.
Google has understood early that the world is filled by people with low or midfield income and they are the market, whilst apples fanboys are just waiting for the next big thing, whoever offers it.
Apple unfortunately was innovative in hardware, but not really in software. That might break their neck soon, as hardware becomes obsolete when cloud services get alive.
I don't like Google because of selling personal data, but I have to admit that they got innovations and make those affordable for anyone. Apple just made a lot of money, but money can't buy visions.
Interesting turn of events....Apple seems to agree that laptops are a better fit in the classroom than iPads.
They offer to replace ipads with Mabooks for Maine Department of Education! What a price difference! I think they are feeling the heat from Chromebook sales to the education sector.
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...h-macbooks-in-maine-state-classrooms.1973945/
They offer to replace ipads with Mabooks for Maine Department of Education! What a price difference! I think they are feeling the heat from Chromebook sales to the education sector.
https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...h-macbooks-in-maine-state-classrooms.1973945/
I'd agree — if Chrome OS could do more, we may have considered it more seriously. For us, we want our students creating content — and not just papers and presentations, but also multimedia. From what we could see, Chrome OS was incapable of doing multimedia without us purchasing additional subscriptions. With the iPad that's all included, and the price is about the same as a good Chromebook. So when you total up the cost, including extra cloud subscriptions, the Chromebooks came out to be more. I would have loved to test one out, but we had a lot of trouble getting a vendor to send us a test unit — Apple sent out 5 iPads within a day of me asking. (Prior to iPads this year, we had 1:1 MacBook Airs.) And considering that iPad 2 still goes for $100-150, I have no doubt that we'll be able to resell our iPad Airs after 3-4 years. (What could you sell a 3-4 year old Chromebook for?)
Ultimately I like the idea of Chromebooks. But for us it didn't seem to be a worthwhile investment this time. I agree the management is easier, and if Google can bake in more out-of-the-box functionality I think it will be a viable option for our next refresh cycle. And certainly both Chromebook and iPad are much easier than Macs in this scenario — if only because there's no single user mode, no wiping out the OS and installing again, no installing another OS alongside, etc.
I can see where one might think that, but what I think is more likely is exactly what it says in the article: the teachers and IT personnel weren't trained properly and Apple wanted to shut them up. There are certainly HUGE differences managing iPads vs. managing Macs. But had that IT department properly locked down the iPads, they wouldn't have become distractions in class. You don't HAVE to give kids access to the App Store... especially not now with iOS 9.3. Just like you don't HAVE to give kids admin accounts on Macs. It's pretty difficult to break past those restrictions — if you install the configuration profile from your MDM, disable the ability to uninstall the profile, participate in DEP, and block the App Store, you have a locked-down iPad that can't be used for games and etc. If the student is smart enough to put it into DFU mode and restore iOS clean, an iPad properly enrolled in DEP and MDM will simply download the same restricted profile again and they'll be back at square 1 (and for bonus points, if your MDM server isn't reachable on the Internet, the iPad will be stuck in Setup Assistant until it can talk to your server).
That being said, judging from that pricing they were probably into a higher-end iPad model. And if you're going to pay for a high-end iPad, you might as well get an 11" MacBook Air or save some cash and get Chromebooks.
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That's cause in my experience, iPad is poorly suited to do real work. Typing alone ... ugh!
I can't imagine having to type a serious paper or take notes...
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IMHO it is not the lack of training......as much a ease of support. It is much easier to support chromebooks in the enterprise than iPads. Chromebooks store everything in the cloud. Need to replace an chromebook...just replace it........no user data is lost no importing user settings. iPads not so simple to replace and get the user data back.
Unless you are in a regulated industry and have to worry about what is in the cloud.
A $200 Chromebook has a better display than the $1000 Macbook Air.
Why? I work for a regulated financial company and we have several services that store data in the cloud.
Then Apple isn't losing sales to chrome books in regulated industry. But losing it big time in the education market space.
Apple can't compete with this, they would have to give away their products for the same price.
With full Android Apps being able to run on Chromebooks later in the fall, it's becoming more of a viable solution for casual computing.
They are giving it away....
They offer to replace ipads with Mabooks for Maine Department of Education! What a price difference! They are feeling the heat from Chromebook sales to the education sector.
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads...h-macbooks-in-maine-state-classrooms.1973945/
I mean I get your point and I do agree to an extent, but I feel I should point out that user data on iPad is largely in the cloud. This year if a student didn't have an iCloud backup (most did since they're automatic) and I had to replace their device, they were delighted to find that all their iWork data was in iCloud. Ditto for PDFs in the Adobe app. And ditto for Google Drive/Docs/Slides/Sheets. The only thing they might've lost is photos / videos / settings / extra apps, but iWork + Adobe + Drive cover 90% of their classwork. Even bigger bonus? They could log in to the cloud services from a classroom MacBook in the meantime to get to all their stuff if they had to wait a few days for their replacement iPad.
Now that said, using the Google Apps Admin Console to manage Chromebooks is 100x easier than using any MDM solution. And yes, I get it, all Chromebook data goes into Google Drive and therefore could be grabbed from any device / platform too. Chromebook definitely wins in the "easy" category. But it definitely doesn't in the "included functionality" category. I think for a vast majority of K12 students, iPad offers more than Chromebook (anything Chromebook can do, iPad can do and then some*... for now... and even then I question the usability and quality of Play Store apps running on a laptop form factor).
*Except Flash, I know, shut up that's totally not important.
iPad tends to lack in a few key and critical areas. Like say;I think for a vast majority of K12 students, iPad offers more than Chromebook (anything Chromebook can do, iPad can do and then some*
*Except Flash, I know, shut up that's totally not important.
Use a mouse? Add a USB thumb drive or SD card for large projects that would take forever to upload or download? Restore to like new in under 2 minutes? Not get bricked on updates? Allow for multiple users on one piece of hardware? Project to a big screen with just an HDMI cable? Allow for easy note taking in class? And of course, the price is 3x that of a Chromebook.
Now with the upcoming play store app support coming soon to many chromebooks, the chromebook may have the advantage in comparison to the iPad pro. At least, you have mouse support, chrome OS, and android apps...the combination if done correctly will be the perfect mix of a desktop OS with the advantage of mobile and tablet apps...... the new hybrid laptops and tablets will have chrome OS with native android app support this very year. Let's not forget that chrome OS supports external memory drives and other forms of memory as well.
Boom! Google just dropped a huge bomb. Chromebooks and Chrome OS just made a huge leap forward.
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/network-file-share-for-ch/ndjpildffkeodjdaeebdhnncfhopkajk
https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/network-file-share-for-ch/ndjpildffkeodjdaeebdhnncfhopkajk
Great points! Its funny we are a primarily Apple household. I mean there are ipads...MBPs...imac....Time Capsule...iphones all over the place. My 8 year old son grew up using a ipad mini.....he loves it! I bought him a HP chromebook and he is consumed with it. He finds using it to type and watch YT videos is so much easier for him anyway. Then the screen is bigger and it was about a third the price of his ipad.I mean I get your point and I do agree to an extent, but I feel I should point out that user data on iPad is largely in the cloud. This year if a student didn't have an iCloud backup (most did since they're automatic) and I had to replace their device, they were delighted to find that all their iWork data was in iCloud. Ditto for PDFs in the Adobe app. And ditto for Google Drive/Docs/Slides/Sheets. The only thing they might've lost is photos / videos / settings / extra apps, but iWork + Adobe + Drive cover 90% of their classwork. Even bigger bonus? They could log in to the cloud services from a classroom MacBook in the meantime to get to all their stuff if they had to wait a few days for their replacement iPad.
Now that said, using the Google Apps Admin Console to manage Chromebooks is 100x easier than using any MDM solution. And yes, I get it, all Chromebook data goes into Google Drive and therefore could be grabbed from any device / platform too. Chromebook definitely wins in the "easy" category. But it definitely doesn't in the "included functionality" category. I think for a vast majority of K12 students, iPad offers more than Chromebook (anything Chromebook can do, iPad can do and then some*... for now... and even then I question the usability and quality of Play Store apps running on a laptop form factor).
*Except Flash, I know, shut up that's totally not important.
I know a couple of professional writers who do all their writing on iPads / albeit with physical keyboards. 'real work' is applicable only to the individual. There are many folks including myself who do 'real work' with their iPads ....
I know a couple of professional writers who do all their writing on iPads / albeit with physical keyboards. 'real work' is applicable only to the individual. There are many folks including myself who do 'real work' with their iPads ....
Sure, with a keyboard, that changes everything. Do the schools that use iPads give keyboards to pair with each iPad, too? Just curious.
[doublepost=1464195624][/doublepost]I asked this question in the Google I/O thread, but might be better suited here:
Do Chrome OS laptops get viruses like Windows? Do I need to run virus scanners and software like I used to on Windows?
Or is Chrome OS anything like OSX, where I basically have to do nothing to defend against viruses other than the standard no-brainer stuff (like not giving permission to unknown installs, etc.)?
Because until it's exactly like OSX when it comes to viruses, I don't think I would dare move from OSX.
Mice are irrelevant with a touchscreen. The cloud and a good network connection negate the need for local storage. I can restore to like new in under 2 minutes (Profile Manager -> Device -> Wipe). We haven't gotten bricked on updates. iOS 9.3 allows for multiple users. Plugging in an HDMI cable is a little obsolete when you have AirPlay in the classroom. The Notes app makes it very easy to take notes in class, with or without a physical keyboard. And I'm not sure where you get 3x the price; we paid $379 per unit for our iPads — a quality Chromebook in the education market is about the same price, maybe a little cheaper, but certainly not 66% cheaper. Aside from that, consider that most schools lease their equipment for large 1:1 rollouts. It helps a LOT to have a product that retains its value. Apple products retain more value than any other vendor. At the end of our lease, I'll be able to sell our iPads and use that cash for a down payment on the next set of devices; people want to buy used iPads and Macs. Who wants a used 3-year-old Chromebook?
Not sure what I need external storage for if all my data is in either iCloud or Google Drive. Mouse support really doesn't matter. And I already have a desktop class browser with tablet apps alongside it with iPad. Not seeing any advantage to Chromebooks. (That said, iPad Pro 12" is a giant waste of money IMO.)
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Not saying Chromebook isn't a compelling product. Just saying it really doesn't offer any advantage over iPad yet. It will certainly be interesting to see how it continues to develop, but I'm not going to jump on the Chromebook in the Classroom bandwagon until it actually makes financial and functional sense and provides an advantage over other products.
We considered purchasing physical keyboards, but ultimately we did not. Our Apple rep said other schools that did buy the keyboards found that they mostly sat in a closet collecting dust. We do encourage parents to purchase keyboards for their students if they want — we just finished year 1 with iPad, and none have. Kids (and me too — I'm 24) can type just as well on a touchscreen as they can on a keyboard.
You can't get a virus on Chrome OS, because Chrome OS can't execute programs. Chrome OS is at the very core, anti-virus.
The only thing that can happen are webpage hijacks/redirects depending on the websites you visit. i.e. Porn sites. These are trivial on a Chromebook though and simply require you to close the browser.
OSX and Windows are both extremely vulnerable to viruses compared to Chrome OS.
You and the kids must just not be that good at typing on a regular keyboard
if these are air 1's (at that price I wager?) I shudder at the thought of multitasking between word and a couple of tabs in safari for research. What happens when the word processor refreshes from lack of ram? Must be saving to the cloud automatically frequently?
I'm quite shocked a chromebook would be near $370's for bulk edu buying. I thought it would be like $150 given googles typical strategies
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